test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Reduction of RNG, Progression Bars, Bestiary + Monetization
alquimistgg
Member Posts: 133 Arc User
@nitocris83 @sgrantdev @eminnerdev#8159 @cryptic39#8917 @terramak @sgrantdev @lassor
First of all I apologize for any error in the text, or difficulty in understanding, I am Brazilian and I am doing this topic using the google translator.
Employee similar to the enchantment up system, where after X attempts you enter a 100% chance state. with the difference that, before reaching the 100% situation, we would have progressive tier of drop rate increase. These Tiers would be pre-defined and exposed within the game. using the images of the rows of dungeons, we have a bar of 24 runs, up to 100%. this means that when you finish run 24 you will be able to open this chest with rarer drops, (it could be 50 or 100 run, the appropriate amount the devs will say). What I propose for this special chest is the guarantee of rare drops, with the possibility of reroll, I am not asking for a legendary mount, this is not the proposal. The idea is to open a chest that turns some of the rarest items in the premium reward system, and when rerolling it will still spin for prizes of the same level, thus having a chance to spin a few times to choose a good drop. this may be something weekly maybe, or else in a continuous flow, resetting the bar as soon as the final chest is opened. It is also an option to cross random bars with specific rows. that is, if I do a REDQ and fall in the LOMM, I will add 1 progress in the REDQ bar and 1 in the LOMM bar.
About Tier are cycles of drop increase that increases the chances of rarer drops according to Tier, for example, refined AD rewards that fall in the new rewards, in Tier 2 are more likely to come in than in Tier 1, and if it does, it will be higher values. The same goes for riding tokens for example. no dropping 2 tokens in a Tier 2 progress cycle.
With that we can also better manage our reroll tokens. if I'm at the beginning of the bar, that is, Tier 1 drop cycle, the chances of bigger drops like 20 tokens, or 20k of AD are very low, so I can wait for the Tier 2 or Tier 3 cycle to spend my rerolls, and even for those who do not have a reroll and spend AD to roll, they can choose to do it only in the Tier 3 cycle or in the final prize chest of the bar.
With the implementation of a bestiary, we could not only have an official source of information but also the implementation of the progress bar. and greater clarity in drop rates.
The proposal here is similar to the dungeon progress bar, with the difference that it would not be based on the premium rewards, but on the possible drops of each mobe. setting your drop rate (the RNG layers). we would have the bar with the 3 Tiers, and each Tier would increase the drop rate of the special items (the most valuable and most sought after). I put in the example image the chain of infected mane, (again reinforcement, the numbers are merely illustrative). Assuming that the chains have a 20% drop rate, I exemplify placing the bar in Tier 2 with an increase in tava going to 40% of 100% with the bar full. In Tier 3 it could go to 60% for example. Each infected mane death progresses one bar until it is completely filled, forcing the system to drop the next dead mane. and with that the bar dries so that it starts to progress again.
Devs must define the difficulty level of the drops and adjust the bar according to the content they are working on. Currently, how many Manes at most would you need to drop a chain? for you developers, is it normal to kill 20 manes and see 1 stream? if so, we know how many steps the progress bar for that item will take. the same applies to dungeon drops, what is the drop rate to drop the chance of good drops in this new system? 5%? in that case the bar could have 20 units of progress. I'm just speculating, these are things that you will know how to organize according to what you have in mind regarding prizes.
As for the Tier I put as an example an interval of 9 runs within Tier 2, and 5 runs within Tier 3. remembering that each tier has an increase in the drop rate. but it could be 5 run with tier 2, and 2 with tier 3. I speak this just to emphasize the need to increase rates according to progress, however small, perhaps increasing by + 10% rare drops in T2 and + 20% in T3. After a certain amount of run, your effort is rewarded with the 100% chest of rare drops, where you will have 4 chances to reroll for maybe a legendary mount.
This can give players the feeling that they are not playing for nothing, after all as unlucky as it is during the rise of the bar, even if he remains in bad luck after the Tier changes, he knows that he is progressing in something on his farm. And with the bestiary of to work the lore of the enemies by placing detailed descriptions of each one and the information such as drop rate and possible items are being released as the players go on fighting the enemies.
This all makes room for more things with this segment. these progress bars could be added to the pinnacles of events for example. Devs must think. what is the maximum acceptable number of pinatas a player can open until he receives the big reward? a system like this in the jubilee chests would not only be a cuddle for players who do poorly with RNG, but it is a clear progress. Showing that you're not wasting your time.
I particularly travel a lot of progress bar systems. I saw this in some games implemented in the achievement reward system and it may be that in other areas of the game this works very well. I hope you liked the suggestion, and leave your opinion about it, or suggestions that increase these ideas. Please, let's have a healthy debate. I know that all of this is just a dream for a player who loves this game very much and wants to see it grow even more. I like to think that sometimes we are heard. Thank you all.
Edit: Here are my other posts with suggestions, for those who want to check it out:
1 - REDUCTION OF RNG, PROGRESSION BARS, BESTIARY + MONETIZATION:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1258453/reduction-of-rng-progression-bars-bestiary-monetization
2 - ENCHANTMENT SYSTEM REWORK + NEW MARK SYSTEM:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1261228/enchantment-system-rework-new-mark-system
3 - NEW RACIAL SYSTEM, SEPARATING RACIAL APPEARANCE FROM SKILLS + NEW SLOTS FOR RACE SKILLS:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1260304/new-racial-system-separating-racial-appearance-from-skills-new-slots-for-race-skills
4 - ZARIEL CHALLENGE MASTER'S MOUNT, UPGRADE SUGGESTION + CONCEPTUAL ART.:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1261527/zariel-challenge-masters-mount-upgrade-suggestion-conceptual-art
5 - NEW PARAGONS, THIRD LEVEL, ADAPTIVE SKILL BASE:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1263494/new-paragons-third-level-adaptive-skill-base
Ty all
First of all I apologize for any error in the text, or difficulty in understanding, I am Brazilian and I am doing this topic using the google translator.
-
Reduction of RNG
-
Progression Bars
Employee similar to the enchantment up system, where after X attempts you enter a 100% chance state. with the difference that, before reaching the 100% situation, we would have progressive tier of drop rate increase. These Tiers would be pre-defined and exposed within the game. using the images of the rows of dungeons, we have a bar of 24 runs, up to 100%. this means that when you finish run 24 you will be able to open this chest with rarer drops, (it could be 50 or 100 run, the appropriate amount the devs will say). What I propose for this special chest is the guarantee of rare drops, with the possibility of reroll, I am not asking for a legendary mount, this is not the proposal. The idea is to open a chest that turns some of the rarest items in the premium reward system, and when rerolling it will still spin for prizes of the same level, thus having a chance to spin a few times to choose a good drop. this may be something weekly maybe, or else in a continuous flow, resetting the bar as soon as the final chest is opened. It is also an option to cross random bars with specific rows. that is, if I do a REDQ and fall in the LOMM, I will add 1 progress in the REDQ bar and 1 in the LOMM bar.
About Tier are cycles of drop increase that increases the chances of rarer drops according to Tier, for example, refined AD rewards that fall in the new rewards, in Tier 2 are more likely to come in than in Tier 1, and if it does, it will be higher values. The same goes for riding tokens for example. no dropping 2 tokens in a Tier 2 progress cycle.
With that we can also better manage our reroll tokens. if I'm at the beginning of the bar, that is, Tier 1 drop cycle, the chances of bigger drops like 20 tokens, or 20k of AD are very low, so I can wait for the Tier 2 or Tier 3 cycle to spend my rerolls, and even for those who do not have a reroll and spend AD to roll, they can choose to do it only in the Tier 3 cycle or in the final prize chest of the bar.
-
Bestiary
With the implementation of a bestiary, we could not only have an official source of information but also the implementation of the progress bar. and greater clarity in drop rates.
The proposal here is similar to the dungeon progress bar, with the difference that it would not be based on the premium rewards, but on the possible drops of each mobe. setting your drop rate (the RNG layers). we would have the bar with the 3 Tiers, and each Tier would increase the drop rate of the special items (the most valuable and most sought after). I put in the example image the chain of infected mane, (again reinforcement, the numbers are merely illustrative). Assuming that the chains have a 20% drop rate, I exemplify placing the bar in Tier 2 with an increase in tava going to 40% of 100% with the bar full. In Tier 3 it could go to 60% for example. Each infected mane death progresses one bar until it is completely filled, forcing the system to drop the next dead mane. and with that the bar dries so that it starts to progress again.
Devs must define the difficulty level of the drops and adjust the bar according to the content they are working on. Currently, how many Manes at most would you need to drop a chain? for you developers, is it normal to kill 20 manes and see 1 stream? if so, we know how many steps the progress bar for that item will take. the same applies to dungeon drops, what is the drop rate to drop the chance of good drops in this new system? 5%? in that case the bar could have 20 units of progress. I'm just speculating, these are things that you will know how to organize according to what you have in mind regarding prizes.
As for the Tier I put as an example an interval of 9 runs within Tier 2, and 5 runs within Tier 3. remembering that each tier has an increase in the drop rate. but it could be 5 run with tier 2, and 2 with tier 3. I speak this just to emphasize the need to increase rates according to progress, however small, perhaps increasing by + 10% rare drops in T2 and + 20% in T3. After a certain amount of run, your effort is rewarded with the 100% chest of rare drops, where you will have 4 chances to reroll for maybe a legendary mount.
This can give players the feeling that they are not playing for nothing, after all as unlucky as it is during the rise of the bar, even if he remains in bad luck after the Tier changes, he knows that he is progressing in something on his farm. And with the bestiary of to work the lore of the enemies by placing detailed descriptions of each one and the information such as drop rate and possible items are being released as the players go on fighting the enemies.
-
Monetization
This all makes room for more things with this segment. these progress bars could be added to the pinnacles of events for example. Devs must think. what is the maximum acceptable number of pinatas a player can open until he receives the big reward? a system like this in the jubilee chests would not only be a cuddle for players who do poorly with RNG, but it is a clear progress. Showing that you're not wasting your time.
I particularly travel a lot of progress bar systems. I saw this in some games implemented in the achievement reward system and it may be that in other areas of the game this works very well. I hope you liked the suggestion, and leave your opinion about it, or suggestions that increase these ideas. Please, let's have a healthy debate. I know that all of this is just a dream for a player who loves this game very much and wants to see it grow even more. I like to think that sometimes we are heard. Thank you all.
Below are images with examples below:
Edit: Here are my other posts with suggestions, for those who want to check it out:
1 - REDUCTION OF RNG, PROGRESSION BARS, BESTIARY + MONETIZATION:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1258453/reduction-of-rng-progression-bars-bestiary-monetization
2 - ENCHANTMENT SYSTEM REWORK + NEW MARK SYSTEM:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1261228/enchantment-system-rework-new-mark-system
3 - NEW RACIAL SYSTEM, SEPARATING RACIAL APPEARANCE FROM SKILLS + NEW SLOTS FOR RACE SKILLS:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1260304/new-racial-system-separating-racial-appearance-from-skills-new-slots-for-race-skills
4 - ZARIEL CHALLENGE MASTER'S MOUNT, UPGRADE SUGGESTION + CONCEPTUAL ART.:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1261527/zariel-challenge-masters-mount-upgrade-suggestion-conceptual-art
5 - NEW PARAGONS, THIRD LEVEL, ADAPTIVE SKILL BASE:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1263494/new-paragons-third-level-adaptive-skill-base
Ty all
- ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914Post edited by alquimistgg#0914 on
Tagged:
26
Comments
Love the graphics and the tier progression idea, that really neat and tidy.
Now doing the same to dungeons rewards... well let's say i wouldn't hold my breath if i were you, plus, they already said there would be an event that would increase the drop rate of "premium rewards"
I couldn't believe it cost me 4 Thievery Kits to unlock it - at a purported 75% chance of success???
So just for yuks, when I got to the other side, I tried unlocking the door again. At least it only cost me TWO this time. Which is the way things ought to be with a progressive chance RNG system. IF I didn't get it on the first try, which is a reasonable expectation for a 75% chance.
Your thievery kit broke? Congratulations. You just jammed the mechanism and now no one can unlock it.
Be careful of what you ask for.
BEFORE using any kit, the probability that the door is not opened after
1 try = 25%.
2 tries = 6,25%. (25%²)
3 tries = 1,56% (25%³)
4 tries = 0,40% (25%⁴)
So, BEFORE using any kit, you have :
75% chances to open the door with 1 kits in your bag
93.75% chances to open the door with 2 kits in your bag (100%-6.25%)
98.44% chances to open the door with 3 kits in your bag (100%-1.56%)
99,60% chances to open the door with 4 kits in your bag (100%-0.40%).
But yeah, that's frustating to be the one who has bad luck on RNG ^^
I understand that there have already been improvements in this regard, but they can work with more transparency in some situations to improve the player's experience.
Of course, these graphics that I made were more to be used as inspiration, but anything well worked and well thought out in this sense, being implemented in the basic aspects of the game, such as randon dungeon mobes and specific dungeons will be a great gain for the game
Just to exemplify the suggestion:
Imagine a bar divided into 50 parts, one for each completed HE, tier 1 would go from fraction 1 to 25 giving the 2 standard diamonds per HE, from 26 to 40 we would be in tier 2 winning 3 diamonds per HE, and 41 at 50 we would be in tier 3 with a drop of 4 diamonds per HE. notice that in the current scenario of the game we have 100 diamonds after 50 HEs, already in the suggested scenario there are 135 diamonds, 35 most diamonds only, but the farm would be a little more dynamic and you can observe this progression, and even if the final chest of this 50 diamonds would not break the farm, and if necessary the drop rate could be slightly reduced to balance the extra gain.
To strengthen my point of view of progress bars within this new farm, imagine that in the final chest the gain is 65 diamants, together with the 35 bonus that was farmed, we would have a gain of 100 more critals. or double the drop right? notice how all this would be much more exciting mainly in the visual aspect of the game, than if the drop of diamonds were simply doubled from 2 diamonds per HE to 4 diamonds per HE, the farm would continue to be boring and repetitive. I'm not saying that a simple progression bar with a bonus is making the farm less repetitive, but it would simply give you a sense of progression.
Even if using as an example the scenario of 35 bonus diamonds from the bar, plus 65 from the final bonus, to adjust the gain in double, a slight reduction in the drop rate when opening the diamonds was enough.
Leave your views on this, I would like to know if anyone else has thought of something like this for this farme.
I made an illustrative image, I like to do it, for a clearer vision than I am imagining. honestly just looking at this simulated image already makes me much more willing to farm those damn heroic encounters lol
One thing I think it's really strange about the game is that except for some titles, there are lots of achievements do complete that give us barely nothing back.
Some of that could work similar to boons. After killing 500 skeletons you gain like 1-2% damage boost agains those creatures, for example. I'm one of those freaky achievements seeker and it's not like we're having something good for it. And some of them will take a lot of time do complete.
Though I understand most people don't care about it, it could make them do. Also, it could bring some light to those maps where we go just for guild farming (which is currently boring, time consuming and barelt worthy) or to finish Sybella weeklies.
One thing that frustrates me sometimes is that once you finish a map/campaign you have barely no reason to get back there, and when you have to do it, you loose a lot of time for simple things. Specially now after combat rework.
This progressing bar could make all of the "past" content much more attractive even for advanced players. Thus, motivating us to interact with new players and doing content together. Cause right now it's mostly like "hm, get o level 80, than raise your ilv to 35k, than we can do something". The gap between new and old players just grows bigger. And if we're supposed to farm just a few maps/dgs that are minimally worth the time invested (like we kinda are right now), it's even more likely to grow.
I used to play some games that had a similar system for in-game achievements and it was really fun to do. It could be even account-wide unlocks, like a personal legacy, making the path easier for yout next characters (SWTOR used have a very interesting system for those unlocks... haven't played in years but it would be something to look for).
I imagine how it could be progress bars like mate 500 demonions, to advance a level in a demon hunter achievement by going to the next bar with 1000 demons and so on.
Regarding the rewards of the achievement system, this really is a case that should be well thought out. I do believe that they should be for the entire account as well as unlocking dungeons, but the damage bonus part I think is complicated precisely because it would become part of the build "forcing" people who don't like to look for achievements to start looking for this. I really can't think of a good reward option at the moment besides visual items for weapon equipment and mounts exclusive to this content, unique dyes with new exclusive colors. maybe something besides visual can be added but I think it has to be something not so relevant that even those who don’t like it wanted to do it, and good enough for those who like it can be well repaid. Maybe some gross AD for each achievement released, or even some account features like ward and resurrection scrolls, this really is something that leaves me without a lot of ideas.
I know that my other suggestions like new Enchant and Race systems, besides being recent, are much more complex in their structure, in fact they were suggestions that serve as a way to open the mind to the possibilities and some of the details involved in these suggestions can be used to Neverwinter someday. However, this suggestion of reducing RNG through the implementation of progress bars is something urgent. the frustration generated to players by the RNG is huge, this is a topic that needs to be work as soon as possible, bestiary can even be left aside, however interesting it is.
I showed in the comments how the progression stop could have entered the new sharandar campaigns in a simple way. Now with the EP3 I see one more possibility of doing this lost through the BHE's blouse and pants farms, again we are at the full mercy of the RNG.
A good current example is the VoS ring farm which is an annoying RNG with a low drop rate, and when you are bestowed with a legendary ring you get an inconsistent distribution, Tank getting dps and healer rings, dps getting healer rings and tank, healer getting tank rings and dps, it's that kind of nonsense that the RNG gives us.
This topic is about a way to Control this "RNG" make no mistake, I'm not suggesting that everything is easy and simple to achieve, but that repetition is adequately rewarded. I got the Power and Accuracy ring in one of my first VoS, thinking I wasn't even looking for it, while others looking for it are already at almost 100 VoS runs or even more in some cases, and I didn't get this ring .
it cost nothing to have a drop of a legendary diamond serving as currency to buy the ring you want from an NPC in sharandar, something a bit similar to what we will receive in VoS Hard Core.
but going further, imagine that each ring has a specific price, between 1 and 3 legendary diamonds, based on which ring is rare for you developers. This would be very good for RNG reduction, I could have taken some of the tank rings I dropped, and get the ring I need if I had this system.
And where do the progression bars come in? A bar added anywhere, in the queue details as in the assembly I made, on the campaign page, or even in a new menu to monitor your rewards. With this bar a specific amount of VoS completions would be set to slightly increase the drop rate of legendary diamonds until it reaches the maximum which is where you have a drop guarantee, then set 10 VoS for each legendary diamond if the player drop one before reaching the maximum bar it resets, or not, just let the bar fill for one more legendary diamond and after that it resets, this is already details that then in the balance between RNG and Meritocracy.
The premium rewards turned out to be a disappointment for me, even though I was very happy with its implementation, firstly that the difficulty vs reward ratio doesn't seem to work well, and secondly because the RNG of it is very high. Even worse is when it comes to RNG in Hunts, the amount of players traumatized by it is high, many don't even want to see the Avernus map anymore because of this, others still do because they are bugging the Hunts lures as if they didn't hear tomorrow, and maybe there really isn't.
I really appreciate the attention to new content, new class and everything else, but we have serious structural problems which I would very much like to see prioritized, and I don't think I'm the only one.
@nitocris83 @sgrantdev @eminnerdev#8159 @cryptic39#8917 @terramak @sgrantdev @lassor