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  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,041 Arc User

    regenerde said:

    Well, i doubt they were pumping ZEN into the ZAX at any point, i mean that would have come out eventually, and people would have stopped buying ZEN with $$$ directly, not to mention how they "handled" the whole ARC Quests for ZEN thing, saying that it would return in an improved way for PC, but after 3 years i think it's pretty clear that's not going to happen.

    Still sitting on 4k ARC points...

    Besides, if they really wanted to drain huge amounts of AD from the game, all they've to do is pick something from the options we are suggesting here or in any other thread on this topic and run with it.

    I was talking about long long time ago, way before Arc quest for Zen.
    Well, my point would be that i find it hard to believe they would ever do something like that, considering the possible outcome that players would stop spending money for ZEN, and what they did with ARC Quests.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    regenerde said:

    regenerde said:

    Well, i doubt they were pumping ZEN into the ZAX at any point, i mean that would have come out eventually, and people would have stopped buying ZEN with $$$ directly, not to mention how they "handled" the whole ARC Quests for ZEN thing, saying that it would return in an improved way for PC, but after 3 years i think it's pretty clear that's not going to happen.

    Still sitting on 4k ARC points...

    Besides, if they really wanted to drain huge amounts of AD from the game, all they've to do is pick something from the options we are suggesting here or in any other thread on this topic and run with it.

    I was talking about long long time ago, way before Arc quest for Zen.
    Well, my point would be that i find it hard to believe they would ever do something like that, considering the possible outcome that players would stop spending money for ZEN, and what they did with ARC Quests.
    I don't believe they can print Zen. I would love this to be confirmed or denied by an official source, but I doubt it will happen. I have expressed before, it is my understanding, the cash flow works from PW to Cryptic. When you pay Arc Games, your monies leave the US and Europe bound for China. Perfect World collects from Arc Games, Perfect World Pictures, etc. they give them an allowance to spend. This is just standard business practices.

    Not only would printing Zen and giving it away to the free player base be bad for sales, it could get them into hot water with their parent company. There is no reason for them to print Zen and hand it out secretly or on the table. At one point in the past, I wanted to give Cryptic Studios money, but you cannot invest directly into their company, they really don't own it.

    You would have to give your money to Perfect World and hope they would invest it into the game division. Even then the game division is not solely Cryptic Studios, by the time your monies comes down to Cryptic is gets divided into all 4 games under their studio. If you paid $100 for Zen, that Zen could be split 3 ways (minimum by PW). For simplicity, let's say the divisions are equal shares, the game division gets $33, the game company shows a total of 8 subsidiaries but let's assume Cryptic Studios gets the lion's share of 50% or $17. At this point, the remaining $17 is divided up into wages and operations for the 4 games.

    I have to go play now. :heart:
    wb-cenders.gif
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited April 2021
    ZEN is not equal money. Income is directed to wherever they want, but income is not measured in ZEN. In NW terms ZEN is just a database number, with some simple process where that numbers is increased after a player completed some real money transaction.

    Fulfilling ZAX listings or just giving away ZEN is trivial and doesn't involve PWE or any other factor on the technical level. If they can make that decision or not, that's a chain of command question.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,176 Arc User
    edited April 2021
    micky1p00 said:



    First, the fact that pugs didn't get ZEN in 5 months doesn't mean they bought ViP.
    Second, most players are f2p. So in advance it's improbable that most players pay for ViP with cash.


    fact?
    A fact is something that has occurred or is actually the case. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability; that is, whether it can be proven. An assumption, on the other hand, is a belief without proof.


    Since you have no access to players database and verify who and how they get ZEN, all your facts are just assumptions.

    And thats why there is no point to talk with you.

    ===========================================


    Now as for rest of thread topic.. If truly want to solve ZAX problem, then it's only one way,, ONE.

    And the way would be similar to what EVE online developers did. They hired Market and economy expert as consultant, gave game data, and then listened his thoughts and opinions..

    The best part of it, is that person where outsider, and he had no bias, all his opinions and claims where simply from neutral view point.

    And thats what need to do here in Neverwintenter. Someone outside of game community to look to this game data and tell facts. Not assumptions, but real facts.




    P.s I wrote my comment, I am not interesting debate here. But I know one thing, fixing this problem will not please some players.

    So there for, need to finall decide which path all goes. Fixing = no pleasing some players.
    Or not fixing and, well no need end this line. All knows how it will end.
    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,041 Arc User
    Well, why hire some extern consultant, when they know pretty well what their options are? I mean it's not like they have no own ideas on how to fix this mess, or that there isn't more then enough player feedback on this topic...

    "When you want to insert a nail into a piece of wood, don't do anything fancy or glamorous. Just take the damn hammer and hit the son of a HAMSTER until it's in."
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,182 Arc User
    If they consider this is a problem, they can fix it easily. If they consider there is no problem, there is nothing to be 'fixed'.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited April 2021

    micky1p00 said:



    First, the fact that pugs didn't get ZEN in 5 months doesn't mean they bought ViP.
    Second, most players are f2p. So in advance it's improbable that most players pay for ViP with cash.


    fact?
    A fact is something that has occurred or is actually the case. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability; that is, whether it can be proven. An assumption, on the other hand, is a belief without proof.


    Since you have no access to players database and verify who and how they get ZEN, all your facts are just assumptions.

    And thats why there is no point to talk with you.

    LoL, those were your own claims:


    Information based on players with whom I spoke when I doing random q stuffs with pugs. Not alliance, members, but with pugs. Thats mean casual/ random players..

    Also I didn't say that all, get VIP by paying for real. But the majority pugs I met and spoke. Some waited 6 months, some 4 months till they managet get zen via ZAX.


    I guess I need to repeat few lines from previous comment..

    First thing, do you think most players obtained VIP by getting zen from ZAX? If you think in such way, then I am sorry to dissapoint you. That's not how it is. Very very very few got it, some more lucky some less lucky.. Some waited 6 month to get 1k zen so they could buy VIP. Do you think all players waited all this time? No. They paid for ZEN with own real money.

    So why don't we quit this illusion.?


    Remove VIP from zen store, add to website.. You want VIP, pay for it, and for real.

    And lets quit this illusion that players get their VIP's via ZAX. Majority players pay real cash for zen, which spend for VIP. So it will not change anything.
    Other thing, last week our alliance congratulated one of member, who got ZEN via ZAX. For which he apply in october, last year. So if math not lie, it;s more than 5 month waiting.

    So you mean that your claims are untrue? And in those cases of the pugs you claim you talked too they didn't wait 5 months.. Or you dispute your own claim that ZAX takes about 5 months now?
  • blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    ZEN is not equal money. Income is directed to wherever they want, but income is not measured in ZEN. In NW terms ZEN is just a database number, with some simple process where that numbers is increased after a player completed some real money transaction.

    Fulfilling ZAX listings or just giving away ZEN is trivial and doesn't involve PWE or any other factor on the technical level. If they can make that decision or not, that's a chain of command question.

    In 2012, the European Central Bank (ECB) defined virtual currency as "a type of unregulated, digital money, which is issued and usually controlled by its developers, and used and accepted among the members of a specific virtual community". For proof you can find it in this PDF file - https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/virtualcurrencyschemes201210en.pdf

    In 2013, US Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), a bureau of the US Treasury, in contrast to its regulations defining currency as "the coin and paper money of the United States or of any other country that is designated as legal tender and that circulates and is customarily used and accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance", also called "real currency" by FinCEN, defined virtual currency as "a medium of exchange that operates like a currency in some environments, but does not have all the attributes of real currency".

    The IRS decided in March 2014, to treat bitcoin and other virtual currencies as property for tax purposes, but not as currency.

    So this is a matter of opinion, depending on which governmental body you are speaking about. Zen is as real as Bitcoin or Google Play gift cards, while the US says it is not real currency they are more than willing to tax you for it. Zen is one way digital currency, meaning I can legally convert US dollars to Zen but I am not allowed to convert the other direction. However we all know there is a black market more than willing to buy Zen for less than face value. Therefore can be converted back to "real money" for a small loss, assuming you paid anything for it at all.

    Just killing time...
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User

    What if they tracked purchases between Zen bought w/ ca$h & Zen from the ZAX?

    • Cash bought Zen can buy anything, and it would all be unbound.
    • ZAX bought Zen would have a more limited selection, specifically lockbox keys can not be bought, and everything else would be BTA.
    Too much extra work and two types of identical currencies.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,182 Arc User


    So this is a matter of opinion, depending on which governmental body you are speaking about. Zen is as real as Bitcoin or Google Play gift cards, while the US says it is not real currency they are more than willing to tax you for it. Zen is one way digital currency, meaning I can legally convert US dollars to Zen but I am not allowed to convert the other direction. However we all know there is a black market more than willing to buy Zen for less than face value. Therefore can be converted back to "real money" for a small loss, assuming you paid anything for it at all.

    Personally, I don't know a way to transfer Zen to a specific player. At least, I could not imagine a way within NW. May be another Cryptic game can do it.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited April 2021

    micky1p00 said:

    ZEN is not equal money. Income is directed to wherever they want, but income is not measured in ZEN. In NW terms ZEN is just a database number, with some simple process where that numbers is increased after a player completed some real money transaction.

    Fulfilling ZAX listings or just giving away ZEN is trivial and doesn't involve PWE or any other factor on the technical level. If they can make that decision or not, that's a chain of command question.

    In 2012, the European Central Bank (ECB) defined virtual currency as "a type of unregulated, digital money, which is issued and usually controlled by its developers, and used and accepted among the members of a specific virtual community". For proof you can find it in this PDF file - https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/virtualcurrencyschemes201210en.pdf

    In 2013, US Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), a bureau of the US Treasury, in contrast to its regulations defining currency as "the coin and paper money of the United States or of any other country that is designated as legal tender and that circulates and is customarily used and accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance", also called "real currency" by FinCEN, defined virtual currency as "a medium of exchange that operates like a currency in some environments, but does not have all the attributes of real currency".

    The IRS decided in March 2014, to treat bitcoin and other virtual currencies as property for tax purposes, but not as currency.

    So this is a matter of opinion, depending on which governmental body you are speaking about. Zen is as real as Bitcoin or Google Play gift cards, while the US says it is not real currency they are more than willing to tax you for it. Zen is one way digital currency, meaning I can legally convert US dollars to Zen but I am not allowed to convert the other direction. However we all know there is a black market more than willing to buy Zen for less than face value. Therefore can be converted back to "real money" for a small loss, assuming you paid anything for it at all.
    zen is not virtual currency like bitcoin or anything else. it's an in game currency. the same as buying a pack directly from the microsoft store but they attach a name to it and let you buy diamonds or whatever thing they offer with it. it's not the same thing at all/. you don't own it and you cannot legally pass it to someone else.
  • blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    Depending on their interaction with traditional, “real” money and the real economy, virtual currency schemes can be classified into three types: Type 1, which is used to refer to closed virtual currency schemes, basically used in an online game; Type 2 virtual currency schemes have a unidirectional flow (usually an inflow), i.e. there is a conversion rate for purchasing the virtual currency, which can subsequently be used to buy virtual goods and services, but exceptionally also to buy real goods and services; and Type 3 virtual currency schemes have bidirectional flows, i.e. the virtual currency in this respect acts like any other convertible currency, with two exchange rates (buy and sell), which can subsequently be used to buy virtual goods and services, but also to purchase real goods and services. Pg 6 paragraph 3... yeah like anyone bothered to read it.

    Later on page 13, the ECB cites and example using WoW.

    Example: World of Warcraft (WoW) Gold is a virtual currency used in this well-known online role-playing game designed by Blizzard Entertainment. Players have different options (with different subscription fees) for opening an account and starting to play. WoW Gold is needed as a means of exchange in the game, for instance in order for players to equip themselves well enough to reach higher levels. Players have several opportunities to earn WoW Gold within the game. Buying and selling WoW Gold in the real world is strictly forbidden under the terms and conditions established by Blizzard Entertainment.
    1 However, there seems to be a black market for buying and selling WoW Gold outside the virtual currency scheme. If Blizzard Entertainment discovers any illegal exchange, it can suspend or ban a player’s account.


    When banks are writing up 55 page documents to define this as a type of currency, it is currency. When the IRS says, it is not a currency but a taxable asset, it has serious value. If you went to the IRS this, April and reported you own virtual currency, I bet dollars to donuts, all sorts of questions would get asked. Virtual currency is the new hiding spot for rich men to stash their cash.

    @plasticbat it is not my intention to tell anyone how to convert Zen to cash, but it could be done. I will have to leave it at that because I don't want this sent off to oblivion. Bottom line, it don't matter what they name it, virtual goods, VR coins, or Inet Diamonds, if they can be bought for cash they are currency.

    Just killing time...
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited April 2021
    You missed the point, which was that PWE doesn't split ZEN by some scheme among its subsidiaries. The same way it doesn't pay in ZEN salaries, IT services, infrastructure, utilities and so on. They get the actual currency you pay with (Dollar, Euro, Ruble, Real, and so on), convert it or not to one, like Dollars, take a cut as a publisher, and transfer it to Cryptic.

    Obviously Cryptic has the full information of which game makes what and in what region, what's the conversion rates, and any other information that should help them monetize better but that's very far from PWE budgeting via ZEN.

    The bottom line is that Cryptic if they really wish can inject as much currency as they want, it's not regulatory or technical issue, as you yourself confirmed in the links. Their income is not defined by how much ZEN they get, but by how much real money players spend which is not the same.

    More so note:
    A closed virtual currency scheme (Type 1) which focuses on a specific virtual community (e.g. an online game) is not relevant from a central bank’s perspective. This kind of scheme is a simple adaptation of traditional games to suit the online world and, therefore, can be quickly disregarded in this context.


    To the point it evolved into, in terms of NW mops/wards (and previously keys) stand better to the definition of currency than ZEN.

    Gold in WoW is a tradable currency, I give you gold, you give me fish, I give you chicken you give me 5 gold. ZEN is not tradable. That will be akin to AD, but not ZEN. The ability to convert ZEN to AD doesn't make them interchangeable as a concept in this context.
    Post edited by micky1p00 on
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    By God, @micky1p00 you would make a damn good politician with all the double talk. Monies, cash money is split up between the subsidiaries from the cash sales of Zen a virtual currency. According the the bank document, that I just took the time to read, PWE Zen is classified as a type 2 virtual currency. Type 1 is no money is spent to gain the currency, as in WoW. Although type 1 is locked within the virtual community, there is still a black market that sells it. Wards, Marks of Potency, and Astral Diamonds fall into this type 1. I don't know if you are obtuse about the facts or just stubborn, but all business works the same way.

    In the simplest of terms, if you go to a restaurant and pay the cashier or waiter, do you think for one minute they pocket all the money? Of course not, they put the money in the register, which is later recorded and deposited into the bank by the manager. If the restaurant is privately owned the money spilt up to pay wages by the owner, food and supplies, pay bills, etc.. Otherwise, if the restaurant is a large franchise, money is sent to pay the franchise for food and supplies, and there is a payment just for being owned by the franchise. If this restaurant was a subsidiary of a larger company, the accounting for cash flow at some point needs to be reported or sent to accounting at the parent company. Arc or Steam is your waiter and Cryptic is the cook making your meal in all these scenarios.

    The direct sales of Zen is how Arc and Steam get the player their virtual currency. You seem to think Cryptic, Arc, and Steam can exist on thin air. Zen don't matter, they can just make it up. The head waiter and the cook see their buddies come in and give them a free meal. But is the meal free? The cook and waiter better be able to pick up the check, or management will have a new cook and head waiter working next week.

    I have told everyone here, not one of us know the cash flow, but we are not the IRS, we are not their accountants. But there are common business practices at work here, if you don't understand these practices, I suggest you study them.

    While I understand what @blargskull is driving at, WoW gold, Zen, Bitcoin, and other virtual currency, is not recognized as legal tender by the US Treasury, and I don't live in Europe.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • spelldazerspelldazer Member Posts: 315 Arc User
    Xbox just got a free add on that gives 200zen per account. And you can have several accounts. They have done this before. Seems to me like someone knows how to inject zen into the economy. Just sayin.

    And, to state the obvious, Cryptic *could* set up accounts that are run by them for the sole purpose of tweaking the economy by either buying out AD or injecting zen into the zax (e.g., printing money).
  • eladonwarps#6040 eladonwarps Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    Just as an info note: STO players who have ever purchased the 1-time Lifetime Subscription receive 500 ZEN per month, for free. Essentially that Zen is just created and deposited, always on the very day of the month that person bought their LTS. My wife and I each have an LTS account and we always get our monthly stipend.

    The ZAX on that game is still not at the 500:1 cap, and refining is still by character capped at 8000 daily, not per account.

    Essentially that is an economy that does print out Zen. And I attest that the big difference is that the player goods-trade Auction House uses vendor currency instead of Refinable currency.

    So that's an example where it can be done.
    Call me El, she/her only. Currently Professions-only until the next combat change fixes this mess.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited April 2021

    Just as an info note: STO players who have ever purchased the 1-time Lifetime Subscription receive 500 ZEN per month, for free. Essentially that Zen is just created and deposited, always on the very day of the month that person bought their LTS. My wife and I each have an LTS account and we always get our monthly stipend.


    The ZAX on that game is still not at the 500:1 cap, and refining is still by character capped at 8000 daily, not per account.


    Essentially that is an economy that does print out Zen. And I attest that the big difference is that the player goods-trade Auction House uses vendor currency instead of Refinable currency.


    So that's an example where it can be done.

    interesting I wonder if that's what they're thinking about. giving everyone with vip a stipend of zen would probably lower the backlog and would probably get people to buy vip
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,182 Arc User

    Just as an info note: STO players who have ever purchased the 1-time Lifetime Subscription receive 500 ZEN per month, for free. Essentially that Zen is just created and deposited, always on the very day of the month that person bought their LTS. My wife and I each have an LTS account and we always get our monthly stipend.


    The ZAX on that game is still not at the 500:1 cap, and refining is still by character capped at 8000 daily, not per account.


    Essentially that is an economy that does print out Zen. And I attest that the big difference is that the player goods-trade Auction House uses vendor currency instead of Refinable currency.


    So that's an example where it can be done.

    interesting I wonder if that's what they're thinking about. giving everyone with vip a stipend of zen would probably lower the backlog and would probably get people to buy vip
    VIP is bought with Zen. If VIP gives out Zen, it just means lower the price of VIP. If you mean taking VIP out from Zen store and cash purchase only, ok but it will have many upset players.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited April 2021

    Just as an info note: STO players who have ever purchased the 1-time Lifetime Subscription receive 500 ZEN per month, for free. Essentially that Zen is just created and deposited, always on the very day of the month that person bought their LTS. My wife and I each have an LTS account and we always get our monthly stipend.


    The ZAX on that game is still not at the 500:1 cap, and refining is still by character capped at 8000 daily, not per account.


    Essentially that is an economy that does print out Zen. And I attest that the big difference is that the player goods-trade Auction House uses vendor currency instead of Refinable currency.


    So that's an example where it can be done.

    interesting I wonder if that's what they're thinking about. giving everyone with vip a stipend of zen would probably lower the backlog and would probably get people to buy vip
    VIP is bought with Zen. If VIP gives out Zen, it just means lower the price of VIP. If you mean taking VIP out from Zen store and cash purchase only, ok but it will have many upset players.
    good point, I didn't think too hard on that did I :)

    I've always said that I think they're shooting themselves in the foot for not charging a bit of money a month for zen or having a secondary vip that costs real money or an alternative vip.


    granted if they switched over entirely to a cash model for vip they would lose a lot of people. I know I wouldn't buy it. I would have at one point but I"m barely in this game at this point. the value just isn't there because I'm not really playing anymore. from what I hear around me I think a lot are in that spot
    Post edited by thefiresidecat on
  • acrinicusacrinicus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    This is one of the most bizarre threads I've ever read of armchair economics and referencing decades old sources and case studies to support a rapidly evolving field of inquiry in finance.

    An NWO forum is probably one of the last places I would go to learn of the theoretical complexities and overlaps between closed systems of virtual currencies and open systems of digital ones (like bitcoin), but it makes for great entertainment.

    Hades idea of consulting an expert (and perhaps not these forums) seems reasonable.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,041 Arc User
    Well, that's not going to happen unless he pays that expert out of his own pocket... and even then i doubt that the Devs are going to listen to any suggestions based on the report.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User

    Just as an info note: STO players who have ever purchased the 1-time Lifetime Subscription receive 500 ZEN per month, for free. Essentially that Zen is just created and deposited, always on the very day of the month that person bought their LTS. My wife and I each have an LTS account and we always get our monthly stipend.


    The ZAX on that game is still not at the 500:1 cap, and refining is still by character capped at 8000 daily, not per account.


    Essentially that is an economy that does print out Zen. And I attest that the big difference is that the player goods-trade Auction House uses vendor currency instead of Refinable currency.


    So that's an example where it can be done.

    Star Trek and Champions were set up that way from the start. Neverwinter never was set up for that.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Just as an info note: STO players who have ever purchased the 1-time Lifetime Subscription receive 500 ZEN per month, for free. Essentially that Zen is just created and deposited, always on the very day of the month that person bought their LTS. My wife and I each have an LTS account and we always get our monthly stipend.


    The ZAX on that game is still not at the 500:1 cap, and refining is still by character capped at 8000 daily, not per account.


    Essentially that is an economy that does print out Zen. And I attest that the big difference is that the player goods-trade Auction House uses vendor currency instead of Refinable currency.


    So that's an example where it can be done.

    Star Trek and Champions were set up that way from the start. Neverwinter never was set up for that.
    yet the reason I created this thread is because of an offhand comment that says we can expect systemic changes to zen. (and I'd really like to know what those are going to be, it's been a month or two now since that comment was made) it's not impossible that they plan on changing things in a drastic fashion. I mean, would you have thought they'd have hoarked the economy the way they have in general 6 months ago? they seem to be willing to make any change, regardless of upset.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    acrinicus said:

    This is one of the most bizarre threads I've ever read of armchair economics and referencing decades old sources and case studies to support a rapidly evolving field of inquiry in finance.


    An NWO forum is probably one of the last places I would go to learn of the theoretical complexities and overlaps between closed systems of virtual currencies and open systems of digital ones (like bitcoin), but it makes for great entertainment.


    Hades idea of consulting an expert (and perhaps not these forums) seems reasonable.


    this is like a yearly conversation here. iirc they've been longer and more heated in the past but everyone is bored with it I think. I just want to know what the upcoming changes will be. I actually didn't expect this to spur a five page debate.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,489 Arc User
    edited April 2021


    this is like a yearly conversation here. iirc they've been longer and more heated in the past but everyone is bored with it I think. I just want to know what the upcoming changes will be. I actually didn't expect this to spur a five page debate.

    I can certainly give you a partial answer to that:
    In order to force more players to inject Zen into game and increase Cryptic's income, it will be harder to obtain Zen(or Zen-purchased goods) by other means than buying it for real money.

    Be careful what you ask for, you might get it.

    And if I were to guess: They will make all items in Zen store resellable for AD(including VIP, bank slots and character slots), and just remove the ZAX. That will increase the value of the Zen hugely, while still giving the f2p players access to the Zen goods but at a very inflated price.

    But with the way ZAX is developing now, it actually might be the better solution also for the f2p players. Since the value of Zen on AH is so far ahead of the official ZAX exchange ratio, less and less Zen is being sold on the ZAX, which makes is very difficult for f2p players to get VIP, bank slots and character slots.

    Either way game is becoming less and less attractive for f2p players.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User


    yet the reason I created this thread is because of an offhand comment that says we can expect systemic changes to zen. (and I'd really like to know what those are going to be, it's been a month or two now since that comment was made) it's not impossible that they plan on changing things in a drastic fashion. I mean, would you have thought they'd have hoarked the economy the way they have in general 6 months ago? they seem to be willing to make any change, regardless of upset.

    Kind of like the offhand reassurance we were given that wards wouldn't be leaving the tradebar merchant?
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    Systemic diseases effect the whole body or multiple organs, maybe this is what they meant by systemic changes to zen? :trollface: Anytime I hear a developer using words that I have to look up in a dictionary... ok it is a medical dictionary... I get to thinking they didn't rehearse how they would best phrase what they are not trying to tell you.

    So who was it that used that phrase??

    Just killing time...
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited April 2021

    Systemic diseases effect the whole body or multiple organs, maybe this is what they meant by systemic changes to zen? :trollface: Anytime I hear a developer using words that I have to look up in a dictionary... ok it is a medical dictionary... I get to thinking they didn't rehearse how they would best phrase what they are not trying to tell you.

    So who was it that used that phrase??

    there were no quotes on it. it was paraphrased. I do not believe those exact words were used. and it was whiteside
  • thany#4351 thany Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited April 2021
    We can write here whatever we want but even content creator program is in ruins. We can watch only that ones who dare not to say anything bad about this "holy" game, but even them are less than before. There is no videos/interview with Chris on twitch. Roadmap is paste tense but we can't get new one. No players... Etc... And you/we expect solution ? This game is in so bad shape that zax is not a problem right now. Not even a minor one.
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