If you are having trouble after combat rework, read this!

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  • ultramath#3953
    ultramath#3953 Member Posts: 143 Arc User


    Do you seriously think it's fun having to do all that just to be able to kill a single group of regular mobs when doing boring repetative quests while leveling your character? My new ranger is lvl 17 now and i struggle (and die) on most encounters even though ofcourse i avoid pulling more than one group at a time, utilizing combat advantage, and what-not. At-will abilities can pretty much be ignored since they do more or less 0 damage. And about insignias, mounts, geared companions and all that, should it REALLY be required to be able to progress through the game? I get that it gets more important lategame and to be able to play the more difficult content but as it is now, a low level character with quest-reward-class gear is getting stomped by regular mobs everywhere. And IF you think thats fun, if you have to use all tricks to be able to kill a regular mob, how are you supposed to handle a strong enemy, or a boss?

    I'm sorry you are having trouble. I wish I knew more about rangers so I could offer some detailed pointers. I can say this: bosses will be easier to handle than a group of say, 5 trash mobs, because you can avoid boss attacks and poke them full of arrows at range. If you get swarmed by little guys or ambushed by a bunch of archers you need to not just stand there and chug health potions. They are the real dangers now. Especially ranged trash. Because they can just keep shooting you over and over without having to do anything else unless you take cover behind something and make them reposition.

    I AM a bit concerned that you think at will powers are useless. Just for fun, I made myself kill some Chasm mob groups with just my at will AoE power (cleric gets one during the intro tutorial with Makos) and yeah it took longer than yesterday -- but they died and I didn't. My at will is 50 magnitude every 0.8 seconds. I am assuming the ranger one is probably better, as you are DPS. Maybe I'm wrong.
  • tluigi#0896
    tluigi#0896 Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited January 2021

    It's fine that tactics matters, it is not fine that tactic matters in areas in which my character should be much stronger than the mobs around, since it is way below my level. I could play with some challenge in Avernus and I never complained that mobs could kill me if I wasn't careful, but that was par for my level, now I die in areas where someone about 30 level lower should be able to play, how are they going to do that?

    Think about it. What this means for you is that your character level isn't as important as it used to be for PVE performance. Just adjust your mindset: instead of starting out as a freshly pimpled noob that somehow progresses to a literal demigod in the span of a few weeks of exercise, you now start out as a tough as nails beginner and progress into a hardened expert who still has to mind himself in a fight or get shot down by lowly goblins if he gets sloppy or lazy.

    No more Disney World... you're in the wild, now. Respect your enemies.
    Well, I respect my enemies. In Stronghold, I must kill 100 of them, and the new changes have made this very difficult. The quests like Demonic Escape, have become IMPOSSIBLE for me. For I DIE several times, and in the meantime time is running out. I am attacked by 7 to 12 mobs at the same time. What strategy, da solves this ?? The game should be fun, but as it is, I only see a positive change, that of Random Dungeons. P.S: I am level 80, with 20k ok level equip and I cap my defense. I think they want only top players
  • ultramath#3953
    ultramath#3953 Member Posts: 143 Arc User

    Sorry but a level 80 well equipped character SHOULD wade through a level 30 area like a stroll in the park. That is the whole point of leveling up and gearing up. To make certain areas easier and to make areas that were to hard accessible. Right now this is just a train wreck.

    You do. Since the update (like before) a geared 80 WILL stroll through say, Helms Hold (level 30 area), and wipe it out with ease. I was wrong in my earlier post about not becoming a demigod. You do. But the dungeons and scaled content are a little different now, and may require not running haphazardly through everything with impunity. Apparently you can fail leveling random dungeons now, due to scaling down of 80s and so on.

    Things are weird right now.
  • ultramath#3953
    ultramath#3953 Member Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    aletheion said:

    I just ran the Ghost repeatable. It was hard as hell. I died over and over and couldn't do it.



    Then, I swapped my follower to the Wayward Wizard and was able to complete it (took 40 minutes and I died twice).



    However, I noticed something that I wasn't really paying much attention to earlier which is certain creatures are super hard even though they are only 1 dot on their health bar. Specifically the Black Dragonclaw. I killed the boss easier than I could kill those guys. The huge 4 dot Iron Fire Golem (or whatever it was called) went down way faster than those guys. I'm starting to see a pattern in certain creatures that just tank everything and hit like a truck. I'll start making a note which ones are crazy hard.

    AHHH let me guess: they were giant-sized and glowing red?

    You gotta kill those guys fast before they transform into superheroes and stomp you. It may not be reasonably doable in the current state of damage that we are doing. You may need a party to do the instanced repeatables for the dragon campaign. Back when scaling was first introduced, we certainly needed a party, because getting scaled up to 70 (was the level cap back then) made you into a gigantic wuss. It took a while for the devs to fix that so you could solo it without being max level, iirc. Ghost Stories, Mithral Mines, Umm... I forget the rest of them lol

    Edit: As an aside, the fact that you stuck it out and finished it anyway is pretty darn impressive! Props.
  • gizmobandolio
    gizmobandolio Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    > @"ultramath#3953" said:
    > I'm sorry you are having trouble. I wish I knew more about rangers so I could offer some detailed pointers. I can say this: bosses will be easier to handle than a group of say, 5 trash mobs, because you can avoid boss attacks and poke them full of arrows at range. If you get swarmed by little guys or ambushed by a bunch of archers you need to not just stand there and chug health potions. They are the real dangers now. Especially ranged trash. Because they can just keep shooting you over and over without having to do anything else unless you take cover behind something and make them reposition.
    >
    > I AM a bit concerned that you think at will powers are useless. Just for fun, I made myself kill some Chasm mob groups with just my at will AoE power (cleric gets one during the intro tutorial with Makos) and yeah it took longer than yesterday -- but they died and I didn't. My at will is 50 magnitude every 0.8 seconds. I am assuming the ranger one is probably better, as you are DPS. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Im not at my computer so i cant check magnitude of at-wills. But i know i cant kill an enemy only using those before it kills me. I dont stand still soaking damage, after i spam all encounter skills and at-wills, i switch stance, jump behind the group, attack them in the back with all 3 melee encounter skills, jump back and start attacking them in the back with ranged again. By now they have split between ranged and melee enemies (if they are mixed) and one of the groups will now be able to hit me. Here is where it goes to hell. I have brought all of them down maybe 20% and one specific taget down perhaps 50%. They will now bring pretty much all my HP down while i await my cooldowns. I jump around, trying to dodge and avoid being hit while spamming at-wills but approx 50% of the encounters, this is where i die. I dont have a lot of options skillwise yet, so this is what i have to work with. And I agree with several other people Here - thats just not fun. I use potions when im far from a respawn point, but its to expensive to use them all the time.
  • ultramath#3953
    ultramath#3953 Member Posts: 143 Arc User

    I'm only a few posts in but I think ultramath (a misnomer for sure) sounds like the guy who devised this new system.

    I can see why you would think that. Let's say I confirm this. Should I be believed?

    Or maybe this is just my third day of a week-long vacation from work and I'm having fun playing a video game and chatting about it on the forums.

    The fun part is there is no way for you to know. Maybe I'm the CEO of Cryptic trolling the playerbase after ramming through a bunch of changes I knew you would complain about, and your general saltiness is making me giggle.

    It's not like I haven't clearly been trying to help people the whole time, right? Do you honestly think I have any control over what shape this game takes? Do YOU have any control over it?

    Could it be that you are simply frustrated, and I make a convenient target because I am not towing the "hate everything" party line? Do we need another whinefest thread? I'm trying to make the best of a bad situation here, and I realize that complaining louder isn't going to help.

    I am guessing they fix a couple of bugged zones, maybe tweak the dungeons, nerf the starting area mobs (maybe stuff like Ghost Stories too), and not much else. I could be wrong, but I bet I'm not. The days of facerolling this game are probably gone.

    You can always quit.
  • flyball#6248
    flyball#6248 Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    I started play about 2 months ago. The game was fun and at level appropriate areas I had to plan and use strategy. I do not have a level 80 character, and at this point it seems impossible to attain as even starting level areas are way over-powered and I have no means to improve the gear I currently have. In a few words the game has gone from being a fun game to no fun at all. From the sound of many posts I can tell that many are experiencing the same. Perhaps old farts that have played since games creation and have bought all the best gear and feel they lack any real challenge are happy, but that does not help the rest of us have an enjoyable gaming experience. Even using daily powers I cannot even clear trash mobs. Dying 20 times in the neverdeath graveyard s not my idea of fun. Can't even ride past any mobs while mounted.

    This patch is a failure and new players like myself may just have to go back to WoW or other games.
  • hexngone#5489
    hexngone#5489 Member Posts: 366 Arc User


    I (and many others) feel you pain. Since Sharandar is about to disappear, I've been trying to get my fresh 80 profession alts through the quests to obtain the boon points.

    Don't waste your time.
    In New Sharandar, players without the original Sharandar boons will receive double Boon Points for each boon reward. Players with the Original Sharandar Boons will receive single boon points for each boon reward.
    um, some of us are doing the campaigns in order and only configuring our chars with what we need for the area we are in. I expect to get to Undermountain sometime in 2022 ... and the 'new' Sharandar in 2024. Just because it is there, doesn't mean I ignore the rest of the unfinished parts of the game to play it (the new Path of the Fallen announcement included). I don't agree with the Dev position that everyone should jump to the end (what 'we created'). I'm here to enjoy the ride, no matter how tedious. ... and personally, there was nothing wrong with the existing Sharandar that warranted replacement. Add and new area, but leave the parts of the game that actually work alone. Just my opinion, ymmv
  • stark760
    stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User

    Sorry but a level 80 well equipped character SHOULD wade through a level 30 area like a stroll in the park. That is the whole point of leveling up and gearing up. To make certain areas easier and to make areas that were to hard accessible. Right now this is just a train wreck.

    You do. Since the update (like before) a geared 80 WILL stroll through say, Helms Hold (level 30 area), and wipe it out with ease. I was wrong in my earlier post about not becoming a demigod. You do. But the dungeons and scaled content are a little different now, and may require not running haphazardly through everything with impunity. Apparently you can fail leveling random dungeons now, due to scaling down of 80s and so on.

    Things are weird right now.
    I think most would use a different word than weird to describe the game right now
  • regenerde
    regenerde Member Posts: 2,993 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    Well, how did you get the AD to buy that companion?
    - uncommon Wayward Wizard -> 20k AD
    - rare Wayward Wizard -> 200k AD
    You need an IL of 15k to get into Random Dungeon Queues to earn rAD.

    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • fademist#5406
    fademist#5406 Member Posts: 58 Arc User
    it puzzles me that ppl have issues with this changes...
  • ultramath#3953
    ultramath#3953 Member Posts: 143 Arc User
    regenerde said:

    Well, how did you get the AD to buy that companion?
    - uncommon Wayward Wizard -> 20k AD
    - rare Wayward Wizard -> 200k AD
    You need an IL of 15k to get into Random Dungeon Queues.

    There is a quest after you get done with the Tower District. They give you a free companion at the end of it from that guy inside the companion building. You can choose a dog, fighter, healer, etc., I chose the wayward wizard. It's white rarity, but still can cast AoE slows that last for a pretty decent amount of time. It was VERY helpful in the kobold sewers, and I'm pretty sure if I didn't have that guy (I named him Giggles) helping me out I couldn't have managed without dying WAY more than I already did; or giving up on my stupid ego trip and using potions.
  • ultramath#3953
    ultramath#3953 Member Posts: 143 Arc User


    At this point, thinking about working on my lvl 7 cleric that have used in months and just run around handing out random heals lol

    DOOD

    My cleric is handling leveling just fine. I definitely hand out random heals as often as I can. I saw a DPS warlock doing great in the Chasm. Not every class is hurting, even with the patch the way it is right now. But I would advise people to not roll a new GWF for a while! It's fun enough getting all hulked out, and you definitely kick some butt, but there's nothing to really stop that glaring tactical disadvantage of having to chase down ranged mobs, get in their face, and try to kill them as fast as you can while the other ranged mobs tee off on you. I kept wishing I had a better Atwill AoE than that lunge you get at level 2. I think it would have made a big difference in some fights If I had WMS or Wicked Strike instead of that lunge I never really used.
  • aodfireraven
    aodfireraven Member Posts: 34 Arc User

    it puzzles me that ppl have issues with this changes...

    Congrats. Do you want a cookie or something for your vague statement w/o qualifying what level you are using?
  • regenerde
    regenerde Member Posts: 2,993 Arc User
    edited January 2021

    regenerde said:

    Well, how did you get the AD to buy that companion?
    - uncommon Wayward Wizard -> 20k AD
    - rare Wayward Wizard -> 200k AD
    You need an IL of 15k to get into Random Dungeon Queues.

    There is a quest after you get done with the Tower District. They give you a free companion at the end of it from that guy inside the companion building. You can choose a dog, fighter, healer, etc., I chose the wayward wizard. It's white rarity, but still can cast AoE slows that last for a pretty decent amount of time. It was VERY helpful in the kobold sewers, and I'm pretty sure if I didn't have that guy (I named him Giggles) helping me out I couldn't have managed without dying WAY more than I already did; or giving up on my stupid ego trip and using potions.
    Well, during my Cloak Tower run i had at least two players in there without any companion, i dare say that's not that unusual at lower levels. Most new players don't know that they should check back with Sgt. Knox for companion/mount/artifact quests. And unless something was changed, they can't even ask for help in game chat that early either.

    Anyway, my Fighter has Defense over 70%, and even with blocking and moving around to avoid any Combat Advantage damage from enemies my HP were regularly just melting away... so no, i'm not just complaining about something without even trying it out properly, but i've reached a point where i'm just wondering WHAT THE UNHOLY HAMSTER i can do to get through this mess!
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • ultramath#3953
    ultramath#3953 Member Posts: 143 Arc User
    regenerde said:


    Well, during my Cloak Tower run i had at least two players in there without any companion, i dare say that's not that unusual at lower levels. Most new players don't know that they should check back with Sgt. Knox for companion/mount/artifact quests. And unless something was changed, they can't even ask for help in game chat that early either.

    Anyway, my Fighter has Defense over 70%, and even with blocking and moving around to avoid any Combat Advantage damage from enemies my HP were regularly just melting away...

    I have a feeling that after this current hotfix, the dungeons may not be so outlandish as they were today. Sometimes I think Cryptic is a little like Bethesda with pushing out "not quite finished" coding, so the players can playtest it for them. lol
  • flyball#6248
    flyball#6248 Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    There was a patch that came out not too log ago and still This game is just not worth playing as they have patched the fun out of it. I don't mind a challenge, but I was challenged enough in the pre-patch version. The fun has left the game so hopefully enough players will leave for them to realize their mistake in taking the fun out of the game.
  • baltboy#0562
    baltboy#0562 Member Posts: 6 Arc User

    Sorry but a level 80 well equipped character SHOULD wade through a level 30 area like a stroll in the park. That is the whole point of leveling up and gearing up. To make certain areas easier and to make areas that were to hard accessible. Right now this is just a train wreck.

    You do. Since the update (like before) a geared 80 WILL stroll through say, Helms Hold (level 30 area), and wipe it out with ease. I was wrong in my earlier post about not becoming a demigod. You do. But the dungeons and scaled content are a little different now, and may require not running haphazardly through everything with impunity. Apparently you can fail leveling random dungeons now, due to scaling down of 80s and so on.

    Things are weird right now.
    So logged on to see they did a patch. Ran several areas of differing levels fighting open world monsters, did a no rune ME, village rune works in vallenhas. Things felt pretty normal. Icewind dale however still feels way out of whack even in the open map it is still way harder than before without a mob.

    looks like my overall IL was knocked down a bit as well. See how the randoms go tomorrow.......
  • netherdragon#0997
    netherdragon#0997 Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    enemies are still too strong the patch didn't do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
  • shadowstarhtid#1607
    shadowstarhtid#1607 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    Just to add my 2 cents for what it is worth i guess, new, few days in was enjoying the game actually, i feel like the progression of leveling was fine, even had to level and or gear up and go back to a few areas to finish them so i'm confused to why such a drastic change was implied... Anyway, update slammed me face 1st into a wall, can't go back and do quests to continue leveling as i have done them, can't do stronghold guild quests as i get smashed in level appropriate areas, and can't continues forwards cuz same issue, also confused to why this ultramath b*llsh*tter is even trying to defend this, the same enemies are not as equally as strong as each other in the exact same mobs some times, so this dude has clearly tries absolutely fk all of this update, do not respond ultramoron i have been watching you trip over literally everything you have said, please be quiet. you are clearly a moron, you obviously have no idea what you are talking bout, you are swimming against the tide and obviously have tried none of the content go away. If the enemies stay anything like they have been i won't be playing, i don't like the idea of this combat tweak, i liked how it was, it is why i was fkn playing.
  • ultramath#3953
    ultramath#3953 Member Posts: 143 Arc User
    Well, just checked out the hotfix with my GWF. I wish I could go back to the sewers or plague tower, but the areas are done now, so I reverted back to 5.2K TIL by putting back on all my old tutorial gear and messed around with some orc axe hurlers. And it looks like they haven't "fixed" the damage back to what most people are going to be happy with yet. A single axe hurler ranged attack is still hitting for more than the Ogre's slow overhead smash, and they are more durable and take longer to kill than an ogre as well. They seem to have been nerfed somewhat compared to yesterday, but probably still need to get adjusted if they want the patch to make logical sense to players. Either make the Ogres tougher (unlikely), or tone the hurlers down some more than they have already. You can still get overwhelmed pretty fast if you pull a bunch of axe hurlers and then ignore them while you attack a melee mob. Unless you prioritize ranged trash, you're in trouble with the Tower District still.

    But I am happy to report that Blackdagger Ruins pirate archers are nowhere near the threat that other ranged trash are. Archers can be safely put on the back burner, for the most part, unless you pull a BUNCH of them. I did have to pick a fighter player up near the Xalliana area, but I think he was lagging because I saw him later and he was doing fine.

    I don't think people are going to have a super-hard time with the blackdagger area at all, just from my poking around you can tell it's not as intense as the Tower district at all. Those axe hurlers... it's like the hurlers from the kobold sewers. For some reason whoever is in charge of this stuff made a few of the ranged trash mobs super-deadly. I bet there's a decimal point missing from some number in their server config file or something. I can't believe that they want axe hurlers to be more powerful than ogres like this on purpose.
  • gizmobandolio
    gizmobandolio Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    > @"ultramath#3953" said:
    > Well, just checked out the hotfix with my GWF. I wish I could go back to the sewers or plague tower, but the areas are done now, so I reverted back to 5.2K TIL by putting back on all my old tutorial gear and messed around with some orc axe hurlers. And it looks like they haven't "fixed" the damage back to what most people are going to be happy with yet. A single axe hurler ranged attack is still hitting for more than the Ogre's slow overhead smash, and they are more durable and take longer to kill than an ogre as well. They seem to have been nerfed somewhat compared to yesterday, but probably still need to get adjusted if they want the patch to make logical sense to players. Either make the Ogres tougher (unlikely), or tone the hurlers down some more than they have already. You can still get overwhelmed pretty fast if you pull a bunch of axe hurlers and then ignore them while you attack a melee mob. Unless you prioritize ranged trash, you're in trouble with the Tower District still.
    >
    > But I am happy to report that Blackdagger Ruins pirate archers are nowhere near the threat that other ranged trash are. Archers can be safely put on the back burner, for the most part, unless you pull a BUNCH of them. I did have to pick a fighter player up near the Xalliana area, but I think he was lagging because I saw him later and he was doing fine.
    >
    > I don't think people are going to have a super-hard time with the blackdagger area at all, just from my poking around you can tell it's not as intense as the Tower district at all. Those axe hurlers... it's like the hurlers from the kobold sewers. For some reason whoever is in charge of this stuff made a few of the ranged trash mobs super-deadly. I bet there's a decimal point missing from some number in their server config file or something. I can't believe that they want axe hurlers to be more powerful than ogres like this on purpose.

    Im at the kobold sewers now. Thats where i gave up yesterday after being slaughtered several times. The hurlers are as dangerous as they were yesterday. My at-will does ~300 damage to them, i dont know how much health they have but a guesstimate from the visuals is it would take maybe 50-60 arrows to finish one hurler.

    EDIT: Just finished it, died maybe 5-6 times in total. Boss + dragonshield is a joke, i lost 0 HP during that encounter, but 3 hurlers kills me 50% of the time.
    Post edited by gizmobandolio on
  • fungo#7952
    fungo#7952 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    Both my warrior (lvl 65) and my pally (80) tank have trouble doing anything solo right now. I even tried to go 15 levels below my level as my warrior. I tried to fight a group of random mobs, and I only survived because I used a health stone.

    As my cleric (dps) the mobs seemed to hit a little harder, though I killed them just as fast as before.

    I am a pretty casual player, but this just feels really bad. I had hoped to spend more time in Neverwinter in the new mod once it is out. But I don't see that happening now unfortunately.
  • ultramath#3953
    ultramath#3953 Member Posts: 143 Arc User


    Im at the kobold sewers now. Thats where i gave up yesterday after being slaughtered several times. The hurlers are as dangerous as they were yesterday. My at-will does ~300 damage to them, i dont know how much health they have but a guesstimate from the visuals is it would take maybe 50-60 arrows to finish one hurler.



    EDIT: Just finished it, died maybe 5-6 times in total. Boss + dragonshield is a joke, i lost 0 HP during that encounter, but 3 hurlers kills me 50% of the time.

    Wow, that was good man. After going through that area myself yesterday, i have to give props to anyone who finishes it lol. A shame that they didn't get that one in the hotfix, but there's no way that they are done with this patch as it is now. More fixes are coming for sure.
  • ultramath#3953
    ultramath#3953 Member Posts: 143 Arc User
    And an update: I cleared Blackdagger Ruins, my trash GWF is now lev25. Still no potions. Which is dumb as hell of me, seeing as how every issue I had with combat could have been instantly solved by a health pot. Just one would have been plenty. But oh well.

    Something new about the area though, and some of you may have noticed it as well because it is kinda glaringly obvious: the buffer mobs like the big gnolls that do the roar that buffs their allies? Yeah, those guys are real nasty now. If they buff more than one or two guys, especially if they are archers, it is a good idea to fall back (behind cover if necessary) and not engage them until the buff falls off in like 5 secs or so. That red glowing buff is now pretty severe, they have to be doing at least double damage and have twice as much defense from that. You definitely notice the difference now.

    The artifact area was pretty easy, no troubles there. The boss instances like hexbane and foultooth were nasty at the end because of boss summons. It's not a cakewalk anymore. You can get overwhelmed by the adds. Same with Jareth Grim, only worse. Potions would have been really nice. But even then, you might need to retreat and take them down in stages with your companion pulling some of the aggro off of you so you have some breathing room. Just standing there and absorbing the add damage is something only the overgeared will be able to get away with now.
  • mentinmindmaker
    mentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,375 Arc User
    I think there are two different issues here:
    * Yes, game is harder. It is supposed to be harder. It has become too easy over time. You are not *supposed* to be able to solo small HE's, for instance. Adapt and carry on.
    * But obviously game has become too hard in places. When people complain about not being able to do their level-appropriate quests, game has become way too hard. Level-appropriate quests should be doable with relative ease with the gear provided by those quests. Cryptic obviously missed some testing here.