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Bard console vs bard pc...

vaultingfrog#2497 vaultingfrog Member Posts: 185 Arc User
edited September 2021 in Player Feedback (Xbox One)
So as many players have realized, there is a discrepancy between functionality of the new bard class between pc and console players.

Keep in mind, this isn't directed towards an individual nor is it ment to be a smear campaign against pc. It is simply my view on how there are fundamental differences in how a class can operate between platforms and in some cases, such as this class, where it's defining feature has been bypassed in the name of "ease of use" on one platform while the others have no such thing.

I am typing about the ability to macro the bard songs into single key presses which provide their full benefits instead of actually doing the full songs worth of key presses. This happens exclusive on pc.

I have looked at arguments for and against this exclusive "ease of use" ability pc has for the bard. I actually understand where people come from on the side that uses it. It makes it simple to play and reasonably effective in content. Not to mention that those with disabilities are better able to play due to less keystrokes. I don't really begrudge them for this.

HOWEVER... where is the equality for the console player? We are the ones who have to go through a series of button presses to get maximum benefits for those songs. We have no other recourse. Yet we have multitudes of players with various ailments or physical challenges like pc. Those of which aren't necessarily acknowledged by companies and fellow gamers.

As the pc player is able to directly bypass a core feature of this class and play songs without fail and to their full benefit, I ask why have the feature at all? As far as I can tell this only limits console players who are not able to bypass said core feature. Instead we have to take the time in order to play each note of the song and hope we don't mess up and have to start all over. This ends up killing allies or the bard itself. Moving and playing songs is rather difficult in combat on console. At least in my experience.

Should a class be so simplistic that there is no real effort put into playing it, not to me. But by the same token, a class shouldn't have such a high thumbskill gap that it is only truly effective in harder content by the less than 1% of the player base.

Again its just my view on how this class is working at the moment.

What I would ask is that if you continue to allow pc to bypass the need to fully play songs with multiple keystrokes and retain full benefit of said songs, you allow consoles to do the same.

Remove the requirement to not have a song in the quickly slot to have its full benefit. Allow each song to be slotted to an individual button to be played in a single press in performance mode. Thus we now have equality between pc and consoles.

Take this as you will. Not trying to hate but to bring forth a measure of equality between players.

Edit: spelling due to auto-correct idiocy.

Comments

  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    I totally agree - I'm absolutely cool with PC having keybinds but I believe consoles should at least have 3 songs slot-able to the main skill buttons.
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  • vaultingfrog#2497 vaultingfrog Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    Glad I have at least 1 supporter. And no that's not sarcasm.
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    pc players have had / use macros for plenty of stuff for plenty of classes for years


    unless they plan to introduce cross plat form pvp pve (which they are not) i dont see what the big deal is

    if they adjust to make it easier for console to play songs they would have to do so on pc and change the interface too

    The average pc casual user does not suddenly pick up the game and start programming macros..

    point in question do we see pc players complaining about those that can macro their bard on keyboard vs those that cant?

    Do we see console players complaining about those that can use an ad on keyboard vs a joystick to gain advantage and those that cant ? or those with a larger resolution screen etc or someone with a better video card with more frames vs a hamster ones or someone that has an "advantage cause of better internet " or plays pvp/ pve better cause they have better surround sound ....

    Where does it end .. graphics draw distance ?the pc player can also see further then console players therefore are also at an advantage due to this. Should graphics setting be lowered accross all plat forms so it is fair Lol ?etc etc

    There will never be true game parity between consoles to console vs Pc to pc ..period because of technical reasons i listed above and below that are beyond our control


    You are not asking for equality between players your are asking for equality /parity between different entertainment mediums with different hardware specs and inputs ..

    All console players have to input the same commands at the same speed with the same input "handicap " and are therefore "equal" players amongst themselves .

    The only inequality you might argue is in fact pc players not console players .in which some have keyboard macros programed and went thru the trouble ./. and some dont/ could not be bothered/ are too casual on their bard

    The basis for your whole argument assumes in part that every pc players is macroing their bard which is in fact false and that it is not "fair" to console players because you want equality amounts' players / platforms / those with disabilities

    No one said inputting songs for bard was easy/ optimal for any platform in its current unaltered state including myself .

    Devs bards build / concept : current song system is based on rewarding "better song play" with better benefits but does true performance translate truly to faster reflex keyboard / control style inputs .. i mean the game is not an orchestral simulator
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • vaultingfrog#2497 vaultingfrog Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    Perhaps you should read the pc feedback forums here... there is a thread there that complains about pc doing macros for the bard...

    Just saying, since you said you haven't heard or seen a pc person doing so...

    And quite honestly the fact of the matter is they completely bypass a core function of the bard. Be it 1% of the population of 99%. And they do this with impunity. Pc players HAVE made playing the bard easy as they have no measure of risk in playing the songs due to macros playing them for the player instead.

    Console does not have this.

    And tell me, if a console player was able to bypass all semblance of difficulty in playing a class by pressing 2 buttons yet pc was stuck having to go through whole routines of keystrokes and mouse clicks to do the same actions, you wouldn't have an issue with that? I know multitudes of pc players who would be beyond outraged at their exclusion on that kind of ease of use.

    I'd I ask for the removal of the macros? Clearly I didn't. What I did ask for however is to give console the same ease of use pc has. Where we don't have to break out thumbs to press combinations and hope we get it right and in time to be effective. Where a core function of a class which is clearly ignored on one platform but completely enforced on the other two. That sir, or lady, is an inequality that needs to be addressed.
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    lol so all players on pc that play a bard use macros then ?

    if you dumb down inputs on console you should dumb them down on pc too i mean fair is fair right .. why punish' all the people that are not/might be using macros for the sake of "fairness" ..

    you said
    "Just saying, since you said you haven't heard or seen a pc person doing so..." (nice strawman argument ..)

    I never said this bro LOL I asked a question regarding what the other side is saying for the sake of a balanced argument and you took offense

    I already stated that there is pc contention regarding macros with this comment "The only inequality you might argue is in fact pc players ~~~ .in which some have keyboard macros programed and went thru the trouble ./. and some dont/ could not be bothered/ are too casual on their bard..so this must mean i actually do read the forums ..



    you said
    "there is a thread there that complains about pc doing macros for the bard."

    go ahead link the thread .. this helps bolster your argument if you do so to get people on your side after all the tittle of your thread is PC Bard vs console bard .. so forum link your "facts" plz

    I am saying there are 3 points of view not 2 like you say
    there are console players
    pc players that macro
    and pc player that don't macro

    you are suggesting a solution or fix that does not apply to all groups I am all for your "idea" it would just have to be implemented on all platforms


    you really have no data on what % of the bard population is using macros and are just pulling data out of your hampster to save face in the forums.. i have no idea how many bards use macros and i freely admit this ..
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    I don't use macros. The songs I do play are extremely limited. Moreso from "can't be bothered" fiddling with the different songs/settings. Zex gets played mostly as a sword wielder.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    greywynd said:

    I don't use macros. The songs I do play are extremely limited. Moreso from "can't be bothered" fiddling with the different songs/settings. Zex gets played mostly as a sword wielder.

    @vaultingfrog#2497
    so that is one vote from someone on Pc that does not use macros on his bard....now you cant say it is everyone anymore :D ..
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • tgwolftgwolf Member Posts: 468 Arc User
    Honestly it doesn't bother me and never has; I can play songs manually just as fast on either platform.

    PC has always had Macros for things in pretty much everything (FFXIV has Macros on PS4/5 as well) but I simply hold the opinion that if you want to use Macros for something that's fine, as long as it isn't classified as cheating.

    It just makes you lazy.
  • vaultingfrog#2497 vaultingfrog Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    > @tgwolf said:
    > Honestly it doesn't bother me and never has; I can play songs manually just as fast on either platform.
    >
    > PC has always had Macros for things in pretty much everything (FFXIV has Macros on PS4/5 as well) but I simply hold the opinion that if you want to use Macros for something that's fine, as long as it isn't classified as cheating.
    >
    > It just makes you lazy.

    I'm generally fine with macros as well. I even think I mentioned that in my original post here.

    What I'm not fine with is those macros being used to bypass the core functionality of the class, drastically increasing its ease of use, on a single platform while the other platforms have no recourse other than to play the core function as it was intended.

    Sure I can press buttons quickly, but can I honestly say I'm as fast as a macro? I certainly can't. More over as everyone is a different skill levels at said button pressing, there are those who take twice as long or even far longer than that to do what I do. Yet pc has the ability to nullify that gap to basically nothing.

    Sure not everyone uses them on pc. I don't expect them to. No did I say that all of them did. It literally is the idea that THEY HAVE THE OPTION to bypass a classes core function which other platforms don't have. And they can do this with impunity at this point.
  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 238 Arc User
    Those of us with disabilities on console would love to have the option to not manually play songs.

    It’s not being lazy.

    I can’t play the songs in combat, so will never use the class to it’s potential. Because I physically can’t.

    Is what it is.
    The songs won’t change and the inputs won’t.

    It would be nice, but unless it starts costing money, no one cares and looks like PC guys don’t want it to happen because we don’t need it and are just being lazy. God forbid anyone gets a helping hand now and then.
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