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Feedback regarding overall difficulty and leveling progress

hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
edited February 5 in Player Feedback (PC)
Before I begin, let's just get this out of the way. I have no illusions as to whether what I recommend below will be followed. I've been here since Mod 2, through thick and thin, and, without exception, every time I've tried to warn the devs of an impending mistake they've studiously ignored it. I've come to believe that, on a whiteboard in one of their conference rooms lies the phrase, "never ever do what hustin1 says." I know I can be harsh in my correspondence and I've probably rubbed several people the wrong way. Nonetheless, if I think you're about to make a huge mistake, I'm damned well going to tell you and it's not for nothing. At least I care enough to say something. If I think someone has rocks in his head I might not phrase it quite like that, but if I'm being harsh, it's because sometimes something is so glaring that it demands the use of a bucket of extremely cold water.

The new system you have in place is harder than when the game first launched. Full stop. Take a moment to digest that.
.
.
.
Okay, everyone understand that statement? Let me clarify. I'm not talking about stats, item level, or any of that minutia. I'm talking simple overall difficulty. Specifically I'm talking about the leveling progress from 1 to 60.

Now let me make a prediction.

You are going to frustrate a ton of new players and a ton of existing players every time they create a new alt. You are going to infuriate them.

1. The first and most glaring mistake is that you increased the aggro radius by I'd estimate 33%. This is causing havoc with nearly all of the leveling quests. Encounters that were adequately spaced apart are not anymore, and it is now impossible to not draw aggro from multiple groups at a time in quests that were designed to be soloable.

You need to understand this and if you have even the slightest flippant attitude about soloable quests, kindly do yourself a favor and give yourself a huge kick in the backside. People playing this game have expectations and one is they won't be forced to group up just to do their normal leveling and daily quests. You did this in Mod 6 and you know what happened -- literally HALF the players left. You angered them that much. Do not make that mistake again. I've seen this movie before and I don't want to see the game become a ghost town again because someone there was in denial. You have been warned.

2. The system differs from launch in several important ways, all of which are net negatives for the player.

a. No in-combat regen (I'm not -- repeat, NOT -- talking about lifesteal, I'm talking "regeneration", you remember, the OTHER stat).
b. 18-second potion cooldowns instead of 12.
c. Infuriatingly long cooldowns on CC powers.
d. Increased aggro radius.
e. "Social aggro", where aggroing one enemy in an encounter group automatically aggroes them all, no matter how spaced apart.

Some of us have long memories and combat, at least while leveling up, is significantly harder today compared to launch. Not that roflstomp combat is any better, but as many times in the past, you've gone from one extreme to another. That appears to be the one constant when it comes to combat system changes. Remember, I've seen this movie before, several times, in fact.

As I said at the start, I don't expect you to take my suggestion and at least return the aggro radius back to normal, but I'm not going to make it easy for you and just keep silent. I fully expect you to wait until the complaints mount and then use yet another band-aid, some sort of kludge that makes the system even more complicated, as long as it doesn't violate the Cardinal Rule of "never ever do what hustin1 suggests." I have a Cardinal Rule of my own, "Never try to kill an ant with a nuclear weapon", and I couldn't count the times you've violated it.
Post edited by percemer on
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Comments

  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    I really feel like you and I are playing two separate games.

    First off, this game is still pretty easy compared to what Mod 6 had. It's even easy compared to that of when it first launched. The relative damage to HP ratios of bosses in particular is a lot better now than it used to be. I remember solo lairs taking close to an hour, now the longest ones are still only 15 minutes. I have taken a wizard from 1-60 recently, not taking any of my account wide unlocks, and I've never had an issue except perhaps in Mt. Hotenow where the devs have acknowledged that the mobs are overtuned.

    I remember, in M6 we had to group up in open world just to beat trolls, much less the Cloud Giants in the last zone. You had to be sent to the campfire multiple times per quest. THAT is why people quit in droves...not because someone folishly aggros more than they can handle like is what is being experienced now. There really is only a few mobs or zones that requires tuning down, not the entire game or leveling experience like how you seem to be portraying the game as now.

    Regeneration was a broken system, which is why it was removed.
    Using a full heal potion every 12 seconds is again kinda OP (even normal potions now are a full heal as you are leveling)
    I will agree that CC skills would be nice to have a lower CD now that it's more relevant.
    I have not observed an increased aggro radius.
    Your last point of social aggro... this has always been in the game so it can't be a net negative

    Please provide proof of this game being as pain-stakingly hard as you claim it to be. There is plenty of proof of it being easy even after the rework, just watch the various streams.
  • eladonwarps#6040 eladonwarps Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    Allegedly the aggro range is now based on difference between enemy IL and Player IL. Too close, or enemy higher than yours, and it gets harder.

    Conveniently, we don't get any UI display of this or what enemy IL is for a given zone. /s

    Not sure I buy it, but my recent levelling character was getting kitted out every time she hit a new level for a set of Professions crafted gear. And I'm pretty sure I still got mobbed in Sharandar right up until I gave up.
    Call me El, she/her only. Currently Professions-only until the next combat change fixes this mess.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    Lifesteal was a broken system. Regeneration was not. They were different stats that behaved differently. For some reason every time I specifically point out that I am NOT talking about lifesteal it never gets into peoples' heads.

    You're dead wrong about social aggro. I specifically remember the devs pointing out that it was a new feature to Mod 6. It was by no means always in the game.

    Maybe you think 12 seconds for a healing potion is OP. I disagree.

    I can point to several places in the leveling areas and quests where a wider aggro radius is extremely problematic.

    - Tower District mid and end areas
    - Helms hold underground shield areas
    - Ebon Downs zombie areas
    - Vellosk lairs (especially Stormcaller caves -- OMG that was horrible)
    - Pirates' Skyhold
    - Icespire peak giants area
    - Cathedral of Madness

    I haven't proceeded beyond the Chasm yet so I can't speak to what life is like after that. Of course, having pointed these areas out, I have zero doubt that the devs' solution, if any, will be to move encounters around in those (and only those) areas. Returning aggro radius to normal would be far, far too much for their pride to handle.

    I've been here since mod 2, guys. I know a pattern when I see it. Never in seven years have they backtracked on an obvious mistake. It's not for nothing that Pride is one of the seven deadly sins.

    I wasn't talking about Lifesteal, I was talking about Regeneration. Do not put words in people's mouths. It was broken for tanks as they were unkillable unless you one-shot them, first moved to out of combat only then completely removed and now we have a passive 10% regen every few seconds.

    As far as aggro, I was referring to the most recent change, not something that happened over 5 years ago. If you are having issues, be sure to kite backwards away from other packs.

    12 seconds, even 18 seconds, is a very short period of time for potion cooldowns, most games have 30 seconds.

    Speaking of pride...maybe check your own. I know since you have said you've been here since M2, you must be pretty set in your ways. Try changing up tactics, or different approaches. If people are able to do just fine handling mobs and are leveling without dying, maybe the issue isn't with the game.

    The developers have backtracked, just look at scaling with M16, scaling used to be everywhere, then it was changed to queued content only, and then tuned to make things easier, all in the matter of a few weeks and with several apologies.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,903 Arc User
    I always thought they killed regen because of pvp - but maybe it was because they wanted people to use more healing potions. Of course, then they brought in stones of health and boosted HP, reducing the viability of potions lol...

    I recently came back from a 2.5yr break from the game and saw they'd fixed the aggro radius in Chult - and I thought "oh that's good..." But now they gone and put it back up, but not just in Chult - it's everywhere!

    smh
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  • ultramath#3953 ultramath Member Posts: 143 Arc User
    The only leveling area that is bugged anymore is Mt. Hotenow. You can skip it for now and proceed to Whispering Caverns and get along just fine. I bug-reported Hotenow the morning they released the last hotfix.

    If you have problems leveling, try to remember these tips:

    Pull mob groups into safe areas so you don't accidentally aggro more than you can handle. Some maps have mob groups that are close together -- this is basically a trap to catch you if you get sloppy or careless. If you pull mob groups around a corner or other obstacle, they will tend to "bunch up" which makes hitting them with AoE more effective. This also cuts line of sight for ranged mobs, which will shield you from attacks until the mobs reposition to see you again. Sometimes ranged mobs won't move, which essentially makes a tough fight easier because you can fight some of the mobs in stages instead of all of them at once. Boss battles at the end of leveling instances (NOT the group dungeons you Queue for!) can be pulled from their area at the end and moved to a more advantageous location. This can also bunch up or spread out mobs that the boss summons, and let you control combat advantage easier than if you fight in a large open area.

    Be very mindful of combat advantage -- if you get surrounded by mobs they will do DOUBLE DAMAGE to you! If you are in a purple zone you do DOUBLE DAMAGE to them!

    Health potions are now very powerful. You can farm for health potions, buff potions, and injury kits appropriate to your level by getting bounty bags with the bounty currency that drops from mobs in the zone you are working on. These bags also give you refinement stones like black pearls and so on. Of course, if you save all these bounty bags for when you hit level 80 and open them THEN... all the potions and injury kits will be for level 80s and extras can be sold off for a tidy profit. Yes, you can go back to lower level zones and farm for bounty currency if you want. The contents of the bounty bags are dependent on YOUR level, not on the level from where they were obtained.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 969 Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    Before I begin, let's just get this out of the way. I have no illusions as to whether what I recommend below will be followed. I've been here since Mod 2, through thick and thin, and, without exception, every time I've tried to warn the devs of an impending mistake they've studiously ignored it. I've come to believe that, on a whiteboard in one of their conference rooms lies the phrase, "never ever do what hustin1 says." I know I can be harsh in my correspondence and I've probably rubbed several people the wrong way. Nonetheless, if I think you're about to make a huge mistake, I'm damned well going to tell you and it's not for nothing. At least I care enough to say something. If I think someone has rocks in his head I might not phrase it quite like that, but if I'm being harsh, it's because sometimes something is so glaring that it demands the use of a bucket of extremely cold water.

    The new system you have in place is harder than when the game first launched. Full stop. Take a moment to digest that.
    .
    .
    .
    Okay, everyone understand that statement? Let me clarify. I'm not talking about stats, item level, or any of that minutia. I'm talking simple overall difficulty. Specifically I'm talking about the leveling progress from 1 to 60.

    Now let me make a prediction.

    You are going to frustrate a ton of new players and a ton of existing players every time they create a new alt. You are going to infuriate them.

    1. The first and most glaring mistake is that you increased the aggro radius by I'd estimate 33%. This is causing havoc with nearly all of the leveling quests. Encounters that were adequately spaced apart are not anymore, and it is now impossible to not draw aggro from multiple groups at a time in quests that were designed to be soloable.

    You need to understand this and if you have even the slightest flippant attitude about soloable quests, kindly do yourself a favor and give yourself a huge kick in the backside. People playing this game have expectations and one is they won't be forced to group up just to do their normal leveling and daily quests. You did this in Mod 6 and you know what happened -- literally HALF the players left. You angered them that much. Do not make that mistake again. I've seen this movie before and I don't want to see the game become a ghost town again because someone there was in denial. You have been warned.

    2. The system differs from launch in several important ways, all of which are net negatives for the player.

    a. No in-combat regen (I'm not -- repeat, NOT -- talking about lifesteal, I'm talking "regeneration", you remember, the OTHER stat).
    b. 18-second potion cooldowns instead of 12.
    c. Infuriatingly long cooldowns on CC powers.
    d. Increased aggro radius.
    e. "Social aggro", where aggroing one enemy in an encounter group automatically aggroes them all, no matter how spaced apart.

    Some of us have long memories and combat, at least while leveling up, is significantly harder today compared to launch. Not that roflstomp combat is any better, but as many times in the past, you've gone from one extreme to another. That appears to be the one constant when it comes to combat system changes. Remember, I've seen this movie before, several times, in fact.

    As I said at the start, I don't expect you to take my suggestion and at least return the aggro radius back to normal, but I'm not going to make it easy for you and just keep silent. I fully expect you to wait until the complaints mount and then use yet another band-aid, some sort of kludge that makes the system even more complicated, as long as it doesn't violate the Cardinal Rule of "never ever do what hustin1 suggests." I have a Cardinal Rule of my own, "Never try to kill an ant with a nuclear weapon", and I couldn't count the times you've violated it.

    One simple question, do you even try understand why changes where implemented.
    Not only current one but previous changes before..

    Like why life steal got nerfed in mod 6?
    Or why with mod 16 buff/debuffs where removed?

    Why we have downscaling in dungeons?


    You look to one puzzle peace yet not see full image.

    For moment try understand reason why staff made these changes, it's not like they are bored and have nothing to do.
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 671 Arc User
    edited February 3

    hustin1 said:

    Before I begin, let's just get this out of the way. I have no illusions as to whether what I recommend below will be followed. I've been here since Mod 2, through thick and thin, and, without exception, every time I've tried to warn the devs of an impending mistake they've studiously ignored it. I've come to believe that, on a whiteboard in one of their conference rooms lies the phrase, "never ever do what hustin1 says." I know I can be harsh in my correspondence and I've probably rubbed several people the wrong way. Nonetheless, if I think you're about to make a huge mistake, I'm damned well going to tell you and it's not for nothing. At least I care enough to say something. If I think someone has rocks in his head I might not phrase it quite like that, but if I'm being harsh, it's because sometimes something is so glaring that it demands the use of a bucket of extremely cold water.

    The new system you have in place is harder than when the game first launched. Full stop. Take a moment to digest that.
    .
    .
    .
    Okay, everyone understand that statement? Let me clarify. I'm not talking about stats, item level, or any of that minutia. I'm talking simple overall difficulty. Specifically I'm talking about the leveling progress from 1 to 60.

    Now let me make a prediction.

    You are going to frustrate a ton of new players and a ton of existing players every time they create a new alt. You are going to infuriate them.

    1. The first and most glaring mistake is that you increased the aggro radius by I'd estimate 33%. This is causing havoc with nearly all of the leveling quests. Encounters that were adequately spaced apart are not anymore, and it is now impossible to not draw aggro from multiple groups at a time in quests that were designed to be soloable.

    You need to understand this and if you have even the slightest flippant attitude about soloable quests, kindly do yourself a favor and give yourself a huge kick in the backside. People playing this game have expectations and one is they won't be forced to group up just to do their normal leveling and daily quests. You did this in Mod 6 and you know what happened -- literally HALF the players left. You angered them that much. Do not make that mistake again. I've seen this movie before and I don't want to see the game become a ghost town again because someone there was in denial. You have been warned.

    2. The system differs from launch in several important ways, all of which are net negatives for the player.

    a. No in-combat regen (I'm not -- repeat, NOT -- talking about lifesteal, I'm talking "regeneration", you remember, the OTHER stat).
    b. 18-second potion cooldowns instead of 12.
    c. Infuriatingly long cooldowns on CC powers.
    d. Increased aggro radius.
    e. "Social aggro", where aggroing one enemy in an encounter group automatically aggroes them all, no matter how spaced apart.

    Some of us have long memories and combat, at least while leveling up, is significantly harder today compared to launch. Not that roflstomp combat is any better, but as many times in the past, you've gone from one extreme to another. That appears to be the one constant when it comes to combat system changes. Remember, I've seen this movie before, several times, in fact.

    As I said at the start, I don't expect you to take my suggestion and at least return the aggro radius back to normal, but I'm not going to make it easy for you and just keep silent. I fully expect you to wait until the complaints mount and then use yet another band-aid, some sort of kludge that makes the system even more complicated, as long as it doesn't violate the Cardinal Rule of "never ever do what hustin1 suggests." I have a Cardinal Rule of my own, "Never try to kill an ant with a nuclear weapon", and I couldn't count the times you've violated it.

    One simple question, do you even try understand why changes where implemented.
    Not only current one but previous changes before..

    Like why life steal got nerfed in mod 6?
    Or why with mod 16 buff/debuffs where removed?

    Why we have downscaling in dungeons?


    You look to one puzzle peace yet not see full image.

    For moment try understand reason why staff made these changes, it's not like they are bored and have nothing to do.
    They needed to nerf it because they created it.
    They are implementing without testing and often with complete disregard to preview feedback, then they do not patch/fix (eg M14) and watch it turn bad. Then they say: Ah shucks, now we have to nerf it. (And they usually nerf it real good, way harder than what was necessary and a lot harder than is fun)
    People complain, the answer to them is (all the time): Oh you just don't get it, do you?
    - bye bye -
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 969 Arc User
    edited February 5


    They needed to nerf it because they created it.
    They are implementing without testing and often with complete disregard to preview feedback, then they do not patch/fix (eg M14) and watch it turn bad. Then they say: Ah shucks, now we have to nerf it. (And they usually nerf it real good, way harder than what was necessary and a lot harder than is fun)
    People complain, the answer to them is (all the time): Oh you just don't get it, do you?

    They needed to nerf cuz they created it.. That's makes no sense. The correct way would be to say> nerf was done due balancing. But I asume you would not dare to even write or talk in this way.. After all it's easier simply oozing hates toward staff, than try understand reason why changes have been made.

    Very fun part in your comment is about that staff do not care about players feedbacks and also about that game was not tested..

    The reaility game have been tested and feebacks where provided. So you should better ask who did testing and who provided feebacks.

    As for players complain, well I am sure they are.. Some players prior these comabat changes where chanting ohh I am god in this game.. But what the reality he was only god as long his presence was not required. When companion and high stats was all matter. By simply Brute Force gameplay you could ingore most game mechanics and walk over any boss.

    The current combat system is more less > True Action Combat. Not immitation.

    As for players who rage due changes. Well, it can be put in one liners> And gods fallen down from sky, with high velocity , went straight down with face down to the dirt.

    In other words, all so called "Gods" where not Gods after all. The current combat system show's who's are who, and where your chracters builds are. No more just gear/companion required.. Now it's also required you to know what the heck are you doing.
    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 969 Arc User
    edited February 5
    hustin1 said:



    I remember exactly the stated reason why the devs nerfed lifesteal in Mod 6. It was because DPS were chasing the stat to the point where they never needed healers. The problem was, they threw the baby out with the bathwater. They could have chosen the simple solution, which would have been to cap the rate at which you could receive healing from lifesteal. Instead, they made it even worse. They changed the stat from having a 100% chance to give you a certain percentage of your HP to a less-than-100% chance of giving you **all** of your HP. By turning lifesteal into an all-or-nothing proposition, they made it even *more* unbalanced. It was exactly the wrong thing to do. They should have simply capped your incoming healing rate from lifesteal to a certain percentage of your max HP per second. Done, problem solved.

    They never gave an adequate explanation for the removal of the **regeneration** stat, which was a separate stat from lifesteal. Another poster mentioned that it made tanks unkillable. I can't speak to tanks as I never played my Guardian Fighter much, but I chased the stat **HARD** as a dps and it never gave me more than a modest amount of regen during combat. Regeneration, as a stat, was under control from my perspective and I saw (and still see) no reason why it should have been removed.

    Buffs were removed because they contributed to a META that was causing a lot of classes to be excluded from group content. I have no objection to their removal, ***however*** what I do not want to see is a bard class introduced that features party buffs. That would only return the same problem that was created in Mod 6 with paladins: making a single class indispensable for group content. That would be a very, very bad mistake.
    Even I could add extra in your comments, but thats good enough.

    So lets focus on Life steal, ( pre mod 16) and since it was game breaking, how you would fix that problem.

    Then buff/debuff issues, in mod 15. How you would fix it.

    Then mod 16~18 high stat creep. How you would fix that problem.

    And now how you would fix problem of this Xuna/abysal chicken.

    Lets see how you would solve these problems. Try put yourself in devs position for moment.


    When comes game balancing and development. There is always same situation.
    You do changes = players hate.
    You don't do chances = players hate.



    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • vastano#2343 vastano Member Posts: 169 Arc User

    hustin1 said:



    I remember exactly the stated reason why the devs nerfed lifesteal in Mod 6. It was because DPS were chasing the stat to the point where they never needed healers. The problem was, they threw the baby out with the bathwater. They could have chosen the simple solution, which would have been to cap the rate at which you could receive healing from lifesteal. Instead, they made it even worse. They changed the stat from having a 100% chance to give you a certain percentage of your HP to a less-than-100% chance of giving you **all** of your HP. By turning lifesteal into an all-or-nothing proposition, they made it even *more* unbalanced. It was exactly the wrong thing to do. They should have simply capped your incoming healing rate from lifesteal to a certain percentage of your max HP per second. Done, problem solved.

    They never gave an adequate explanation for the removal of the **regeneration** stat, which was a separate stat from lifesteal. Another poster mentioned that it made tanks unkillable. I can't speak to tanks as I never played my Guardian Fighter much, but I chased the stat **HARD** as a dps and it never gave me more than a modest amount of regen during combat. Regeneration, as a stat, was under control from my perspective and I saw (and still see) no reason why it should have been removed.

    Buffs were removed because they contributed to a META that was causing a lot of classes to be excluded from group content. I have no objection to their removal, ***however*** what I do not want to see is a bard class introduced that features party buffs. That would only return the same problem that was created in Mod 6 with paladins: making a single class indispensable for group content. That would be a very, very bad mistake.
    Even I could add extra in your comments, but thats good enough.

    So lets focus on Life steal, ( pre mod 16) and since it was game breaking, how you would fix that problem.

    Then buff/debuff issues, in mod 15. How you would fix it.

    Then mod 16~18 high stat creep. How you would fix that problem.

    And now how you would fix problem of this Xuna/abysal chicken.

    Lets see how you would solve these problems. Try put yourself in devs position for moment.


    When comes game balancing and development. There is always same situation.
    You do changes = players hate.
    You don't do chances = players hate.



    i think hustin 1 had it dead right
    dont use a nuclear bomb to kill an ant
    how do you fix problem like xuna and chicken easy fix xuna and chicken dont break the entire game to fix one thing

  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 969 Arc User
    edited February 5


    i think hustin 1 had it dead right
    dont use a nuclear bomb to kill an ant
    how do you fix problem like xuna and chicken easy fix xuna and chicken dont break the entire game to fix one thing

    Gota love such answer.. Best way to fix x problem is not break it.
    It;s sounds like dev break stuffs on purpse cuz they are bored...


    Remember, it's easy to rage and hate when devs did or don't do any changes. But it's harder to try understand reason behind these changes.
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,903 Arc User

    hustin1 said:



    I remember exactly the stated reason why the devs nerfed lifesteal in Mod 6. It was because DPS were chasing the stat to the point where they never needed healers. The problem was, they threw the baby out with the bathwater. They could have chosen the simple solution, which would have been to cap the rate at which you could receive healing from lifesteal. Instead, they made it even worse. They changed the stat from having a 100% chance to give you a certain percentage of your HP to a less-than-100% chance of giving you **all** of your HP. By turning lifesteal into an all-or-nothing proposition, they made it even *more* unbalanced. It was exactly the wrong thing to do. They should have simply capped your incoming healing rate from lifesteal to a certain percentage of your max HP per second. Done, problem solved.

    They never gave an adequate explanation for the removal of the **regeneration** stat, which was a separate stat from lifesteal. Another poster mentioned that it made tanks unkillable. I can't speak to tanks as I never played my Guardian Fighter much, but I chased the stat **HARD** as a dps and it never gave me more than a modest amount of regen during combat. Regeneration, as a stat, was under control from my perspective and I saw (and still see) no reason why it should have been removed.

    Buffs were removed because they contributed to a META that was causing a lot of classes to be excluded from group content. I have no objection to their removal, ***however*** what I do not want to see is a bard class introduced that features party buffs. That would only return the same problem that was created in Mod 6 with paladins: making a single class indispensable for group content. That would be a very, very bad mistake.
    Even I could add extra in your comments, but thats good enough.

    So lets focus on Life steal, ( pre mod 16) and since it was game breaking, how you would fix that problem.

    Then buff/debuff issues, in mod 15. How you would fix it.

    Then mod 16~18 high stat creep. How you would fix that problem.

    And now how you would fix problem of this Xuna/abysal chicken.

    Lets see how you would solve these problems. Try put yourself in devs position for moment.


    When comes game balancing and development. There is always same situation.
    You do changes = players hate.
    You don't do chances = players hate.



    It seems you didn't actually read his full reply, just the bit you quoted?? He posted a logical solution for lifesteal in that very reply:

    "They should have simply capped your incoming healing rate from lifesteal to a certain percentage of your max HP per second."

    Putting caps to buffs/debuffs would've worked well too.

    Stat creep, yeah well this has been a problem for the entire game. You know who controls stat creep? No? have a guess. Stat creep is a deliberate mechanism within the game - it is not accidental. It is an incentive for players to keep pursuing new gear, new goals, and as such - buy more keys/packs/mounts/companions with ever higher bonuses so the revenue keeps coming in.

    Stat creep is not a problem, it's a source of continuous income.

    On the subject of player attitude: You know what would've kept most players happy? Delivering what was promised. When the devs said "you won't notice any difference" before the update (said by @noworries#8859 specifically - I can find the post for you if you like) and then there's a huge difference. That is a problem as well as a broken promise.






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  • sagakaiyume#0847 sagakaiyume Member Posts: 337 Arc User
    I haven't noticed much of a difference as a tank, but I'm in the camp of "have everything". I'm just done with lies from devs and trying to do things that weren't needed just to try hindering the players.

    Power creep easily could've been solved by stop handing out improved IL gear with more power and increasing enemy ratings, we already were at the point many builds were having to sacrifice 1 companion gear slot for def and a couple insignias to get a dps capped out. Start increasing enemy ratings 10k per mod and you would've easily seen power creep disappear.

    Something as simple as an arena that waves went on as long as players could handle with an increase of 2k enemy ratings per wave or 5k per boss would seen a variety of builds depending how far the players wanted to go, achieving the same goal of trying to get people to rebuild with non-power or hp items, but in a way that it was player choice; I want to get to the 20th boss in the arena? It has 100k ratings, I have to build around that as a tank, ignoring accuracy, deflect and sacrifing hp to cap what matters, focusing only arm pen, CA, def and crit avoid.

    Instead, they force everyone to rebuild, make most of what people had useless, tell people don't worry you won't notice a difference yet we have to spend what, 40m? rebuilding our toons. 40m isn't something everyone has lying around.

    "You don't need everything, you can get by with-" yeah, go ahead and don't have anything of value, except the fact that everything is balanced in game with having specific mount powers for endgame content, stuff that cost you millions or dozens of millions now may as well not exist, Dev's attitude about how scaling currently is working where you're better off unequipping items, scaling the newest content on us, didn't bring us the reworked boons we were promised, when begged to bring celestial set up they instead brought lionheart down, removing mechanics from your class - some stuff out right not working that is needed, salty devs getting mad people are now stacking CC so they add a counter to it during the first boss of the new dungeon....I mean really?
  • percemerpercemer Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 576 Arc User
    Hello,

    I renamed the discussion because the title was rather offensive, it's always better that the title reflects what the discussion will be about. While we take all feedbacks into account, we invite you to always remain respectful.

    Regards,
    Percemer
    EU Community Manager @ Perfect World Entertainment
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  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited February 5
    Even once a new player get to 80 and gets all their boons, they're still gonna need to save up:
    ~25 million ad for companion upgrades (from epic, not including the cost of the companions themselves)
    ~40-70+ million ad for mounts and upgrades (depending on if you get epics/legendaries and upgrade)
    ~48+ million ad for enchantments and runestones
    ~10-15 million ad for armor and weapon enchantments
    ~7-10 million ad for insignias
    ~collars ...

    Before the mount and companion changes, we only need 1 or 2 legendary mounts, 5 legendary companions, and 3 bonding runestones. Way way cheaper, and the bondings could be shared with our alts. Over half of the cost of maxing a toon currently comes from the recent changes, in other words, the recent changes have doubled the cost of end-game.

    With regards to the latest changes to stats, as far as I'm concerned, the split between "base ratings" and "other contributions" and the unnecessary arithmetic with TIL, only serves to push player to dump massive amounts of AD into their companions, as they are the primary source of "other contributions". The mount changes forces player to upgrade 10 mounts to mythic, just to get the full amount of stats they are supposed to give.

    Comment edited by Percemer, reason: Please remain respectful and don't make false accusations. Click here to read our Community Rules and Policies that you have previously accepted.

  • percemerpercemer Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited February 6
    Hello @quickfoot#7851, we are sorry to hear that your experience with the game is not up to your expectations. However, there are some things you can't affirm. In addition, keep in mind that there is no obligation to upgrade everything at max rank. These are new opportunities, but not an obligation to fully enjoy the game experience. Rather, these are long-term goals for those who wish to do so.

    Regards,
    Percemer
    EU Community Manager @ Perfect World Entertainment
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  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    edited February 6
    Here's another example of why juicing the aggro radius was ill-advised at best (and, to be blunt, has me pretty infuriated).

    Quickling Den

    Go there and see what happens. Once you break into the large cavern, aggro just ONE quickling. Aggro only the nearest one.

    The entire cave empties out and rushes you. It happened to me last night. I only wish I had been recording a video. I barely managed to stay alive, and this was with a healer-build cleric.

    Now, you might say, "Who cares? The entire map is turning into a pumpkin in four days."

    It's **indicative of a wider problem**, one I've seen all over the place. Increasing the aggro range has played havoc with entire maps that were otherwise balanced.

    I would really like to know the justification for the change. Was this something someone sneaked into the git repository without a review? Was this someone deciding to be mean? Was it the result of a theoretical assumption from a person who doesn't actually play the game day in and day out? Was it something else? In what universe does such a disruptive change make any sense?

    Now, don't get me wrong, what I'm about to say might surprise you. I actually think it's a good thing that the devs don't have their own personal accounts and play the game day in and day out, because it would create an obvious conflict of interest. But it also means that it's easy to get out of touch. *Someone* made this decision. How could they not know that it would play merry havoc with gameplay just about everywhere?

    I can't speak for anyone else on this forum, but I don't have a lot of desire to play when it's like this. I'm finding myself thinking more and more of my druid on another game. Some of my alliance members feel the same.
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  • roland#5976 roland Member Posts: 1 New User
    Just started playing about 2 months ago and got my toon to 70 last night. Logged on this afternoon and I can't even get by the trash mobs now :(. Needless to say, pretty disappointed, I'm a wow XPat and I was really enjoying this game. I'll come back when its fixed, but still super disappointed.
  • highlyunstablehighlyunstable Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 333 Arc User
    I agree with Percemer, these is no need to get everything to max, unless you plan being one of the HDPS in the game. TIC, ToMM and Zariel are really the only places where HDPS is good to have, and in all honesty, who the heck even runs Zariel ?? It gives basically the same loot as LoMM, but does give a chance to get useless weapons. Seriously. No Joke.

    Not to mention, as we all found out, with 90 -99% of this game is now scaled.. upgrading companions is really is not needed. Based on the new format, the gear I have will last me for years to come, which I love as it saved me $100's in real money.
    True Story.

    Back in Mod 16 they told us straight out.. either grinds for months (or years), or pay money. Now, regardless of time or money, achieving "Monster" or "God Like" status is all but gone so... no need to worry about upgrading in my opinion.
  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,903 Arc User
    yeaaahhh but it's not just 'grind for years' though is it? Or even 'pay this amount and you're done' because they continually move the goal posts. You have to keep spending and/or grinding in perpetuity.

    Spending enough $$ will max you out temporarily, a mod or 2 later and you have to spend the same amount all over again.
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  • xenocide#6577 xenocide Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    yeaaahhh but it's not just 'grind for years' though is it? Or even 'pay this amount and you're done' because they continually move the goal posts. You have to keep spending and/or grinding in perpetuity.

    Spending enough $$ will max you out temporarily, a mod or 2 later and you have to spend the same amount all over again.

    Well you can refine 100,000 astral diamonds / day

    10 companions from green to mythic = 32,500,000 astral diamonds
    Rank 14 Weapon enchantment = 6,500,000 AD
    Rank 14 Armor enchantment = 6,500,000 AD
    6 Runestones, rank 15 = 12,000,000 AD
    15 enchantments, rank 15 = 30,000,000 AD

    Total for the 'starter pack' = 87,500,00 AD, oooorrr 875 days of grinding your daily refine

    After that, you can work on campaigns, and upgrade the rest of your stuff for your character like, mounts, and mount collars, insignias, ect.

    Or start an alt lol
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 969 Arc User

    Why the heck you all try split game in two, either you max out and you can play game, or you yet not max out and you can't play this game..
    That's make no sense.
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  • armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,903 Arc User
    @percemer thanks for joining the discussion. I've been concerned that the developers and community team stopped posting a couple of weeks ago (other than to posts about individual bugs) so it's interesting to see someone from PWE commenting - I may be wrong but I think that's the first time I've ever seen that.

    I don't know if you are able to comment, but I'm sure many here would like to know if the new scaling system is working as the developers intended or if they too share some of the concerns expressed by players?
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  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,215 Arc User


    Back in Mod 16 they told us straight out.. either grinds for months (or years), or pay money. Now, regardless of time or money, achieving "Monster" or "God Like" status is all but gone so... no need to worry about upgrading in my opinion.

    Yes, because they killed any illusion of progression.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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