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Cradle of Death God still a pain in pugs

lldtlldt Member Posts: 197 Arc User
edited October 2020 in General Discussion (PC)
Besides the usual problems we've all seen with new players, today there was an obvious group of friends in CODG who knew to bring the skull to the face, BUT didn't know you need to deliver a deathblow to it and knock it into Acererak before skull disappears, so they were telling people not to hit it. By the time they went to attack it, it was too late. Couldn't convince them otherwise because they've "done this trial a few times already."

Besides this ridiculous scenario, there's the usual ones we seem to encounter that make pugging this worse than a coin toss. I suggested they watch some youtube videos and checked out a couple myself and realize they didn't properly explain it either.

This trial is ultimately just a big frustration for everyone.
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Comments

  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    Always going to be people who think they are right, best you can do is try and show them another way. Just like the Thoon Hulks in Throne of the Dwarven Gods, people either just don't read chat, think there is another way, or are just trolling.
  • sagakaiyume#0847 sagakaiyume Member Posts: 338 Arc User
    While there is little you can do to teach mechanics to a group in there on the fly, specially last phase, the extra IL we all got from collars and mounts really made it so pretty much anyone can run anything once they're 80 and have basic random 80 gear. Newer players likely got a free extra 2k IL that just ends up scaling them down more. Maybe we should have an increase to item lv requirements by 2k across the board (while everyone knows IL shouldn't be how things are handled, its what we have to deal with, so its about as fair as can be with little effort).
  • kierlakxkierlakx Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    I can't hear you over the sound of the minimum of two people per CoDG that are using abyssal chicken. It doesn't matter if they know the mechanics if chicken is constantly chewing on the mechanics' corpse.
  • lldtlldt Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    arazith07 said:

    Always going to be people who think they are right, best you can do is try and show them another way.

    Well, hard to explain that you have to kill the skull to bounce it and waiting until skull is right up against Acererak is too late. Difficult to convince when they think killing the skull destroys it. Their reply was to call me an idiot. Then I check youtube and there was at least one "guide" that says "don't kill the skulls." Can't believe there isn't a good guide for this.

    Post edited by lldt on
  • krevgkrevg Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    > @kierlakx said:
    > (Quote)
    > No. I reject your reality and replace it with abyssal chicken.

    I see your chicken and raise you four misdirected skulls and 3 dead cubes that didn't even move.
  • tchefi#6735 tchefi Member Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    My opinion about all of that :
    You don't want to be paired with misinformed/uninformed/clueless/blind or deaf/newb players ? Don't tag without a full friendly premade who know what to do.
    Simple. Efficient.

    You want to tag without a premade of friends ? you have to accept you may pick all the wide spectrum of skill, equipment, knowledge, age, mentality, ability/disability, etc, in your party.
    Logic.


    Or maybe the game should prevent a colorblind 68yo guy with 3 remaining fingers on his left hand from playing a part of the game on his 30k toon ?
    (because yeah, trust me, even though he had finish CoDG hundred of times, he wont be able to aim right with the skulls, will sometimes kill a cube before it reaches a corner, and will die during the pull-push).

    Or should we be just more tolerant about each others, and relativize a bit when the run with random people is not going perfectly/failing ?
  • kingurz#9680 kingurz Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    I will take a jacked up PUG in CODG any day over a semi-average PUG group in Castle Ravenloft. With CODG, there's still a small chance.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    the part in codg that seems impossible in pugs is actually at the death baby. I don't know what causes it but it seems like unless you are in an alliance run or get lucky and plopped into another alliances run the group wipes here for some unknown reason. doesn't even have to do with the pp. it has to be a tank or heals role but I don't know what it is or what causes it.

    but yeah trying to explain the skull and that you actually can wipe on the cube can be difficult.


    and yes. CRL is FAR worse. the final boss sword thing is still bugged and trying to explain the mechs of the first and second fight are just about impossible. I stayed in a run the other day that finally ended up taking 1.5 hours and all the noobs in the game ended up being replaced (no didn't kick anyone) with people who have been around since it was a new dungeon. it needs a nerf or a fix or to be taken out of the que.
  • rikitakirikitaki Member Posts: 773 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    I ended up in CoDG yesterday and the baby phase was weird. I kept losing my HP for no apparent reason (no aggro, no icy floor, no red circles) - I guess the graphics now does not reflect every attack? Well, and then there was the classic big deadly AoE spawning right under you during the pull-push phase...

    Otherwise, if combat companions are supposed to be a thing, there really is a need for them not to attack things that are not supposed to be attacked - like skulls from the wrong direction, jelly cubes in the middle, various ice blocks, Nostura when she wants to be alone...
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 969 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    lldt said:

    Besides the usual problems we've all seen with new players, today there was an obvious group of friends in CODG who knew to bring the skull to the face, BUT didn't know you need to deliver a deathblow to it and knock it into Acererak before skull disappears, so they were telling people not to hit it. By the time they went to attack it, it was too late. Couldn't convince them otherwise because they've "done this trial a few times already."

    Besides this ridiculous scenario, there's the usual ones we seem to encounter that make pugging this worse than a coin toss. I suggested they watch some youtube videos and checked out a couple myself and realize they didn't properly explain it either.

    This trial is ultimately just a big frustration for everyone.

    Usual problems with new players.. I like that ..

    IF you don't like what you get in Public random q,, then make whole q group with friends or guild/alliance members.

    IF you get in random PuG, then accept that not all will knew all dungeons and their mechanics, and no all have ideal gear.
    Also not all have been through countless times. For some it's maybe that CoDG was second time.

    Lot of players, and mostly old timers seems lack patience, and they play thsi game as it would be slot mashine.
    All they care only chest and random rewarding.. While ignoring the main game, which is to do content with friends or random players and have own adventure. :)
    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    rikitaki said:

    I ended up in CoDG yesterday and the baby phase was weird. I kept losing my HP for no apparent reason (no aggro, no icy floor, no red circles) - I guess the graphics now does not reflect every attack? Well, and then there was the classic big deadly AoE spawning right under you during the pull-push phase...

    Otherwise, if combat companions are supposed to be a thing, there really is a need for them not to attack things that are not supposed to be attacked - like skulls from the wrong direction, jelly cubes in the middle, various ice blocks, Nostura when she wants to be alone...

    in codg if you do the mechanics fast enough pets aren't an issue. the problem is when people don't know the mechanics and won't listen. and for things like nostura you have to just take comps off before final battle again try and tell that to redq
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User

    I don't know what causes it but it seems like unless you are in an alliance run or get lucky and plopped into another alliances run the group wipes here for some unknown reason.

    The main reason I see wipes at baby is that people die so they are kicked to respawn or at least have a heavy ress penalty so their dps is severely reduced.

    Then the team have too little dps to kill Acerackckckck fast enough and wipe on the dps check.

    It would help a lot in Codg if people would read their chat. At least everything up to baby can be explained on the fly.
  • tchefi#6735 tchefi Member Posts: 308 Arc User

    It would help a lot in Codg if people would read their chat. At least everything up to baby can be explained on the fly.

    You are assuming everyone is able to read/understand english I suppose.
  • cracklepants#2252 cracklepants Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    Almost as bad as PUG LOMM with a DPS in the group at 67K power
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,518 Arc User
    Its time to get rid of the push pull phases in the baby section of CoDG its hard enough in a Pug without the added misery of the push pull phase. Yeah I know this will make it much easier, but it will keep the difficulty in line with the other Epic Trials.

    Currently Tiamat and Demo are a breeze in RTQ

    Svardborg is 80/20 success/fail rate in RTQ [from my observations]

    CoDG is less than 50% success rate in Pug, so remove the push pull phase to bring it inline with the other Trials please.
  • nooneatzanooneatza Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    "remove push pull"
    Why not just replace all the mobs in any type of group content with one training dummy with 1 hp. The said group content ends when the dummy reaches 0 hp. It would be awesome, queue up for cradle, hit the dummy once for 1 damage, get chests. omgmegenius
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,518 Arc User
    nooneatza said:

    "remove push pull"
    Why not just replace all the mobs in any type of group content with one training dummy with 1 hp. The said group content ends when the dummy reaches 0 hp. It would be awesome, queue up for cradle, hit the dummy once for 1 damage, get chests. omgmegenius

    Yes I get your point, but the final phase of CoDG is hard enough in a pug anyways and much harder than the other Trials in the queue. There is enough mayhem going on at the final boss.

    In an alliance or guild queue I take your point completely it may make it way too easy.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 969 Arc User
    edited October 2020

    Its time to get rid of the push pull phases in the baby section of CoDG its hard enough in a Pug without the added misery of the push pull phase. Yeah I know this will make it much easier, but it will keep the difficulty in line with the other Epic Trials.

    Currently Tiamat and Demo are a breeze in RTQ

    Svardborg is 80/20 success/fail rate in RTQ [from my observations]

    CoDG is less than 50% success rate in Pug, so remove the push pull phase to bring it inline with the other Trials please.

    Why not remove trial itself.. And make one clear room, no enemies, no mechanics, just few chests for reward claiming.
    You get in this dungeon/trial, claim reward, thats it.. No complains, all happy.

    Sorry for sarcasm.

    Now on topic, the problem lies in players itself, both in new and old ones.

    The old ones, lot of time due high stats, simply clear dungeons all alone, and new ones don't even understand what the heck happened.

    As for new players, well the problem is that, they got used to be carried through content.. Lot of time during random queue dungeons, they where only passangers, their input where very little required. All what they had to do is follow group and claim rewards.

    Also gameplay is causing problems in such dungeons..

    From lv 1 to lv 80 you may play some as some sort action combat. Try avoid some damage by using in game mechanics and dodge mechanics.
    Once players reach IL 23k or higher and reach certain stats, then gameplay become more less> ignoring dungeons mechanics and bulldozing them through. No thinking, just keyboard hammering.


    Cradle Of Death God is one of few trials, which >>> Demands< you to understand it's mechanics in order to clear it. You may have top stats, if you don't know how mechanics work, you will fail.
    Also it's require your to pay attention to whats happening on screen, rather blindly hammering keyboard.

    IF players can't clear CoDG, so how they plan to move forward and do higher tier Trials??

    Trials should remain as they are now. You want to clear it, you have to learn, and enough of this current meta, that someone will come and clear content for you.
    After 20 fails they may start reading guides. Or they will skip it.. Thats for them to decide.
    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • tchefi#6735 tchefi Member Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited October 2020

    the final phase of CoDG is hard enough in a pug anyways and much harder than the other Trials in the queue.

    All the trials in the RTQ list should have the same difficulty ? CoDG (released in 2018) as the last one should be as easy as previous ones mSVA (released in 2016), eDemo (released in 2015) or Tiamat (released in 2014) ? What will you say when baby Zariel will enter the list (quite probable in the future + raise up of the IL to enter the RTQ) ?
    TiC will also make it to the ReDQ one day too ^^
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited October 2020

    I don't know what causes it but it seems like unless you are in an alliance run or get lucky and plopped into another alliances run the group wipes here for some unknown reason.

    The main reason I see wipes at baby is that people die so they are kicked to respawn or at least have a heavy ress penalty so their dps is severely reduced.

    Then the team have too little dps to kill Acerackckckck fast enough and wipe on the dps check.

    It would help a lot in Codg if people would read their chat. At least everything up to baby can be explained on the fly.
    no this is something that is unexplainable by any normal means. it happens to me as well. I just lose all my health and die for no reason after the pp often I die again as soon as I get up (along with everyone else). I'm end game. good gear, good hp, I know pp so don't ever go down there unless I get caught up in lag or broken mechs like red areas showing up during it and cc'ing me. it doesn't happen in alliance runs. so it has to be something heals or tanks or something mitigates. I just don't know what broken mechanic is at play here.

    I have enough dps to pretty much solo the baby if I had to. acerak is def no problem for any run I'm in (and I don't think that's any thing special here. it doesn't take a lot of dps to have enough to solo acerak.. it takes a very very low group of people to have the problems you're describing. if you have even one end game dps on your team it shouldn't be an issue)

    there is definitely something broken with the baby.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,518 Arc User

    Push pull mechanic should stay, but the huge AOE area must be looked at. This mechanic is very often invisible and this is what kills half of the team often.

    Yep, this as well.

    I don't know what causes it but it seems like unless you are in an alliance run or get lucky and plopped into another alliances run the group wipes here for some unknown reason.

    The main reason I see wipes at baby is that people die so they are kicked to respawn or at least have a heavy ress penalty so their dps is severely reduced.

    Then the team have too little dps to kill Acerackckckck fast enough and wipe on the dps check.

    It would help a lot in Codg if people would read their chat. At least everything up to baby can be explained on the fly.
    no this is something that is unexplainable by any normal means. it happens to me as well. I just lose all my health and die for no reason after the pp often I die again as soon as I get up (along with everyone else). I'm end game. good gear, good hp, I know pp so don't ever go down there unless I get caught up in lag or broken mechs like red areas showing up during it and cc'ing me. it doesn't happen in alliance runs. so it has to be something heals or tanks or something mitigates. I just don't know what broken mechanic is at play here.

    I have enough dps to pretty much solo the baby if I had to. acerak is def no problem for any run I'm in (and I don't think that's any thing special here. it doesn't take a lot of dps to have enough to solo acerak.. it takes a very very low group of people to have the problems you're describing. if you have even one end game dps on your team it shouldn't be an issue)

    there is definitely something broken with the baby.
    And this, ive had it happen to me numerous times.

    My point on the push pull is that if 2 or 3 players die in that phase, theres huge red aoe eveywhere which makes it very very hard to rezz them.

    Its time to get rid of the push pull phases in the baby section of CoDG its hard enough in a Pug without the added misery of the push pull phase. Yeah I know this will make it much easier, but it will keep the difficulty in line with the other Epic Trials.

    Currently Tiamat and Demo are a breeze in RTQ

    Svardborg is 80/20 success/fail rate in RTQ [from my observations]

    CoDG is less than 50% success rate in Pug, so remove the push pull phase to bring it inline with the other Trials please.

    Why not remove trial itself.. And make one clear room, no enemies, no mechanics, just few chests for reward claiming.
    You get in this dungeon/trial, claim reward, thats it.. No complains, all happy.

    Sorry for sarcasm.

    I enjoy a challenge as much as anyone. I like a fair fight, or at least the chance of a fair fight, to me the baby sequence seems like loads of overkill in PUG groups. Someone mentioned losign loads of HP/dying out of the blue. Yep. Thats happened to me as well.



  • zyronaxzyronax Member Posts: 153 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    > @hadestemplar#9918 said:
    > (Quote)
    > Usual problems with new players.. I like that ..
    >
    > IF you don't like what you get in Public random q,, then make whole q group with friends or guild/alliance members.
    >
    > IF you get in random PuG, then accept that not all will knew all dungeons and their mechanics, and no all have ideal gear.
    > Also not all have been through countless times. For some it's maybe that CoDG was second time.
    >
    > Lot of players, and mostly old timers seems lack patience, and they play thsi game as it would be slot mashine.
    > All they care only chest and random rewarding.. While ignoring the main game, which is to do content with friends or random players and have own adventure. :)

    Remove the only steady, reliable, quick source of significant rAD from the random queues (and bring back solo dungeon runs with significant rAD rewards like it used to be), and you've got yourself a deal. Otherwise noobs need to avail themselves of the same internet connection they use to play this game, to access videos and *accurate* guides. 🙂

    Noobs already got catered to by easy access to lvl 80, easy access to r8-9+ enchantments, easy access to decent - sometimes even BiS - gear, instant access to legendary mount speed (which I've advocated for, for years), and the current random queue system was created to cater to noobs having queue times pop faster - especially for old content.

    In short: there has been and continues to be plenty of 'looking out for' newcomers. They need to step up and own their own actions and decisions....just like everyone else.
  • xenocide#6119 xenocide Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    Codg is rough but a couple HDPS can carry the party for the most part it just takes a bit longer sometimes with the skull phase.

    But if you think that is bad, just wait until ToMM ends up in the RTQ.... lol
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    Codg is rough but a couple HDPS can carry the party for the most part it just takes a bit longer sometimes with the skull phase.

    But if you think that is bad, just wait until ToMM ends up in the RTQ.... lol

    not true because of the above mentioned bugs in the death baby phase. I've tried to use scrolls of life even but die pretty much immediately due to whatever bug it is that is going on after the pp phases.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,016 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    Always going to be people who think they are right, best you can do is try and show them another way. Just like the Thoon Hulks in Throne of the Dwarven Gods, people either just don't read chat, think there is another way, or are just trolling.

    Before mod 16 there was a group of kids on PS4 that would run Throne of the Dwarven Gods over and over again and purposely sabotage the Thoon Hulks. It was so infuriating but eventuality saw it was only happening with one group of people and just avoided them from then on.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User


    no this is something that is unexplainable by any normal means. it happens to me as well. I just lose all my health and die for no reason after the pp often I die again as soon as I get up (along with everyone else). I'm end game. good gear, good hp, I know pp so don't ever go down there unless I get caught up in lag or broken mechs like red areas showing up during it and cc'ing me. it doesn't happen in alliance runs. so it has to be something heals or tanks or something mitigates. I just don't know what broken mechanic is at play here.

    I have enough dps to pretty much solo the baby if I had to. acerak is def no problem for any run I'm in (and I don't think that's any thing special here. it doesn't take a lot of dps to have enough to solo acerak.. it takes a very very low group of people to have the problems you're describing. if you have even one end game dps on your team it shouldn't be an issue)

    there is definitely something broken with the baby.

    You are aware of the arm sweep right?

    You can see him animate sweeping his arm over the playfield, there is no red field associated with it.

    Not all things happening is signalled by red fields, you sometimes need to watch the mob animations.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    I once got PUG inserted into a CODG toward the end, while every player was abandoning. Acerak is not easy to solo cause there is a time limit, which I almost failed. I failed on the Baby due to hitting 5 deaths... and couldn't use anymore scrolls. He/IT had about 20% of health remaining. So, it is soloable, but not easy. Also I dont think you could get past the first stage unless you could find a companion that would damage the skull from the back side after you surge ahead of them and stand on the edge.

    I get weird insta-deaths in CODG too (about 10% of the time), but am fairly certain its my lack of understanding the mechanics.
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