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Official M20: The Vault of Stars Dungeon

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  • nova#2306 nova Member Posts: 139 Arc User
    m
    armadeonx said:

    People complaining about the adds on the 1st boss; you could always bring a CW to CC them - oh wait, they nerfed CC...

    CC is okay, even playing Thaum Wizard, the ads are fine. You just need to know when to use what abilities for the Wiz when you're on the first boss. The ads are fine imo.
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  • synyster3006synyster3006 Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    Hi there,
    here some thoughts

    Royal Gardener

    - Sometime you start taking damage, apparently without any cause, and then you discover you were sitting in a red area that was not shown (grafically).
    - I've read some suggestions about the light inside there. Personally i think that the way it is right now, is completely fine, we can distinguish mechanics more easily.
    - I agree with the ones who said that archers are doing way too much damage inside there (it's easyer to get one-shotted by one of them, than from a boss swing)

    The Maze

    In the latest runs i did in preview, we found ourselfs many times spitted 4-1 in the corridors, one time also 5-0. Is this intended to happen? If so, i don't think the group separation should metter that much in the time it takes you to move from room to room.

    Bosses HP

    i know that currently, in the preview build, they have more HP then intended (due to an overall Increase). But, in a long term pov, the way it is right now is really good. Since most of the players are already not that much used to that mechanics, and Combat Changes still a "newly born thing". Probably, it will be necessary to make a further increase in the future.

    Thanks,
    Aster
  • hastati96hastati96 Member Posts: 465 Arc User
    edited January 20


    3. When interacting with the door on the hedge, if all players don't click at the same time, one is stuck in combat and cannot join the fight in the arena.

    I also experienced this multiple times as tank. It was pretty annoying to not be able to enter for like 15 seconds.

    The bosses feel pretty fine, balance wise. I wouldn't change much there. The difficulty is challenging but not unbeatable. The HP feels good and the dmg output of the bosses as well.

    The only part I would make easier is the maze. It is a lot harder to complete than the 3 bosses. Especially the split into 2 groups part feels pretty random. Sometimes you have a good split, sometimes a bad one which can be pretty frustrating.

    We also had a case in the maze at the last gate where multiple waves of flowers spawned. I think this is unintended. There were also waves that spawned no flowers.
    Post edited by hastati96 on
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  • xsellize8xsellize8 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    We want to give feedback of Vault of Stars after finishing it as a group:

    1) We do not like the scaling in this dungeon, as this is currently the 'highest' dungeon regarding progression and required item level.
    - The progress of the character feels worthless, as even with the 'most difficult' dungeon it does not help to achieve higher damage after reaching 51 000 item level. Additional progress is not really worth it, as balancing stats at a lower item level than 51 000 is better than reaching as an example 54 000 item level with the character.
    - The dungeon Vault of Stars would be a perfect place to still allow uncapped item level to reward the players with most item level to still feel some accomplishment after upgrading all relevant parts of the player (gear, companions, mounts, ...).
    2) After the first boss loading into the next map it can happen to people with longer loading times to spawn directly in the area of traveling to the next point without possibility to use the fireplace.
    - Example: Players A, B, C, D finished loading and activate the next travel point to load to the next part. Player E has a slow internet connection and is still loading. After 'appearing' in the map player E travels with the rest of the party to the next part, as player E spawned directly in the 'travel to the next part/the party waits for you' area/circle and not in the fireplace. Player E wanted to swap loadouts and get rid of 'skulls due to deaths (from the first boss)', but as the spawnpoint is situated in the 'travel to the next part' area/circle player E could not do that, even if player E wanted to.
    - Solution: Change the spawnpoint to be at the fireplace, so that player E has to actively go the 'travel to the next part/the party waits for you' area/circle, where the group waits, after player E cleared skulls and swapped loadout at the fireplace.
    3) At the second boss there are ice areas which deal damage immediately after appearing which make it difficult for players to 'get rid of them'. Solution would be to give more time so players can place the ice area and get away from the ice area before getting too much damage from it. Currently the given total damage of the ice area is so high due to the delay, which is currently too short, that some players with more delay (technical reasons like internet connection) at full life have difficulty to stay alive without an additional heal from the healer.
    4) At the second boss there are arrows which turn the player into ice (paralyze them) - unfortunately, the ice-player is then surrounded by a 'red damage area', which makes it more difficult for close-combat players (like rogue, barbarian, ...) to free the player by destroying their ice - as it requires either ranged attacks or heals by the healer for the players 'freeing' the frozen player. This can be problematic as it gives disadvantages for close-combat player in comparison to ranged-attack players (potentially leading to more death 'skulls').
    5) At the labyrinth, the time is very short, if the way is not known before. Suggestion would be to generate a way with randomization aspects (not the same everytime) and give more time for the players to find the way. This would lead to the fact, that 'experienced' and 'new' players in the dungeon both have some challenge with the labyrinth and that the 'new' player can find the way given enough time (and not wipe all the time). As it currently is implemented on preview the labyrinth is very difficult to finish without 'wipes' (party completely dead) without knowing the way before.
    6) A personal impression by the tank of the group is, that the dungeon feels too unforgiving for the tank, as the tank 'feels too weak'. (It has to be noted that the tank has balanced endgame stats with 90% defense, 67% awareness, 793k hitpoints, above 51k item level. The tank died sometimes from the initial hit of non-boss mobs, which is unsuspected and feels unintended.) The suggestion is to implement the dungeon with either the endgame maxed-out player with every stat perfectly balanced in mind (which should be communicated then) or balance it for a wider audience of players.
  • ron#1747 ron Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    These are some good changes, they look like they'll really help to balance the 1st boss with thr others. I like them!
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,360 Arc User
  • lassorlassor Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 60 Cryptic Developer


    - Sometime you start taking damage, apparently without any cause, and then you discover you were sitting in a red area that was not shown (grafically).

    I've gotten this feedback before in real time where the person had a DoT active on them that they didn't notice. I suspect this may be the case here as well, but if not I would love to get more details on what power was hitting you while not visible.

  • nova#2306 nova Member Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited January 28
    @lassor#2420

    Wanted to ask here, if the issue with dodging the Displacer Beast Black Beam has been fixed. As you saw from my stream.
    Post edited by nova#2306 on
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  • lassorlassor Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 60 Cryptic Developer

    @lassor#2420

    Wanted to ask here, if the issue with dodging the Displacer Beast Black Beam has been fixed. As you saw from my stream.

    I saw your team beat the Royal Gardener without a tank, but I don't recall seeing someone dodge Grim Reaper to successfully intercept. If it's working that way then I'll change it so that's not possible. Sever the Stalk is no longer dodgeable, so attempting the boss without a tank should be much more punishing now.

  • kungskabb#9290 kungskabb Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    > @lassor said:
    > I've gotten this feedback before in real time where the person had a DoT active on them that they didn't notice. I suspect this may be the case here as well, but if not I would love to get more details on what power was hitting you while not visible.

    Could it be that the texture for the red warningarea doesn't load in time? On ps4 at least I have that problem sometimes, first I see a lowgrade mipmap of the red circle looking like a blurry square, then the higher res circle loads. The ps4 version has by the way really gotten slow to load textures since a few months, sometimes when I zone in to protectors enclave I can run almost up to sybella before everything is loaded...
  • coolgor28#5062 coolgor28 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    We run today after the patch 2 people never had run it before. First 2 bosses were too easy i think the damage and hp lowered too much we never died on those 2 bosses beat them on first try and never felt like we had to look for something bosses were killed very fast.

    First boss had like arcturia vibe you had to do some mechanics now boss burns too fast and not much damage to be afraid or to do any mechanic more then twice.

    Second boss is very straight forward don't know what else you can do but very easy even if you don't burn fast, boss hp lowered too much he don't do the fast rotation because he dies too fast
    .
    Now maze is fun in the beginning but after some time it gets boring so i think need a little bit more time we will farm this dungeons for loot we wasted more time on maze then on all 3 bosses together and the split is random so you need to go save the person so you lose some time.
    Last boss first 2 golem are very easy like not a challenge at all nothing to watch out, you put boss to light or dark and just kill him.
    third golem is a little bit challenge until you position him fast and burn boss , black hole is good but overall damage and health of the boss is low.
    Last boss if you are range dps you life is easier like most dungeons.

    Overall dungeon is fun very nice looking good job there ,the nerf i think went a little bit too much don't know for where is aimed on what difficulty scale .
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  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    There is an issue on the 3rd arena of the maze where you can leave that area early while enemies are still present and run up the stairs to stop the darkness.

    There are ways to pass the inner chamber?(Just before the final boss) without fighting enemies going up the stairs to stop the darkness. Might be related to my point above. Really not sure when we are supposed to leave that area because we were racing against the timer. One run we had big shamblers(maybe) we had to kill before stopping the darkness, another we had none.

    You can become stuck after stopping the darkness if you do so while there are enemies present. We had to do a full party wipe and redo the maze because we stopped the darkness blocking our path backwards, but we also couldn't trigger the final boss door. Enemies continued coming up the stairs through the barrier of stopped darkness.
  • cust0mxcust0mx Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    Bug? not sure what happened here, unless i did the mechanic wrong, but i got frozen whitout standing in the red aoe



  • carloswartune#5709 carloswartune Member Posts: 239 Arc User
    cust0mx said:

    Bug? not sure what happened here, unless i did the mechanic wrong, but i got frozen whitout standing in the red aoe



    Someone was standing in the red (you can see one of the pemafrosts is clearly outside the safe area) and the freeze is AoE: if someone stands in the red and is close to the rest of the party, the entire party gets frozen. You need to make sure everyone is inside the safe area. The tank needs to be specially careful not to be outside.
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User
    edited February 3
    .
  • theelusiveone#4954 theelusiveone Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    @lassor
    First off I have to say I have not played the new dungeon on preview, so this is just a feeling I'm getting by reading here and on Discord.

    Seems to me like you listen a LOT (too much) to super high end game players and tune this dungeon based on their feedback.
    A lot of the players on preview are not the normal average non BiS players. Many on preview are people that know the game in and out, have the BiS gear or can easily get it cause they have a ton of Zen/AD. If you only tune this dungeon to them, you will end up frustrating the heck out of your majority of players.

    Also this is a dungeon not a trial and should not be tuned to be as hard as a trial. Of course it should also not be a cakewalk, but just be careful to not just tune it based on the feedback of the very vocal minority of players here and on preview.
    Kevfire
    Guild Leader
    Neverwinter SOLO Alliance
  • coolgor28#5062 coolgor28 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    Well at first at least need to be a little hard will be the only new thing for like 6 months, is a little let down we beat first 2 bosses in first try and the third in 3 tries and half party was their first time, Players want some motivation to run it to have to learn it to be better to do some mechanics. The nerf was a little to much.
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  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,396 Arc User

    @lassor
    First off I have to say I have not played the new dungeon on preview, so this is just a feeling I'm getting by reading here and on Discord.

    Seems to me like you listen a LOT (too much) to super high end game players and tune this dungeon based on their feedback.
    A lot of the players on preview are not the normal average non BiS players. Many on preview are people that know the game in and out, have the BiS gear or can easily get it cause they have a ton of Zen/AD. If you only tune this dungeon to them, you will end up frustrating the heck out of your majority of players.

    Also this is a dungeon not a trial and should not be tuned to be as hard as a trial. Of course it should also not be a cakewalk, but just be careful to not just tune it based on the feedback of the very vocal minority of players here and on preview.

    It's hard, but it's fun! Last time through was about 2 hours. But isn't that the point of the newest latest and greatest content? Made for after you've completed previous stuff? Once you learn and understand the mechanics it goes quicker and easier. Content before now was like this as well, just the power creep in the game let you skip mechanics that you might not of known were there.

    I remember codg when it first came out when no one could do it and it was the latest and greatest too hard thing. It quickly became a 7 minute smash n grab trial.

    TiC came out, boss mechanics were as many said "impossible". Fighting over what healer to come because many thought it could only be done with 1 type. Turns out mechanics are managable and any healer can do it.

    Your first time in the dungeon I would expect some wipes.

    Also, it's a scaled dungeon opening the doors to lots of folks. But again, it's the latest and greatest content. It's gonna be hard for a while!
  • kstubble#4883 kstubble Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited February 4
    IMO regarding this and other dungeons and trials - hardcore players need challenging versions casual players need fun and doable versions. keep normal version fun and doable by a player who meets the entry requirements with campaign rewards intact (like the campaign dungeon armor or weapon sets) and provide hardcore/master option/version with accessory but desirable rewards while not excluding the casual player from the campaign rewards (like the master zariel and tomm trial for the weapons). doing one way or the other way can potentially exclude either the casual player or the endgame player. if a player can complete the campaigns they should have a shot at the armor and or weapon sets provided by the campaign (not a cakewalk, but still possible without hours/days/weeks/months of "training"). offer endgame players a challenge with hardcore/master and complement the challenge by providing desirable additional rewards to farm, like maybe increasing the loot chances for the armor/weapons/rings/artifacts/companions/consumables/transmutes etc to drop.
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 670 Arc User
    reg1981 said:

    @lassor
    First off I have to say I have not played the new dungeon on preview, so this is just a feeling I'm getting by reading here and on Discord.

    Seems to me like you listen a LOT (too much) to super high end game players and tune this dungeon based on their feedback.
    A lot of the players on preview are not the normal average non BiS players. Many on preview are people that know the game in and out, have the BiS gear or can easily get it cause they have a ton of Zen/AD. If you only tune this dungeon to them, you will end up frustrating the heck out of your majority of players.

    Also this is a dungeon not a trial and should not be tuned to be as hard as a trial. Of course it should also not be a cakewalk, but just be careful to not just tune it based on the feedback of the very vocal minority of players here and on preview.

    It's hard, but it's fun! Last time through was about 2 hours. But isn't that the point of the newest latest and greatest content? Made for after you've completed previous stuff? Once you learn and understand the mechanics it goes quicker and easier. Content before now was like this as well, just the power creep in the game let you skip mechanics that you might not of known were there.

    I remember codg when it first came out when no one could do it and it was the latest and greatest too hard thing. It quickly became a 7 minute smash n grab trial.

    TiC came out, boss mechanics were as many said "impossible". Fighting over what healer to come because many thought it could only be done with 1 type. Turns out mechanics are managable and any healer can do it.

    Your first time in the dungeon I would expect some wipes.

    Also, it's a scaled dungeon opening the doors to lots of folks. But again, it's the latest and greatest content. It's gonna be hard for a while!
    With powercreep, casuals counted on content becoming accessable to them after a while. Codg was also widely adjusted over the times (not because of the same type of casuals, rather because it "had" to be in RTQ and accessible to anybody that knew where to find UM intro chest).
    If people can still count on that - then let the people that need it as a novelty play first. As usual. There is some more issues to get casuals on a schedule to run content that takes that long - altho I am sure people manage that as well.
    - bye bye -
  • theelusiveone#4954 theelusiveone Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    lassor said:


    Seems to me like you listen a LOT (too much) to super high end game players and tune this dungeon based on their feedback.
    A lot of the players on preview are not the normal average non BiS players. Many on preview are people that know the game in and out, have the BiS gear or can easily get it cause they have a ton of Zen/AD. If you only tune this dungeon to them, you will end up frustrating the heck out of your majority of players.

    I listen to anyone that takes the time to test the dungeon and give their feedback. There is no barrier to entry for giving feedback so if you believe there are players better suited to represent the general player base then I suggest you encourage them to test it out to offer up their thoughts. I understand that many of the players that do participate are highly skilled and geared and I keep that in mind when making an evaluation.
    Thank you for your reply. I'm glad to hear that you do take the higher level of skill and gear of preview players into account.
    That gives me hope that this dungeon will be challenging instead of extremely frustrating.
    I do try to encourage my alliance to try out preview and I do some testing myself. But sadly time is a limiting factor for myself and I assume many of my alliance members as well.
    Kevfire
    Guild Leader
    Neverwinter SOLO Alliance
  • lassorlassor Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 60 Cryptic Developer
    edited February 5
    Another patch! Here's what has been changed on the Royal Gardener:

    - Corpse health increased by 10%
    - Royal Gardener health increased by 15%
    - Na'Goth health increased by 20%
    - Shambling Mounds are now 5 dot enemies, upgraded from 4 dot
    - Increased the heal on the Shambling Mound's Well Fed buff

    Known Issues
    - Standing too close to a Corpse Flower impacted by Trim the Weeds can cause the player to get hit.
    - Intercepting Explosive Growth close to a Corpse Flower can result in it still becoming empowered.

    Some players are concerned that this may make the fight too difficult. I'll be around watching groups tackle the dungeon today and over the weekend. I'm prepared to pull some of these increases back or even remove them altogether if I'm seeing bad results. I obviously won't be able to watch everyone so make sure you voice your opinions on the current tuning. I'll be making one more round of adjustments after this, if necessary, then we're ready to launch.
  • ruigat911ruigat911 Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited February 6
    So, when will the "Known Issues" be resolved, have you been writing about them regularly for a month now, and they have not yet been resolved, and there are 3 days left before the module is released?
  • nova#2306 nova Member Posts: 139 Arc User
    ruigat911 said:

    So, when will the "Known Issues" be resolved, have you been writing about them regularly for a month now, and they have not yet been resolved, and there are 3 days left before the module is released?

    Don't think it's been confirmed the dungeon is launching at the release. As history shows us, the past dungeons we're unlocked through the campaign
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