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FINAL UPDATE - [PC] Upcoming OS and DirectX Support Changes

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  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    What's your situation right now @micky1p00? Tell me! You have to be pretty entitled to always want to bring everything back to you because you want something for your own self. I want something for myself too. However, I'm not thinking of only myself. You got your wish, because I agree with you that Neverwinter/StarTrek needs to be improved, but reality I think it's not the best time because it's quite rough right now for lots of people. This pandemic has impacted millions of people! 2023 is plenty of time for lots of people to adjust back.

    A compromise has to be made, rather than argument. Cryptic doesn't have the numbers. It's a poor excuse that Cryptic has the numbers. They don't know. It's a guess. I made my points very lucid and continuing to battle with me is not worth your time! It's Cryptic's decision and if they don't postpone the OS and Directx changes, then I think it's a poor decision. I'm typing this forum for a reason. I gave my reasons. This pandemic has impacted millions of people! It doesn't affect you and I, when this game runs for most people right now!


    Post edited by mwk on
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    Bring back to me? I didn't focus on myself here. The only person who has plethora of posts about themselves are you, what you do for work, what your boss does, what you do as a side hassle, and how your laptop was in the car, and how your nephew or so gave you another one, and then how you talked to someone who uses xp 64, which is really unrealistic...

    The only thing I've mentioned is that the game, not me, the game, needs to progress and be up to date with the competition or it wont have enough new players to sustain it and Devs to make new content.

    That is life. You are the only one demanding things just because of your selfish needs.

    Second, to say that Cryptic doesn't have the numbers is based on what? Based on what you are saying that it's a guess?
    It's trivial to check what OS and basic data you have, the game checks it anyway, your account guard checks it anyway and sends it to Cryptic. So how the hell you claim that you know the numbers better than the company who makes the software.... Hubris much?

    I have the same right to make my points as you are, regardless if you like it or not.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    And you continue...because you want something. What do you want?! It doesn't affect you and I, when this game runs for most people right now! You continue to battle with me! Cryptic automatically assumes by the specs of people. Do really think Cryptic spent the time for every person on this game on analysis?! NO! It's all assumption!

    Futhermore, I stated I might open up in November, however truly I'm struggling on my expenses to afford for something new like a computer. I'm being really careful on my expenses. You probably don't have to worry about any expenses, because you're fortunate. I'm not fortunate right now and adjusting back is really hard right now! I get that Neverwinter/StarTrek isn't life priority, but every one needs an escape from life. Also missing opportunities from the game itself.

    Postpone the Echoes Of Prophecy Part 2 until 2023 or close to 2023 and I'll be happy. Happy now?! I can live without this game, but it will be nice to have an escape from life still.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    And you continue...

    What spend time? It's the simplest graph..



    Just add actual numbers, and total revenue from those players. Simple as that, it's just a simple database report..

    The fact that you bring up yourself and some person you met and don't have any actual numbers doesn't mean Cryptic doesn't have or it's not trivial for them to check.
    It will take me minutes to write something that checks computer spec and sends it to a server, few more minutes to build a report.... It's trivial.
    Good chance that even using google analytics on the launcher (which is webview based) will give the numbers with 0 code involved.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    You keep that talk about you, your expanses, about me, and others. How about stop thinking about you or me, and think what's good for the game? And delaying content and game upgrades due to negligible number of people that can't buy anything in game anyway will be good for the game?

    Is that how a company should structure its business? What playerbase will be left if you delay content to 2023?
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    Why do you even persist? It doesn't affect you and I, when this game runs for most people right now! You want something and psychology tells me, because you attack for your needs against mine.

    It doesn't affect you and I, when this game runs for most people right now!
    It doesn't affect you and I, when this game runs for most people right now!
    It doesn't affect you and I, when this game runs for most people right now!

    How many times?!

    All I want is enough time for people to adjust, because many have been impacted by the pandemic. OK!
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    Repeating something incoherent in bold doesn't make it more coherent, it only makes you look unhinged.

    The game quality affects me, because that is what I see if I play it. Dev resources affect me because every minute a dev doesn't spend on backward compatibility is time spend on improvement and I want improvements and not a game that drops 20fps when you have UI on .
    And the game will run for most people in three months. That's the whole point.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    micky1p00 said:

    Repeating something incoherent in bold doesn't make it more coherent, it only makes you look unhinged.

    The game quality affects me, because that is what I see if I play it. Dev resources affect me because every minute a dev doesn't spend on backward compatibility is time spend on improvement and I want improvements and not a game that drops 20fps when you have UI on .
    And the game will run for most people in three months. That's the whole point.

    Now you're calling me mentally unbalanced; deranged. And you make the excuse that it isn't good enough for you. At least you admit it. UI is your excuse, which drops frames. Really?

    For some reason you appear to troll people here. I wish there was a block button on forums. Better yet any one that makes a forum, meaning the OP can block that someone from posting on their forum. If the possibly, I'll make another forum and simply block you from posting on it.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    mwk said:


    All I want is enough time for people to adjust, because many have been impacted by the pandemic. OK!

    Windows 10 was released 6 years ago. DirectX 11 about 12 years ago.
    Microsoft ended support for windows 7 already at January 14, 2020. Almost 2 years ago.

    That sort off gives the hint that things going to die soon...

    And worst case, someone will take a break from the game? Looks like some could use a break, it will do them only good.
    I can recommend some good books, or TV shows.

    Yes, it's unfortunate, and not the best timing, but the world must go on. Cryptic has the numbers and made their decision based on those. Trying to change that based on a single person plea to emotion is just not how competitive business should run. Making business decision by some unfounded requests by a single person, as loud as they may be is how you kill a product.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,208 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    It is not about you, me and other players. It is about Cryptic considers it is the best for them for whatever reason they see fit. They may be right and they may be wrong. In the end of the day, they are in charge and they consider it is the best for them. They may even think it is the best for most of us (arguable).
    The game does not show graphic good enough. It does not show its truth potential to optimize the hardware I am having.
    I do know that between my Win7 gaming laptop and my current hardware, the graphic difference was already day and night when I did the switch.
    Am I looking for graphic improvement after they drop Win7/DirectX 10? Yes.
    Am I looking for better performance after they drop Win7/Direct X 10? Yes.
    Will I get it? Probably not. At least, not immediately. However, I hope one day it will.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    mwk said:

    micky1p00 said:

    Repeating something incoherent in bold doesn't make it more coherent, it only makes you look unhinged.

    The game quality affects me, because that is what I see if I play it. Dev resources affect me because every minute a dev doesn't spend on backward compatibility is time spend on improvement and I want improvements and not a game that drops 20fps when you have UI on .
    And the game will run for most people in three months. That's the whole point.

    Now you're calling me mentally unbalanced; deranged. And you make the excuse that it isn't good enough for you. At least you admit it. UI is your excuse, which drops frames. Really?
    Does that look like a normal post to you?
    mwk said:

    Why do you even persist? It doesn't affect you and I, when this game runs for most people right now! You want something and psychology tells me, because you attack for your needs against mine.

    It doesn't affect you and I, when this game runs for most people right now!
    It doesn't affect you and I, when this game runs for most people right now!
    It doesn't affect you and I, when this game runs for most people right now!

    How many times?!

    All I want is enough time for people to adjust, because many have been impacted by the pandemic. OK!

    Copy paste the same sentence a few dozen times more and your argument will have to be true..
    BTW I didn't call you anything, I've said that posting like that makes you look like... It's a small but important difference.


    "And you make the excuse that it isn't good enough for you. At least you admit it. UI is your excuse, which drops frames. Really?"

    What exactly is your point? You asked how Dev time affects me, I've given you a simple example, you want more, login to the game or go to the bugs forum and read.. Dev time fixing those is better used that support the unsupported.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    You called me unhinged. @micky1p00

    I'll see how November opens up for me. Yet no reason to attack to me.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    No, I've said that posting like that makes you look like one. If you don't want to appear like that, don't post the copy paste repeat same sentence in bold posts. Problem solved.

    It doesn't support your point, and only devalues your argument by making it look....

    If that bothers you too much, I apologize, it was a side comment about how your posts look and what message it sends, just ignore it. I just thought you would like to avoid making that impression but at the end of the day, I don't really care, your posts, your impression.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    Honestly I need to get past this. Hopefully November will open up for me. Also be careful of your words. You literally looked like you insulted me. I'm just asking why attack me? At least Neverwinter and StarTrek Online runs for everyone. I don't mind you making the comment..."Oh this great blahs blahs and how it benefits you". Yet don't direct towards me or others against our arguments, because that's when everything gets toxic or looks toxic. Don't force me to attack you too, when it's directed towards my arguments. I never insulted you, yet simply calling me unhinged is too far! The pandemic has impacted lots of people. Please be respectful of other people!
    Post edited by mwk on
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User
    Look it's really simple, Cryptic took a look at how many people still use Windows 7 and decided that the time it takes to ensure that future patches will still work on that OS doesn't make enough money. For you and I, this is a GAME. For Cryptic, this is their JOB and how many people provide for their families. Does it make sense for someone to spend an 8 hour day making sure the game works on an ancient OS, when the company might make $20 off those players in that patch cycle. This disparity of time spent to income gain only gets wider and wider.

    @MWK you are basically demanding that a developer should waste their time so a very small portion of the player base that uses 10 year old technology and make the company very little in return.

    You ask for more time? They likely have been pushing back the plan to drop support due to the pandemic already, and here we are almost 2 years later. They can't just keep pushing it back.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    Stop mentioning me!

    FYI. Priorities are first! Since I'm not making much profit. What if a water heater breaks or something like that? It's priorities thinking like an adult that make me not able to afford something new like a computer at the moment right now. Once November comes around, I'll see how it opens up for me on my job situation that closed on me due to pandemic. I'm not making much at all on the side.
    Post edited by mwk on
  • caldochaud#4880 caldochaud Member Posts: 213 Arc User
    Question: Why do you suppose so many PC users world-wide are presently angry at Microsoft on account of the new Windows 11's mandatory hardware requirements?

    Answer: Because Windows 11 is literally forcing PC users to throw out perfectly good hardware and buy a new PC during the worst possible economically inopportune time in history.

    The reality is that everybody is experiencing severe financial hardships world-wide no thanks to the past 20 months of Covid lockdowns, lay-offs and job losses. Needless to say, a lot of people are rightfully telling Microsoft where to go and how to get there. Now, what about supposedly "free-to-play" MMOs?

    Regardless of whether the intentions of Perfect World and Cryptic Studios are good or not, these changes are in very poor taste because (exactly like Microsoft) you also are literally punishing your player-base and paying customers during the worst possible economically inopportune time in history. NOBODY in their right mind is in a position to run out and buy a brand new computer just to play an allegedly "free-to-play" MMO. You could not have picked a more worse time to spring this on all of us. It is extremely inconsiderate of you.

    From a business standpoint, it is also not going to serve the best interests of your bottom line because either you want your player-base to buy ZEN, or you want them to buy a brand new computer. Hence, by forcing your player-base to buy a brand new computer, that represents a significant loss of revenue in ZEN sales since all that money is going to be spent elsewhere for new hardware. I could be wrong, but I believe you did not think these changes well enough. You threw out the baby with the bathwater.

    In any case, I am absolutely in no position to be buying a brand new computer just to play this game.



    I guess this is goodbye.
    "Talent is a flame. Genius is a fire." - Sir Bernard Williams
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User

    Question: Why do you suppose so many PC users world-wide are presently angry at Microsoft on account of the new Windows 11's mandatory hardware requirements?

    Answer: Because Windows 11 is literally forcing PC users to throw out perfectly good hardware and buy a new PC during the worst possible economically inopportune time in history.

    The reality is that everybody is experiencing severe financial hardships world-wide no thanks to the past 20 months of Covid lockdowns, lay-offs and job losses. Needless to say, a lot of people are rightfully telling Microsoft where to go and how to get there. Now, what about supposedly "free-to-play" MMOs?

    Regardless of whether the intentions of Perfect World and Cryptic Studios are good or not, these changes are in very poor taste because (exactly like Microsoft) you also are literally punishing your player-base and paying customers during the worst possible economically inopportune time in history. NOBODY in their right mind is in a position to run out and buy a brand new computer just to play an allegedly "free-to-play" MMO. You could not have picked a more worse time to spring this on all of us. It is extremely inconsiderate of you.

    From a business standpoint, it is also not going to serve the best interests of your bottom line because either you want your player-base to buy ZEN, or you want them to buy a brand new computer. Hence, by forcing your player-base to buy a brand new computer, that represents a significant loss of revenue in ZEN sales since all that money is going to be spent elsewhere for new hardware. I could be wrong, but I believe you did not think these changes well enough. You threw out the baby with the bathwater.

    In any case, I am absolutely in no position to be buying a brand new computer just to play this game.



    I guess this is goodbye.

    No one is forcing anyone to use Windows 11. The game should run perfectly fine on Windows 8 and 10. Yes, those will eventually be put to the way side, but such is the march of technology, new and better things will always be made and tech that is 10 years old will just pale in comparison. Think about phones 10 years ago, most people were still avoiding that browser button for fear of insane phone charges, and those that did were facing slow page load times, and we were just starting to add GPS programs to phones. At this time Windows 7 was pretty new, you can't expect game developers to keep wasting resources on ancient OSs, especially with how the economy is. They've already held off for a year because of world events. You can't expect them to keep holding off.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,208 Arc User
    edited November 2021

    Question: Why do you suppose so many PC users world-wide are presently angry at Microsoft on account of the new Windows 11's mandatory hardware requirements?

    Answer: Because Windows 11 is literally forcing PC users to throw out perfectly good hardware and buy a new PC during the worst possible economically inopportune time in history.

    This announcement has nothing to do with Windows 11. DirectX 11 is not Windows 11.

    From the first post:

    What Operating System should I be upgrading to?

    After February 15, Windows 8 or 10 (64-bit) will be required. For the best play experience, we recommend Windows 10.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • yamioni#9870 yamioni Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    I see you all added a nag to the launcher today. Yeah, I know Windows 7 won't be supported come February. I don't need to be reminded of it every single time I run the launcher. Once per reboot is more than frequent enough. Fix it.
  • evilingeevilinge Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    Well i will have no Problem when the changes come , cause i have dualboot and can easily boot windows 10 but i really dont like windows 10 and i am still mainly using windows 7 so this news really make me sad.

    but what i dont understand about all this, thats all the fuzz about DirectX 11 ?
    cause DirectX 11 is available for Windows 7.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,208 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    evilinge said:

    Well i will have no Problem when the changes come , cause i have dualboot and can easily boot windows 10 but i really dont like windows 10 and i am still mainly using windows 7 so this news really make me sad.

    but what i dont understand about all this, thats all the fuzz about DirectX 11 ?
    cause DirectX 11 is available for Windows 7.

    Look at them separately. Cryptic does not want to support Windows 7 and does not want to support DirectX earlier than 11. As a developer (not for game), I hate Windows 7 because it does not have proper support of high resolution time. Yes, there is a way to jump the hops to emulate it. However, time to time, it does not give proper time especially for monotonic purpose, especially for faster hardware. A 'new' simple API call to resolve that was introduced after Windows 7. For gaming, there was properly something better available through different mean.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User


    Starting in November 2021, if you are running on Windows 7 or using a Video Card with a Direct3D Feature Level 10, you will be informed of the upcoming incompatibility via the launcher.

    I see you all added a nag to the launcher today. Yeah, I know Windows 7 won't be supported come February. I don't need to be reminded of it every single time I run the launcher. Once per reboot is more than frequent enough. Fix it.

    They kinda announced that they were going to do that for a while now. I personally would not want a game launcher to have access to check to see when my last system reboot was.
  • yamioni#9870 yamioni Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    They kinda announced that they were going to do that for a while now. I personally would not want a game launcher to have access to check to see when my last system reboot was.

    I'm not complaining about the reminder, I'm complaining about the frequency. And applications can easily create software cookies to track the last time a user was reminded of something. They don't need to know when the last reboot was, specifically, I'm just referencing that as the frequency I'd see as useful and necessary.
  • granducagranduca Member Posts: 1 New User
    > @"nicolya#6604" said:
    > The game is old, the players are not young either, many have old PCs with Windows 7 without the technical ability to install Windows 10/11. Stop destroying the already small community of Neverwinter. Moreover, DirectX 11 works great on Windows 7. Why do you need unhappy customers and leaving the game from 5 to 10% of players?
    > P.S. No other MMO RPGs end support for Windows 7. (World of Warcraft, The Elder Scrolls Online, EVE Online support Windows 7)...

    Totally agree with you! How can I now play Neverwinter on my not very powerful laptop? This decision of the developers is extremely frustrating...
  • shadower75shadower75 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    Hello everyone

    @nitocris83 & developers
    I am also addressing you

    I want to thank the developers and support team for the years they have given me in this game.
    These were unforgettable 7+ years, during which time much happened. People met, talked, many had personal stories. It was a really great time.

    Thanks to the entire team of the game for letting them experience these feelings and introducing me to many people, communication with many of whom went beyond the game.
    Unfortunately, the upcoming update on February 15, 2022 will prevent me from continuing on this path. And it's not even about the OS upgrade, but about the expected requirement for the DirectX hardware upgrade. Unfortunately, I cannot afford to buy new hardware that supports DirectX 11 or higher hardware.
    Therefore, I will be forced to leave the game.

    I know for sure that many players are unhappy with this decision, since many have old hardware installed. But the developers know better - they constantly monitor the project participants and want to make the project more functional.

    Thanks again to everyone for a wonderful time and I'm really sorry it ends like this. But I understand that progress is moving forward. I just can't keep up with him.
    Good luck to everyone and rich farm. Farewell.
  • nicolya#6604 nicolya Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    My home PC is powerful enough to run Windows 10/11. But in the summer I live in my country house, where I have an old PC with Pentium E5700, 4GB ddr2-800 and geforce gts 450 1GB. It is impossible to install Windows 10 on this PC, but with Windows 7 it works fine and DirectX 11 is supported there. In fact, if you stop supporting Windows 7 from February 15, 2022, then I and several of my friends will leave the game. Do you want this? You will get this.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User
    Everyone saying that they can't run Windows 10/11, what about Windows 8? You don't need to jump to the latest.
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