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M21 Mythic Insignias Update

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  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,536 Arc User

    sakhsft said:

    armadeonx said:

    sakhsft said:

    armadeonx said:

    They should put a dust pack in the zen store. If they had 1000 dust for 500-1000 zen it'd probably be worth it.

    great make the game more pay to win
    Think about the knock-on effect. Currently, ppl with lots of money/AD are buying up insignias from the AH and this is driving up prices. If they buy from the zen store instead, demand will drop on the AH and will be cheaper for everyone else.

    Cryptic get a win by making $$$, those that have no problem paying get a win by buying large amounts of dust easily, ftp players win by getting cheaper salvageables from the AH...
    developers knows where to focus the game to the rich players that pays tons of money every month , no content just some updates with more pay wall...
    I have said this a thousand times. If a FTP game doesn't make money it isn't around long. If you don't want to spend any $$ in game buy one outright to play. As far as the AD situation, do the math. At 100k per day, that is 36,500,000 per year. That number doesn't even count what you can make off of the AH by selling things that are picked up in end-chests or made through masterwork. The folks that have a ton of AD's got them by being smart and working with the system. The folks that spend real world money are the reason the game has been around for as long as it has been. If you don't want to spend money then grind like I did when I started playing the game. Sometimes it took months to get what I needed or wanted, but I did it. Trust me, it's a ton easier to get AD's, enchantments, runestones, and do upgrades on stuff then it used to be at the beginning of the game.
    Quoted for truth. How long did it take me to get 3 x rank 15 bondings? All those rank 15 radiants? Got my Power up from 120k to 180k took months/years if you take into account the whole thing. Probably 2 years or so?

    I even had VIP for 1 of those two years mainly to get refinement points and sell stuff.

    This is very much a free to play game, probably one of the best ever free to play games.
  • someonediessomeonedies Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited June 2021
    God bless p2w.
    Post edited by someonedies on
    Rimuru?
    Dead 🔪
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,048 Arc User
    edited June 2021


    In any case, to anyone who wants to start playing NW, explain how he does it without putting $$ and without having a good guild/alliance to support/boost him (and this is not easy, because good guilds already ask for minimum ILvl)

    Expect it will take over a year to understand, plan, set up and prepare before your character(s) can be "good" just like most F2P veterans did before.
    Yes, it is more P2W than before. Yes, they have been implicitly and explicitly pushing people to pay $ for years. Now, how are you going to deal with it? Not playing it is one way.

    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,048 Arc User
    edited June 2021


    Expect it will take over a year to understand, plan, set up and prepare before your character(s) can be "good" just like most F2P veterans did before.

    Sorry, but that is not so.

    Before all these "wonderful" changes (irony mode ON), in a couple of months I could farm both avernus and vallenhas quite easily, because in that time I had my defensive stats capped, and had enough power and armor pen. I could even tank an IC.
    At that time, the only thing that i couldn't do was TOMM and farm heroics in Avernus alone (basically for as long as i needed).

    And I repeat, only a couple of months ... but of course, it was a time when prices were reasonable, you only needed an augmentation with 3 decent bondings and you didn't need "Bolsters" ....

    ---- And no, this game is not as difficult as it is said .... I just need a good reference guide for my justicar and a guide on how to "rush" the game.

    The catastrophe for any new player has come with the combat rework + the bonding/AD exchange ... That's where the huge "paywall" began for anyone who starts playing now.

    So no, it didn't take more than a year for your character to be "good."
    If you can farm avernus and vallenhas, you are not a new player, at least, not the same "new player" like most veterans were in the past. When I started to play in mod 3, it took over a year to be "good". I guess new player has an easier way than we did (for F2P) in the past.

    The set up I refer to is not about rushing a character but about setting up infrastructure to sustain F2P. It is not about getting a pay cheque to get pass day to day and short term but a long term strategy to be F2P and have "everything".

    The only thing in this game that does not change is "change". It has been totally "changed" N times. What you complain today, you will complain again next major mod and next next major mod and ... (assuming you stay).
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 825 Arc User



    What is the last point of all this final process? ...... as you can see, all of this forces players to spend $$ to buy zen.


    I'm pretty sure the devs have not been shy about discussing this. They want players to buy more Zen with real world money. That fact, in and of itself, is neither evil nor misguided. Cryptic isn't a charity, and a true F2P player has 0 value as a customer as they provide no ROI for the company's investment into the game.

    What is questionable - and I've questioned it plenty - is how they approach their attempts to convince players to spend more $$ in game.

    As it stands, my VIP runs out in just about exactly 30 days. While I'd like to invest in more VIP and play a new bard when M21 is released - the story, RPG elements, professions and status of the guild concept are now so poorly supported and executed that I have no desire to continue. This game is now all about dungeon runs and the pursuit of BiS gear and precious little else. That's not enough for me.
  • deathwatch#3050 deathwatch Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    As someone who spends money on this game, I want to point it out to Cryptic that if you constantly milk the cow dry there won't be a cow to milk eventually. New players aren't staying because you either need to pay 100-200 USD to buy the companion upgrade tokens and companions/or farm for half a year to be able to even start getting into the end game.
    And now with this Mythic Insignia you are driving the older players away with something they cannot achieve without paying hundreds to open lockboxes.
    It has already happened before and if it continues in this direction in mod 21 with stunts like this there won't be a player base left.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    What's so dumb about this is they tried this type of thing with mount collars and I bet less then one percent of the population have even lego collars at this point. If there's so way to attain these items without spending literally 1000's of dollars people just won't do it. Time and money wasted on their part.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • sagakaiyume#0847 sagakaiyume Member Posts: 359 Arc User
    Well, all insignias mythic will be "more" common than 5x mythic collars simply due to the ease of getting trade bars and insignia dust from lockboxes. For example, myself can outfit my tank in full mythic insignias and I haven't done anything but open lockboxes in months.

    Many people had several units capped on trade bars until the bonding runestone issue, I'm sure some of them hoarded anyways.

    The issue comes with those who don't have vip having really no way of getting a significant amount of insignia powder outside of things like hell pit event, summerfest or just buying it.

    Another issue of mythic insignias is that you can go from one mod to the next needing a full different set, many won't bother even when they have the resources because of this, its much easier just to keep 1 set of each type of legendary insignia.
  • poliel#3832 poliel Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    just solo-queue rtq and redq. one problem solved.
    faster than building a group.
    of course some popel will instaquit when they get into lomm.
    hope they don't queue for the new "redq of wipe" since all those dungeons are quitter dungeons.
  • sagakaiyume#0847 sagakaiyume Member Posts: 359 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    I qualify as "very old player with hundreds of millions in the bank", but would like things easier and better quality of life for newer players.

    People in my situation can simply feed off other players because resources are scarce with few ways of making significant AD as a newer player. More stuff needs to be unbound allowing even newer players to have stuff to sell, along with increased drops from dungeons (they keep promising and keep delaying, its seriously a joke and punishes new players most).

    They seem to think average of 5 trade bars or a scroll of life every run, every if it takes 45 mins, is fair.
    Post edited by sagakaiyume#0847 on
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 512 Arc User





    I have said this a thousand times. If a FTP game doesn't make money it isn't around long. If you don't want to spend any $$ in game buy one outright to play. As far as the AD situation, do the math. At 100k per day, that is 36,500,000 per year. That number doesn't even count what you can make off of the AH by selling things that are picked up in end-chests or made through masterwork. The folks that have a ton of AD's got them by being smart and working with the system. The folks that spend real world money are the reason the game has been around for as long as it has been. If you don't want to spend money then grind like I did when I started playing the game. Sometimes it took months to get what I needed or wanted, but I did it. Trust me, it's a ton easier to get AD's, enchantments, runestones, and do upgrades on stuff then it used to be at the beginning of the game.


    Please, let's be a bit more rigorous about this. Ur calculations are very good, but now I ask you:

    - Do you think upgrading all the insignias costs 37 million? ... I don't know how much 75k tradebars can cost, because their drop is very random, but the last time I saw the price of an epic insignia, it was 75000. That makes upgrading everything cost 56 million. Do you think it is reasonable that it takes a year and a half to achieve it?

    - And this is what it seems that nobody is seeing .... Do you think that in that time they will not make more changes of this style? When do you think they put the mythical enchantments in the game? ... I say it because in less than a year we have had:

    - The Mounts Rework
    - The companions Rework
    - The bonding / AD exchange that has inflated all prices

    And I'm asking you because I'm tired of big whales spenders and very old players with hundreds of millions of AD in the bank continuing to sell that "all is time and patience" or something like that.
    It is very evident that we are entering a "vicious cycle" in which very screwed up changes are implemented faster than players can adapt.

    Also you say "Trust me, it's a ton easier to get AD's ..." Great, show it. From what I see, the only ones that continue to have a reasonable capacity for profit are:

    1) Players who for years have accumulated Companions, Insignias, Enchantments, Token ... etc because they have lived better times in which a toon did not cost you 150-200 million (and therefore they have been able to accumulate things)
    2) Spenders who directly buy things.

    The rest can NOT get profit today:

    - Dungeons have a ridiculous drop rate, so the probability of having a high-roll on a chest with some real value is very low
    - Avernus is already dead. There is no economy there since Sharandar items are better. Add that since they took away the free favors, the very few ppl who were still looking for their Ribcage or Power Shirt stopped doing it because no one is going to lose tons of minutes doing T2-T3 for free.
    - The economy that had with the arcanes also died when they nerfed the mirage set.
    - Today no one buys shattered because those who bought them have already got what they needed (normal after several months).
    - And best of all, the items that have been released with the new Mod are Bound to Account or Bound to Character, so they cannot be traded.

    What's left? ..... the 100k a day, make a profit with the events (since there is nothing to farm, everyone does it, and therefore no one buys), make a profit with the whorkshop (there are very few capable of it) and the high rolls in dungeons.

    So I invite you to show us how to overcome the obvious problem that exists.
    It remains to comment on the ZAX problem, imagine a new f2p player having to wait 7 months to get 500 Zen, he would still need to wait another 7 months to get 1 month vip (rofl) . Another one, the double enchant stones event which is the most popular farm in the game is taking place every month and this makes the price not go up, it always stays at an average of 19 ~ 23k max per unit. See the new sets of Sharandar, they are worth almost nothing and the same is true with all post mod 16 in terms of value. Some still manage to do some extra ad selling ToMM rings or with MW, other than that just accept that you will only have 100k daily and once in 100 chests to drop something you can sell, which most of the time the return is insignificant. To remind the sharks, it's the f2p who buy the items that fall out of your lockbox and that you post in the AH when you don't need to.

    Well, the dev's made these changes to the game's life and as VoS requires 45k, maybe the next content should be for players with a minimum of 50k. But it will be fun to see players with 60k+ and others with 40k which should be an average of what 90% of players currently are.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,932 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    I don't know why people are getting upset over the introduction of mythic insignias. I'm sure most players will do the same as me; not bother.

    With hard caps on all stats and 50k+ players running with effectively maxed primary stats, the advantage from such a huge layout would be severely limited and certainly not cost effective.

    Yes, some will want them for the 'ooh look at my item level ' effect and good luck to those that care about such things.
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  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,128 Arc User
    I think is good to have items that need years to upgrade. Collars are an example. I can upgrade all collars to mythic but I dont want to spend so much for a little improvement. But playing the game I got some shards and upgraded 1 of them, just by playing.

    I am not stressed because I dont have everything maxed. This game had too many years where you could be BIS so easy that you could even max 2 or 3 toons with a not so high cost.

    The problem is when you think you MUST be BIS in 6 months. This is wrong, and more even in a free to play game where you need to give whales room to spend and is not unfair for other players because you can spend 100 millions of AD and be only 5% stronger that others, and I think I am exagerating, because the difference for example in a player with mythic collars and other with epic ones is ... well not very high.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
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  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,128 Arc User

    I think is good to have items that need years to upgrade. Collars are an example. I can upgrade all collars to mythic but I dont want to spend so much for a little improvement. But playing the game I got some shards and upgraded 1 of them, just by playing.

    I am not stressed because I dont have everything maxed. This game had too many years where you could be BIS so easy that you could even max 2 or 3 toons with a not so high cost.

    The problem is when you think you MUST be BIS in 6 months. This is wrong, and more even in a free to play game where you need to give whales room to spend and is not unfair for other players because you can spend 100 millions of AD and be only 5% stronger that others, and I think I am exagerating, because the difference for example in a player with mythic collars and other with epic ones is ... well not very high.


    I still don't understand why you keep making the analogy with mount collars. They are completely different cases.

    We all agree that legendary-mythical collars are nothing worth it. It's what I said ... in relation to its cost, they give you very little IL and you lose rating, so the benefit is almost nil.

    This is not the case with mithyc insignias. They literally give you a lot of IL without losing rating. 70-80k HP in a tank or 500 base damage in a DPS is a lot. You cannot compare this to collars.

    And yes, in the rest I agree. But I insist on one thing ... we are entering a process in which the devs are implementing very large changes in a very short time. They are going to put these insignias when many players have not yet been able to adapt to the bolsters. And that is my complaint .... that they follow this path and it is impossible to be "updated".
    You have a point, obviously is not the same as collars, but also, I bet there will be mythic insignias as rewards in lockboxes / events, etc. So they will be much much cheaper to get. Also insignia powder is in lockboxes and upgrade legendary ones is much much cheaper than upgrade collars.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
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    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
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  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 512 Arc User

    I think is good to have items that need years to upgrade. Collars are an example. I can upgrade all collars to mythic but I dont want to spend so much for a little improvement. But playing the game I got some shards and upgraded 1 of them, just by playing.

    I am not stressed because I dont have everything maxed. This game had too many years where you could be BIS so easy that you could even max 2 or 3 toons with a not so high cost.

    The problem is when you think you MUST be BIS in 6 months. This is wrong, and more even in a free to play game where you need to give whales room to spend and is not unfair for other players because you can spend 100 millions of AD and be only 5% stronger that others, and I think I am exagerating, because the difference for example in a player with mythic collars and other with epic ones is ... well not very high.


    I still don't understand why you keep making the analogy with mount collars. They are completely different cases.

    We all agree that legendary-mythical collars are nothing worth it. It's what I said ... in relation to its cost, they give you very little IL and you lose rating, so the benefit is almost nil.

    This is not the case with mithyc insignias. They literally give you a lot of IL without losing rating. 70-80k HP in a tank or 500 base damage in a DPS is a lot. You cannot compare this to collars.

    And yes, in the rest I agree. But I insist on one thing ... we are entering a process in which the devs are implementing very large changes in a very short time. They are going to put these insignias when many players have not yet been able to adapt to the bolsters. And that is my complaint .... that they follow this path and it is impossible to be "updated".
    You have a point, obviously is not the same as collars, but also, I bet there will be mythic insignias as rewards in lockboxes / events, etc. So they will be much much cheaper to get. Also insignia powder is in lockboxes and upgrade legendary ones is much much cheaper than upgrade collars.
    I do not believe this. Events, lockbox and drop will continue to come badges at the most legendary, so their argument is to give more life to the game and is a way to control the price of insignias that tend to devalue absurdities in events like the Hell Pit.
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 512 Arc User
    @stark760 I agree with your words.

    The other day while waiting for a party to be complete I stayed in PE and paid attention to the chat, I could see that some new players are looking for the content according to the item level suggested by the game. This reinforces that these have numbers that do not match what the player really needs to complete them. Take ToMM as an example, it's practically impossible for a group with a required item level to complete. It would be like if you force the player to enter this content and fail so that he has the desire to want to complete, this forces him to spend as well as generates toxicity. Or the player just folds and forgets the content exists, which is probably what most people do after failing.
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