You've gone too far... literally!

xiro · January 2021

Ok... where to start? First, yes this is a rant, but I'll try to keep it somewhat professional.

For context, I'm a Trickster Rogue with now 50,001 item level, 600k HP, 100% comp bolster, and 100% mount bolster. I'm also a Product Manager by career who works with technical teams to deliver proprietary software. I work for one of the largest ISPs in the US. Our annual budget for software development (on my team alone) is in the tens of millions. I bring this up because most of my complaints are around the way your product is managed and I understand the development process (both agile and waterfall), requirements elicitation, software delivery, QA/UAT, general SDLC, etc. Not likely that this will add any weight to my complaints, but one can hope.

The recent combat stat and companion changes are too drastic. I understand you're attempting to simplify things but these changes do anything but simplify.

Example: A percentage of my stats (now also a percent) are gained from "other sources" as indicated on the Character screen. What are other sources? Where do you provide players with this knowledge? Am I missing something?

Another example: On the new companion equip skills you list "Critical Chance" as a stat but there is no "Critical Chance" stat. The stat is "Critical Strike". Why add confusion when you're attempting to simplify? Are they the same or not? If they're the same, why a different name? If they're different, display the critical chance as a stat.

Another example (probably a defect): Why are some of the stats on companion equip skills greyed out? Does it mean I don't get that stat? Does it mean I get less? Does it mean anything?

Another example: The new companion management screen doesn't tell me which equip skills my companions have (player bonuses). You have to look at the icon in one companion window, then close that window, open another, different, companion window, find that icon (and hope it's the right one) to know which companion you want to upgrade based on equip bonuses.
Speaking of companions, why on earth would we want our companions sorted alphabetically? Is it alphabetically by the name we chose for them, or alphabetically by their given names? If it's by the name we gave them, I can't remember all those names (I'm old). Or why would we want them sorted from lowest to highest? At least provide an option to sort from highest to lowest. I think most people want to summon their higher level companions so putting them at the top makes more sense, and yes, I understand I can take advantage of the favorites system. Mount management is also difficult in this regard.

Another example: I looked at a stat that nicely provided hover context. I thought "Great! I can make sense of this since they're explaining it to me". As I read the context of the hover I started to develop a headache and my eyes went fuzzy trying to understand what it meant. (I wish I could recall the exact location of the hover.) So, according to the hover, I get a certain amount of the stat up to a certain percent of the stat (as compared to my IL) and then that percentage lowers after a certain percentage or some percentage of a percentage? WAIT, WHAT?!?! Who decided percentages were more simple to understand when the numbers cause the percentages to change (scale) based on item level? Looking at one character with 90% of a stat compared to another player with 90% of the same stat means nothing because the percent is compared to item level (40% of 50k != 40% of 40k). So much for the notion of simplifying stats... Now I have to look at a player's item level AND their percentages to know if that player is worth two shites. And I can't see their stats unless I'm in the same instance of the same zone, so inspecting an item level is worthless (a DPS class could have high IL but unless they have the right gear, their percent stats could be incorrect for their class, but I can't know that unless I'm near them.)

Here's another quick complaint, while I'm at it. You took all of my UNBOUND enchantments and gave me BOUND enchantments to replace them (referring to bonding/radiant/empowered trade in). As I'm trying to balance my stats with this new system, if I chose the wrong enchantments, I have no way to trade them with other players, or sell them to buy something else. I can't trade them back in for something else. I'm stuck with them. And how do I know what gems I'm going to need with a completely new system until I start putting stuff in slots? You just stole tens of millions of AD from me.

Now, you've decided to improve dungeon scaling. Ok, I'm fine with that. I like a challenge. But how about you increase the rewards since it's more challenging?! If your goal is to make every dungeon equally as challenging regardless of (well, anything really) then the rewards should be equal across the board as well. I should *NOT* be getting level 30 items out of a level 30 dungeon as a level 80 player that's scaled down to level 30. I should be getting gear/items to match my level and the challenge. What incentive do I have to run low level content that's as challenging as high level content?

I have plenty more examples and complaints, and I would be happy to consult with the Product team. In the meantime, I've logged out of the game permanently unless some of this is cleaned up.

If a game isn't fun, don't play it, right?

Thanks

dreadheart · January 2021

I agree with you.
I've playing Neverwinter since it first came out and this change is the worst screw up yet.

highlyunstable · January 2021

My vote is Mod 6. That nearly destroyed this game. Mod 19.5 (current Mod) has similarities to Mod 6 with a touch of Mod 16 thrown in. We have to, once again, start all over and rebuild what was very fun and playable characters, that were easy to manage and build to .... THIS.

mayorofarta · January 2021

Once again you prove devs to be no match for this game's community. Unparallel feedback has been given to people failing to deliver any result worthwhile keeping this amazing community engaged. Seriously, the level of your message seems to be beyond their "skill". They can't even be in touch with reality anymore. Ask any experienced/veteran player and they'll tell you what the game desperately needs. Why they fail to listen again and again for years is beyond me.

plasticbat · January 2021

This is not even close to the worst. Lived through mod 6, this is nothing comparing with mod 6, mod 16.
Mod 6, no matter what you twisted, it would not help. The only help back then was changing tactic or cheat.
There have been countless rebuild since.
So far, it has a bit less disarray comparing with mod 16.

In mod 6, going through the dungeon, "everybody hide here, send John going in to kite one minion out, we all hit it, then next minion, ....".

flyball · January 2021

Again here we have a vet speaking in terms not everyone understands. What does itm level 50,000 even mean? ONly been playing for 2 months and vets descriptions mean nothing as I have no idea the references. As far as other mods have not played them so I cannot comment on which was worse.

What I can say was the game was very much enjoyable pre patch and I certainly was being challenged at appropriate level campaigns and quests for my characters. As it stands I cannot even survive in even the most basic and beginning areas like Ebon Downs and Neverdeath Grave Yd as a solo player. Yes I do random groups for dungeons, and join in the fun at killing dragons, but do not really wish to play the entire game as a group. As it stands the workshop is the only play I don't die and what is the fun in that.

Regardless if you are a power gamer or casual gamer, you play for fun and enjoyment. Heck if they want to make a challenge undo the last patch and create a hardcore mode where death is permanent. Even God characters would tread lightly in that kind of environment.

plasticbat · January 2021

Mod 16 was not too long ago. People said the same thing, before mod 16, it was enjoyable and it is not now (after mod 16). People asked for undo mod 16. Some people left and some people stayed.

Now, the "after mod 16" is again considered enjoyable (by another group of people) and after the current new change it is not. So, history repeats. Some people will leave and some people will stay. Then, in the future, after mod 2x, people will again say pre-mod 2x was enjoyable and it is not.

darthpotater · January 2021

Is hard to adapt for lot of people. Thats the main problem.

5 mins after the patch, there was people already asking "what is the best companion?, what is the new build? rotation?".

Hell 1% of people thinks and 99% just do what others tell them to do.

silente07 · January 2021

Mod 16 made everything cookie cutter. Super simplistic with a system that stated you need this number to be higher than that that number.
Wash Rinse Repeat.
All builds were almost identical and expensive to reach end game. But you could still solo map content and enjoy the world.
Now you can’t.
The AVERAGE player is going to rage quit before you patch all this up. Heck, end gamers are selling all their stuff and their guilds and bailing.
This is the part where you needed the five year old to check and see if your plan was good or not.
The complexity of pre mod 16 was enjoyable and led to variety.
This complexity leads to downloading another game.

kemnimtarkas · January 2021

silente07#2597 said:

...Heck, end gamers are selling all their stuff and their guilds and bailing.

This is the part where you needed the five year old to check and see if your plan was good or not.

The complexity of pre mod 16 was enjoyable and led to variety.

This complexity leads to downloading another game.

Wow, I didn't realize I was part of a trend. I created my first character in NWO in Feb of 2014. But I've been selling off my hoard since the release of the new mount collars grindfest - this rework just reinforces my decision.

kumaluca · January 2021

highlyunstable said:
My vote is Mod 6. That nearly destroyed this game. Mod 19.5 (current Mod) has similarities to Mod 6 with a touch of Mod 16 thrown in. We have to, once again, start all over and rebuild what was very fun and playable characters, that were easy to manage and build to .... THIS.

I quit for a year and a half after that one

highlyunstable · January 2021

I quit in Mod 6...came back half way through Mod 7... and the game just got better and better with each mod. 12.a and 12.b ( if you remember those Mods) until 15 were TRULY our Glory Days. That is when I really started putting money into the game, then quit after 16...came back near 18 and put money in. Now, time to rinse and maybe repeat.. maybe not. For right now.. I am done, just cannot do this anymore.... I am waving the white flag.

flyball · January 2021

Starting the game 2 months ago and finally getting a character to l60....I don't have ADs to spend on others unwanted gear nor do I have the free cash to spend to get zen coins. These chars were built by common sense and not reading some cookie cutter build. I prefer playing alone excepti dungeons and the like. Not really into PVP as I could care less about whose build is the strongest. I certainly have no eyes for the leaderboards.

Neither of my higher level characters are playable now. All areas are simply way overpowered as I am wiped out by even the smallest of mobs. Even trying to the 3 docs in the AT Basement I died 5 times. The new combat system complete sucks if you have not been around the game since inception and have or have had 1 of everything ir have $$$$ to spend to buy your godhood.

Those with Godlike chars, if they really want to challenge themselves start a new character. Don't buy your way to the top of your class. Stop taking the fun away from those just starting out and have not even begun any sort of end game. There is currently not a single campaign or story line that does not kill my 2 main chars multiple times in 15 minutes of play.

For as long as I have been playing I feel I should have sufficient gear as it is I am really wearing cardboard and fighting with a paper mache sword.

hustin1 · January 2021

plasticbat said:
This is not even close to the worst. Lived through mod 6, this is nothing comparing with mod 6, mod 16.
Mod 6, no matter what you twisted, it would not help. The only help back then was changing tactic or cheat.
There have been countless rebuild since.
So far, it has a bit less disarray comparing with mod 16.

In mod 6, going through the dungeon, "everybody hide here, send John going in to kite one minion out, we all hit it, then next minion, ....".

Remember Mod 8, known as ~~Underdark~~ Deadliest Catch? The *entire* server spent the mod out in Drowned Shore killing the giant crab 100 times per person to get the motes for Drowned Weapons. No matter what time of day you entered the map, people were maintaining a running tally of crab respawn times for half a dozen instances. When the person maintaining the instance list wanted to log off, he would pass it on to someone else to maintain.

It was both a beautiful example of server-wide cooperation and a sad commentary on the state of soloing in the game. The devs had kicked survivability in the teeth and those weapons were *mandatory* to stay alive.

I did that grind then on six alts. I've since gotten them for all but three alts (that's 17 out of 20, total) and I never got rid of them.

plasticbat · January 2021

hustin1 said:

Remember Mod 8, known as ~~Underdark~~ Deadliest Catch? The *entire* server spent the mod out in Drowned Shore killing the giant crab 100 times per person to get the motes for Drowned Weapons. No matter what time of day you entered the map, people were maintaining a running tally of crab respawn times for half a dozen instances. When the person maintaining the instance list wanted to log off, he would pass it on to someone else to maintain.

Similar list still happens for Ravenloft BHE during its 2x in a much smaller scale.
The Drowned Shore 100 BHE was less 'serious' than Fiery Pit 100 BHE back then. All DPS wanted Fiery Pit weapon.

bocephus · January 2021

Just had my level 80 Barbarian Dwarf with good gear (level 900+ with good artifacts), mounts and companions get slaughtered by 5 redcaps in the very beginning of War Makers Camp in Sharandar. No place to run to. No "tactics" are going to help. It's not a group dungeon, it's a solo quest. I have lots of radiant healing potions, but they don't help when a group of redcaps are killing you off in seconds.

Bottom line. The game was always repetitive, however, being forced to run through the "same old, same old" was bearable because I wasn't wasting a lot of time completing them. If they want to make the game like the original D&D (or like Baldur's Gate etc.), then create terabytes of new content and stop make us repeat the same quests over and over again. If my character is struggling to get through something new, it's bearable, but having my character die over and over struggling to get through repetitive tasks ... I'd rather mow the lawn.

flyball · January 2021

Also for those that ar sub L80...Going up a level is supposed to provide some improvement on one ability to survive....the new scaling makes the game even more difficult so leveling himders and hurst more than it helps.

plasticbat · January 2021

bocephus#7917 said:
Just had my level 80 Barbarian Dwarf with good gear (level 900+ with good artifacts), mounts and companions get slaughtered by 5 redcaps in the very beginning of War Makers Camp in Sharandar. No place to run to. No "tactics" are going to help. It's not a group dungeon, it's a solo quest. I have lots of radiant healing potions, but they don't help when a group of redcaps are killing you off in seconds.

Bottom line. The game was always repetitive, however, being forced to run through the "same old, same old" was bearable because I wasn't wasting a lot of time completing them. If they want to make the game like the original D&D (or like Baldur's Gate etc.), then create terabytes of new content and stop make us repeat the same quests over and over again. If my character is struggling to get through something new, it's bearable, but having my character die over and over struggling to get through repetitive tasks ... I'd rather mow the lawn.

In the old day, we could kite one redcap and deal with it one at the time. Yes, the very beginning group of 5. There was one redcap tougher than others in a group of 5. Yes, that was what we did in mod 6.

dolceamaro71 · January 2021

i' said, yesterday some friend in my guild said "this game become a play for win only for few high end players",this is unacceptable for me, i think it's better you change this fail or youll' risk you lost a lot of players..

madrigal · January 2021

what about the non advertised, no warning and not listed currency cap changes...why raise guild marks we can hold from 30k to 50k
and why drop the cap on refinement points from 100,000,000 to 50,000,000...i had 80,000,000 now i suddenly lose 30,000,000 with no notice?? no recompense?? im desperately upgrading set gear so i can 'waste' rp and then rp the gear at a later date to get some back

burtr · January 2021

Yes.. totally agree with the OP. I have an education and background in engineering. It doesn't really matter where I work though. If I were to put out a product that is as broken as this, then say "will fix on the go", I'm fairly sure that I will be unemployed by the next day.

So, let's say Mod 16 came out nearly 2 years ago. This new combat system change was announced (quietly) back in.. October? I will assume that someone didn't just decide on that exact day about totally reworking everything. Then it must have been thought and talked about for at least a few months before then, right? I've heard that these changes have been in the works for nearly a year now. This means that someone decided to throw everything about Mod 16 out the window about a year after it went live... and drove away a good chunk of long time players. Scaling was tried with Mod 16 too. That didn't go well either. Eventually, scaling was taken away. One question about this scaling. If I am going to be scaled down after working so hard to get up towards the upper end... in order to make the lower folks feel better about themselves... then why would anyone even want to gear up at all? Seems to me, like working towards higher IL doesn't mean a whole lot. Do all that work, put in all that time, for better gear... then go die in a middling dungeon with the some lvl 60 toon with noob gear. Awesome idea.

Soooo... what makes the devs think that scaling will work THIS time? How long before the next hurricane/tornado will come through and butcher THIS mod/change? Is someone already talking about "oh yeah, look at all the whiners... we'll wait until everyone settles down a bit... then throw another whole system change on them by next year... woot!?"

Again, I have posted in preview about this. I don't mind change. I have a toon for every class (tank/heals on pally, cleric, and lock). All of them were nearly 36k IL before the change. All of them are over 51k IL now and doing nearly as well as before. I can still solo most of the dungeons. I can solo Nightmare event with any toon right now. I can adapt to the change.

My biggest issue is "why should I have to?" every other year? What's so broken about the game that everyone has to deal with this... again? Having to adjust to these regular changes is getting old, real old.

How old? Look at my signup date for these ARC forums... 2011. Been playing since open beta... spring of 2013. Yes, I've been on this forum since before there was a Neverwinter game... merged from PWI forums. Been playing for years before that too.

I don't post much, because I was willing to roll with the punches before. Again, this is getting old.

This was supposed to make the game easier for new players, more balanced for others, simpler for everyone to understand...

If any dev is reading this.. just go stand in PE like you claim that you are doing... see how much easier/simpler these changes are.

For those that think this is same as mod 16... I don't think so. Those that said the old stat system was too easy to aim for. You know what? The majority of players that I saw were never too far above 30k IL. Quite a lot were below that even. Those that claim to be able to do endgame content with 29-32k IL were just leeches... leeching off their endgame guild/alliance and the handful of higher geared players. And yet.. they come on the forums or PE zone chat and claim that others should stop whining and leave the game.

Really surprised that some of these devs actually still have a job. Really, the only other job that I know of which has this much job security is probably being a Weather man... be wrong most of the time and still keep the job.

I will most likely not respond to nor track this post, so... meh. Done whining.. for now.

vastano · January 2021

this is where people who build tested on preview (probably a massive 1% of game population) are so far ahead of everyone else
i tested my build thouroughly over on preview when this hit with 0 warning all i did was logg onto preview and screen shoted my toon then came back to livbe and carried it over
i would suggest EVERYONE copies there char to preview (link here https://www.arcgames.com/en/my/character/copy/nw )
you can play with your build very easily and it costs nothing (can get as many tradebars as you want for 1 copper for 1000 from the ad store)
that way you will be able to make sure you get right enchants runestones and insignia without wasting your 1 free exchange on something wrong

nutinhoneys · January 2021

I started playing in 2014 and have taken a few breaks from the game because of work and RL issues but always enjoyed coming back, until now. I have spent hours and hours reworking and rebuilding just one of my characters without any hope. I`m an end game player fully stacked, buffed and boosted. I really enjoy recruiting teaching and training new players into our guild and alliances. That`s no longer possible, the game is completely broken now. It is literally impossible to make a "balanced" build I have access to any r15 enchant. any piece of gear, I have every boon, every mount, companion and no matter how you rebuild your character once you enter a dungeon the "scaling" changes everything to make your character broken and unplayable, you are set up to fail and your group to fail over and over. The game is not close to fun to play. Content is now broken worse than ever and the Devs just sit back and collect money earned from the zen store from newbs trying to buy a fix to problems out of their control. This game is only frustrating and a huge headache, now I am stuck with a VIP12 so I will only log in to collect my daily key & invoke and log back out until I hear they have fixed their Broken game. Good Bye Neverwinter, I hope you enjoy the loss of all my zen purchasing.

highlyunstable · January 2021

The ZAX backlog should be now closer a wait time of maybe a year? I mean, seriously, who is going to buy Zen now?? I quit buying back in OCT, and wanted to wait until after the update to buy another $200. (Usually buy $200 a month) OMG I am SOOO GLAD I WAITED. Cryptic has saved me $100's and $100's and $100's. I will login from time to time to see if anything has changed, if not, will probably just quit altogether and spend it elsewhere.

You've gone too far... literally!

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