Bard's Binds-cheating

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Comments

  • b0rkch0p
    b0rkch0p Member Posts: 349 Arc User
    Do you classify a sign post as a cheat too? or how bout this
    /bind F1 gensendMessage Vipaction_Overworldmapteleport activate
    cause that's binding too.. =/ Not sure how something we're given to use to make our game play more enjoyable is a cheat.
  • volfangx
    volfangx Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    b0rkch0p said:

    Not sure how something we're given to use to make our game play more enjoyable is a cheat.

    I would answer it with a (series of) question(s): should we go above the legal speed limit with a vehicle just because the vehicle was manufactured like that and the government doesn't lock the speed to the limits somehow? Why doesn't the government just enforce caps on a car's speed if they don't want us doing it?
  • pherrow
    pherrow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User
    Using your analogy, the sky is not the limit....the key binds are the speed limit. You may be able to do more but what's permissible has been set.
  • chidion
    chidion Member Posts: 422 Arc User
    :+1:
  • volfangx
    volfangx Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    pherrow said:

    Using your analogy, the sky is not the limit....the key binds are the speed limit. You may be able to do more but what's permissible has been set.

    You mean been set by the same company who accidentally removed the auctioneer NPC integral to the leveling questline and then fixed that while also accidentally removing the ability to get the free third loadout slot due to it not existing in the zen store anymore and still coming in a coupon? Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense: they create a quickplay button, give bards buffs for playing the song manually and then willingly and consciously leave in the binds that do exactly what quickplay does while also benefitting from the manual buffs, all perfectly intended by design - there's no way in any way, shape or form that they did not intend to create a mechanic just to nullify its core design a second later.
  • pherrow
    pherrow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User
    volfangx said:

    pherrow said:

    Using your analogy, the sky is not the limit....the key binds are the speed limit. You may be able to do more but what's permissible has been set.

    You mean been set by the same company who accidentally removed the auctioneer NPC integral to the leveling questline and then fixed that while also accidentally removing the ability to get the free third loadout slot due to it not existing in the zen store anymore and still coming in a coupon? Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense: they create a quickplay button, give bards buffs for playing the song manually and then willingly and consciously leave in the binds that do exactly what quickplay does while also benefitting from the manual buffs, all perfectly intended by design - there's no way in any way, shape or form that they did not intend to create a mechanic just to nullify its core design a second later.
    Sure they did ( and that's if I even understand what the hell you're even saying at this point). If you've been paying attention you would see they have a trend of making things enticing to as many people as possible, especially up front. Some people will enjoy the more complicated playstyle and that's fine but what about the folks that don't? Well you allow them the an easier yet reduced peformance option. Still not enough? Give them keybinds to get the best of both worlds. Get as many folks to play the bard as possible and invest in it, That's their game. And later, if they make changes and taketh away some features, well, people are already invested...so tough shiitt.

    But either way, if they allow it, it's not a cheat. Whether you like it or not isn't relevent, whether or not they did it mistakenly isn't relevent until they say it's unintended. And even then, people are just using the tools available to them. Doesn't matter how fast the car CAN go, only how fast it is ALLOWED to go. If they don't like the speed limit they established, they will change it...but probably long after people have dumped money and resources into their bard.
  • armadeonx
    armadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    Keybinds have been around for as long as the game has been out - if it was a mistake that they intended to fix they would've done it by now.

    As to whether they'll decide to remove them in the future - well, only Cryptic would have any idea about that, so debating it here is kind of pointless, especially as player opinions are split down the middle on the subject.
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  • pherrow
    pherrow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User
    I actually don't care for them(keybinds). And to me in some cases, it does feel like a cheat (to me). And in any circumstance, the bard discusts me.
    But it's good they made the bard as some people are really excited about it. I think it's good they allow keybinds as it may enrich people's enjoyment for various reasons.
    I just don't like people trying to take options away from OTHER people because they don't like it yet it is allowed and designed into the game. That's pathetic and more disgusting than the bard. Snowflakes try to ruin everything. And I'm not taking about that beautiful shiiitt that lays across the landscape during winter.
  • volfangx
    volfangx Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    pherrow said:

    Sure they did ( and that's if I even understand what the hell you're even saying at this point). If you've been paying attention you would see they have a trend of making things enticing to as many people as possible, especially up front. Some people will enjoy the more complicated playstyle and that's fine but what about the folks that don't? Well you allow them the an easier yet reduced peformance option. Still not enough? Give them keybinds to get the best of both worlds. Get as many folks to play the bard as possible and invest in it, That's their game. And later, if they make changes and taketh away some features, well, people are already invested...so tough shiitt.

    But either way, if they allow it, it's not a cheat. Whether you like it or not isn't relevent, whether or not they did it mistakenly isn't relevent until they say it's unintended. And even then, people are just using the tools available to them. Doesn't matter how fast the car CAN go, only how fast it is ALLOWED to go. If they don't like the speed limit they established, they will change it...but probably long after people have dumped money and resources into their bard.

    My point is very, very simple:
    • Quickplay is a limited slot that allows the player to play a song instantly at the cost of the manual play buffs.
    • Manual play is a function that makes playing songs objectively slower than quickplay at the benefit of gaining manual play buffs.
    • Both of those mechanics have their place and function within the bard class, as one is faster and less rewarding in many situations, while the other is slower and more rewarding in most situations.
    • Using keybinds completely nullifies the purpose of either and mixes them in a way that the player is able to gain the buffs of manual play while using what's effectively quickplay.
    • If a bind bypasses the core mechanics of a class to the point of making their existence completely useless, I cannot in good faith see how it's not cheating, nor see how people can be so blind to such an obvious thing, health issues aside.
    This is not me saying people with arthritis that don't want to play Guitar Hero are cheating; this is me saying perfectly fine people who don't like that they need to press more than two buttons are cheating. People like this ruin the appeal of playing bard and getting good at the class, because it oversimplifies the mechanic compared to the way it was originally designed. I'll stress in very readable letters: IF A BIND REMOVES THE CORE MECHANICS OF A CLASS TO GIVE USERS A CLEAR ADVANTAGE OVER THOSE WHO DON'T USE IT, IT'S AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE AND THUS CHEATING. No, just because everyone else is running red lights left and right, it doesn't mean the issue magically stops existing if I also start doing so.
  • pherrow
    pherrow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 403 Arc User
    Also, and this may hurt you inside a little but life is not always fair. Annnnnd, that's ok.
  • xenocide#6577
    xenocide#6577 Member Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    You could argue its unfair not to use keybinds as your party will suffer if you play the songs incorrectly.
    Arnt the lives of your 4 party members are more valuable than not using keybinds? lol
  • rockster#6227
    rockster#6227 Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    I think it was purely an oversight from the devs and was not intended (going by the created feats for doing it manually) and now they probably don't know what to do about it. There have been masses of things which they have missed/overlooked in this rollout. When you make sweeping major changes you have to go through absolutely everything in the game which is in any way connected to make sure it's all dealt with and working as you want it to which takes a long time, attention to detail and excellent planning, I think the job of doing that is sometimes just too much for them and things get missed.
  • scriondar#4234
    scriondar#4234 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    What kind of oversight? The functions used to make the key binds for Bard did not exist until the Bard class was introduced. So how were they overlooked, its not like they had been in game for years and then the Devs added the feat bonuses for doing it manually. They were created with Bard class along with the feats, this would have to be monumental levels of miscommunication between Devs to be an accident.
  • mparcher#3106
    mparcher#3106 Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    Why would anyone ask the game to lower the fun for other players who prefer another method? This request is toxic af.
  • reg1981
    reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,410 Arc User
    When this thread came out I was SUPER eager to setup the binds. I've tried them and rarely use them. I'd rather pop my hand over to the num pad than try to find hotkeys lol You have no idea how annoying it is to keep popping open my character sheet instead of using a song with "C" and "V" being side by side LOL

    They are great for those who struggle with keys. They are fantastic for when I wanna lean back and play with my feet up and keyboard on my lap but at the end of the day, I'd rather play without! Should they be removed? Not a chance. But I do encourage everyone to give the songs a shot manually!! Use the binds, learn the class, then try without! It's fun!
  • rockster#6227
    rockster#6227 Member Posts: 821 Arc User

    What kind of oversight? The functions used to make the key binds for Bard did not exist until the Bard class was introduced. So how were they overlooked, its not like they had been in game for years and then the Devs added the feat bonuses for doing it manually. They were created with Bard class along with the feats, this would have to be monumental levels of miscommunication between Devs to be an accident.

    Oversight because of the inalienable fact that when they created the skill tree for the Bard they created the feats so that most of them only give the buff if entered not using the autoplay feature and they are only entered manually. If people use keybinds to do all songs, they are getting a buff where it was not intended.
  • mwk
    mwk Member Posts: 332 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    I'm not disabled, but I'm very resourceful! :3 Also I'm really thinking for the disabled gamers in mind. So please have an open mind!

    Inputting numbers for just an extra buff benefit from a song really is just fun gameplay concept I think, if you want to. To get this discussion straight, the developers obviously didn't think of the disabled players in mind during the bard gameplay development design. I'm not stating that the developers are selfish on disabled players, but I have to give insight in mind for this case.

    Inputting numbers rapidly will be a struggle because a disabled gamer can't spread their toes like others with fingers or input many buttons rapidly in time with huge muscle movement. Removing these key binds, that's literally taking away an advantage that gets a disabled gamer killed by enemies trying to input numbers manually just for an extra buff from a particular song according from the class feature.

    [youtube]

    Now someone might have software to play with more comfort. Neverwinter keybinds have existed before the bard release to use a different key not intended. I have seen players discuss key binding the tab key to something different for example.

    Seeing videos on YouTube, I imagine a disabled gamer playing Neverwinter Online using a mouse with foot and up-down-left-right keys with other foot on keyboard. Then using software to key bind 3 breathing holes for encounters. The daily powers using a tongue piece or chin piece up-down. Key binding the ctrl key instead of using tab key for stealth on rogue for example near the up-down-left-right keys on keyboard. Well dodging can be achieved by tapping up-down-left-right keys twice. Give the disabled the accessibility! It's hard for them to input numbers rapidly! As you can see disabled gamer has huge struggle inputting on a phone by using his nose, so entering inputs rapidly is quite difficult for a disabled gamer. Jumping might be a struggle, but at least a disabled gamer is playing Neverwinter. They might as well be hitting the spacebar with their foot heel below the arrows keys? Also I have met players that use a controller for Neverwinter PC using software to key bind buttons. Disabled gamers don't type really, they use voice chat in game during party or use Teamspeak-Discord on continuous speak. So who will make a statement now that disabled gamers can't play Neverwinter Online?



    FFXIV won an award for the most accessible game for disabled gamers.

    Neverwinter Online might be the best also, because of the command type system on chat.

    Again I think the developers didn't think forward. So this is an exception, so it's allowed.

    If you really want to know if it's allowed or not? Ask a developer @nitocris83. However, so far no one has gotten banned for it. So I guess it's allowed? Honestly, I haven't even set my class features yet and the bard is still awesome! Once I know for sure, I guess might as well key bind the songs for a reason I will discuss later as you read.

    Personally I think inputting numbers for a song might get difficult, especially when you have to move and getting attacked by enemies. You're basically running without any look direction with no mouse for 6 or whatever seconds once inputting the numbers 686686 to play Flaming Flamenco for example. You still have to input numbers with the right hand on keyboard. So technically I think it's absurd strafing at this moment that I might be hitting against a wall not able to control myself for 6 or whatever seconds inputting keys. Or technically standing still for 6 or whatever seconds inputting keys for the AOE to work effectively around enemies is quite suicide at times.



    How I feel playing bard trying to input 6 numbers with enemies around me just to get the song buff benefit from class feature.









    Post edited by mwk on
  • blargskull
    blargskull Member Posts: 512 Arc User
    The OP yes you @miliantricia ... has no clue how blocking console commands work. They place level restrictions within the database to block you from using things that only developers are allowed to use. Everything you are allowed, is level 0 and you are not allowed access to any command level 1 or higher.

    Since we are talking about the bind command, this makes it implausible to raise bind to level 1 or higher. Making it impossible for you to remap anything at all. This is not an exploit, this is not a cheat, anyone can do this, therefore bind them if you want to, or play the notes as you go.

    I have met your type before, someone gets a puppy and you want to put it in a bag with a rock. :trollface:

    Just killing time...
  • onodrain
    onodrain Member Posts: 332 Arc User
    I don't recall anyone bringing up the lag issue yet.

    It would be next to impossible to play each note for the bard with the current lag in some zones. Requiring the bard to play each note would make them unplayable, due to the lag, in many situations.

    While I think it is a cool design to manually play the notes, it would be greatly flawed to try and play a bard without the keybinds. But you do you.

    As Blade once said, "Some Mother******** just want to skate up hill!"
  • jizzu#6891
    jizzu#6891 Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    op... lets see if your humming the same tune when your in midst of a mob getting trashed, your responsible for healing your crew and the sweats come-on, reckon you will be mismashing 9/10 of your tunes.
    no skill at all to memory, the skill is in where and when to fire each skill/ tune to chain em. no other class has to hit between 4 and 6 keys to activate a skill, perhaps hunters should have to have separate keystrokes, 1 choose arrow, 2 lift arrow, 3 knock arrow, 4 aim, 5 .... im dead mediccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc.....


    ridiculous whine!