test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Changes to Zax

2456

Comments

  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    The part about possibly changing the ZAX was mentioned in passing on one of the combat rework livestreams. I do not remember which one it was though.

    They do need to add more AD sources for strictly solo players, especially now that they have removed one of the few sources that were in the game. Yes Arcane Reservoir only gave 6,750 AD at max once a week, but for solo only players that was useful.

    they need to remove ad from the world desperately at this point. the problem isn't solo players needing more ways to get ad it's fixing the market so things are at a reasonable balance between in game earned ad including that from drops and ad sinks. more ad brought into the world just means prices go higher and the things those players need just becomes more unaffordable.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,043 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    Well, prices for new account-wide legendary/mythic mounts are actually going down with the release of every new lockbox, which means even a new player can build up towards a good mount bolster % over time. I'm still trying to get the new mounts from new lockboxes through daily lockbox keys i've banked before, but most of the time i end up buying new mythic mounts from the AH when the prices have dropped. No point in wasting Mount Upgrade Tokens on a single character, when you can get account-wide mythic mounts directly... been there, done that.

    And they could reduce the rough AD payout for everything above the normal Random Dungeon Queue, since they'e already nerfed that one before, and instead add some decent tradable equipment drops to all reward chests, selling those items through the AH should drain some AD from the game. And adding new companions, that are worth upgrading, should also help.

    Anyway, the real problem here're the vague statements or simple silent from the official side, players can provide feedback all day long, but without at least some official replies to those, what's the point?
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    IIRC the mention was of Zen rework, not ZAX. While the first may include the second or some other significant changes I don't see how it implies the removal of the ZAX. (it may be an option but I don't see any hint of that)
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    IIRC the mention was of Zen rework, not ZAX. While the first may include the second or some other significant changes I don't see how it implies the removal of the ZAX. (it may be an option but I don't see any hint of that)

    no worries has championed it in the past. I think, but am unsure, that it may have been something whiteside mentioned in a cdp as a possibility at one point as well. I never said, they said they were going to remove the zax or redo the zax even but changing zen implies a potential change to the zax as well as it's all part of the same system.

    but given the unclear wording and intent to change the system dramatically, I'd just really like a denial (or affirmative if that's how it is) of removal of the zax.


    given the way this game has been going.. I just want to know for sure. I honestly am on hold as far as doing any spending whatsoever. Word on the street has been it's likely. word on the street is often wrong. but still, some clarity on the matter would be nice.
  • milehighxr#1299 milehighxr Member Posts: 461 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    If they make VIP cash only they will lose more players than any other single event (imo). The biggest reason for having VIP is to avoid injuries - the free key comes in as a close second. Removing these benefits from everyone except those willing to spend real money will see a huge backlash that will dwarf the mod 16 debacle.

    The free key is #1 for me, no injuries, on demand travel sign, bank, seal trader, are number 2. I would love to be able to exchange half my reroll tokens for legendary dragon keys. I have well over 1000 reroll tokens on multiple toons, and I can't use them fast enough.
  • milehighxr#1299 milehighxr Member Posts: 461 Arc User

    greywynd said:

    For not existing they certainly take up enough inventory space.

    I see you are holding on to those chickens Juma sold you. He is a demon and has a tendency to lie. Collecting 300 chickens doesn't give you the Legendary Sword of Chickens +1... I know, I tried.
    I think they should make it so you can trade in 10 chickens for an instance wide 10% xp boost chicken soup
    I would kill to be able to trade the vanity pets. I have no use for them. I have enough of the dumb currency from Undermountain to buy the ones from Zok, but I won't until they're tradeable, or I can at least sell them for gold.
  • milehighxr#1299 milehighxr Member Posts: 461 Arc User

    Hello @thefiresidecat I have just been playing New Sharandar on the weekends, a few hours on two weekends has me at 300, By Monday it ends for me and I doubt it will even be another weekend before I finish up the campaign. This thin campaign schedule, plus the open beta testing announcement, should tell people the obvious. They don't plan to ditch the ZAX here, they plan to place this whole game aside. It will now cater to the weekend soldiers and the loyalists. That announcement means by June or July Magic is coming, they want everyone there and not here. I imagine just after the 8th anniversary here, you will see all these people flood out to play on Magic.

    Yes, without the ZAX the AH, becomes the ZAX. You would see massive inflation on items purchased in the Zen store and sold in the AH. I don't think Julia is going to answer (even assuming she knows) I have noticed a tendency for her to just pop in and do her announcements. I believe there are many developers praying and rubbing their lucky rabbit's foot, for Magic to be a huge success. If Magic fails, they will need this game for another 4 to 5 years as a financial crutch.

    This is all speculation and guess work on my part but some stems from what they have done in the past. Maybe the new changes to the ZAX will be a global exchange for all 4 games... yes that would be horrible. Neverwinter's deficiency would be absorbed into the new Magic (assuming it has one), STO and CO working exchanges and backlog spreads out across all 4 games. To implement the new GAX? they would need a global currency. Questionite, Dilithium, and Astral Diamonds would be used to purchase the new Global Exchange currency... at what rate? 100:1 maybe? This would mean 750K AD on the GAX is now worth 7,500 AD. Yes, I could see Cryptic doing that instead of anything that would make any sense at all. I don't want to see it happen, but stupid happens.

    Keep on having fun! :heart:

    magic is not like neverwinter its a isometric game. totally different audience imo than the neverwinter audience.
    My opinion too, as I have no intention of even trying Magic. It's not my cup of tea...
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited March 2021

    My opinion? Remove ZAX. Why?

    People buying Zen with AD right now, even if it takes long, will get more AD than they put in from the Zen they exchanged. It creates a loop of inflation.
    Right now not 1000:1 would help but 3000:1 - why?

    A short scenario:
    1. I sold enough astral diamonds to buy 15000 Zen and eventually got it.
    2. The Zen I put into keys.
    3. From opened keys I get:
    - mount tokens (x10)
    - companion tokens (x10)
    - insignia/enchants
    - packs
    - trade bars
    4. I sell almost everything I can. From around 140 keys I can get over 10000 trade bars - I exchange those for r15 enchants of high value during trade bar sale, then sell when the prices go back to normal.
    5. Some time later from 11.25 million AD invested I have over 30 million.
    6. I put in orders for another 15k Zen...

    And my guess is that prices will just go up since 3000:1 to make ZAX profitable once again.

    Proposed alternative solution:
    Exchange ratio needs to go up 3000:1.
    Remove AD to Zen.
    Add ZenX or whatever it'd be called - Zen bought through AD exchange would be converted into this, resulting in all items you get from Zen store for this type of Zen to be BtA.
    That includes lockbox items.
    Make trade bar items BtA.



    raising the price of the xchange will do nothing except make the problems worse. it will cause more hyper inflation and the backlog will just adjust to the new limit. it will make things absolutely unaffordable for the new players. it's a bad bad bad idea. . and you arent creating ad by buying things from the tb store and selling them. that ad was already present in the world. ad is being created thru things like the bonding stone trade in. the bonding store trade in single handedly ruined the xbox zax. in one day we went from no backlog to hyper inflation. ad is only created when it's the system that gives it to you. not when another player buys something from you.

    the fix at this point is to put a time limit on the bonding exchange for ad. give it like another week or something and then make it trade in only. the way they should have done it instead of for ad is for non bound trade in for other runestones and thats what they should do instead of ad going forward.

    and include a HAMSTER ton of worth while ad sinks. maybe sell tbs for ad. more sales on the wonderous bazaar, add more things to the wonderous bazaar. transmutes and the like.

    master crafting has a bunch of ad sinks and master crafters tend to have a lot of ad. making crafting worthwhile again would help a lot. they could also add more crafting sinks
  • unknowndramaunknowndrama Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 115 Arc User
    My sugestions that can fix this is :
    1-Make the game buy to play whit dlcs like ESO maybe we get better content.
    2-Remove the limit of zen exchange let market set the offert and demand..let the player who use hes own money to buy zen sell it for how much he wants.
    3-Use your own credit card to buy zen ..backlog fixed :open_mouth:



  • datarider#1036 datarider Member Posts: 221 Arc User
    maybe just make able to sell zen on ah :D thats the only thing that will balance it, I think - market economy :D
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User

    maybe just make able to sell zen on ah :D thats the only thing that will balance it, I think - market economy :D

    That would basically be the same as removing the cap on the ZAX.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,043 Arc User
    edited March 2021

    My sugestions that can fix this is :
    1-Make the game buy to play whit dlcs like ESO maybe we get better content.
    2-Remove the limit of zen exchange let market set the offert and demand..let the player who use hes own money to buy zen sell it for how much he wants.
    3-Use your own credit card to buy zen ..backlog fixed :open_mouth:

    1. Reforger's Blessing, you had to buy the pack for being able to play the new Aasimar race

    2. considering that "Gold seller" can create unlimited AD, take a guess who's going to get all the ZEN after a while

    3. no help from support or the devs regarding issues with items bought from the ZEN shop
    3.1 ZEN Charge Promotions not working properly
    3.2 advertisements for new bundles showing wrong information
    3.3 less and less really new content (new class?)
    3.4 "Combat Rework" and no respect for the time and money invested by players
    3.5 some bugs and issues reported over and over again, but still not fixed
    i don't mind spending money on games, but i expect something with worth in return for it...

    maybe just make able to sell zen on ah :D thats the only thing that will balance it, I think - market economy :D

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahrBOvz1jzA
    there won't be any "balance" that way, it would only mean that some players will still get all the ZEN they want, while others won't get anything at all. The ZAX isn't perfect, especially with all the other problems mentioned above, but it's the same for new and veteran players, and no one can take a "shortcut" by simply throwing more AD at it.
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User

    maybe just make able to sell zen on ah :D thats the only thing that will balance it, I think - market economy :D

    That's basically what Warframe does - or did - haven't played in a few years. Only two ways to get Platinum (their version of Zen) either buy it directly from the company, or trade with other players for it. And their economy was in great shape.

    They didn't have an auction house though when I was still playing. Trade was a pain in the neck 'cause it all had to be done in person.
  • blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    Guild Wars - the first one and not the second one - has no auction house players all meet up in the capitol city of Kamadan. There is only 1 currency recognized by the vendors, gold and 1000 gold = 1 platinum, still gold just more of it. Gold is not a cash currency, because there is no cash currency, gold is found by playing the game. It is the grinding currency but GW never gave me the feeling I was grinding at all.

    Players could not cram the platinum into their banks and early on in the game, resorted in trade in Ectoplasm, a very rare drop in The Underworld, used to create a very rare armor. They not only still trade in Ectos but now also in now in Armbrace of Truth. A single Armbrace runs 40 Ectos and 1 Ecto is 13,000 gold or 13 platinum. The players market can be seen live at this link.

    My point is this floating trade market solely operated by the players actually works. The whole economy to this day is player driven prices. If I walked into Kamadan today and asked for price check on rubies or Dhuum's Soul Reaper, I would get a general agreement on what they are worth. If no one knew, I can search that page. It shows me that Dhuum's Scythe was for sale 2 weeks ago for 50 ectos.

    Prices will find a level at which no one will buy them at all, and sellers must lower their price. A game can exist without paid virtual currencies (Zen), without auctions, and all the ZAX was ever meant to do was organize it. If they made VIP and other services cash only, able to be traded to players, you would see some ridiculous high postings for VIP tokens at first, but then people would start buying them at some price level. The level might be 800,000 AD or it might be 2 million AD. It would be up to the buyers and sellers. Cryptic shouldn't care as long as they sell VIP and other services.

    Just killing time...
  • thany#4351 thany Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    I think it's best for all of us if they just don't do anything about this problem... Otherwise we're doomed. It'll be far worse than it's now. Few fency&expensive account mounts/companion for AD only could take a lot of AD. Who has AD they will buy with ad, who hasn't he will buy zen and trade for AD. This is the way :) .
  • kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 668 Arc User
    What he said.^^ Cryptic's track record on making changes and actually improving the situation is dismal.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    IIRC the mention was of Zen rework, not ZAX. While the first may include the second or some other significant changes I don't see how it implies the removal of the ZAX. (it may be an option but I don't see any hint of that)

    Yes, rework the Zen store to put even more great items only available for Zen into it!

    What do you think would happen to the Zen queue in this scenario? :)
  • blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    I come in here and always get a strange sense of deja vu, as if we had this conversation before... countless times. :trollface:

    They cannot dump the Zen because I have been told and shown they are locked in by PWE to sell Zen. If they could ever break free, the best solution is no more Zen and no ZAX. A cash only store that looks like this:



    Then an AD only store to mirror it. Would keep the prices in check. With AD only items that would actually encourage players to spend cash chests of AD or play the game, and earn the AD through grinding it.




    Something I suggested well over a year ago. I guess we will talk and talk about this until the end of time... or the ZAX hits one billion backlog. :disappointed:

    Just killing time...
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,214 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    The chance is if they want to change it, it will:
    - keep Zen (Zen is used in more than one game)
    - get rid of Zax
    - no AD store to mirror.
    - If one wants to buy anything from Zen using AD (indirectly), he needs to use AH. The price in AH will skyrocket.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,259 Arc User
    I dont know what you guys smoke.

    The zen and the ZAX is not going anywhere.

    In case they make any change, they will introduce new items in the zen store and/or wondorous bazaar and/or tarmalune trade bar store or change items from one store to other.

    Also they can bind to account some or all zen store items

    Also they can increase the ZAX ratio.

    Also they can introduce something new that impacts the economy but forget about zen or ZAX dissapearing from the game. That makes 0 sense.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
    Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
  • justkickinitjustkickinit Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    As a player since shortly after beta, and being able to reap the rewards of the 500:1 zax back then, was able to buy VIP with AD, virtually, and also have a cache of AD from the bonding exchange, have had to turn to buying zen to maintain my VIP with real $$. It is the only thing I use zen for in game. By leaving it just the way it is, it forces others to do the same or wait the 4 months for zax, as it will happen eventually.
    If an adjustment were to be made, the only one that makes sense to me, is to, (as others have mentioned) add an AD sink. Offering more items on the bazaar like pwards, or collars, things that rarely drop, would be a way to do it. I for one would gladly spend some AD on collars, especially since they rarely ever drop. I have had only 1 drop since they came about.
    Just my 2 pennies worth.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,214 Arc User
    edited March 2021

    By leaving it just the way it is, it forces others to do the same or wait the 4 months for zax, as it will happen eventually.

    It is already at least 4 months (I posted one on Nov 25 and I have not received it as expected. Today, it is March 25). If one posts it today, it would take ~6 months which was how long it would take when I joined in mod 3.

    I do not see Cryptic has any desire to improve the wait time. They have been step by step moving Zax to have longer and longer wait time steadily in the past year. I have a feeling (conspiracy theory) that they have been staging a big change.

    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,043 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    Well, they do have a track record of going with changes that make no sense, therefore being concerned about what they have in mind regarding the ZAX is rather reasonable.

    I mean removing the Class Packs from the ZEN shop made no sense either, but they did it anyway. Looking at the companion system changes that followed, it would have made more sense to revamp the Class Packs in some way instead. And the same goes for the removal of account-wide extras from ZEN Charge Promotions, sure there were problems with those rewards, but giving your paying customers something extra is a good thing, and they should bring those rewards back.

    Anyway, they're currently giving away some promotion pack for Magic: Legends on Epic, which is nice for those that want to play that game, but no official word about the broken Amazon Prime Bundle for NWO and when we might see it fixed/released. I guess working on something, that might bring more people into NWO, isn't on their to-do-list anymore?
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    From Cryptic's point of view: The only *real* problem with the ZAX today it is a suckers bait for valuable new players that do not know they can get a lot more AD for the Zen by selling items on AH.

    The only people losing out on the long queue is players that do not want to pay real money to game, and those are of less value to Cryptic.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    edited March 2021

    By leaving it just the way it is, it forces others to do the same or wait the 4 months for zax, as it will happen eventually.

    It is already at least 4 months (I posted one on Nov 25 and I have not received it as expected. Today, it is March 25). If one posts it today, it would take ~6 months which was how long it would take when I joined in mod 3.

    I do not see Cryptic has any desire to improve the wait time. They have been step by step moving Zax to have longer and longer wait time steadily in the past year. I have a feeling (conspiracy theory) that they have been staging a big change.

    Technically it is their game, belongs to the company, and they don't need much of an excuse to make really dumb changes. The thing I have noticed about removal of most features in the past, they always claim they were attacked by botters and/or exploiters. I say claim, because while I cannot prove or disprove the statement, they allow rampant amounts to continue elsewhere in the game. In short, if both the Gateway and the Foundry were removed due to these issues, why not the Random Queues? My personal thoughts might sound like (conspiracy theories) but the Gateway was a reason not to log into the game. It allowed weekenders to do profession by cellphone and on the browser from work and school. There was nothing on the Gateway to make it monetized and losing players of the 3D game to the 2D dungeons, made them pull it. If it was being exploited they could have repaired it, but they got rid of the competition instead. IF the Foundry was properly monetized or I would have taken out a small bank loan by now. Long before anyone cried exploit and botting, they pulled the AD rewards. This was not done to remove AD from the economy, but to make well written Foundry missions less than desirable to play. At that point, I started gifting players mounts and companions for playing my quests. I added a virtual version of myself at the end, explained there isn't much worth while in the chest but send me game mail and I will send you something better. Eventually with Foundry authors making the better content (anyone here recall @iandarksword rallying the authors to make the Harper Chronicles series?) they had to pull the plug and kill the competition. I am not saying there wasn't exploits, but they didn't go out of their way to patch them.

    Do I believe the Zen Exchange will be removed? No. But beware, should they ever say, something you enjoy doing is being botted or exploited.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • thany#4351 thany Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    To be honest, this (inflation) prices at AH sink a lot of AD. But, it looks like we need more sink ad options. Not good time for new players at all.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User

    To be honest, this (inflation) prices at AH sink a lot of AD. But, it looks like we need more sink ad options. Not good time for new players at all.

    It is a good time for new players that put AD into game. :)
  • thany#4351 thany Member Posts: 267 Arc User



    It is a good time for new players that put AD into game. :)

    AD or zen ? :)
Sign In or Register to comment.