test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

The delay on ZAX

mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
edited January 2021 in General Discussion (PC)
I just received my latest purchase off the ZAX. Posted October 7th. 3 months and 2 days wait.

The ZAX really has no value for new people now. With this kind of wait the average player usually has left the game before his transaction goes through :)

Comments

  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    I can't really remember now when was the first time i used ZAX, but when I had that option, I was playing for long term - it may not have been a 3 month wait, but it was a wait still, and i knew that when i used it. If ZAX gave instantly then why the hell would anyone buy zen for flash sales and stuff.

    IMHO ZAX is not meant for new player, they are meant for mostly Free-to-Play players that stick around after trying neverwinter.

    3 months is long but it is what it is. and it will only get longer. so spend zen wisely maybe.
  • eladonwarps#6040 eladonwarps Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    On STO, I've both bought and sold Zen with that game's refinable currency exchange, and never waited more than seconds for a transaction.

    Coming here was a bit of a shock on that front. All I can say is that it really doesn't have to be like this.
    Call me El, she/her only. Currently Professions-only until the next combat change fixes this mess.
  • blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    Theories abound how the ZAX does the accounting method. Only a Cryptic developer would know for sure which method applies. I buy all my Zen for cash and most is spent on Champions.

    Possible methods:
    FIFO - First In First Out is the most likely method for the ZAX. It is like being in a line at a single teller window at the bank. When you are waiting in line the person at the front of the line must conclude their business and walk away. The issue stems from the bank having no Zen, it is waiting on players to deposit Zen for AD.

    HILO - Highest In Last Out would allow look "X deep" into the line and fill the lowest amount first. If the X variable is 5, and the 4th player in line is the lowest they would be filled as soon as the Zen arrived. I doubt this method is used as players requesting 5000 Zen would never see the light of day.

    I won't bother to talk about the methods such as, LIFO, that would make no sense at all. The only way to know for sure would be for a Cryptic developer to just tell us what method is used.

    Just killing time...
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,043 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    Well, it looks like it's "FIFO" and it doesn't matter if you have a small or large listing, you get whatever ZEN is directly available when it's your turn until your listing is filled.

    And more then enough feedback was given on the ZAX and how to improve the situation without affecting the ZEN shop itself, this far not much has changed... sure, there're the Astral Lockboxes, but their design is not good enough to encourage a large amount of players to really spend millions of AD they've banked on them.

    Not to mention all those fudged up ZEN Charge Promotions, and how all (?) the account-wide in game rewards were removed from them - i don't think that's a good way to bring more players to spend real money on big chunks of ZEN, from which then at least something would probably have found it's way into the ZAX.

    Besides, the Bonding Runestones for AD exchange going along with the next module will only make it worse, unless they create a whole lot for account-wide epic companions for the Wondrous Bazaar, that extra AD is also being added into the ZAX, and will increase the waiting time probably towards 6 months or even longer...
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    I was over on Champions doing the Resistance. I often wonder how many here could solo it? Resistance grants us 8800 Questionite and is a repeatable. The thing is, Resistance on your own will take few hours to complete it. Not that it is too hard, it has a lot of content. You go to mirror universe and save the villain to save the world. When I say it has a lot of content, it is not a grind at all, it has a full blown story. While everyone here cries about doing a 15 minute Trial for +35K AD, I prefer doing the adventure packs like Resistance on Champions for 8800 Q. To give you an idea of what 8800 Q is in Zen, I can get over 20 Zen from this mission without the wait. Before anyone here asks, No. Zen doesn't transfer to this game from Champions.

    Just killing time...
  • xvimn134xvimn134 Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    the reason devs want to keep zax relatively high is that they think by doing it people who demand zen gonan spend real money for it; however they dont realize that 90% of the items in zen market can be purchased in AH. They can not force people to spend money for zen items; the only effect it creates are that zen worth more AD (by selling zen market items) and it has ambiguous effect. People who wanna spend real money for 10m AD now only need to spend less money because zen worth more AD. In other words, the high ZAX might even reduce the profit cryptic makes. This can be seen because the waiting time for same amount of AD-ZEN exchange is becoming longer and longer, which might suggest people are spending even less real money in this game; While at the same time the high ZAX are making others who doesnt have enough zen cry everyday.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,134 Arc User
    xvimn134 said:

    the reason devs want to keep zax relatively high is that they think by doing it people who demand zen gonan spend real money for it; however they dont realize that 90% of the items in zen market can be purchased in AH. They can not force people to spend money for zen items; the only effect it creates are that zen worth more AD (by selling zen market items) and it has ambiguous effect. People who wanna spend real money for 10m AD now only need to spend less money because zen worth more AD. In other words, the high ZAX might even reduce the profit cryptic makes. This can be seen because the waiting time for same amount of AD-ZEN exchange is becoming longer and longer, which might suggest people are spending even less real money in this game; While at the same time the high ZAX are making others who doesnt have enough zen cry everyday.

    This is not really true as more and more items on Zen are becoming bound on purchase and I suspect more will be in future.

    Many of the people who by Zen no longer have a reason to sell it for AD and if they do need AD they simply sell items on the AH like wards/scrolls and make more AD than they would on the ZAX.

    Unless something hits the Wondrous Bazaar that is a must have or you simply can't get anywhere else (for less) I don't see the ZAX changing any time soon.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,043 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    Well, i'm still waiting on a LTS sale for Champions Online, can someone please go over there and wake up the person in charge? I'm trying to get some official statement on when the next sale will be on the CO forums and even their Twitter for weeks if not months by now, but nothing this far... looks like they don't want my money.

    And something similar seems to be true for NWO, before more players are going to buy more ZEN here, they would have to actually fix those ZEN Charge Promotions - i mean, why would someone even want to spend real money on ZEN, when they can't even be sure to get it without any problems?

    Anyway, posted a listing on October 20th, have to wait and see when that one will be done. I'll just hope that 5k ZEN will be enough for the next "Reforgers Blessings" option...
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • xvimn134xvimn134 Member Posts: 132 Arc User

    xvimn134 said:

    the reason devs want to keep zax relatively high is that they think by doing it people who demand zen gonan spend real money for it; however they dont realize that 90% of the items in zen market can be purchased in AH. They can not force people to spend money for zen items; the only effect it creates are that zen worth more AD (by selling zen market items) and it has ambiguous effect. People who wanna spend real money for 10m AD now only need to spend less money because zen worth more AD. In other words, the high ZAX might even reduce the profit cryptic makes. This can be seen because the waiting time for same amount of AD-ZEN exchange is becoming longer and longer, which might suggest people are spending even less real money in this game; While at the same time the high ZAX are making others who doesnt have enough zen cry everyday.

    This is not really true as more and more items on Zen are becoming bound on purchase and I suspect more will be in future.

    Many of the people who by Zen no longer have a reason to sell it for AD and if they do need AD they simply sell items on the AH like wards/scrolls and make more AD than they would on the ZAX.

    Unless something hits the Wondrous Bazaar that is a must have or you simply can't get anywhere else (for less) I don't see the ZAX changing any time soon.

    It is actually true, you can get 90% of the popular items in AH if not 95%.
    Yes they buy items in zen market and sell AH, but same logic they now need less zen to get the same amount of AD/values, which means they do not need to spend more real money to get zen, thanks to the zen value inflation because of the high zax.
  • kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 668 Arc User
    All you have to do to fix the Astral Diamond lockbox is remove the refinement points, and replace them with something that those of us who can afford the lockbox want.
  • blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    kharkov58 said:

    All you have to do to fix the Astral Diamond lockbox is remove the refinement points, and replace them with something that those of us who can afford the lockbox want.

    Then you defeat the whole purpose of the AD lockbox being an AD sink. If they replaced the items with higher value, they would need to be bound to account or people will buy them just to make profit. They already do this to some degree as VIP members buy them at 75K and the smart ones wait for the sale to end and sell them for 111K for a clear 25K AD profit per box. Otherwise you can find them during the sale for 85K in the AH. This only nets them 1 to 2K profit per box. If they replaced the refinement items with bound to account items, would you still think they would be worthwhile?

    I could see BtA wards and/or coals being a good replacement item, we get those from the free Celestial Chests.

    Just killing time...
  • xenocide#6577 xenocide Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    kharkov58 said:

    All you have to do to fix the Astral Diamond lockbox is remove the refinement points, and replace them with something that those of us who can afford the lockbox want.

    If you replaced the RP items with tradebars... similar to the foresaken lockbox I would spend so many AD's on the astral lockbox, at least until I had a full set of rank 15's... then i would again have no reason to buy it. But it would be really nice for any player who is still building their character.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited January 2021


    Then you defeat the whole purpose of the AD lockbox being an AD sink. If they replaced the items with higher value, they would need to be bound to account or people will buy them just to make profit.

    Astral lockbox will always remove AD from game. No matter how nice items they add to the lockbox, it will never add AD. So the AD sink job will be done even better if the Astral lockbox content is silly good.

    If the items in the Astral lockbox are worth too little it will not work as an AD sink since people just won't buy it.
    If the items in the Astral lockbox are 'too' nice it will have a very solid AD sink effect, but the items in the lockbox likely will fall in value on AH to compensate for the increased demand.

    Actually making the Astral lockbox very nice could both push down the ZAX backlog(much desired) and push down AH prices on selected items(probably also desired to give lower thresholds for new players), But since everything in the end end up with Zen, it could affect Zen sales negatively.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,208 Arc User
    Only if Cryptic has intention to have a good AD sink and has intention to decrease Zax backlog.
    High AH price is a kind of 10% AD sink.
    Zax backlog and high AH price for Zen item selling in AH are good for Zen sale ($).
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • benyrbenyr Member Posts: 238 Arc User
    Im afraid the ZAX situation is about to get a whole lot worse too, for at least a while. Historically I used to buy a shed load of zen during sales events, and then because I don't really need anything in the game anymore id shove it through the ZAX for AD and buy legendary mounts etc for my collections. This would take 20m - 30m AD out of the ZAX in one fell swoop. Just my way of giving a little back to the game.

    Unfortunately, like many whales, I don't really like the changes MOD 20 bought and most are not planning on spending real money anymore. Personally I stopped playing the day mod 20 hit preview and have not logged in until today, when i decided to exchange all my radiant's, empowered's and bonding's just to future proof myself in case I ever do decide to return to the game.

    I have a lot of characters, all of which had three rank 15 bonding runestones. I've ended up with well over £100m in AD from exchanging them. I then immediately placed 5 max orders of zen on the ZAX increasing the backlog by £18,750,000. Sorry about that, but given i currently have no intention of playing the game, I don't really have an alternative to future proof against a potential return. I'll now log in every month or so, and if any of my orders have been filled I'll push another load of AD through until i've converted it all.

    Upshot is i've moved from being someone who took 100m AD out of the ZAX over a year to someone who's going to put 100m into it. It wont take many former whales to follow that pattern before the ZAX becomes unusable for players needing it for VIP etc. Again i'm sorry but its not my job to fix it.
  • mistameenamistameena Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    TBH anyone one with a grain on intelligence could see the ZenX was going to become a stuff rag doll and now with the AD exchange and the nature of the player beast that stuffing was inevitably going to get a whole lot worse. I guess that's what was intended by design so that players begin to feel the only option now is to actually spend real money now on their VIP's and their other store purchases. The rest of the AD sink is going to happen by natural causes of players having to re-spec all their toonies. That's why the exchange value for your Bonding stones etc was no where near their true value and players are going to need to spend a whole lot more than they get from the exchange to re-spec and be competitive again.. this is why companies employ economists to run the bean counter programs. The devs just have to come up with the magic to make it all unfold. It's no surprise that as soon as this was announced a few weeks back, many items became more and more scarce on the AH and began to suddenly be trickle fed back at greatly inflated prices.. best get used to the playing this game and welcome to the merry go round.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,043 Arc User
    Well, listing finally went through, that's 105 days...
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    Oh bummer. Based on the OPs post, I was expecting a fill on Fri. Now it looks like another 2.5 weeks for me.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,043 Arc User
    Well, another listing went through, it took 108 days this time.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • motu999#9953 motu999 Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    regenerde said:

    Well, another listing went through, it took 108 days this time.

    Do you know what the backlog was at the time you posted?
    I would estimate it to be 40m, meaning it currently moves at 0.4m/day.
    This means, with the ZAX at 65m it would take ~160 days, e.g. 5-6 months ...
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited February 2021

    regenerde said:

    Well, another listing went through, it took 108 days this time.

    Do you know what the backlog was at the time you posted?
    I would estimate it to be 40m, meaning it currently moves at 0.4m/day.
    This means, with the ZAX at 65m it would take ~160 days, e.g. 5-6 months ...
    The length of the ZAX queue and the processing rate also is only part of the story. That other part is the price level of pwards on the AH that is insanely high at the moment. The pward market on the AH is mostly fed by people buying pwards off the Zen store and selling it for a huge profit on AH. Usually fast sales and no risk, and even with no discounts in Zen shop you currently get a 1.8 times extra earnings by doing that over selling Zen directly on the ZAX. (A 10-pack of pwards is around 150k on AH at the moment, with 100Zen = 75k AD Zen shop price)

    Only the new and inexperienced will sell pure Zen on the ZAX today.

    Also, since the pward prices on AH are so extremely insane high, it indicates the balance between paying and nonpaying players has moved towards less paying players. It is the paying players that sets the level of pward supply on AH, either by selling raw Zen or by selling Zen-purchased pwards on AH. The nonpaying players set the level of demand - and there obviously is an imbalance now that was not there before.

    Less paying players is not a good thing for Cryptic. Should we start to worry about NW lifetime? Is so drastic changes in the pro-new-player direction as the Combat Rework a sign of desperation from Cryptic?

    Dang, I really would like to see NWs numbers :) Both money-wise and player-wise :)

  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,043 Arc User

    regenerde said:

    Well, another listing went through, it took 108 days this time.

    Do you know what the backlog was at the time you posted?
    I would estimate it to be 40m, meaning it currently moves at 0.4m/day.
    This means, with the ZAX at 65m it would take ~160 days, e.g. 5-6 months ...
    Well, i'm not sure, but i think it was already above the 40m AD backlog mark at the time i placed those orders. I also placed another order today, have to wait and see how long that one is going to take...

    And i also doubt that flooding the ZAX with so much AD is going to work out for Cryptic in the long run - players that see/read how long it will take to get some ZEN will just cough up cash? Yeah, right...
    I think a far more realistic outcome here will be players simply leaving the game behind, and may be checking back in after a few months to see if their order went through. If it did, they might continue playing, if not, they'll probably leave again.

    Which might also lead to less and less paying players, because why would they spend more money on the game, when there aren't enough players left playing overall?

    But may be that's not the case, and the players and money numbers are all looking good from the Cryptic side - i mean, i see players running around with those new mounts and enchantments in game, so somebody is still buying something here...
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    Still looking for solutions for the 65 million zen backlog?

    I have a solution for Cryptic, I will put this behind a spoiler so the players won't see it.


    Since you plan to delete Sharandar module 1, replace it, just delete the Zax along with it, and make it look like an unpaid intern made a mistake. "Oops! We are so sorry, Intern Fumble Fingers pressed the wrong button, but all the AD went back into your accounts. Just post your bids again." :trollface: That will get rid of the backlog for a while, until they start posting them up again. Many will not post because they have waited a real long time already and some will buy the zen out of haste. Shhh! Keep this a secret so the players are really surprised by the new zero backlog.


    Now don't you peek at that players! That would be like peeking at Christmas gifts, I think?

    Just killing time...
Sign In or Register to comment.