Exchange AD for Zen

barbiefortinha · January 2021

We can see a daily increase (~ 150k) in the amount of switching from AD to ZEN. This exchange is taking about 100 days or more! Where is the neverwinter we knew? Where this exchange was instant or did not take so long. NW nostalgic times need to return! The economy is totally unbalanced ... The ZEN is the main currency of the game, the price of 750 AD may need to be redeployed. These are other times, so the ZEN currency needs to be more valued (there is an increase in the exchange for 1000 AD or more) and necessarily acquired more easily / quickly by the player within the game. Currently (and now even more, by switching from Bonding to AD), players will have a lot of AD, and the switch from AD to ZEN tends to increase even more. There are several ways that this exchange is faster. Some examples are the astral lockbox that requires AD for purchase (when it is active we notice a decrease in the queue for exchanging AD for ZEN). So why not create some kind of greater appreciation for AD? Or even the standard mode, increasing the purchase price of ZEN to 1000 AD or more. Please make this exchange the same before, where players can feel again the good old days that NW brought.

plasticbat · January 2021

In my "good old day" when I started to play this game, it took more than 6 months waiting.

darthpotater · January 2021

Do you want preservation wardsx99 at 1.3M Ad Instead of 1M? Because that is what will happen if you put the ZAX in 1000AD per zen. The Same with other zen items.

And the backlog will instantly hit again with the same amount of AD and raising every day so with this you dont fix the problem, only makes the game less free to play.

There are lots of threads with this topic, and they need to make AD desirable, mainly, making most of the items Bind on Equip, so the Auction house will do the work. Also, we need more AD sinks, but well, this was discussed lots of times, and we have 0 words from the team about this, so they dont care or they dont want to talk about this.

Also, the introduction of REFINED AD in the rewards can give you a hint of their intentions.

blargskull · January 2021

I never have problems with the exchange.

I also pay cash for my Zen on Champions.

barbiefortinha · January 2021

Deathpotater

Unfortunately, AD is worthless ... We observed that in the last event of the milistones, that only those who can do it with benefits (including exclusive items) were those who had ZEN. We agree that the game is not pay to win, however the ZEN is currently almost unreachable (+100 days to get it through the exchange with AD). I see no problem with the price of preservation going up if the price of ZEN goes to 1000 AD. This is an insignificant change (but in an acute / momentary way it could help) for the absurd amount of AD that the server has. Something has to be done for the AD to be valued. Because if I have a lot of AD and I can't use it to have benefits in a future event (which is usually necessary for ZEN) is AD super devalued and the game starts to be slightly pay to win? Another example is whenever you turn the module over and create a new DG, they put a pack for ZEN that speeds up the new campaign, right? If I am a player (if I don't buy ZEN for real money) with a lot of AD I depend on the long wait of switching from AD to ZEN to get it. Well, I just know that something needs to be done for players to have access to ZEN by spending AD (quickly) or players will start to see a fre to play game with another view.

plasticbat · January 2021

What you need is a plan to acquire Zen. Setting that to 1000 will not help you. In less than a year, it will go back to the current situation. The same happened when it increased from 500 and 750. The Russian server has been 1000 for a long time. All these adjustment does not help. What it helps is you have your own approach to deal with it.

As I said, when I started, the wait time was at least 6 months. Hence, I always acquire Zen that I want to use one year later. I have no problem with the current situation. I have patience.

Free to play does not mean you have to acquire Zen. There are players who has refused to buy stuff from Zen store.

In the past year, Cryptic has ensure AD is flooded which make the wait time longer and longer. I have a feeling making the waiting longer and longer is intentional. i.e. they make sure AD is 'worthless'.

barbiefortinha · January 2021

If this is intentional, the delay for this exchange to happen is proportional to the decrease in the number of players that will stay in the game (steam data reveals a 12% drop in the last month). Because this system is one of the main attractions that the game offers. The players who don't "like" purchasing anything from the ZEN store are in the minority. Neverwinter is not a recent game to allow yourself the luxury of locking up a system that attracts new players. If this is intentional, I cannot see a logic that is not entirely financial.

plasticbat · January 2021

barbiefortinha#5895 said:
If this is intentional, the delay for this exchange to happen is proportional to the decrease in the number of players that will stay in the game (steam data reveals a 12% drop in the last month). Because this system is one of the main attractions that the game offers. The players who don't "like" purchasing anything from the ZEN store are in the minority. Neverwinter is not a recent game to allow yourself the luxury of locking up a system that attracts new players. If this is intentional, I cannot see a logic that is not entirely financial.

Of course, it is a financial intention. It push less prepared player to spend money. It is 'free to play' if you don't need Zen store or have patience. It is 'free to be Bis' if you can work around the obstacles and have patience. The ideal new players they want are those who would spend money while it is still possible to free to play.

hastur905 · January 2021

The Zax has always been player to player exchange, AD for Zen. The issue has been that many players are focused on increasing their personal wealth within the game. The cycle thus far for many has been use Zen to purchase items from the Zen Store to resell in the AH for profit, then cycle that profit for more Zen.

One suggestion has been to make it so only things purchased on the Zen store are bound to account, by doing this it would eliminate the cycle, the cost however is that some items would be trapped behind a pay wall because they are not available in game. In the CDP a suggestion was to add a "Superstore" in game to offer many of the Zen items to purchase for in game currency, since then many items have been added to the Trade Bar store, events, chest rewards, currency exchanges, lockboxes etc. All of these measures have been added to minimize the need to try and devalue the need to exchange AD to Zen for items other than VIP, and yet it continues.

Raising the value of the exchange is not going to resolve the issue, it only took a month if that for postings to go from 500 to 750, it would be the same if it was raised to 1k. Do I have a solution? Its not new and has been suggested by many before, having a AD to Trade Bar exchange, add the remaining items that are exclusive on the Zen store regularly to the Trade Bar store, with the exception of VIP, Keys, and limited time offers. This would relive the pressure on the Zax because most of the items would be available in game, and VIP and Keys are already BOA. The downside might be that with a set price on trade bars the item would have a ceiling, and the only profit to be made would be when there is a trade bar sale, or limited time enchantments or mounts would be available on the zen store.

blargskull · January 2021

You guys are going to just ignore my post up there. That is current image of the ZAX on Champions. Champions is an online Cryptic Studios game. If there was a conspiracy to keep the ZAX on Neverwinter backlogged, don't you think it would be backlogged there as well? You can see that anyone can buy Zen on Champions for 392 and we haven't even hit cap on there. I think our cap is still 500, if they raised it to 750, we would never know.

The real question is what makes the difference, between Champions and Neverwinter? Why do players desire to give away their Zen for 392 Questionite (AD here in Neverwinter) and why are the free players not buying it up at this rate?

The answer, I believe, is the Questionite Store has a lot more to offer to the Zen buyers. They don't desire to grind the Questionite, so they purchase it from the players who do grind it. Also our Global currency (Neverwinter gold) is used to buy and sell in the auction instead of Questionite. Keys for loot boxes are not bound, so we buy them from the Zen store and sell those in the AH for 90 to 100 G.

Neverwinter's AD store is horrible. There is nothing in there I would want to buy for AD or for cash. Your AH is in direct competition with the AD store severely under bidding the prices. There is nothing to spend your gold on other than professions and pulling enchants. Gold here is worthless, can you even imagine buying an enchanted key for 100 gold?

Raising the bar will not help.

greywynd · January 2021

One major difference is the average number of players between each game. CO compared to Neverwinter is a wasteland.

blargskull · January 2021

greywynd said:
One major difference is the average number of players between each game. CO compared to Neverwinter is a wasteland.

Afraid I must disagree. There are plenty of players on Star Trek and the economy is not out of balance like it is here. This one, out of their 3 current games, is the only one with an enormous backlog and out of balanced economy. Player population is not the issue.

ravenspurn · January 2021

blargskull said:

greywynd said:
One major difference is the average number of players between each game. CO compared to Neverwinter is a wasteland.
Afraid I must disagree. There are plenty of players on Star Trek and the economy is not out of balance like it is here. This one, out of their 3 current games, is the only one with an enormous backlog and out of balanced economy. Player population is not the issue.

The main difference between STO and NW is Lifetime, but there is also the currency usage.
Lifetime gets 500 Zen per Month, and Players can refine 8K Dilithium per Day per Character, which is usually traded for Dilithium, since it's used for Everything apart from the Exchange which is EC.
In STO, Players generally create what is desired (using Dilithium), and place this on the Exchange, or use it themselves.
Upgrading Items costs Dilithium, Creating Items costs Dilithium, Purchasing Phoenix boxes (for the Phoenix upgrades) costs Dilithium.

If you were to Have something similar in NW where the Player made equipment was at minimum as good as the stuff you can get from the Trials with some upgrading (that you create and Upgrade using ZAX currency and not Gold), the ZAX would be at 0 within 2 months.

highlyunstable · January 2021

Ok..... you need to reach out to the Player base. WE PLAYERS supply the Zen for the ZAX. The real problem is... NO ONE is either buying ZEN or... putting up on the ZAX after buying it.

ravenspurn · January 2021

The problem is that AD has become less useful within the game.
Gold is used for manufacturing, removing Enchants, and purchasing items like Injury Kits.
The Tarmalune Trade Bar Store is quickly becoming the de-facto standard "One Store", with everything from Enchants, Mount and Companion Upgrade Tokens, to Equipment and Artifacts.
You need Premium time to get the Keys to open the boxes to get Trade Bars.
In order for the free to play community (those who do not purchase Zen with actual Currency) to gain access to this currency, we should be able to trade the Keys on the AH for AD.

If you want something from the Trade Bar store that's Boe or not Bound, that's fine, it will be available on the AH, but there BoP stuff on there that's going to be very useful for the upcoming changes (Mount and Companion Upgrade Tokens).

There is another way to make AD useful. ViP.
If they were to say offer ViP QoL (The Signpost, Mailbox, Vendors and Banking Portal) for let's say 2 million AD per month.
And in addition to this, offer ViP benefits ( Bonus XP, AD, Rereoll token, Key, AH fees, injury immunity) for an additional 1 million per month if you purchased the first pack, then this would allow the Free to Play Community to choose if they want to use all the AD they can refine in one month to purchase ViP QoL + benefits.

greywynd · January 2021

highlyunstable said:
Ok..... you need to reach out to the Player base. WE PLAYERS supply the Zen for the ZAX. The real problem is... NO ONE is either buying ZEN or... putting up on the ZAX after buying it.

If I buy zen give me a reason why I should toss it into the ZAX.

ravenspurn · January 2021

highlyunstable said:
Ok..... you need to reach out to the Player base. WE PLAYERS supply the Zen for the ZAX. The real problem is... NO ONE is either buying ZEN or... putting up on the ZAX after buying it.

Plenty of People are Buying Zen, nobody is exchanging Zen for AD because Trade Bars is a better currency you can do more with. 1000 Trade Bars = any R15 Enchant which means that 1 Trade Bar = ca 2500 AD

800 Zen converted into Pres Wards / Golden Memories / Holy Vorpal et cetera = 1 million AD (20% off anything coupon)
1000 Zen converted into Trade Bars (750 Trade Bars is minimum) has a value of approx 1,85 million AD.
ViP for 1 month will yield a minimum of 25*30 (750 Trade Bars) Trade Bars opening the current Box.
1000 Zen converted into AD through ZAX yields 750k AD

ZAX is not economical, and is a bad deal

plasticbat · January 2021

ravenspurn#2982 said:
The problem is that AD has become less useful within the game.
Gold is used for manufacturing, removing Enchants, and purchasing items like Injury Kits.
The Tarmalune Trade Bar Store is quickly becoming the de-facto standard "One Store", with everything from Enchants, Mount and Companion Upgrade Tokens, to Equipment and Artifacts.
You need Premium time to get the Keys to open the boxes to get Trade Bars.
In order for the free to play community (those who do not purchase Zen with actual Currency) to gain access to this currency, we should be able to trade the Keys on the AH for AD.

If you want something from the Trade Bar store that's Boe or not Bound, that's fine, it will be available on the AH, but there BoP stuff on there that's going to be very useful for the upcoming changes (Mount and Companion Upgrade Tokens).

There is another way to make AD useful. ViP.
If they were to say offer ViP QoL (The Signpost, Mailbox, Vendors and Banking Portal) for let's say 2 million AD per month.
And in addition to this, offer ViP benefits ( Bonus XP, AD, Rereoll token, Key, AH fees, injury immunity) for an additional 1 million per month if you purchased the first pack, then this would allow the Free to Play Community to choose if they want to use all the AD they can refine in one month to purchase ViP QoL + benefits.

Lockbox key was tradeable in AH in the beginning. That became one of the reasons why Zax's wait time was 6 months+. After they made lockbox key not tradeable. Zax wait time was better for a while. Then, wards became the new 'lockbox key' but it does not kill Zax as bad as lockbox key.

eladonwarps · January 2021

Since someone else brought up STO, I think another key difference is that Neverwinter's Auction House uses the Refinable Currency (AD), whereas STO's equivalent uses the general vendor currency (equivalent, Gold/Silver/Copper). That makes the value of the player exchange entirely different.

If the Neverwinter AH were swapped to trading on Gold instead of trading AD, it would radically alter that side of the AD supply, where big sales and playing the market directly gives you Refined Currency tradable for Zen.

plasticbat · January 2021

eladonwarps#6040 said:
Since someone else brought up STO, I think another key difference is that Neverwinter's Auction House uses the Refinable Currency (AD), whereas STO's equivalent uses the general vendor currency (equivalent, Gold/Silver/Copper). That makes the value of the player exchange entirely different.

If the Neverwinter AH were swapped to trading on Gold instead of trading AD, it would radically alter that side of the AD supply, where big sales and playing the market directly gives you Refined Currency tradable for Zen.

I don't know STO but in NW, one can generate gold non-stop. AD production has a refined limit. Gold has no limit and gold production can be fully automated legally. Gold is worth a lot less than AD which people said it is worthless already.

stark760 · January 2021

Not sure about the other games mentioned. But in NW, one of the main problems, was them letting people create an alt/invoke army, and have 50+ toons on an account. So you have people that paid for all the toon slots. Then, many of those opened or bought another account. I know for fact of a person that has 4 accounts and over 200 toons. That's what killed the ZAX. Add in the new lockboxes and tradebars being prolific, and the changes to the store to actually be able to buy something other than life scrolls....
One solution that might help a little, make it so only 1 ZAX listing per account, not 5. It won't affect the normal player that much, who have a handful of toons, or even someone that 8, 1 of each. In doing their cash grabs, they allowed people to make the 50+ toons, and then centralize on invoking mainly, and go for coal wards. They created this nightmare, because they always said they didn't want to zero the line, it was in game economy. That worked for 3-4 years. Now zeroing the line and paying out the ZEN, would only make the whales who are waiting for 20 ZAX listings to flip off 4 accounts, to post 20 more listings immediately.

grogthemagnif · January 2021

The inflation will continue until the price of one Zen = 1,000,000 AD. then players w.ll be able to sell 100 Zen for 100,000,000 AD (less any AD they happen to have on hand at time of purchase). The other idea is to CUT the price of the original items by about 72% Lock box keys would be 30 Zen, Coal Wards would be 225 Zen, 10 x Pres Wards would be 28 Zen, etc, but only those items created between 2013 and 2015 would be reduced to 28% of their Zen Value. Those items created between 2016 and 2018 would be 66% of their Zen value e.;g. VIP purchases 6 mon. (3366 Zen, 1 month 660 Zen etc.)and those items created between 2019 and 2021 [until the Zen exchange price is upped to 1000AD/Zen] then the first group would be cut to 20% (lock box keys at 25 Zen, the second group at 50% 6 mos VIP to 2650 Zen, 1 mon. VIP to 500 Zen, the third group to 75% ittems at 400 Zen would drop to 300 Zen, those at 800 Zen to 600 Zen, 100 Zen items to 75 and 1000 Zen items to 750.

If we ever got to 1,000,000 AD.1 Zen you could buy 40 Lock box keys for 1 Zen (4000 keys for 100 Zen and I could clean out (by opening) part of the thousands of lock boxes I have accumulated since 2015. 1000 Zen could open up 40+ bag slots.

xenocide · January 2021

Alot of players rely on the zax so they can get their vip.
Why not make vip a tradable token?

I don't see why it would be a problem for some to buy vip and sell or gift it to another player?

Actually, why not make every Zen market item tradable?

mentinmindmaker · January 2021

The longer the ZAX queue grows, the more expensive pwards will be on AH. And the more expensive pwards is on AH, the less people will actually buy AD from ZAX, they will rather buy pwards to sell.

With Zen goods being worth so much more on AH, the Zen supply to the ZAX is rapidly getting cut off. It is a rapid downward spiral.

ZAX was what made NW a truly F2P game. RIP ZAX.

ravenspurn · January 2021

Until Players can use AD for ViP, and the Zen is used for actual items, there will be this problem, and the ZAX will continue to inflate. Would be interesting to see the numbers of how many use ZAX zen for VIP benefits.

FTP Players are wanting Zen to Purchase VIP, but the People buying Zen have no incentive to sell their Zen for AD since it's useless to them.

If you allow Players to use all of their AD from the Month for VIP (100k per day * 30), it will decrease the amount of AD available on the Market, making it more valuable.
Also, you will find that Players will continue to purchase VIP if they have used their AD for another Purchase.

If maybe even for a short time (2-3 months), Cryptic could trial AD for VIP at 3 million AD per month for VIP benefits.
Then AD will have a value within the Game and the People buying Zen for VIP would remove their offers and the remaining would be those who wish to purchase Items.

That or even have a system like in STO with Phoenix Packs that you can purchase with AD that give Comp and Mount upgrade tokens along with Mounts, Companions, Gear, et cetera.

AD needs to have a perceived value, else it will continue to be worthless.

plasticbat · January 2021

ravenspurn#2982 said:
Until Players can use AD for ViP, and the Zen is used for actual items, there will be this problem, and the ZAX will continue to inflate. Would be interesting to see the numbers of how many use ZAX zen for VIP benefits.

FTP Players are wanting Zen to Purchase VIP, but the People buying Zen have no incentive to sell their Zen for AD since it's useless to them.

If you allow Players to use all of their AD from the Month for VIP (100k per day * 30), it will decrease the amount of AD available on the Market, making it more valuable.
Also, you will find that Players will continue to purchase VIP if they have used their AD for another Purchase.

If maybe even for a short time (2-3 months), Cryptic could trial AD for VIP at 3 million AD per month for VIP benefits.
Then AD will have a value within the Game and the People buying Zen for VIP would remove their offers and the remaining would be those who wish to purchase Items.

That or even have a system like in STO with Phoenix Packs that you can purchase with AD that give Comp and Mount upgrade tokens along with Mounts, Companions, Gear, et cetera.

AD needs to have a perceived value, else it will continue to be worthless.

The root issue is only one thing: money.

Using AD to buy VIP does not give Cryptic any money. It will decrease their revenue. The value of AD is not Cryptic's priority. Money is. I don't consider their priority is not reasonable. I would do the same thing.

ravenspurn · January 2021

That is very true, a Company's first responsibility is to stay in Business, and the second responsibility is wholly and entirely to it's shareholders and stakeholders.

What I am suggesting is to give people an outlet for the AD they have on the ZAX if it's destined for VIP.
There has been no change in the Amount of Zen being Purchased, but there has been a change in what the Zen is being used for.

Most other Games where a Premium subscription is available has an option where the User can take the avergae total monthly income and delve that into a Premium service which makes it easier for them to be active within the Game.
People who use the ingame currency for the Subscription generally are more active players and thus better for the community as a whole.

plasticbat · January 2021

ravenspurn#2982 said:

What I am suggesting is to give people an outlet for the AD they have on the ZAX if it's destined for VIP.
There has been no change in the Amount of Zen being Purchased, but there has been a change in what the Zen is being used for.

There is for sure a change of the amount of Zen purchase. VIP is their best seller and consistent seller month after month.

Group 1: players use money to buy Zen to buy VIP.
Group 2: players use AD to exchange for Zen (paid by other players) to buy VIP. They do that in time and/or stashed enough Zen.
Group 3: players has AD but cannot exchange for Zen in time to buy VIP.

There is no change for Group 1 and Group 2. Cryptic gets their money.
The change is Group 3. They have 3 options:
1. not having VIP and continue to play without it.
2. cannot live without VIP and stop playing. (not competing in Zax for the long run if they truly quit)
3. cannot live without VIP and pay money to get it. (essentially, move to Group 1)

#3 provides additional income.

With the longer Zax wait time, players in Group 2 will slowly move to Group 3. Hence, more income.
i.e. longer Zax wait time, more money they can get.

ravenspurn · January 2021

Actually I think the Keys and Key-Bundles are the best seller.
VIP costs around 8K zen per Year. People are spending that and more on that on Keys when a new Lockbox comes out.

If we have an increase in Group 3.2 (Cannot live without VIP and stop Playing), how will that impact the Game since we already have a situation where Skilled Tanks and Healers are leaving.
This is compounded by C19 Unemployment.

Simply look at the Random Queue. as a Single DPS, it can take up to 1 hour to get into a REDQ, and up to 30 minutes for a RTQ.
I main a Tank, so I don't have that problem, but I am seriously thinking about becoming 3.2 even though I purchase about 25k Zen per Year (or I did this past few years).
I have 1 month left of VIP. I am seriously considering not renewing it if this new Mod forces me to specialise.
The 15K Zen offer with the 3 Mount Choice Pack for €135 sounds tempting, but I need to see the trajectory before putting more into the Game.

If we assume that 10% of those Players in Group 3.2 regularly Tank or Heal, and have 2+ Years invested in that Tank or Healer as a Main, will this affect the current Game? Certainly!
We have new People coming into the Game, however, will the Veteran DPS Players invest their Time to get the new Player up to their level in both Tactics and Gear assuming they may not stay? The retention rate in this Game is quite low
If not, will the People who have been playing TR, HR, or CW for Years simply reroll a dedicated Tank or Healer and spend the 40+ million AD to get the required Gear, Companions, Enchants, Mounts and Insignias? Doubtful at best.

plasticbat · January 2021

Keys and key-bundle purchase can wait. Something, most can play without. If they don't use money to buy key, they can wait for Zax. Key purchase depends on the lockbox value, new mod, etc. i.e. "seasonal". If they can't wait, they use money. Good for Cryptic.

Many cannot play without VIP. i.e. they must get it one way or the other. Month after month (or 6 month after 6 month, etc). Hence, a portion of them will spend real money.

I am the player who more or less care about VIP purchase only. I always buy 6 months VIP and always buy it during the best discount. Nowayears, it is 30% off. So, for me, one year VIP is 7140 Zen. I always try to keep enough Zen so that I can buy at least one 6 month VIP next big Zen store sale (6 month to 1 year later).

With enough planning (many veterans I know are), player can work with 6 months Zax wait if they only want VIP from Zen store without paying real money.

Exchange AD for Zen

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