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Two things off my chest - Scaling and Endgame (m21)

ukspawnukspawn Member Posts: 382 Arc User
edited June 14 in Player Feedback (PC)
I've said this here there and everywhere, except here, in more detail but here goes,

1) Combat changes/scaling
I'm hearing you're done with this? Did you ever take into consideration your player base numbers when implementing those changes?
I said it before and it's obviously going to and has gotten worse as time goes on and numbers drop. This game in it's current state can not sustain the combat changes campaign/zone wide. It isn't and wasn't ever remotely viable. I mean if the plan is to loop the power creep cycle, again, then we're just looping quick fixes? Or is this in part why we're seeing and will see more areas being closed off?

One quick example, just to show how quickly this escalates in current state. Trying to get a BHE from ep 1 or even 2, in New Sharandar is already very evidently a pain, now consider this from a new players perspective in legacy content. Again, BHE is a mere example, it's applicable to all content.

2) Endgame.
In one of your recent blogs, I was disheartened to read that "endgame" was used as a reasoning, in part, behind the new leveling system/adventure/mod 21, with a view to pushing new players throuh a more singular/concise path with a view to getting to endgame?
What do you view as endgame, as developers?
One of my worries over the past few months and prior has been that the focus is almost entirely on the new "endgame" content. I get there's many issues with the old code but if this is the way forward it would be beneficial for the player base to get a more detailed insight (updated road map?) into where this is all going.

I read the blog with the reasonings for the mod 21 changes and tbh it read like a generic script without any real reasoning or clarity. If streamin-lining is the way forward, then the game will become another generic mmo with no real content or uniqueness. If the plan is to take the existing features and genuinely fix/re-work them and not just "they might come back", then hopefully we'll hear more soon otherwise the perspective isn't that great for both new and old players.

The game needs diversity, working diversity, mod 21 in it's current insight (excluding the new class) doesn't appear to be addressing this, almost the opposite. Whilst games like this will always have a hardcore player base whoms focus is purely "beat the biggest badest boss and gimme the most epicest blingy items", that's not everyone, nor a majority, nor should it be. Don't get me wrong, it's important obviously but in an mmo so are all the other features that are seemingly neglected, de-prioritized, removed or vaulted. The games already lost a lot of what made it unique over the years, would love to see or hear more on how the existing features outside of "endgame", latest content will be fixed, overhauled, looked at etc..

Professions
PVP (yup even that)
Achievements
Collections
Exploration
Events
Guilds
Exchanges
Appearance

to name a few and the sub-systems within each. All of these and more could and should be inclusive with "endgame" content.

Comments

  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 824 Arc User
    I second the question about Guilds in this context. The clear focus of the devs is now on getting players into endgame asap - presumably because that's where their data shows the most $$ being spent on Zen.

    How does the Guild/SH concept fit into this new vision?
  • kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 613 Arc User
    Strongholds and guilds at this point are obviously an afterthought currently.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,905 Arc User

    I second the question about Guilds in this context. The clear focus of the devs is now on getting players into endgame asap - presumably because that's where their data shows the most $$ being spent on Zen.

    How does the Guild/SH concept fit into this new vision?

    I agree. Of course, when they design/change content around the core principle of making money as opposed to attracting/keeping players (and thereby ENTICING them to spend money) you end up with a downward population spiral, which is what we have been experiencing for a while.

    This is the flaw in focusing on quarterly results instead of taking the long view.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

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  • miraclegaming#9971 miraclegaming Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    Would rather have them sell more fashion at Zen store than P2W stuff
  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    Well they missed their chance at money with this sad Jubilee.
    All the coupons all the new items just were not there and it’s not worth buying figurines because there’s nothing worth buying from the event merchant.
    This is the event I spent money and time. It was my favorite but has been in steady decline and taking away the rewards bonus for spending Zen was a terrible idea.
    But that’s been spreading through the game in general.
    The rewards vs grind isn’t sustainable and by that I mean fun.
  • ukspawnukspawn Member Posts: 382 Arc User
    Coming back to highlight my 2 points.

    Now, I was aware of this prior and have been since combat changes but having spent a good amount of time playing through alts it just get's more and more noticeable.

    B A L A N C E. Honestly, I just put my head in my hands with this. When balance is considered, especially through change like the combat re-works, can we look a little outside the obvious box?

    The balance is still well off in pve when playing through and comparing each campaign zone. You constantly used "Vallenhas and New Sharandar (in preview) as the examples of balance when you introduced the conbat reworks, and yes, they were balanced, but still, to this day, the other areas are not balanced in the pve enviroment. It's worse because it's a complete mish-mash. I've found the open area campaign maps suffer the worst, whilst campaign quests in separate maps (e.g a dungeon, weekly), fair better.

    The most simple and generic was of putting this is, if I take Vallenhas campaign as a whole and compare that to say, Icewind Dale, as a whole, Vallenhas is easier and yes, this is a comparison from using the same character. There are multiple legacy campaigns, if not all, that suffer from this. You can run a level compatible character through multiple 1-60 campaign areas and the struggle will be significantly harder than when you reach the likes of Vallenhas or New Sharandar, this can be applicable to the open area, closed of weekly instances, HE's and BHE's. The scaling is just absolutely all over the place.

    It seems like the worst areas impacted as if the mobs have combat advantage on crack, where the comparatively balanced areas, if anything, have a much softer touch of mob CA.

    and again, on top of all this is the original point of challenging content not being sustainable by the player count. A huge issue with legacy content.

    Whilst it's likely on the cards as it has been in the past, either drop the over the top CA in legacy (open) areas, or remove/increase the power cap for them. I know the latter is virtually impossible because of the overall impact but it's just to get the point across.

    Again, whilst it's too late, despite having been said multiple times, the impact of this on new players is very telling. I'm guessing it's another reason for the changes in mod 21, but it's still applicable to legacy content. If the point is to simply divert from it, that's awful. Stop pushing just "endgame" content, it's turning the game to HAMSTER, with very little variety. All people are doing in running VoS on loop.
  • silente07#2597 silente07 Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    Look in PE at the Guild advertising for new players. The 20’s only want mid to endgame 40k + players.
    Huge change from what it’s been.
    It’s all just endgame. Endgame

    I guess that’s the direction of the game now.

    Assembly line through the first 20 then pop em out to do endgame content.
  • flyball#6248 flyball Member Posts: 158 Arc User
    The most frustrating part for me is my mains are at the 30-33k level. Trying to get groups and invite for Bel are impossible/ the other day there was someone looking for people. was invited and the subsequently kicked (before even going in) not because of game chat or anything I did o said, but solely because my item level was sub 40k. How the heck are those at 30k supposed to get to endgame content when the current system means that if you are below 40k, no one wants your for Tomm, IC, ZC ZC master and of course Vos is 45k to enter. To get better it would be nice to work to get the celestial set or lionsguard gear heck even to get the resources to raise my forgers box to mythic from Bel fights so I can buy the freakin rod.

    Guilds sound nice for building your toon up, but with all the "endgamers" in GH20s and only playing with other 45-50k players that leaves little opportunity for those in the 30-40k range to learn the mechanics of the harder endgame dungeons. The combat changes and other changes are seeming to make this a less then friendly game.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,226 Arc User
    I've only run Bel in a party a few times. Faster and easier to run it solo.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • tchefi#6735 tchefi Member Posts: 309 Arc User

    Guilds sound nice for building your toon up, but with all the "endgamers" in GH20s and only playing with other 45-50k players that leaves little opportunity for those in the 30-40k range to learn the mechanics of the harder endgame dungeons.

    :'(

    Sad to hear that, and definitely not what I had experienced myself in guild/ally i have joined : they are mostly quite "newb/casual" friendly, and leaning toward cooperation and helping each others.

    Should it be the duty of endgamers to take the hand of midgamers/newbs and show them everything, help them grow, teach them ?

    No, it's a vocation that not everyone has, and sometimes quite a torture for some who has it... because there is mostly always no personnal "return on invest" (financial, technical, social), and the kind of thanks and gratitude you get is 4 out of 5 people either giving up/quitting one month later, spitting in your face 3 months later, betray or forget you helped them 6 months later once they think they have surpass you.
    Fortunately, there is also that one guy/girl out of 5 that's still make me think it's always worth it to give a hand, just in case. But honestly, after years of being altruist, you grow quite a disapointement about the current generation of MMORPG players.

    Anyway...

    What prevents you from finding/bounding with some players in your IL range/timezone and then grow up together ? I mean, it's a MMORPG... do you think you really need the help of any endgamer to become one yourself ? :/

    If GH20s guilds aren't a match for you, why not starting your own guild ? Yep, it's a hardcore farming process to build up a guild from scratch, but it is also a good way to gather people who are willing to build something together rather than just profiting from the work finished by others.

    Personnally, I started playing the game with my brother. 2 months later we were running the content mostly with buddies and friends we had made on the road or with guildies in the guild we had chosen (guildhall lvl 4 at that time, we purposely chose a low level one despite level 20 were already plenty). Not a single one of our buddies was an endgamer. It took us a bit more than 1 year to get efficient at endgame, and I wouldn't have expected to be a faster process.
    I have enjoyed the "catching up" period, far far much than the then "stay at endgame" eternal era.

    Maybe the moral would be we should enjoy the journey as it may be more important than the final destination ?

  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,905 Arc User
    When I first started playing (about 6 years ago) I teamed up with a bunch of new players and we would attempt epic dungeons together. Whilst we had a hard time doing it (with many fails), we had a lot of fun. We went at our own pace, joked around and were there for the comradery as much as the challenge.

    I liked to research dungeon mechanics and builds and would share the info with the group and eventually we got better, but to me, that was far more preferable to aiming straight for high-end speed running teams where I'd be a burden (and feel bad about it). The onus was always on myself to get better and eventually be able to contribute effectively to endgame teams.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

    Xael De Armadeon: DC
    Xane De Armadeon: CW
    Zen De Armadeon: OP
    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


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