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Paladin needs a buff

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  • violencebf22violencebf22 Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    on the us server, my 39k palohil barely copes with epic dungeons (ps and boots with -25% of incoming heal are also especially cool on dd) on the ru server, cleric 33itl copes with the citadel with a bang. palotank ... shift-tab is some kind of joke. Damage goes through the block. compared to a warrior who has simply unrealistic + s from the tab for tanking end content. to cope with the new dungeon I had to make 51k paladin, but it took 46k warrior to walk without straining. I'm not talking about barbarians at all .. my main class for which I have been playing since 2013. So many edits and so many changes and in the current state of the barbarians do not keep up with other classes, someone will dispute my opinion, but this majority runs in front of the group and just use the wings and daily to the crowd of opponents to fill the damage numbers. The barbarian does not have normal skills for killing a large number of constantly appearing opponents from different directions skills either have a limited radius or a long cast compared to other classes, or have insufficient magnitude. If you discard the speed and agility * then the barbarian should! be explosive power. Let the skills be cast for a long time and they are tight, but the power is 2-3 times less than that of a simple warrior. And this is very upsetting.

    Sorry for my bad english but darkerickx is right. Paladins, like barbarians, need to be brought up.
  • luffyhaki123luffyhaki123 Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    The pally heal spec needs to be buffed for sure, you have to work very very hard to be able to heal *ok* , something needs to be done about pally healing, ether the blue shields need to be more, or the heal to the HP needs to be more. Cause right now its extremely hard to heal as a pally, it needs to be buffed for sure, I have a 53k healing pally, and a 52k healing cleric. pally healing fallas behind botch cleric and warlock big time, the blue shields that pally give with healing , not even that useful

    pally AOE healing is just bad it sucks and doesn't heal or even give shield for HAMSTER, hopefully they are already working on pally healing spec because it needs it.
  • odanobunaga#4974 odanobunaga Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    Yes, both the Paladin tank and healer need some love.
    25% more HP for the tank would be a start.
    Stamina too needs a rework. It's gone too fast.
    Forte is a feature I still haven't understood. Of what use is raising random stats your character partially doesn't need?
    There is a game called Dungeons and Dragons where defense depends on the armour your wear. Heavy armour offers better protection against physical attacks than light one. Revolutionary idea, isn't it? In D&D, only Paladins, Fighters and for some reasons Clerics can wear heavy armour. Barbarians only medium one.

    The Paladin healer should dish out a bit more healing.
  • xcessiveforce40xcessiveforce40 Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited June 3
    @kreatyve - The question here. Is the development team seeing the posts and feedback in the forums? You have players who are concerned about little to no stamina regen and the reason why they chosen to no longer tank. Can we get this relayed up to the Dev team? that would be a good start...
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  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,522 Community Moderator

    @kreatyve - The question here. Is the development team seeing the posts and feedback in the forums? You have players who are concerned about little to no stamina regen and the reason why they chosen to no longer tank. Can we get this relayed up to the Dev team? that would be a good start...

    They are always reading things, but rarely have time to comment. I will forward the thread the Julia to make doubly sure that it has been seen though.
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  • deathwatch#3050 deathwatch Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    Healer:
    Paladin healer really needs increases to healing magnitude. Just wayyyyyy too weak compared to Clerics. You need 10K+ Item Level to even try to be close to clerics. I think the healing magnitudes need to be increased by 1.5x minimum. Or give us a heal over time effect when shields are up. We need heal over time to to compete with the Healing Word ability clerics have.
    Tank:
    Remove the CD on TAB, I don't think other classes have it so not sure why Paladins have a cool down. And reduces some of the Divinity costs on taunt skills. We are not fighter tanks we can't just steal DPS's aggro. We need the Divinity to survive and control aggro. And when you are running endgame content like VOS when you have top DPS pumping out insane damages you really need to spend all of your Divinity on aggression control, which means no Divinity for tab and you are stuck with a mere 40% HP shield that just gets taken away in seconds unless you are spec'ed to 90% def 70% awareness 800k+ HP.
    You simply need way more stats on a Paladin Tank because you need to be able to survive without Divinity skills to maintain the aggro.
    Or at least give us something that steals DPS' threat like on Fighter tanks.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,903 Arc User
    edited August 12
    +1 on Divinity Gain. They need to change it to reflect the amount of damage received, not the number of times struck.

    Stamina loss now works like this - one big hit can drain it completely.

    In boss fights with no adds, the incoming damage is high but not frequent and the really small incremental Divinity increase from this makes divinity management painfully slow. Changing it to the level of damage received would address this issue 100%.

    * and out of combat regen needs to be doubled. Unlike other support classes, Pallies usually find themselves waiting too long for Divinity regen between mobs.
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  • tgwolftgwolf Member Posts: 419 Arc User
    In terms of DPS issues, that can be fixed by making Blessed Wanderer much more effective when Solo:

    Blessed Wanderer: (New)

    When not in a group, gain the following effects:

    - Forte (Primary) is changed to Power.
    - At-Wills deal an additional 20 Magnitude Damage.
    - Damage Increased by 20%.
    - HP Decreased by 20%.
    - Threat Generation greatly reduced.


    General Divinity issues; Composure and Valorous Strike:

    Composure:

    You regenerate Divinity 25% faster.

    Valorous Strike: (Justicar Only)

    Now also restores 75 Divinity over the 3 hits.


    For Tanking issues, that's something that goes beyond the scope of this topic and has differing problems for each Class.


    As for Healing, I have to be honest; part of the issue is that people keep trying to compare the Paladin to the Cleric.

    Clerics are Healing Incarnate, that's what they do and very little else. Comparing anything to them will automatically make that thing look weak in comparison.

    I don't really like to bring other MMOs into balance discussions but essentially:

    Cleric = White Mage
    Warlock = Astrologian
    Paladin = Scholar

    Now obviously they aren't direct comparisons but the general spirit is the same.

    Cleric, like WHM; stuffs you so full of Healing that it has Heals on top of it's Heals and specializes in Regen effects.

    Warlock, like AST; can switch between Regen focus and Shield focus as needed in a party. (though not freely, obv.) It's not as effective as the specialized versions but it's not meant to be. It also provides decent party utility. Kinda.

    Paladin, like SCH; is not designed to deal in raw Healing but to provide Shields that prevent Damage in the first place.

    Now quick quiz; Does anyone remember why Paladin "Healing" was severely nerfed to begin with?

    Yes, it was because the core mechanics of NW made it so Paladin was the only Healer anyone wanted because you never took damage thanks to the Shields. It essentially Doubled everyone's HP and was freely renewable at any time.

    Now I'm not saying that Paladin may not need a SLIGHT improvement to its Healing capability but I actually have a better idea:

    When the target of a Heal has a Divine Barrier applied; convert the Divine Barrier that would be applied into a Heal instead.

    Paladin already has 2 Feats that have this effect: Timely Intervention and Convalescence; which come into effect if the target is under 25% HP or under the effect of Shield of Faith respectively; and you can test them yourself to see that it makes the Paladin's healing comparable while active.

    I propose that the effect be made universal for the Paladin and the effects of Timely Intervention and Convalescence be reversed:

    While the target is under 25% health or under the effect of Shield of Faith respectively; convert all Healing into a Divine Barrier instead.

    This way, Shields cannot get out of control; the annoyance of replacing a currently active Barrier with a weaker one no longer occurs and Paladin Healing is essentially doubled with no further changes required.
  • mparcher#3106 mparcher Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    If Paladin healers are so weak, why is it the most sought after class in the game right now?
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,903 Arc User

    If Paladin healers are so weak, why is it the most sought after class in the game right now?

    That's definitely not the case on XBox and it's the 1st I'm hearing of it from PC...
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  • tgwolftgwolf Member Posts: 419 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    If Paladin healers are so weak, why is it the most sought after class in the game right now?

    That's definitely not the case on XBox and it's the 1st I'm hearing of it from PC...
    It's definitely not the case on PC either.

    Only time a Paladin is highly wanted is in hard Trials where its sole purpose is to mark the Main Tank and keep Tab/RB healing them for Max shield. A Cleric is usually the Main Healer, taking care of 90% of the healing duties.
  • mparcher#3106 mparcher Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    > @tgwolf said:
    > It's definitely not the case on PC either.
    >
    > Only time a Paladin is highly wanted is in hard Trials where its sole purpose is to mark the Main Tank and keep Tab/RB healing them for Max shield. A Cleric is usually the Main Healer, taking care of 90% of the healing duties.

    Good luck being a Pallahealer and trying to do your dailies. The constant onslaught for help in HC VoS is overwhelming.
  • zogarazogara Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    It is extremely painful trying to do solo content with a paladin. As others have said, their main damage dealing abilities, like smite, use up too much divinity. And divinity is too slow to recover.

    Without divinity, your damage output tanks hard. An encounter that would take other classes, say, 10 seconds to clear, takes 20-30 for a paladin.

    They really need something, because I don't see people putting up with the slog that is playing solo content with paladins.
  • barcelona1968#8613 barcelona1968 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    I have no problems with my oathkeeper soloing stuff. She goes through mobs quickly. I am statted mainly for power and damage. I’m almost as quick as my warlock on mobs. Maybe it’s the way I play?
  • amascus#1899 amascus Member Posts: 71 Arc User
    Tanks do 20% less damage then DPS and 10% less damage then healers straight out the gate and Paladins have no DPS spec (the only class that doesn't). So as Oathkeeper you have a 10% damage buff over a Justicar so yea can be a bit better I guess. A simple buff to Blessed Wanderer would help to balance the tank spec out for solo grind content.
  • vaultingfrog#2497 vaultingfrog Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    Is it just me or are pally tanks squishier than before? None of my other toons take any more damage than they used to prior to mod 21... but my pally tank is getting smacked hard these days. My stats haven't changed. No comps were changed, nor mounts, insigs....ect...

    Curious if anyone else notices this
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,903 Arc User

    Is it just me or are pally tanks squishier than before? None of my other toons take any more damage than they used to prior to mod 21... but my pally tank is getting smacked hard these days. My stats haven't changed. No comps were changed, nor mounts, insigs....ect...

    Curious if anyone else notices this

    Yeah it's the way they changed the defence formula. It used to be that Defence became more effective with more points but now it's the opposite, with the benefit per point reducing as the stat goes up. Also, they capped Def at 50% instead of the previous 90%, as such we take that missing 40% as extra incoming damage.
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  • vaultingfrog#2497 vaultingfrog Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    > @armadeonx said:
    > Yeah it's the way they changed the defence formula. It used to be that Defence became more effective with more points but now it's the opposite, with the benefit per point reducing as the stat goes up. Also, they capped Def at 50% instead of the previous 90%, as such we take that missing 40% as extra incoming damage.

    In which patch notes did this occur? I can't find anything dealing with mod 21 saying they crapped on our defense.... and this has only been an issue since mod 21.

    I've played my pally daily since it was released and I noticed the difference right away from mod 20 to 21 in how hard I was hit. I understand that they wanted to make things a bit more challenging but none of my other toons get hit any harder than they used to. Just my pally does.

    So where I ask. Cause the pally has suffered enough. The continuing abuse it gets and the consistent nerfs do nothing but display the contempt the staff has for the class. If it's that universally hated by them then remove it and end the suffering they make their players go through by trying to cope with its constant nerfs.

    I'd that were to happen however I want all my stuff unbound and moved to my other toons. Too much time invested in it to have it flat out removed.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,903 Arc User
    edited September 1
    Ah no this was with the combat changes in mod 20. I haven't played my pally since mod 21 as it came out only a week ago on xbox and I've been busy with my bard...
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  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User
    edited September 3
    Funny thing about paladins and their divinity regen and solo capability, people have been complaining about it since mod 16 hit preview...

    Changes to tanking and healing were adressed on other posts already so i won't even bother to talk about them, a simple thing like changing cleasing touch to aoe, like it used to be, hasn't happened after years of people talking about it

    My advice... play other class, that's what i did

    I really miss pre mod 16 pally... was it broken? yes, but at least it was fun as hell and we didn't had to bother with divinity, also pre mod 16 cleric divinity was nice because it would regen if you used at wills.
  • nme#4141 nme Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited September 5
    I'm a new player, 30k il with no guild and i don't have issues killing stuff, unless it's a boss

    For solo i only use justicar, oath strike + baneful strikes is too good to pass, an aoe at-wil with a good casting animation (even if it's only 25 mag) . But against mobs that don't attack frequently it's just a pain in the HAMSTER, it takes to long to regen divinity! Maybe they could change baneful strikes to also reduce the cost of smite to 0

    I don't play as a tank in queued content so i can't talk too much about it, but i do play healer and it's pretty underwhelming.

    Our heals aren't good enough and our shields aren't good enough either.

    In order to reduce the lack of burst i'm using lillend (20% chance when using a daily to restore 30% Hp on nearby friends. So i combine lillend+shield of faith+circle of divinity+ convalescence, but the problem with that is that i depend on lucky procs, most of the times it comes out good but the times it doesn't proc someone will most likely die.

    As other people said, adding a HoT to divine shelter would be nice, i'm not saying something with a magnitude like healing word but with something that could help us out in the healing department.

    Another thing i would like to see, and this is just me, is a change to divine fulmination - reduce the mag and make it aoe

    Cleansing touch should be aoe, it doesn't even make sense for it not to be

    Also removing the animation lock on sanctuary would be nice too


    But hey what do i know, i've only been around for 2 weeks
    Post edited by nme#4141 on
  • nme#4141 nme Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    ... And also, the fact that cure wounds can be cast on a companion irks me sometimes
  • link#8009 link Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited October 29
    i play paladin for about 2 years now and i originally chose this class because it can both heal and tank but currently it sucks at healing, for tank it would be nice to have extra damage resistance while shield is raised on all classes and i don't like deflect severity as a forte bonus i want guaranteed survival vs. a chance at survival I'd rather have crit avoidance or awareness.On healer for a start i would like it if they raised timely intervention from 25% to at least 50% but would prefer it at 70% my pally has decent stats as a healer (not full endgame yet) and my heal for divine shelter crit heal (excluding shield) is about 15% of a players hp if they don't run rusted leggings so if players are at 70% hp a timely intervention crit divine shelter should just about full their hp and can reapply shield with a second cast. ether that or increase emissary of warding back to 100% because all healers crit severity got cut in half for healing but pally crit shield got an extra 50% cut on the emissary of warding feat which is BS

    Edit: would also be nice if a smaller shield couldn't override a big shield but just refresh its duration too 20 seconds like healing word get extended by 6 seconds if you took that feat.
  • thordet91#6067 thordet91 Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited October 29
    They need to get rid of the loss of critical avoidence when using devinity also… not only can’t we use mitigation encounters when playing with high dps, because we "need" 3 aggro encounters to hold and not lose aggro, we need to suffer the loss of critical avoidance % also? Why is this still the case?

    Also Barbie need a buff, bring fighter down to nr 2 already… ( now I will be popular)
  • sagakaiyume#0847 sagakaiyume Member Posts: 342 Arc User
    Sorry but you only need 1 encounter to hold aggro even against the best of dpsers, templar's wrath.

    Second, you get 10% free crit avoid, its not losing crit avoid, its crit avoid you get for free by being a divinity user. You just lose that free 10% over time as you use divinity.

    Fighter has lost Bladed rampart and it was given to pally. Pally has the best daily out of all tanks. Fighter gets what is simply a joke for options when it comes to AoE aggro, linebreaker that is 160 magnitude, enforced threat that is useless without the feat and still bites with it since our best AoE at will is cleave. Pally is unaffected by the recharge issues that other 2 tanks have during the new RC when it comes to holding aggro as divinity encounters do not have a Cooldown. Fighter's Dig-in, our tab, can rarely be used in things like RC due to the stupidity of the new "kiting" type of tanking we're forced into.

    Maybe learn about all 3 tanks before crying about paladin compared to the others. My 59.6k Fighter is way worse off than my 52.5k pally tank and takes a lot more work to get the same results.
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