Well, if they have bank NPCs/the teleport stone/campfire in that area, it would become a useful quest hub... dear Devs, when you take something (old campaign) away, at the very least make the "new" thing actually better.
> I agree they have been removing stuff for a long time, I've written about it before, I think Rhix's daily quests were the first thing I objected to, but this is the first time they will be removing an entire visitable permanent location which people can go to anytime and hang out in and not have to do anything in particular, just be there and enjoy it. And yup, we don't own anything, but with respect to you, I'm kind of sick of people using this line of logic as a means to excuse the mistreatment of it's playerbase by the company.
It's not an excuse by any means. Playing this game is a choice. It's a choice of how to spend your free time. Everything I have mentioned is in the Terms of Service, which players agree to before playing this game. If you disagree with how a company treats it's customers, do you shop in that store, do you eat at that restaurant? No. You choose to go elsewhere. Everyone has different levels of tolerance, and that's up to the individual to decide when it's their time to go elsewhere. You can air your grievances here, but it would seem that the decisions are made and plans are already in motion. In almost 8 years, I have yet to see a change of direction this far into the process, even when there was an uproar on these forums. It's going to happen. So that leaves players with a choice, no one is forcing anyone to stay. As harsh as that may sound, it's the truth. The choice is up to you.
Yea it is an excuse. Just because a company CAN do something legally, doesn't really directly relate to the concerns raised about what they are doing to the players. It's just a blanket excuse some of you use in order to say shut up and stop whinging when there are very valid concerns about how the game is being dismantled and how it affects the people who support it and invest thousands of hours of their valuable time and effort into it.
Apparently pointing-out the bleeding obvious is a 'personal attack'.
> @rockster#6227 said: > Yea it is an excuse. Just because a company CAN do something legally, doesn't really directly relate to the concerns raised about what they are doing to the players. It's just a blanket excuse some of you use in order to say shut up and stop whinging when there are very valid concerns about how the game is being dismantled and how it affects the people who support it and invest thousands of hours of their valuable time and effort into it.
All of the answers you seek can be found in the Terms of Service. I would suggest you review it. I hope doing so gives you a clearer perspective of the role customers/players have in the development process.
"I don't know, I'm making it up as I go..." Featured Foundry Quest:Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
> I agree they have been removing stuff for a long time, I've written about it before, I think Rhix's daily quests were the first thing I objected to, but this is the first time they will be removing an entire visitable permanent location which people can go to anytime and hang out in and not have to do anything in particular, just be there and enjoy it. And yup, we don't own anything, but with respect to you, I'm kind of sick of people using this line of logic as a means to excuse the mistreatment of it's playerbase by the company.
It's not an excuse by any means. Playing this game is a choice. It's a choice of how to spend your free time. Everything I have mentioned is in the Terms of Service, which players agree to before playing this game. If you disagree with how a company treats it's customers, do you shop in that store, do you eat at that restaurant? No. You choose to go elsewhere. Everyone has different levels of tolerance, and that's up to the individual to decide when it's their time to go elsewhere. You can air your grievances here, but it would seem that the decisions are made and plans are already in motion. In almost 8 years, I have yet to see a change of direction this far into the process, even when there was an uproar on these forums. It's going to happen. So that leaves players with a choice, no one is forcing anyone to stay. As harsh as that may sound, it's the truth. The choice is up to you.
Yea it is an excuse. Just because a company CAN do something legally, doesn't really directly relate to the concerns raised about what they are doing to the players. It's just a blanket excuse some of you use in order to say shut up and stop whinging when there are very valid concerns about how the game is being dismantled and how it affects the people who support it and invest thousands of hours of their valuable time and effort into it.
To continue the uhm "McD's analogy" from the prior page. How do you plan to stop the evil corporate machine from removing your clown with just a cheese burger? Maybe you should apply for work at the evil corporate empire? I believe they are hiring entry level positions and then you could experience life within the Deathstar. Oops! I mixed my metaphors.
To express this in song, But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well. You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself.
> I agree they have been removing stuff for a long time, I've written about it before, I think Rhix's daily quests were the first thing I objected to, but this is the first time they will be removing an entire visitable permanent location which people can go to anytime and hang out in and not have to do anything in particular, just be there and enjoy it. And yup, we don't own anything, but with respect to you, I'm kind of sick of people using this line of logic as a means to excuse the mistreatment of it's playerbase by the company.
It's not an excuse by any means. Playing this game is a choice. It's a choice of how to spend your free time. Everything I have mentioned is in the Terms of Service, which players agree to before playing this game. If you disagree with how a company treats it's customers, do you shop in that store, do you eat at that restaurant? No. You choose to go elsewhere. Everyone has different levels of tolerance, and that's up to the individual to decide when it's their time to go elsewhere. You can air your grievances here, but it would seem that the decisions are made and plans are already in motion. In almost 8 years, I have yet to see a change of direction this far into the process, even when there was an uproar on these forums. It's going to happen. So that leaves players with a choice, no one is forcing anyone to stay. As harsh as that may sound, it's the truth. The choice is up to you.
Yea it is an excuse. Just because a company CAN do something legally, doesn't really directly relate to the concerns raised about what they are doing to the players. It's just a blanket excuse some of you use in order to say shut up and stop whinging when there are very valid concerns about how the game is being dismantled and how it affects the people who support it and invest thousands of hours of their valuable time and effort into it.
To continue the uhm "McD's analogy" from the prior page. How do you plan to stop the evil corporate machine from removing your clown with just a cheese burger? Maybe you should apply for work at the evil corporate empire? I believe they are hiring entry level positions and then you could experience life within the Deathstar. Oops! I mixed my metaphors.
To express this in song, But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well. You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself.
that is very very true but if you lived here in the uk look at some of the best loved stores over here they all learned the hard way if you want to keep your directors happy keep the customers happy if there is no customers there is no company you can keep quoting tos and the fact it is cryptics company and they can do what they like all day long and you are correct
however you annoy enough players badly enough (and remember its only a tiny fraction of the playerbase come here) they will go play another game enough leave and the game ends no ifs no buts no maybes no customers = no company
There is also something I read about PW or Shareholders not caring cause this is not where they make their real money - I'm on phone and lazy - but fits here: Of course they care. It's a business. What is doing badly compared to other products gets evaluated, if deemed well restarted (imo this is what Whiteside got here for) or gets cut out. Nobody keeps something in business that is doing semi meh just because it mighz not hurt. Capitalism works differently. And the judge of that is profit. Not steam numbers, altho players online vs capacities is another topic. Unhappy customers pay once and never again. Happy customers spend. A lot. Customer retention is a big thing. How players judge and receive a game is important af. (Cyberwhat?)
There is also something I read about PW or Shareholders not caring cause this is not where they make their real money - I'm on phone and lazy - but fits here:
The top of the food chain probably does not care (or care to know) what is going on here. They own a bunch of games that people play and they make money. That is about it. How much money is incoming from game A, B, C, or D really don't matter to this crowd. That is snowballed and tossed into the bank, point is they make money and when they are operating at a loss, the fat cats on top may grumble or give them a glare, but they have other sources to cover expense. This is called a parent company and that is what PWE does. PWE is a lot like a father who delves out the allowances. From what my wife has told me, they make the lion's share of their money from Chinese soap operas and movies.
Key points highlighted there. I have to base all this on conjecture from my personal experience with parent companies and their subsidiaries. The details of the relationship between Cryptic and PWE might be fuzzy, but the world of finance is what it is and some things are global. So let's talk about the hypothetical now.
A few people here assume Cryptic is operating in the black, even if this was the case, PWE could issue them a parent company loan. Along with supporting the actions of the subsidiary, the parent is also entering into a covenant to honor the debt even if the subsidiary ultimately cannot comply with the contractual provisions that govern the extension of credit. In short, depending on the circumstances one could have a single subsidiary losing money for years and it would be up to the board members (annual board meetings) what actions to take. If the subsidiary was deemed a complete disaster, the likely action would be to sell of the subsidiary. Those assets would then be absorbed by the buyer. I have joked with my wife that Amazon will buy up Cryptic when that happens. Amazon is my biggest contract at present.
From my perspective on this, Cryptic has enough revenues to afford creation of another game and hired a seasoned producer just within the last 2 years. That is not the look of a company running in debt. As I also said above, it could be a loan from the parent company to get their house in order. No one at PWE cares about Sharandar or what color armor you wear. They don't care, if 100 or 100,000 players walk away. That should be Cryptic's concern.
From the vibe I am getting, Cryptic Studios has between 100 to 200 employees at most. I am basing that on a few factors such as visible crew and management per game. Also the building they are housed in looks pretty small. That alone makes me think the number is under 100. Everything in business is done in quarters and fiscal years. Salary averages on 75K so minimum would be 7.5 million in a year. Toss on top of that utility, maintenance, and building expense. This is why individual players (product consumers) are not going to roll back 6 months to one year worth of work.
As Ian stated his harsh truth on page 2, you play their game, or find something else you like to do.
> Yea it is an excuse. Just because a company CAN do something legally, doesn't really directly relate to the concerns raised about what they are doing to the players. It's just a blanket excuse some of you use in order to say shut up and stop whinging when there are very valid concerns about how the game is being dismantled and how it affects the people who support it and invest thousands of hours of their valuable time and effort into it.
All of the answers you seek can be found in the Terms of Service. I would suggest you review it. I hope doing so gives you a clearer perspective of the role customers/players have in the development process.
'Terms of Service' has nothing to do with how Cryptic is disrespecting the players who support the game and have kept it alive and people have every right to voice those concerns and feelings without being told effectively to shut up because 'it's in the TOS'. It's an embarrassing cop-out on your part when you are apparently either unable or unwilling to comprehend and respond to the specific issue being raised and says more about the people who use this tactic than it does about the actual situation itself.
I'll just say this then I'm not responding to you any further because if you're just going to throw TOS back as an argument over and over in reply to an issue not directly related to TOS, you're just wasting my time.
Why do people choose Neverwinter over any other game out there? What causes people to initially commit to this company and spend money with them over and above any other game out there? Well they go and have a look at it, they see the way it looks and how it is graphically designed, they like what they see and they delve deeper. They like the combat design, how it is designed and how it flows, they like the UI, they put it all together, weigh it all up in their minds and make an informed decision that this is the game they want to give their time, energy and money to over and above any other game they are looking at at that point in time. There is at this point an unspoken and unwritten contract between the player and the company who provides the game, the game says "this is what the game is" the player says "I am going to invest my time and resources into this game based on what I am presented with." The player then puts a truckload of time and mental energy into creating their build and character and invests in the game over a long period of time.
When the company then rips apart their build because they redesign the combat system and game design (and this is something Cryptic does on a regular basis) the player has a right to feel cheated, as it is not a reasonable expectation that a game which has been around for several years will act in this way. Maybe for a game in development, but it is not a reasonable expectation that an established game will suddenly change the fundamentals and become something different. It is also not a reasonable expectation that permanent parts of the game will be deleted. Whether or not this is something the TOS allows is irrelevant which is why it's so annoying that this is used as a blanket excuse for it happening and to tell people they have no basis to be upset. It is also irrelevant to use the excuse that you don't legally 'own' anything in the game or that you are playing it for 'recreation' as if this means that the thousands of hours spent working on your account and character(s) is worthless. Time is time, mental energy is mental energy, work is work and effort is effort, all these things are valuable and worth something and are classified as an investment. (That this investment does not have a dollar value doesn't make any difference, it still has value.) It is entirely reasonable to say that someone who has committed to a game on the basis of how that game is presented and how it works, is justified in feeling ripped-off after investing so much of themselves when the rug is ripped out from under them and all their hard work is trashed or the very reason they keep logging in is removed as in places and locations deleted. This is not what people signed-on for when they created their accounts. You could extrapolate further and imagine that Cryptic kept removing locations, changing the combat system over and over again to the point it looked to all intents and purposes like a totally different game. This is not what someone initially decided to commit to and is not why they chose to invest so much into it.
The time and energy people spend on Neverwinter is of value, and their long-standing attachment and loyalty to the game based on their fondness for the way it is has worth also and requires respect and acknowledgement from the company. Cryptic treats it's veteran players in such a disgraceful way at their peril, and they will ultimately find out that most of the newer players who they are trying to attract will just as quickly leave again. Being a guild owner for years I know first hand the high rate at which people join, play for a while, then after deciding Neverwinter is not for them, permanently stop playing soon after. But when you're talking about those who previously committed to the game long-term, no amount of TOS talk is of any relevance when you are talking about the lived experience of the people who play the game and have committed to it for so many years and how they react to the game being sliced and diced, so you're just barking up the wrong tree with that argument. It has no relevance to what people are attempting to express about how they feel about it.
Lastly, if Neverwinter gets the reputation that what you see now is not what you will see a year or two later and you can't rely on it being what you signed up for, it will lose even more potential new players because they just won't want to bother with such an unknown.
Apparently pointing-out the bleeding obvious is a 'personal attack'.
@rockster#6227 Ian never told you to shut up. Yet you accuse him of waving the legal contract you agreed to when you started playing this game and telling you to shut up? I would like to know, what exactly it is you want Ian to do or say? You have already put words in his mouth and anyone scrolling back through this dialog can read, he has not attacked you. Do you have a script written from which he can read? I explained already the financial infrastructure behind parent companies and their subsidiaries. One consumer or 10,000 consumers is not going to change the outcome. Even if 10,000 walk out, 10,000 or more walk in to fill those spots.
Assume the average player here spend $100 US per month cash. Then 10,000 paid players is 1 million dollars, but as I have explained here earlier they probably spent over ten times that amount on this build. I seriously doubt they will lose very many paid players at all and nowhere near those amounts. I already know for a fact, this company is making better than 500 thousand per month on PC sales on this game alone. I didn't even need to look it up. Add revenues from both Xbox and PlayStation, Star Trek, and Champions.
All Ian has done, was to remind you, they own the game, and you lease it from Cryptic Studios.
Well, looks like someone believes that players are an infinite resource... they're not... they're in fact a finite one, especially these days with all the "social media" around gaming. When 10000 players walk away from a game, there'll be more then enough "content creators" within that group, and those won't be singing praise about the game they just left behind, and other players will listen to that and avoid that game for sure.
Funny enough, have a look at the NWO Steam charts, 10k players actually walked away from here, and those spots were never filled again... your numbers game might work with 1k players, but even then, this game won't be running stable for long, if that large amount of players decide to drop it and walk away, and there aren't another 1k players just standing around in line waiting to replace them either.
One can actually feel those missing players in game too, for example these days it takes a lot longer to sell stuff from lockboxes on the Auction House (and yes, that is with checking the listings daily and adjusting the prices acordingly) then it did a few months or even years before, which tells me that those new players might also not be spending much real money here too.
And the "average" players probably spends closer to 10$ per month then 100$, may be even less then 10$ considering in what times we're currently living. The NWO ZAX went down from converting 1m AD per day into ZEN to around 500k AD, and it looks like even that might be lower right now.
Anyway, all i'd like to remind any actual person in charge around here, your game needs players, but players don't need a specific game, there're more then enough other games out there to fill a freshly opened up spot on "our" HD... And i really hope they'll do some proper testing and actual listening to player feedback before dropping this new module with all the changes inside on "us", otherwise it's going to be just another bugs and issue riddled disaster like we had several times before.
This is why I normally stick with technical assistance here. Most of the players will either completely misunderstand or bend reality to their need to always be correct. I am not here debating, I told you facts about company mechanics, Ian told you facts about ToS, and all you look at us like we want to debate you.
I started my second paragraph with Assume - estimate, guess, take for granted look it up, the word is in the dictionary. Next the very reason I went laughably high, I knew there would be a retort about "They make more than that!" from one extreme group here, so I get the other extreme. One person postulates there is about 11,000 players total in Neverwinter, others will suggest less. Yes, I am saying, even if, almost all the players walk away others will fill their shoes. That is not going to happen, when was the last time you went to the theater and watched as 95 to 100% of the crowd left before the middle of the movie? As for finite players, players are people and we haven't stopped producing humans just yet.
The critical thing for this company, is advertisement. Advertisement with streamers, social media, and promos is the best way to recruit more people. I don't see this happening here with Neverwinter. This tells me the management is investing more into the game and less into publicity. My father was a sign painter, he said, you could always tell which business in town was on the ropes and about to fold up. They ordered the biggest signs. My personal opinion is, Neverwinter doesn't need additional players, at this time, as much as one might think.
Cryptic Studios is a small subsidiary of a much greater body, if your finger gets a paper cut you put a bandage on it. You don't amputate until it is a serious threat to your body. This is the role of a parent company. Does anyone here remember watching "Cats" in 2019 or the awful movie "Dolittle" this last year? PWE invested money into those films, I imagine they took a loss much bigger than anything Cryptic could do. However they keep making movies. Not all the movies they produce lose money or the PWE film company would not be in business. Just the facts here no debate.
You are acting as if you are the only one with a basic understanding on how businesses work and that because they are investing, NW is fine as it is, but it just might be a possibility that things are working as you think they are, or a clue that they aren't working fine at all. Most things you pointed out can be understood in a different direction, and that direction is emergency plans for products that were once doing well and should still be. Magic is taking forever. Literally. Until Magic is out and about and finally making money instead of the opposite, nobody can tell if it will be a success or not. Until it released properly and reached its BEP we are still here contemplating if NW is in a good place - and the points you think are showing us that PWE doesn't care because they couldn't care less are signs for me that they were not convinced the former direction was a good one - if it was as drastic as restarting it, who knows. Nobody here gets a glimpse at their numbers or sits in their meetings afaik. I am not sure how many greater bodies you have seen, but not all of them lean back and watch without a care how their subsidiarys are doing. I am not saying that PWE cares about the individual games, but there are not many Cryptic games. And since nobody knows each product's numbers, all that is left IS pure specualtion.
What you are saying about their advertisement is true, but you simply draw different conclusions. You say this is because of your vast experience, and you are simply implying that nobody else has a basic understanding of this. If you think that only a business that is about to fold utilizes proper advertisement, you have not much of an understanding about marketing, advertisement, core demographics of NW imo. But I am just debating The last Mod that got good advertisement was Barovia, M14. It was also the last one with a decent trailer. M14 had (and this is the only public source) good steam numbers until huntgate. There was different streamers back then, and the community changed A LOT since. To me, it does not mean that they are suddenly investing more into the game itself (lol, M16 is not even hinting that the game has more resources because the management suddenly shoved money from ads to development) which is just a conclusion you draw. I draw my one. Everybody does. You ARE debating, unless you are telling me that you are a part of Cryptic.
He has no opinion, he plays this game less than I do!
I am pro the changing / upgrading of Sharandar, what I am against in this reboot, making it level 80 and locking it behind 40K item level. I do understand, if I get my character(s) to Sharandar between the 9th and the 23rd, I will be grandfathered in having a false 40K item level. Currently 2 of my six characters are level 80 and a few others are close. I don't know, if I want to take Mrs. Black's offer, to run all my level 80 characters there or not. I don't know how I would feel about gaining an artificial advantage.
The problem I see with this module, it is more "end game content" for end gamers. Hey! Where is all the middle content?! For players 40 to 60, there isn't a module until Elemental Evil. The game has A.I. at level 15 and now jumps to E.E. at 60. The new players are expected to run 1 to 14 as tutorial, 15 to 60 as A.I., 60 to 70 as E.E., and Undermountain to 80. A total of 3 campaigns as everything else is for end gamers.
They should be spreading these out, Sharandar should start about level 40, Dread Ring 45, Icewind Dale 50, if they plan on rebuilding the first 3 modules. However all is said and done, yes there is nothing I can do about getting the clown back, I am going to be upset about it, and sit here and eat my Big Mac!
Just killing time...
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
He has no opinion, he plays this game less than I do!
I am pro the changing / upgrading of Sharandar, what I am against in this reboot, making it level 80 and locking it behind 40K item level. I do understand, if I get my character(s) to Sharandar between the 9th and the 23rd, I will be grandfathered in having a false 40K item level. Currently 2 of my six characters are level 80 and a few others are close. I don't know, if I want to take Mrs. Black's offer, to run all my level 80 characters there or not. I don't know how I would feel about gaining an artificial advantage.
The problem I see with this module, it is more "end game content" for end gamers. Hey! Where is all the middle content?! For players 40 to 60, there isn't a module until Elemental Evil. The game has A.I. at level 15 and now jumps to E.E. at 60. The new players are expected to run 1 to 14 as tutorial, 15 to 60 as A.I., 60 to 70 as E.E., and Undermountain to 80. A total of 3 campaigns as everything else is for end gamers.
They should be spreading these out, Sharandar should start about level 40, Dread Ring 45, Icewind Dale 50, if they plan on rebuilding the first 3 modules. However all is said and done, yes there is nothing I can do about getting the clown back, I am going to be upset about it, and sit here and eat my Big Mac!
Ok first off, M21 will be seeing a rework of how players will go from newly started to "epic content" with a new adventure system. So things are happening on that front.
Secondly, new players are actually intended to follow the story quest zones that is the base game from 0-60. There is more than enough content here to get you past level 60, it is impossible to finish all these zone without reaching level 60 first. AI now starts at level 60. Also, you can get started on Tyranny of Dragons at level 26. Oh and to top it all off, most players get to level 80 in about a week and have access and the capability/gear to play most of the modules at once. There is no lack of content for new players. Quite the contrary, they are often times overwhelmed and unsure of what to tackle first!
Thirdly, what content do you think players who are item level 40k-52k are supposed to do? Most of new content is directed at the end game players because beginner and mid game players have plenty of content already. With M20 coming out, most mid game players who aren't yet 40k should be in Avernus, building up their item level there and with random queues.
1. I really don't know how to respond to all to what you just said, because you started talking about level and gear grinding and that is something I just don't do. Maybe you missed that back on page 2 second posting?
2. I really don't know how anyone but Cryptic would know anything about module 21 since that isn't out until mid to late summer. Maybe you are an alpha tester, in which case... shhh! You will blow your NDA! But PM me all the gory details.
R. Yes, I am aware of places like Vellosk and Helm's Hold exist, I have done some very phenomenal role-playing in many places. Modules should stair step levels and not be all on one end of the stick. I didn't like when Undermountain came out, then we had roughly half a dozen or more campaigns at level 70. I thought they would have started back on M16 redistributing the modules to reflect the range in level.
Now, all they have to do is remove the insane exp from random que'ing, sincerely. I first joined in 2018 on a wizard during 2x exp recruitment event, hit 70 in about a week. Some random guild at the time had invited me during a random master of the hunt, I asked them at level 70 where I should be going...their suggestion to a new 70, no gear, very little experience specially with how overwhelming builds at the time could be, was to go to chult. After 2 days of trying to make any headway there, dying constantly to everything, I stopped until 5 months later when I tried again with a fighter.
As the game is now, it pushes you to the end way too fast, even going slow you get to 80 without trying. Then you get geared by easily obtainable stuff like lv 70 freebees and now maps, where you can que everything, but are clueless how you even play your class, then you have people who just started 2 weeks ago complaining they can't do latest content because its too hard.
Having item level requirements for campaigns and making it so players have to progress normally instead of speeding through the game gives new players a different mindset, instead of "I am 80, have the item level, I should be able to do it, tone it down!" to "I need to build myself up to get to the next part". This will hopefully mean less fully forsaken geared, green summoned companion in ques and more evenly balanced players overall with leveling enchants, upgrading companions and mounts and so forth.
Item level is still extremely easy to get, 54k+ achievable at endgame (likely higher as I'm not maxed out on everything), the least new players should do is have run all previous dungeons, gotten some campaigns completed, have at least epic companion/mounts and a full set of insignias before touching what is the latest content. ---------------------------------------- Old sharandar being added back as a low level campaign isn't a horrible idea, to ease players into a bigger campaign like EE, followed by real campaigns that have time-gating. Make the currency more basic for old sharandar, similar to EE and allowed to be run through with only barriers being "return at level xx". That way by level 70, they could potentially have 3 campaigns down, followed by UM. Gets a good start on boons, specially the lovely move speed one
> @sagakaiyume#0847 said: > ---------------------------------------- > Old sharandar being added back as a low level campaign isn't a horrible idea, to ease players into a bigger campaign like EE, followed by real campaigns that have time-gating. Make the currency more basic for old sharandar, similar to EE and allowed to be run through with only barriers being "return at level xx". That way by level 70, they could potentially have 3 campaigns down, followed by UM. Gets a good start on boons, specially the lovely move speed one
That's the puzzling thing about their logic behind the decision to remove the original zone. We have the overworld map where you can select Avernus, Icewind Dale, Underdark, and Undermountain. Why not simply add Sharandar as another overworld option with Old Sharandar as the hub?
"I don't know, I'm making it up as I go..." Featured Foundry Quest:Whispers of an Ancient Evil [v3] - NW-DQ4WKW6ZG Foundry Quest: Harper Chronicles: Blacklake - NW-DCPA4W2Q5
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
1. I really don't know how to respond to all to what you just said, because you started talking about level and gear grinding and that is something I just don't do. Maybe you missed that back on page 2 second posting?
2. I really don't know how anyone but Cryptic would know anything about module 21 since that isn't out until mid to late summer. Maybe you are an alpha tester, in which case... shhh! You will blow your NDA! But PM me all the gory details.
R. Yes, I am aware of places like Vellosk and Helm's Hold exist, I have done some very phenomenal role-playing in many places. Modules should stair step levels and not be all on one end of the stick. I didn't like when Undermountain came out, then we had roughly half a dozen or more campaigns at level 70. I thought they would have started back on M16 redistributing the modules to reflect the range in level.
Within my guild and alliance, i have learned since mod 7 and on, be very careful in giving suggestions to other players on what is considered a "good" companion, or weapon/armor enchant, or anything about combat system. New players need to know that the developers like to do "flavor of the month/Mod", let people see something that is broken or BIS, and players build around said comp or enchant. Usually these items are on the Zen market. Changing things in game is their perogitive. Changing things after you promote them on your store for real money, is a very good way to lose a portion of the player base each mod. Those items that were very popular and made them money, are coincidentally nerfed into the ground and usually never get used again. I know changes and balance are occasionally needed, but to purposely promote, and then nerf what you know people bought and is popular, is killing the game.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
That's the puzzling thing about their logic behind the decision to remove the original zone. We have the overworld map where you can select Avernus, Icewind Dale, Underdark, and Undermountain. Why not simply add Sharandar as another overworld option with Old Sharandar as the hub?
Old Sharandar and the new Sharandar are more akin to the likes of Blackdagger Ruins/Drowned Shore changes. Fundamental differences to the zones.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
1. I really don't know how to respond to all to what you just said, because you started talking about level and gear grinding and that is something I just don't do. Maybe you missed that back on page 2 second posting?
2. I really don't know how anyone but Cryptic would know anything about module 21 since that isn't out until mid to late summer. Maybe you are an alpha tester, in which case... shhh! You will blow your NDA! But PM me all the gory details.
R. Yes, I am aware of places like Vellosk and Helm's Hold exist, I have done some very phenomenal role-playing in many places. Modules should stair step levels and not be all on one end of the stick. I didn't like when Undermountain came out, then we had roughly half a dozen or more campaigns at level 70. I thought they would have started back on M16 redistributing the modules to reflect the range in level.
Well, that little picture also tells us about a "Winter Festival Refresh", and we all know how that turned out... clarification, there was no real change.
The only thing i noticed across 15+ characters this year, some really rotten loot luck regarding those Starlight parcels from the ZEN shop - not enough to get outdated equipment drops, but i often got the same damn HAMSTER item over and over again. And the binding status from several items inside Starlight parcels and bags is still a bloody mess, they could have at the very least fixed that this year, but nothing - it's still the same old, same old. I mean, an issue like that shouldn't take long to fix either, just mark drops from the parcels as "unbound" and drops from the bags as "bound to account" and be done with it. So, what's the holdup here?
Anyway, that road map is nice to look at from time to time, but in the end it only counts what we actually see happening on the Preview and later on the Life servers.
PSA: Before I get started here, I have noticed this topic floats to the surface every time I come here. So after I am done, I will go post on some other topics to bring balance to the forums. Otherwise a week from now, someone will comment on one of those topics and they will get tossed into the necromancy pile by the moderation.
Back on topic of Module 20, @arazith07 I agree with @regenerde that image is something they copied off their white board and gave to an unpaid intern to make "cleaner and more comprehensive" ... but it is far from it. I would recommend they just take a cellphone selfie with the whiteboard, and post that instead. I would also have a talk with the unpaid intern about the meaning of "cleaner and more comprehensive".
Others I somewhat agree with here are @iandarksword , @sagakaiyume#0847 , and @greywynd about the fact these modules could have been blended together. I will cite an almost perfect example; In the Undermountain down in the caves you meet the little Kuo-Toa and if you race to the second campfire before doing anything... no one is there. The little sand castle is there but no leader, or any quest givers. The leader only shows up sick when you have the quest to cure him. The leader only hides when you have the quest to find him. They could have fused these modules into one and made it possible to have one Sharanadar retaining the old quests and currency.
Those I disagree with, everyone and anyone who thinks players have a voice this late in the game. This is not the end of the TV series Firefly, we are not going to convince them to make us that feature film. Enjoy your game, I will be around, if anyone needs a great meat shield.
Just killing time...
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Back on topic of Module 20, @arazith07 I agree with @regenerde that image is something they copied off their white board and gave to an unpaid intern to make "cleaner and more comprehensive" ... but it is far from it. I would recommend they just take a cellphone selfie with the whiteboard, and post that instead. I would also have a talk with the unpaid intern about the meaning of "cleaner and more comprehensive".
They seem to be spending a lot of effort an time on this for something you deem to be trivial. They've had several streams taking up the time of the CM and of Chris Whiteside and Matt Powers (both producers) talking about this roadmap. More to my point of Project Ascension/Fast track to Epic Content, here is an interview where Chris does explain more about it (though still vague in detail). He literally has said taking out whole adventure zones. https://bleedingcool.com/games/interview-chris-whiteside-for-neverwinter-avernus/
1. I really don't know how to respond to all to what you just said, because you started talking about level and gear grinding and that is something I just don't do. Maybe you missed that back on page 2 second posting?
2. I really don't know how anyone but Cryptic would know anything about module 21 since that isn't out until mid to late summer. Maybe you are an alpha tester, in which case... shhh! You will blow your NDA! But PM me all the gory details.
R. Yes, I am aware of places like Vellosk and Helm's Hold exist, I have done some very phenomenal role-playing in many places. Modules should stair step levels and not be all on one end of the stick. I didn't like when Undermountain came out, then we had roughly half a dozen or more campaigns at level 70. I thought they would have started back on M16 redistributing the modules to reflect the range in level.
Well, that little picture also tells us about a "Winter Festival Refresh", and we all know how that turned out... clarification, there was no real change.
And they told us that a refresh is just added rewards (see broom). Reworks have more sweeping changes.
As Ian stated his harsh truth on page 2, you play their game, or find something else you like to do.
Yup, that pretty much sums it up for me. I have 181 or so days left of VIP. All I'm doing is pulling the daily key and logging out now.
Once it runs out I'm taking an extended sabbatical from this game. Retro Sharandar with a 40k IL barrier to entry or whatever has 0 appeal for me, so this is an easy decision.
1. I really don't know how to respond to all to what you just said, because you started talking about level and gear grinding and that is something I just don't do. Maybe you missed that back on page 2 second posting?
2. I really don't know how anyone but Cryptic would know anything about module 21 since that isn't out until mid to late summer. Maybe you are an alpha tester, in which case... shhh! You will blow your NDA! But PM me all the gory details.
R. Yes, I am aware of places like Vellosk and Helm's Hold exist, I have done some very phenomenal role-playing in many places. Modules should stair step levels and not be all on one end of the stick. I didn't like when Undermountain came out, then we had roughly half a dozen or more campaigns at level 70. I thought they would have started back on M16 redistributing the modules to reflect the range in level.
Well, that little picture also tells us about a "Winter Festival Refresh", and we all know how that turned out... clarification, there was no real change.
And they told us that a refresh is just added rewards (see broom). Reworks have more sweeping changes.
Well, what's the point of a "Refresh" then, when it only adds another mostly useless reward to the pile, while moving the reward from the previous year to the ZEN shop? I mean, that event comes around only once in a YEAR and they can't even be bothered to give it at least enough attention to fix some of the more annoying bugs/issues (that are lingering around for years) in it?
And i think, they also forgot to move the Yeti to the ZEN shop this year.
Besides, funny how their view on a refresh meaning "adding rewards" actually also includes removing rewards like the daily login gifts we were given before... shouldn't there be more or at least a few fresh rewards be in there too?
As Ian stated his harsh truth on page 2, you play their game, or find something else you like to do.
Yup, that pretty much sums it up for me. I have 181 or so days left of VIP. All I'm doing is pulling the daily key and logging out now.
Once it runs out I'm taking an extended sabbatical from this game. Retro Sharandar with a 40k IL barrier to entry or whatever has 0 appeal for me, so this is an easy decision.
to be fair i would imagine if you dont have a min of 40k il and your stats pretty much sorted you are gonna have a real hard time getting through the intro quest let alone any further
I mostly play on xbox. Pally 34k il. On pc I have a pally at about 24k il. Took him onto preview and did the intro. It says on my character sheet that my il is being scaled for the zone to 40k. It was difficult to do, and I used alot of health stones and died several times. Of course I expect this to be easier when this comes to console, as my xbox pally is endgame geared(do not have avernus t3 gears) but none the less he's better equiped than the pally on pc.
My point is, if what is on preview now goes live, new players will be able to get into the new zone instantly, and will probably even be able to bypass the old zones for gearing up before going into the new zone. I do not know if this is design intent, or not. I also don't know how I feel about that. On one hand it makes the latest stuff more accessible to new players, since they can essentially skip the older zones, or at the very least get the undermoutnain gear once they hit lvl 80.. When I first got into NW, SKT was the latest thing. It was truly gated behind lvl 70/il. Could not enter until you were level 70. As a new player at the time, it was very overwhelming trying to get to lvl 70, and get the gear to survive. By the time I was at level 70(weekend warrior, usually only a few hours a weekend at the time) chult had opened and of course I wanted the new new gear, but coudn't get it due to chult being even harderer even though it had the same level requirement.
On the other hand, as a mid tier player that has spent hours gearing up a toon, or 5 for playing I want the newest content to be hard enough to dissuade new players from just jumping right in before they know how to play.
As Ian stated his harsh truth on page 2, you play their game, or find something else you like to do.
Yup, that pretty much sums it up for me. I have 181 or so days left of VIP. All I'm doing is pulling the daily key and logging out now.
Once it runs out I'm taking an extended sabbatical from this game. Retro Sharandar with a 40k IL barrier to entry or whatever has 0 appeal for me, so this is an easy decision.
to be fair i would imagine if you dont have a min of 40k il and your stats pretty much sorted you are gonna have a real hard time getting through the intro quest let alone any further
I had no problem on Preview. But 3 of us plan to tackle it on Live, I just have reservations on that false 40K they grant us. If you do this between February 9th to 23rd then you get to keep the fake 40K item level for this campaign. Otherwise you are out of luck and living in the dog house.
As Ian stated his harsh truth on page 2, you play their game, or find something else you like to do.
Yup, that pretty much sums it up for me. I have 181 or so days left of VIP. All I'm doing is pulling the daily key and logging out now.
Once it runs out I'm taking an extended sabbatical from this game. Retro Sharandar with a 40k IL barrier to entry or whatever has 0 appeal for me, so this is an easy decision.
to be fair i would imagine if you dont have a min of 40k il and your stats pretty much sorted you are gonna have a real hard time getting through the intro quest let alone any further
I had no problem on Preview. But 3 of us plan to tackle it on Live, I just have reservations on that false 40K they grant us. If you do this between February 9th to 23rd then you get to keep the fake 40K item level for this campaign. Otherwise you are out of luck and living in the dog house.
Well, just to be clear, it will be enough to push a character through the intro quest to have that 40k IL boost for the whole campaign and after February 23rd? And this boost is not an account-wide unlock?
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> Yea it is an excuse. Just because a company CAN do something legally, doesn't really directly relate to the concerns raised about what they are doing to the players. It's just a blanket excuse some of you use in order to say shut up and stop whinging when there are very valid concerns about how the game is being dismantled and how it affects the people who support it and invest thousands of hours of their valuable time and effort into it.
All of the answers you seek can be found in the Terms of Service. I would suggest you review it. I hope doing so gives you a clearer perspective of the role customers/players have in the development process.
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To express this in song, But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well. You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself.
Just killing time...
if you want to keep your directors happy keep the customers happy
if there is no customers there is no company
you can keep quoting tos and the fact it is cryptics company and they can do what they like all day long and you are correct
however you annoy enough players badly enough (and remember its only a tiny fraction of the playerbase come here) they will go play another game
enough leave and the game ends no ifs no buts no maybes
no customers = no company
Of course they care. It's a business. What is doing badly compared to other products gets evaluated, if deemed well restarted (imo this is what Whiteside got here for) or gets cut out. Nobody keeps something in business that is doing semi meh just because it mighz not hurt. Capitalism works differently.
And the judge of that is profit. Not steam numbers, altho players online vs capacities is another topic. Unhappy customers pay once and never again. Happy customers spend. A lot.
Customer retention is a big thing. How players judge and receive a game is important af. (Cyberwhat?)
A few people here assume Cryptic is operating in the black, even if this was the case, PWE could issue them a parent company loan. Along with supporting the actions of the subsidiary, the parent is also entering into a covenant to honor the debt even if the subsidiary ultimately cannot comply with the contractual provisions that govern the extension of credit. In short, depending on the circumstances one could have a single subsidiary losing money for years and it would be up to the board members (annual board meetings) what actions to take. If the subsidiary was deemed a complete disaster, the likely action would be to sell of the subsidiary. Those assets would then be absorbed by the buyer. I have joked with my wife that Amazon will buy up Cryptic when that happens. Amazon is my biggest contract at present.
From my perspective on this, Cryptic has enough revenues to afford creation of another game and hired a seasoned producer just within the last 2 years. That is not the look of a company running in debt. As I also said above, it could be a loan from the parent company to get their house in order. No one at PWE cares about Sharandar or what color armor you wear. They don't care, if 100 or 100,000 players walk away. That should be Cryptic's concern.
From the vibe I am getting, Cryptic Studios has between 100 to 200 employees at most. I am basing that on a few factors such as visible crew and management per game. Also the building they are housed in looks pretty small. That alone makes me think the number is under 100. Everything in business is done in quarters and fiscal years. Salary averages on 75K so minimum would be 7.5 million in a year. Toss on top of that utility, maintenance, and building expense. This is why individual players (product consumers) are not going to roll back 6 months to one year worth of work.
As Ian stated his harsh truth on page 2, you play their game, or find something else you like to do.
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I'll just say this then I'm not responding to you any further because if you're just going to throw TOS back as an argument over and over in reply to an issue not directly related to TOS, you're just wasting my time.
Why do people choose Neverwinter over any other game out there? What causes people to initially commit to this company and spend money with them over and above any other game out there? Well they go and have a look at it, they see the way it looks and how it is graphically designed, they like what they see and they delve deeper. They like the combat design, how it is designed and how it flows, they like the UI, they put it all together, weigh it all up in their minds and make an informed decision that this is the game they want to give their time, energy and money to over and above any other game they are looking at at that point in time. There is at this point an unspoken and unwritten contract between the player and the company who provides the game, the game says "this is what the game is" the player says "I am going to invest my time and resources into this game based on what I am presented with." The player then puts a truckload of time and mental energy into creating their build and character and invests in the game over a long period of time.
When the company then rips apart their build because they redesign the combat system and game design (and this is something Cryptic does on a regular basis) the player has a right to feel cheated, as it is not a reasonable expectation that a game which has been around for several years will act in this way. Maybe for a game in development, but it is not a reasonable expectation that an established game will suddenly change the fundamentals and become something different. It is also not a reasonable expectation that permanent parts of the game will be deleted. Whether or not this is something the TOS allows is irrelevant which is why it's so annoying that this is used as a blanket excuse for it happening and to tell people they have no basis to be upset. It is also irrelevant to use the excuse that you don't legally 'own' anything in the game or that you are playing it for 'recreation' as if this means that the thousands of hours spent working on your account and character(s) is worthless. Time is time, mental energy is mental energy, work is work and effort is effort, all these things are valuable and worth something and are classified as an investment. (That this investment does not have a dollar value doesn't make any difference, it still has value.) It is entirely reasonable to say that someone who has committed to a game on the basis of how that game is presented and how it works, is justified in feeling ripped-off after investing so much of themselves when the rug is ripped out from under them and all their hard work is trashed or the very reason they keep logging in is removed as in places and locations deleted. This is not what people signed-on for when they created their accounts. You could extrapolate further and imagine that Cryptic kept removing locations, changing the combat system over and over again to the point it looked to all intents and purposes like a totally different game. This is not what someone initially decided to commit to and is not why they chose to invest so much into it.
The time and energy people spend on Neverwinter is of value, and their long-standing attachment and loyalty to the game based on their fondness for the way it is has worth also and requires respect and acknowledgement from the company. Cryptic treats it's veteran players in such a disgraceful way at their peril, and they will ultimately find out that most of the newer players who they are trying to attract will just as quickly leave again. Being a guild owner for years I know first hand the high rate at which people join, play for a while, then after deciding Neverwinter is not for them, permanently stop playing soon after. But when you're talking about those who previously committed to the game long-term, no amount of TOS talk is of any relevance when you are talking about the lived experience of the people who play the game and have committed to it for so many years and how they react to the game being sliced and diced, so you're just barking up the wrong tree with that argument. It has no relevance to what people are attempting to express about how they feel about it.
Lastly, if Neverwinter gets the reputation that what you see now is not what you will see a year or two later and you can't rely on it being what you signed up for, it will lose even more potential new players because they just won't want to bother with such an unknown.
Assume the average player here spend $100 US per month cash. Then 10,000 paid players is 1 million dollars, but as I have explained here earlier they probably spent over ten times that amount on this build. I seriously doubt they will lose very many paid players at all and nowhere near those amounts. I already know for a fact, this company is making better than 500 thousand per month on PC sales on this game alone. I didn't even need to look it up. Add revenues from both Xbox and PlayStation, Star Trek, and Champions.
All Ian has done, was to remind you, they own the game, and you lease it from Cryptic Studios.
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Funny enough, have a look at the NWO Steam charts, 10k players actually walked away from here, and those spots were never filled again... your numbers game might work with 1k players, but even then, this game won't be running stable for long, if that large amount of players decide to drop it and walk away, and there aren't another 1k players just standing around in line waiting to replace them either.
One can actually feel those missing players in game too, for example these days it takes a lot longer to sell stuff from lockboxes on the Auction House (and yes, that is with checking the listings daily and adjusting the prices acordingly) then it did a few months or even years before, which tells me that those new players might also not be spending much real money here too.
And the "average" players probably spends closer to 10$ per month then 100$, may be even less then 10$ considering in what times we're currently living. The NWO ZAX went down from converting 1m AD per day into ZEN to around 500k AD, and it looks like even that might be lower right now.
Anyway, all i'd like to remind any actual person in charge around here, your game needs players, but players don't need a specific game, there're more then enough other games out there to fill a freshly opened up spot on "our" HD...
And i really hope they'll do some proper testing and actual listening to player feedback before dropping this new module with all the changes inside on "us", otherwise it's going to be just another bugs and issue riddled disaster like we had several times before.
I started my second paragraph with Assume - estimate, guess, take for granted look it up, the word is in the dictionary. Next the very reason I went laughably high, I knew there would be a retort about "They make more than that!" from one extreme group here, so I get the other extreme. One person postulates there is about 11,000 players total in Neverwinter, others will suggest less. Yes, I am saying, even if, almost all the players walk away others will fill their shoes. That is not going to happen, when was the last time you went to the theater and watched as 95 to 100% of the crowd left before the middle of the movie? As for finite players, players are people and we haven't stopped producing humans just yet.
The critical thing for this company, is advertisement. Advertisement with streamers, social media, and promos is the best way to recruit more people. I don't see this happening here with Neverwinter. This tells me the management is investing more into the game and less into publicity. My father was a sign painter, he said, you could always tell which business in town was on the ropes and about to fold up. They ordered the biggest signs. My personal opinion is, Neverwinter doesn't need additional players, at this time, as much as one might think.
Cryptic Studios is a small subsidiary of a much greater body, if your finger gets a paper cut you put a bandage on it. You don't amputate until it is a serious threat to your body. This is the role of a parent company. Does anyone here remember watching "Cats" in 2019 or the awful movie "Dolittle" this last year? PWE invested money into those films, I imagine they took a loss much bigger than anything Cryptic could do. However they keep making movies. Not all the movies they produce lose money or the PWE film company would not be in business. Just the facts here no debate.
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Magic is taking forever. Literally. Until Magic is out and about and finally making money instead of the opposite, nobody can tell if it will be a success or not. Until it released properly and reached its BEP we are still here contemplating if NW is in a good place - and the points you think are showing us that PWE doesn't care because they couldn't care less are signs for me that they were not convinced the former direction was a good one - if it was as drastic as restarting it, who knows. Nobody here gets a glimpse at their numbers or sits in their meetings afaik.
I am not sure how many greater bodies you have seen, but not all of them lean back and watch without a care how their subsidiarys are doing. I am not saying that PWE cares about the individual games, but there are not many Cryptic games. And since nobody knows each product's numbers, all that is left IS pure specualtion.
What you are saying about their advertisement is true, but you simply draw different conclusions. You say this is because of your vast experience, and you are simply implying that nobody else has a basic understanding of this. If you think that only a business that is about to fold utilizes proper advertisement, you have not much of an understanding about marketing, advertisement, core demographics of NW imo. But I am just debating
The last Mod that got good advertisement was Barovia, M14. It was also the last one with a decent trailer. M14 had (and this is the only public source) good steam numbers until huntgate. There was different streamers back then, and the community changed A LOT since. To me, it does not mean that they are suddenly investing more into the game itself (lol, M16 is not even hinting that the game has more resources because the management suddenly shoved money from ads to development) which is just a conclusion you draw. I draw my one. Everybody does.
You ARE debating, unless you are telling me that you are a part of Cryptic.
I am pro the changing / upgrading of Sharandar, what I am against in this reboot, making it level 80 and locking it behind 40K item level. I do understand, if I get my character(s) to Sharandar between the 9th and the 23rd, I will be grandfathered in having a false 40K item level. Currently 2 of my six characters are level 80 and a few others are close. I don't know, if I want to take Mrs. Black's offer, to run all my level 80 characters there or not. I don't know how I would feel about gaining an artificial advantage.
The problem I see with this module, it is more "end game content" for end gamers. Hey! Where is all the middle content?! For players 40 to 60, there isn't a module until Elemental Evil. The game has A.I. at level 15 and now jumps to E.E. at 60. The new players are expected to run 1 to 14 as tutorial, 15 to 60 as A.I., 60 to 70 as E.E., and Undermountain to 80. A total of 3 campaigns as everything else is for end gamers.
They should be spreading these out, Sharandar should start about level 40, Dread Ring 45, Icewind Dale 50, if they plan on rebuilding the first 3 modules. However all is said and done, yes there is nothing I can do about getting the clown back, I am going to be upset about it, and sit here and eat my Big Mac!
Just killing time...
Secondly, new players are actually intended to follow the story quest zones that is the base game from 0-60. There is more than enough content here to get you past level 60, it is impossible to finish all these zone without reaching level 60 first. AI now starts at level 60. Also, you can get started on Tyranny of Dragons at level 26. Oh and to top it all off, most players get to level 80 in about a week and have access and the capability/gear to play most of the modules at once. There is no lack of content for new players. Quite the contrary, they are often times overwhelmed and unsure of what to tackle first!
Thirdly, what content do you think players who are item level 40k-52k are supposed to do? Most of new content is directed at the end game players because beginner and mid game players have plenty of content already. With M20 coming out, most mid game players who aren't yet 40k should be in Avernus, building up their item level there and with random queues.
2. I really don't know how anyone but Cryptic would know anything about module 21 since that isn't out until mid to late summer. Maybe you are an alpha tester, in which case... shhh! You will blow your NDA! But PM me all the gory details.
R. Yes, I am aware of places like Vellosk and Helm's Hold exist, I have done some very phenomenal role-playing in many places. Modules should stair step levels and not be all on one end of the stick. I didn't like when Undermountain came out, then we had roughly half a dozen or more campaigns at level 70. I thought they would have started back on M16 redistributing the modules to reflect the range in level.
Just killing time...
As the game is now, it pushes you to the end way too fast, even going slow you get to 80 without trying. Then you get geared by easily obtainable stuff like lv 70 freebees and now maps, where you can que everything, but are clueless how you even play your class, then you have people who just started 2 weeks ago complaining they can't do latest content because its too hard.
Having item level requirements for campaigns and making it so players have to progress normally instead of speeding through the game gives new players a different mindset, instead of "I am 80, have the item level, I should be able to do it, tone it down!" to "I need to build myself up to get to the next part". This will hopefully mean less fully forsaken geared, green summoned companion in ques and more evenly balanced players overall with leveling enchants, upgrading companions and mounts and so forth.
Item level is still extremely easy to get, 54k+ achievable at endgame (likely higher as I'm not maxed out on everything), the least new players should do is have run all previous dungeons, gotten some campaigns completed, have at least epic companion/mounts and a full set of insignias before touching what is the latest content.
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Old sharandar being added back as a low level campaign isn't a horrible idea, to ease players into a bigger campaign like EE, followed by real campaigns that have time-gating. Make the currency more basic for old sharandar, similar to EE and allowed to be run through with only barriers being "return at level xx". That way by level 70, they could potentially have 3 campaigns down, followed by UM. Gets a good start on boons, specially the lovely move speed one
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> Old sharandar being added back as a low level campaign isn't a horrible idea, to ease players into a bigger campaign like EE, followed by real campaigns that have time-gating. Make the currency more basic for old sharandar, similar to EE and allowed to be run through with only barriers being "return at level xx". That way by level 70, they could potentially have 3 campaigns down, followed by UM. Gets a good start on boons, specially the lovely move speed one
That's the puzzling thing about their logic behind the decision to remove the original zone. We have the overworld map where you can select Avernus, Icewind Dale, Underdark, and Undermountain. Why not simply add Sharandar as another overworld option with Old Sharandar as the hub?
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The only thing i noticed across 15+ characters this year, some really rotten loot luck regarding those Starlight parcels from the ZEN shop - not enough to get outdated equipment drops, but i often got the same damn HAMSTER item over and over again. And the binding status from several items inside Starlight parcels and bags is still a bloody mess, they could have at the very least fixed that this year, but nothing - it's still the same old, same old. I mean, an issue like that shouldn't take long to fix either, just mark drops from the parcels as "unbound" and drops from the bags as "bound to account" and be done with it. So, what's the holdup here?
Anyway, that road map is nice to look at from time to time, but in the end it only counts what we actually see happening on the Preview and later on the Life servers.
Back on topic of Module 20, @arazith07 I agree with @regenerde that image is something they copied off their white board and gave to an unpaid intern to make "cleaner and more comprehensive" ... but it is far from it. I would recommend they just take a cellphone selfie with the whiteboard, and post that instead. I would also have a talk with the unpaid intern about the meaning of "cleaner and more comprehensive".
Others I somewhat agree with here are @iandarksword , @sagakaiyume#0847 , and @greywynd about the fact these modules could have been blended together. I will cite an almost perfect example; In the Undermountain down in the caves you meet the little Kuo-Toa and if you race to the second campfire before doing anything... no one is there. The little sand castle is there but no leader, or any quest givers. The leader only shows up sick when you have the quest to cure him. The leader only hides when you have the quest to find him. They could have fused these modules into one and made it possible to have one Sharanadar retaining the old quests and currency.
Those I disagree with, everyone and anyone who thinks players have a voice this late in the game. This is not the end of the TV series Firefly, we are not going to convince them to make us that feature film. Enjoy your game, I will be around, if anyone needs a great meat shield.
Just killing time...
Yup, that pretty much sums it up for me. I have 181 or so days left of VIP. All I'm doing is pulling the daily key and logging out now.
Once it runs out I'm taking an extended sabbatical from this game. Retro Sharandar with a 40k IL barrier to entry or whatever has 0 appeal for me, so this is an easy decision.
And i think, they also forgot to move the Yeti to the ZEN shop this year.
Besides, funny how their view on a refresh meaning "adding rewards" actually also includes removing rewards like the daily login gifts we were given before... shouldn't there be more or at least a few fresh rewards be in there too?
My point is, if what is on preview now goes live, new players will be able to get into the new zone instantly, and will probably even be able to bypass the old zones for gearing up before going into the new zone. I do not know if this is design intent, or not. I also don't know how I feel about that. On one hand it makes the latest stuff more accessible to new players, since they can essentially skip the older zones, or at the very least get the undermoutnain gear once they hit lvl 80.. When I first got into NW, SKT was the latest thing. It was truly gated behind lvl 70/il. Could not enter until you were level 70. As a new player at the time, it was very overwhelming trying to get to lvl 70, and get the gear to survive. By the time I was at level 70(weekend warrior, usually only a few hours a weekend at the time) chult had opened and of course I wanted the new new gear, but coudn't get it due to chult being even harderer even though it had the same level requirement.
On the other hand, as a mid tier player that has spent hours gearing up a toon, or 5 for playing I want the newest content to be hard enough to dissuade new players from just jumping right in before they know how to play.
Just killing time...