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Conserns about the recently announced VoS hard more

ron#1747 ron Member Posts: 114 Arc User
As we all know, the regular VoS was filled with heal checks. From corpses damaging people very fast in the first boss, to the ice on floor damaging the group in the 2nd boss, to the black holes, hypos, and void pools in the 3rd boss. And as we all know, healing classes are far from being balanced right now, and paladin healers have had quite a hard time healing VoS on their own, and a lot of paladin healers struggled, to the point when groups started requiring cleric and warlock healers only.

So if a lot of paladin healers had such a hard time with regular VoS, what's gonna happen in this new hard mode? A lot of paladin healers have been voicing consern over this today, and for a good reason. If the hard mode will be balanced with elite, endgame, cleric and warlock healers in mind, the dungeon might be near impossible to heal on a paladin.

So the damage values in this new VoS hard mode will need to be balanced with paladin healers in mind.

Another option would be to drastically buff paladin healers BEFORE the hard mode release, which would also solve the problem. But any solution involving releasing the dungeon first and buffing the pally healers later is not going to work, because by the time they'll get that buff, most endgame players will finish grinding out everything they wanted out of this hard mode, and move on, leaving the now buffed pallies struggling to find groups.

So basically, unless the devs can manage to rework the oathkeepers in the next few weeks, they're gonna need to balance the hard mode with paladin healers in mind, or they'll end up leaving an entire paragon path out of their current endgame content

Comments

  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    Not to worry, soon everyone will be trading in their Paladin healers for the new Bard healers...
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    Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
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  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    With the new class having a healer paragon I suspect this might play into this to get people to play it.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • ron#1747 ron Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    > @autumnwitch said:
    > With the new class having a healer paragon I suspect this might play into this to get people to play it.

    And what about people who love the paladin playstyle and powers? Should they just be thrown under the bus by the devs or asked to reroll a bard and re-grind all their hard earned gear, companions, non account wide mounts, campaigns, etc?
  • ron#1747 ron Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    > @kiraskytower said:
    > Not to worry, soon everyone will be trading in their Paladin healers for the new Bard healers...

    You can't just trade characters or accounts, that's against the ToS
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,677 Arc User
    edited June 4
    ron#1747 said:

    > @kiraskytower said:
    > Not to worry, soon everyone will be trading in their Paladin healers for the new Bard healers...

    You can't just trade characters or accounts, that's against the ToS

    What that means was one 'parks' his character, build a bard and move the movable goodie to the bard.
  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Member Posts: 452 Arc User

    ron#1747 said:

    > @kiraskytower said:
    > Not to worry, soon everyone will be trading in their Paladin healers for the new Bard healers...

    You can't just trade characters or accounts, that's against the ToS

    What that means was one 'parks' his character, build a bard and move the movable goodie to the bard.
    Exactly. Make a new Bard, and leave the Paladin behind. Assuming this turns out like every new class it will be hopelessly overpowered for the first few modules.
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    Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
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  • xenocide#6577 xenocide Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    Random dungeon queues will be 4 bards and a tank 🙂
  • ron#1747 ron Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    > @kiraskytower said:
    > Exactly. Make a new Bard, and leave the Paladin behind. Assuming this turns out like every new class it will be hopelessly overpowered for the first few modules.

    You do realized that you'd have to regrind all of your gear, including stuff like trial weapons, hunt gear, etc, and also all your companions, a lot of your mounts, and the tokens to get them to mythic, and all of your campaign progression, and an absolute <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ton of other character bound stuff. Such a character transfer would cost tens of millions and a huge grind and is just not feasible for the big majority of players
  • hotfrostwormhotfrostworm Member Posts: 324 Arc User
    ron#1747 said:

    > @kiraskytower said:
    > Exactly. Make a new Bard, and leave the Paladin behind. Assuming this turns out like every new class it will be hopelessly overpowered for the first few modules.

    You do realized that you'd have to regrind all of your gear, including stuff like trial weapons, hunt gear, etc, and also all your companions, a lot of your mounts, and the tokens to get them to mythic, and all of your campaign progression, and an absolute HAMSTER ton of other character bound stuff. Such a character transfer would cost tens of millions and a huge grind and is just not feasible for the big majority of players

    No, I was just on preview playing as the bard. Your new level cap is 20. At level 2 they gift you the free horse and send you off to Neverdeath Graveyard. I saw some armors in the Adventurer's Guild for level 20 being sold for 25000 AD per item. I could be wrong, but it seems like the armor for the new level 20 will cost you 500,000 AD top.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,677 Arc User
    edited June 4
    ron#1747 said:

    > @kiraskytower said:
    > Exactly. Make a new Bard, and leave the Paladin behind. Assuming this turns out like every new class it will be hopelessly overpowered for the first few modules.

    You do realized that you'd have to regrind all of your gear, including stuff like trial weapons, hunt gear, etc, and also all your companions, a lot of your mounts, and the tokens to get them to mythic, and all of your campaign progression, and an absolute HAMSTER ton of other character bound stuff. Such a character transfer would cost tens of millions and a huge grind and is just not feasible for the big majority of players

    Not really. It is just another character. It does not matter if it is a new class or old class. It will just be the 7th character like the other 6 characters I play at the same time. If they add bard weapon set to "the redeemed citadel" vendor, I will just buy a set using favor for him.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    I'll comment back here when i find the OP heals that i run with struggling with VoS once this is out.
  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Member Posts: 452 Arc User

    ron#1747 said:

    > @kiraskytower said:
    > Exactly. Make a new Bard, and leave the Paladin behind. Assuming this turns out like every new class it will be hopelessly overpowered for the first few modules.

    You do realized that you'd have to regrind all of your gear, including stuff like trial weapons, hunt gear, etc, and also all your companions, a lot of your mounts, and the tokens to get them to mythic, and all of your campaign progression, and an absolute HAMSTER ton of other character bound stuff. Such a character transfer would cost tens of millions and a huge grind and is just not feasible for the big majority of players

    Not really. It is just another character. It does not matter if it is a new class or old class. It will just be the 7th character like the other 6 characters I play at the same time. If they add bard weapon set to "the redeemed citadel" vendor, I will just buy a set using favor for him.
    These days this is even easier than it used to be. Account wide mounts and companions take alot of the expense out of making a new character, plus the ability to buy gear for other classes with seals and the like means that in many cases you can have a character who just reached 20th level fully outfitted before you ever really run anything with that character.
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  • ron#1747 ron Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    > @hotfrostworm said:
    > No, I was just on preview playing as the bard. Your new level cap is 20. At level 2 they gift you the free horse and send you off to Neverdeath Graveyard. I saw some armors in the Adventurer's Guild for level 20 being sold for 25000 AD per item. I could be wrong, but it seems like the armor for the new level 20 will cost you 500,000 AD top.

    That's not bis gear tho, bis gear will have to be re-grinded from scratch
  • flyball#6248 flyball Member Posts: 158 Arc User
    Excuse me for a moment, but what is this level cap? Is this only for the new Bard class or will this be for all classes. How will that affect existing level 80 Chars....also how is a level 20 going to reach the required itl to even do VOS?
  • victorstillwatervictorstillwater Member Posts: 20 Arc User

    Excuse me for a moment, but what is this level cap? Is this only for the new Bard class or will this be for all classes. How will that affect existing level 80 Chars....also how is a level 20 going to reach the required itl to even do VOS?

    I believe they're adjusting everything so that the max level is now 20 across. Your gearscore/build grows more important past this level 20 cap. :)
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,102 Arc User
    To the OP - easy mode and hard mode is something this game needs badly. They used to have it and it worked well (as long as the rewards are structured suitably).
  • flyball#6248 flyball Member Posts: 158 Arc User

    Excuse me for a moment, but what is this level cap? Is this only for the new Bard class or will this be for all classes. How will that affect existing level 80 Chars....also how is a level 20 going to reach the required itl to even do VOS?

    I believe they're adjusting everything so that the max level is now 20 across. Your gearscore/build grows more important past this level 20 cap. :)
    God I hope not. I was thinking perhaps more a play test to get things right before a full release of the and and all associated gear.
    lantern22 said:

    To the OP - easy mode and hard mode is something this game needs badly. They used to have it and it worked well (as long as the rewards are structured suitably).

    They still have it for most things epic/master vs normal mode don't see it with skirmishes but some trials and most dunfeons have it....except Lomm, and perhaps IC and ZC trial wise there is Master Demogoron, but not sure on the other trials.
  • rockster#6227 rockster Member Posts: 646 Arc User
    There used to be a normal Demo and a master Demo, they deleted the normal version a while back. That was also the version most people preferred to play.
  • hotfrostwormhotfrostworm Member Posts: 324 Arc User

    Excuse me for a moment, but what is this level cap? Is this only for the new Bard class or will this be for all classes. How will that affect existing level 80 Chars....also how is a level 20 going to reach the required itl to even do VOS?

    I believe they're adjusting everything so that the max level is now 20 across. Your gearscore/build grows more important past this level 20 cap. :)
    God I hope not. I was thinking perhaps more a play test to get things right before a full release of the and and all associated gear.
    lantern22 said:

    To the OP - easy mode and hard mode is something this game needs badly. They used to have it and it worked well (as long as the rewards are structured suitably).

    They still have it for most things epic/master vs normal mode don't see it with skirmishes but some trials and most dunfeons have it....except Lomm, and perhaps IC and ZC trial wise there is Master Demogoron, but not sure on the other trials.
    According to the developer blog posted here in the Arc News. The new module 21 will squish all players to 20. I have tested it on Preview and your new level cap is 20.

    Changes covered by the blog are; level 20, which is the max level and content being vaulted (removed). There is another thread on the Preview forum here. This covers the content being vaulted. I don't know what some of the acronyms used are and my wife informed me VoS is Vault of Stars. That is not vaulted.
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited June 6
    The game is going to be even easier to access than it already was. I started lvling a bard and you just basically follow the guidelines that hold your hand to 20. You will get a lot of stuff for finishing adventure zones, including an epic mount, r8 insignias, runestones, single stat enchants, a weapon enchantment and so on.
    I am pretty sure that those that still find the game fun and enjoyable can and will run a bard in no time - especially since you can actually get mediocre and quite alright gear easily, as @hotfrostworm pointed out, since there was a few mythic account mounts already, stuff like that right.

    Many people said in the past that they do not really enjoy playing pally, they enjoy being needed as a pally - Bard is (imo, I don't like pally, don't stone me) in a similar spot, a bit clunky, and it might as well follow in OP's release footsteps as being OPOP for quite a while.
    *footsteps edit cause it was more of a mixture of it and foodstamps
    - bye bye -
  • ron#1747 ron Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    > @jules#6770 said:
    > The game is going to be even easier to access than it already was. I started lvling a bard and you just basically follow the guidelines that hold your hand to 20. You will get a lot of stuff for finishing adventure zones, including an epic mount, r8 insignias, runestones, single stat enchants, a weapon enchantment and so on.
    > I am pretty sure that those that still find the game fun and enjoyable can and will run a bard in no time - especially since you can actually get mediocre and quite alright gear easily, as @hotfrostworm pointed out, since there was a few mythic account mounts already, stuff like that right.
    >
    > Many people said in the past that they do not really enjoy playing pally, they enjoy being needed as a pally - Bard is (imo, I don't like pally, don't stone me) in a similar spot, a bit clunky, and it might as well follow in OP's release footsteps as being OPOP for quite a while.
    > *footsteps edit cause it was more of a mixture of it and foodstamps

    Here's the thing tho, you can't run hardcore VoS with mediocre gear. And also, not everyone just plays a paladin to be needed, some people actually enjoy paladin healing
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 666 Arc User
    Yeah, thats right - but it cuts down the time you need to grind for a good toon A LOT. And there has been a lot of p2w aspects lately, more and more everyday even.
    - bye bye -
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,375 Arc User
    I find vos with OP shields good. When the douchbag 2nd boss turns on us we can actually survive the hit with OP shields. I'm not sure how the pure heal side of OP is in there though(no shield OP setup).

    If mechanics are played and ppl know what they are doing, it's not terrible for the healer. A prime example of this is the last boss. In 3rd golem how many stack up on the boss for hypo and just eat the black hole, hypo, then scramble to get out of the red wifi signal? Most in my experience. Did you know there is another way? 3 dps + heals can back out of wifi range and take hypo together and the black hole will explode while your going back in to do damage. You avoid ALL of that damage expect the actual hypo and take the pressure off your healer.

    As for playing the OP, I really enjoyed playing OP heals. I built an OP specifically to heal. She's 51k now.
  • ron#1747 ron Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    > @reg1981 said:
    > I find vos with OP shields good. When the douchbag 2nd boss turns on us we can actually survive the hit with OP shields. I'm not sure how the pure heal side of OP is in there though(no shield OP setup).
    >
    > If mechanics are played and ppl know what they are doing, it's not terrible for the healer. A prime example of this is the last boss. In 3rd golem how many stack up on the boss for hypo and just eat the black hole, hypo, then scramble to get out of the red wifi signal? Most in my experience. Did you know there is another way? 3 dps + heals can back out of wifi range and take hypo together and the black hole will explode while your going back in to do damage. You avoid ALL of that damage expect the actual hypo and take the pressure off your healer.
    >
    > As for playing the OP, I really enjoyed playing OP heals. I built an OP specifically to heal. She's 51k now.

    But this is regular VoS. I'm talking about the announced HC VoS, and about how, if it'll be balanced to be a challenge for cleric/warlock healers, it might be too much for the paladin healers
  • miraclegaming#9971 miraclegaming Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    I would really love the big pp blue temp shields back from OPs, at least adjust it to half health would be awesome. Currently, it's terrible right now and most mechanics in endgame trials and dungeons crit a lot. It takes the fun out of the game. I suspect they want more profit on Scroll of Life and Health Stones.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 890 Arc User
    Just run 1 tank, 2 DPS and 2 healers in HC VoS.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    wilbur626 said:

    Just run 1 tank, 2 DPS and 2 healers in HC VoS.

    eww 2 heals
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    anyone tried using bloodtheft weapon enchantment? xD
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