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Why do you hate tanks?

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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,441 Arc User
    edited March 10
    @redchillismoke#2115 since the combat changes dropped I've made 300 mil without even trying. I know people who have made billions. ad is pretty easy to come by atm. and you do not need to be fully maxed out to have your stats where they need to be anyway. I don't know anyone that pulls out their credit cards to be BIS. Personally, I'm grumpy because you aren't rewarded for being BIS atm. you're rewarded for having a lower il. granted having pets maxed out helps a ton. but it's not necessary. and it's easy to make ad to get there.

    I don't tank.. never will but for my toon i'm bis except for the new hunt gear and tbh I'm better off ditching all my enchants and going to old hunt gear than i am with all my shiny expensive bis gear. I have a hard time believing it's that different for a tank.

    tl:dr you don't need to be bis to be effective with the current scaling in place. you just need to figure out the system and how to get your stats where they need to be. you're actually rewarded for NOT being bis atm unless you need to do the newest stuff and from what I understand about rewards it's not really worth it compared to just doing old content. bis is HE's.

    the best way to make ad is not thru the 100k a day but trading and selling random stuff you get as drops or learning the market and buying low and selling high. save all your pooh drops on a alt. they'll be bis some day. then turn around and trade them later.
    Post edited by thefiresidecat on


  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 743 Arc User
    > @silente07#2597 said:
    > Keep the trolling going.
    >
    > Keep making fun
    >
    > I’m sure it’s helping.
    >
    > No no
    > Really, you’re making a strong case. Mocking here and on discord.
    >
    > Great for the community.

    I’m not mocking, I’m asking questions. I do not share your views. If that makes me a troll, so be it.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 406 Arc User
    I see that the level of discussion is falling and what i don't get from it. Wilbur is testing and suggesting a build that helps players who are only Tank to give it to the day-to-day game and is being attacked by casual players who want to be strong overnight.

    First that if you are casual you will hardly be strong as a BIS player is. Second that you only refines 100k a day and even without the luck of a loot you can do more than that just by taking notice of the game. But all I see is the cry of someone who wants to be strong without playing and who believes that the strongest players are pay2win.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 743 Arc User
    edited March 10
    @vaultingfrog#2497

    All the gear I’m using on my Paladin and Barbarian tanks can be acquired from farming adventure zones.

    To replicate the companions I use, you need to spend 8 gold at the emporium companion vendor and 120000 astral diamonds in the auction house.

    The Undermountain introduction quest provides a very solid weapon set for tanks that can be used all the way to endgame.

    I currently have a grand total of 6 rank 9 enchantments on my paladin, and can comfortably do all my daily quest/queues while saving up for enchants.
    Total investment so far is 200000 AD and 8 gold.

    As I have pointed out before, the only thing lacking is the new players access to information.

    Edit: Adding Indomitable runestones to sage shop to replace bondings would also be extremely helpful for new players
    Elite Whaleboy
  • thany#4351 thany Member Posts: 180 Arc User
    edited March 10
    Wow. This thread escalated. Tank, in randoms, they don't need to be BIS. Far from that. Tank just need to know mechanics and how to position to take dmg, aggro and survive. I never ever left the game after i inspected tank (well not in redq. In rtq i tank so there's no problem with other bad/good tank). But i left after i saw that (s)he just don't know how to tank.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,441 Arc User
    wilbur626 said:

    @vaultingfrog#2497


    All the gear I’m using on my Paladin and Barbarian tanks can be acquired from farming adventure zones.


    To replicate the companions I use, you need to spend 8 gold at the emporium companion vendor and 120000 astral diamonds in the auction house.


    The Undermountain introduction quest provides a very solid weapon set for tanks that can be used all the way to endgame.


    I currently have a grand total of 6 rank 9 enchantments on my paladin, and can comfortably do all my daily quest/queues while saving up for enchants.

    Total investment so far is 200000 AD and 8 gold.


    As I have pointed out before, the only thing lacking is the new players access to information.


    Edit: Adding Indomitable runestones to sage shop to replace bondings would also be extremely helpful for new players

    rank 9 indoms should really drop from the modern lockboxes given the new meta


  • dietzgen#3883 dietzgen Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited March 11
    wilbur626 said:

    @vaultingfrog#2497


    All the gear I’m using on my Paladin and Barbarian tanks can be acquired from farming adventure zones.


    To replicate the companions I use, you need to spend 8 gold at the emporium companion vendor and 120000 astral diamonds in the auction house.


    The Undermountain introduction quest provides a very solid weapon set for tanks that can be used all the way to endgame.


    I currently have a grand total of 6 rank 9 enchantments on my paladin, and can comfortably do all my daily quest/queues while saving up for enchants.

    Total investment so far is 200000 AD and 8 gold.


    As I have pointed out before, the only thing lacking is the new players access to information.


    Edit: Adding Indomitable runestones to sage shop to replace bondings would also be extremely helpful for new players

    If im not wrong this "Paladin" and "Barbarian" you refering to is the one you mention on your video on your response to @armadeonx - which if I'm not wrong, you mention that you got something like 41k Paladin and 37k Barbarian. And here you are, claiming that with that amount of investment (200000 AD and 8 gold) you can get 41k and 37k - I'm just making sure we are playing the same game here.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,441 Arc User

    wilbur626 said:

    @vaultingfrog#2497


    All the gear I’m using on my Paladin and Barbarian tanks can be acquired from farming adventure zones.


    To replicate the companions I use, you need to spend 8 gold at the emporium companion vendor and 120000 astral diamonds in the auction house.


    The Undermountain introduction quest provides a very solid weapon set for tanks that can be used all the way to endgame.


    I currently have a grand total of 6 rank 9 enchantments on my paladin, and can comfortably do all my daily quest/queues while saving up for enchants.

    Total investment so far is 200000 AD and 8 gold.


    As I have pointed out before, the only thing lacking is the new players access to information.


    Edit: Adding Indomitable runestones to sage shop to replace bondings would also be extremely helpful for new players

    If im not wrong this "Paladin" and "Barbarian" you refering to is the one you mention on your video on your response to @armadeonx - which if I'm not wrong, you mention that you got something like 41k Paladin and 37k Barbarian. And here you are, claiming that with that amount of investment (200000 AD and 8 gold) you can get 41k and 37k - I'm just making sure we are playing the same game here.
    I think he meant on top of what you should have already. most people aren't starting from scratch here. some are... but most have a toon built up already


  • dietzgen#3883 dietzgen Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    @thefiresidecat Here are my 2 cents:

    Well if that was the case, if we wanted to put our shoes on a new player perspective we need to create a total new account and test it ourself. If you using a same account with your main then its quite pointless, because you got a bunch of account wide legendary mount and can claim companions from packs you buy. Hey if that was the case my level 45 alt can que on rtq and redq. I mean, with that amount of investment on a new account I doubt if a new level 80 could even reach 25k which is a requirement for RTQ and REDQ.

    I would say I'm jus an average player, creating new account and leveling them up to 80 and can que on RTQ and REDQ is one of my way to get more AD to pimp my main up. So yeah I know how hard it is for new player.

    Back to tank problems.

    IMO, it's true that we got enough arsenal to do the job done, either on group content like dungeons and trial or on normal solo content. But the trade off for that is not equal to the rewards we gain.

    1. On dungeon run everybody wants it smooth, right. No ones likes to die, well maybde some ppl got that tendency, but I think there is not alot of them. Thats why I would say dying because mobs flanking and got crit and ca when our dailies and artifact still on cd is quite silly, and tbh I hate that

    2. As mentioned before some gear that supposedly could help to reduce damage didnt work, for example the earthen sets

    3. Tank sucks on normal content, we can do it, but sucks at it
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,336 Arc User
    wilbur626 said:

    @vaultingfrog#2497


    All the gear I’m using on my Paladin and Barbarian tanks can be acquired from farming adventure zones.


    To replicate the companions I use, you need to spend 8 gold at the emporium companion vendor and 120000 astral diamonds in the auction house.


    The Undermountain introduction quest provides a very solid weapon set for tanks that can be used all the way to endgame.


    I currently have a grand total of 6 rank 9 enchantments on my paladin, and can comfortably do all my daily quest/queues while saving up for enchants.

    Total investment so far is 200000 AD and 8 gold.


    As I have pointed out before, the only thing lacking is the new players access to information.


    Edit: Adding Indomitable runestones to sage shop to replace bondings would also be extremely helpful for new players

    The companions from the vendor are rank 1 and only become worthwhile when you've ranked them up so that's a bit disingenuous. You also didn't mention your account wide Mythic mounts & companions.

    Yes you can get pretty most r9 enchantments for next to nothing now Cryptic have made them worthless, but they do add some item level I guess.



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  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 743 Arc User
    > @dietzgen#3883 said:
    > If im not wrong this "Paladin" and "Barbarian" you refering to is the one you mention on your video on your response to @armadeonx - which if I'm not wrong, you mention that you got something like 41k Paladin and 37k Barbarian. And here you are, claiming that with that amount of investment (200000 AD and 8 gold) you can get 41k and 37k - I'm just making sure we are playing the same game here.

    As you can see in the videos, the paladin is specced as requested by armadenox on PREVIEW. I do not have unlimited resources on live like I do on preview. The Barbarian is 33k, not 37k. If I wrote 37k somewhere, I feel ashamed and will punish myself for that.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 743 Arc User
    > @armadeonx said:
    > The companions from the vendor are rank 1 and only become worthwhile when you've ranked them up so that's a bit disingenuous. You also didn't mention your account wide Mythic mounts & companions.
    >
    > Yes you can get pretty most r9 enchantments for next to nothing now Cryptic have made them worthless, but they do add some item level I guess.

    Ranking up companions and mounts can be done by farming tokens. This is also to be considered zero cost.

    I find it funny that players in these forums ask for a sense of progression of ther toons, while some (you for example) seems to want instant access to all upgrades and content.

    Access to correct information and time is all you need to build an awesome tank. A new player armed with good advice should be more than able to tank the Infernal Citadel and even maybe TOMM after 4 weeks of active gaming.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • drago#3250 drago Member Posts: 190 Arc User

    Wow. This thread escalated. Tank, in randoms, they don't need to be BIS. Far from that. Tank just need to know mechanics and how to position to take dmg, aggro and survive. I never ever left the game after i inspected tank (well not in redq. In rtq i tank so there's no problem with other bad/good tank). But i left after i saw that (s)he just don't know how to tank.

    How often you left a game with only noob DPS in your party?
  • finmakinfinmakin Member Posts: 380 Arc User
    edited March 11
    Remark deleted
    Post edited by finmakin on
    Ogguk Sanctus… Justicar Paladin
    Puny Tank

    Guildleader of NWLC Alpha
  • drago#3250 drago Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    edited March 11

    Wow. This thread escalated. Tank, in randoms, they don't need to be BIS. Far from that. Tank just need to know mechanics and how to position to take dmg, aggro and survive. I never ever left the game after i inspected tank (well not in redq. In rtq i tank so there's no problem with other bad/good tank). But i left after i saw that (s)he just don't know how to tank.

    In scaled content, after combat rework, the level of performance between a BiS tank and a lesser geared tank is not that huge. It is more a question about a proper build.

    Discussion moved away from tank overall performance to whining about gear differences.

    The thing _I_ am unhappy about is that tank performance/survivability is too low, even at the current near-BiS gear. The changes to defense and deflect severity formulas reduced tank damage resistance significantly.
    That is my main concern too. Bad balance. DPS has more damage and I see no disadvantage in surviving if you count in TTK and what is dead cannot harm you. On top of that, if you can blink, you do not even have to kite... I do not live on my isle to see problems to many players. When I did BHE's solo before I do need now many many potions to survive it, my TTK HAMSTER, to slow and reset. This mean the majority of players will only die at it. If you think it work that a tank have to build a party for like everything you forget that the majority of players do not need to do that.
    It is not that easy to demand something while there is no demand by others. Even bad. The party content is cleared faster without a tank(!!!) and ofcourse in this case others will demand 4 HDPS and NOT 3 HDPS + 1 Tank if it is not necessary. Get it.
    Tank can do the content. TBH my solo experience is still easy. Many still have fun. BUT(!!!) There is no point in playing a tank. There is no advantage anymore. It is more expensive to play a tank and I can have it easier playing a DPS. (That is called balance) And I am tired I have way lower performance than a weaker player only because he/she plays DPS and I play a Tank. Before Paladin Nerf I outperformed the majority of DPS players as a Tank. Some other tanks were able to do the same. BUT I never outperformed a real HDPS, no way. It was possible to outperform weak DPS by 4 times, at the same time real top HDPS outperformed me by 4 times. Good balance I think.
    But there was enough complainment about these strong Tanks aim the King and shot the peasant. Now the real top HDPS outperform me by 10 times while is stronger in survivability. This is one of the worst balance I ever saw in any MMO. Stop argue from point of view what is possible to do, without look about TTK, survivability, smoothness, and most important COMPARISON. Humans are lazy by nature. What does the balance tells me nowadays. Switch to DPS to rock?

    I - see - no - point - in - playing - a - tank

    You guys argue everything can be farmed, everything can be done. Fair. True. But for many tanks is not fun. Wilbur shown it is possible. But did not shown what he can do with DPS in same situation. It is true there is not that much impact of having TIL. And?

    That does not mean we have to be happy with what we get only because it is possible.

    Play DPS more is possible. Understand it.

    If Tank remain with that bad TTK, nerf survivability of DPS. No???? BOOOOH.
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,086 Arc User

    Wow. This thread escalated. Tank, in randoms, they don't need to be BIS. Far from that. Tank just need to know mechanics and how to position to take dmg, aggro and survive. I never ever left the game after i inspected tank (well not in redq. In rtq i tank so there's no problem with other bad/good tank). But i left after i saw that (s)he just don't know how to tank.

    How often you left a game with only noob DPS in your party?
    Every tong run
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    edited March 11
    It is obviously that this discussion was derailed.
    The Firesidecat and Mushelka should be shadowbanned for trolling. The first one said "silly" the tank players and the second posted an extremely offensive pic that suggested sex content.
    it is a disgrace. Report them pls.
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 743 Arc User
    @hypervoreian

    Shadow banning for using the word “silly” in an obvious joke sounds like a bit too much tbh
    Elite Whaleboy
  • hypervoreianhypervoreian Member Posts: 1,036 Arc User
    wilbur626 said:

    @hypervoreian


    Shadow banning for using the word “silly” in an obvious joke sounds like a bit too much tbh

    i am not a native english speaker; maybe in some forms of english and for certain situations and for certain cirmumstances and for certain periods of days , this MIGHT was a joke.
    It is obvious that many here did not get it.
    Maybe he should not offend dozens of players.
  • xtremozxtremoz Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    wilbur626 said:

    @armadeonx

    Can I ask you one last question ?

    If adjusting the DEFENSE formula is 100% out of the question, what would you do to avoid your two fears ?

    I think these six things would help a lot :

    1. Full ingame documentation/tutorial rework.
    2. Tutorial/Leveling zones reward reworks. (I already suggested this in CRR preview forums)
    3. Increased availability of mount and companion upgrade tokens (Already suggested in preview forums)
    4. Adding indomitable runestones to PE Sage Shop. (Currently the one item that may be fall under the pay-to-win definition due to availability)
    5. Introducing an alternative runestone that increases augment companion effectiveness like Indomitable runestones do for "striker" companions.
    6. Another pass on tank paragons fortes, specifically paladins. Asking for this is risky tho, as we all know that Fighters lost their awareness forte the same patch bosses got 100% CA.

    If you dont care answering, thank you for being able to discuss the topic without accusing the "opposition" for trolling, hating new players, whale bubbling and conspiring against the games greater good via the auction house and providing thought out answers.

    Another thing that may help and you forgot to mention, food for tanks. Caprese is ok but we lag other food/potions... where is the 10% version on crit avoid/awareness... dps have watermelon 10/10 power/accu. if we try to raise crit avoid/awareness with food, potion, elixirs... you will see we are limited.

    Theres alot of deflect potions/food/elixir but deflect is the status tank rely less on.
  • sagakaiyume#0847 sagakaiyume Member Posts: 244 Arc User
    They already stated a while back that food like watermelon sorbets won't be available in the future, so they don't feel the need to nerf it. Eventually, it'll go the way of the AP gain potions from previous professions, that are last I checked 500k each. So it is highly unlikely to add a 10% crit avoid/awareness type food to match it.
  • xtremozxtremoz Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    edited March 11

    They already stated a while back that food like watermelon sorbets won't be available in the future, so they don't feel the need to nerf it. Eventually, it'll go the way of the AP gain potions from previous professions, that are last I checked 500k each. So it is highly unlikely to add a 10% crit avoid/awareness type food to match it.

    They may remove it in the future... or nerf it but in the present they still here and in use... while for tank.... they dont exist now...
    Same goes for gear, like goristros, whipers hood of the quiet, devilbone ribcadge... tanks now have the new VOS chest... but that means do VOS alot before with can have that. we miss gear like when you are crit you get crit avoid, or when u hit for 20% your Hp u get awareness.... and so on.

    Edit:
    Insignia bonus have the same... there a bonus you lose defensive status and get offensive where the opposite version for tanks?
  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,410 Community Moderator
    Thread closed because it's became a headache to moderate. Ya'll need to stop being so rude and hateful. Left most of the thread intact so people can see the type of behavior that gets threads closed.
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