Astral lockbox 100K AD cost is a rip off

rockster#6227
rockster#6227 Member Posts: 821 Arc User
I welcomed the news that with the introduction of the Astral Lockbox, finally after years and years, people could access the contents of a lockbox and participate in this part of the game without being forced to spend real world cash which many playing the game simply don't have. I still believe it is a great step in the right direction and needs to stay in some form, however 100K AD for one box, are you joking? The RNG on the leg mounts (which is why people will spend on these boxes, be honest) is so low that you would burn though many 100's of thousands of refined AD and see nothing. You could likely buy the other contents of the boxes on the AH for far less AD than you would ultimately spend on lockboxes trying for a leg mount anyway. Can this game stop being stingy and start being a little more generous. This will ultimately translate to a happier playerbase. I would suggest that something in the region of 20k or less AD would be a more appropriate cost for one lockbox.

Comments

  • arazith07
    arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,442 Arc User
    Undiscounted Astral Lockbox is 100k AD, undiscounted normal lockbox key is 125 Zen ($1.25) or 93,750 AD. Seems to me the price is fairly similar. You are essentially paying 6k so you don't have to wait a month for the Zen exchange.
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,470 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    1. It is not an introduction of Astral lockbox which was introduced months ago. It is a 'return' of Astral lockbox.
    2. You should not pay 100K AD for one box. If you 'really' want to buy it, you should pay either 75K (if you have VIP) or around 84K (or less) from AH (if you don't have VIP).
    3. It is cheaper than normal lockbox key price and you don't need to wait for Zen exchange.
    4. No, one should not gamble on lockbox if they are not 'good' in RNG God's eyes.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,462 Arc User
    Bought 10. Got an Acct Leg mount.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • kharkov58
    kharkov58 Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    Cryptic seems to thing that refinement points are epic or legendary rewards. If you can afford to gamble on these boxes, you probably do not need refinement points. Especially since the odds are all three rewards in the box are RP.
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited October 2020
  • sandukutupu
    sandukutupu Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User
    The Astral Lockbox is there to pull AD not create it. I would never expect to pay out 75K to 100K for this and get more from selling the contents in the Auction House. I purchased 20 of them for other players to open, I don't use VIP so I bought these in the AH at a very reasonable price. While they are very tempting to open, I never have much luck on scratch off lottery tickets... I give those away to family members at Christmas/Hanukkah and Birthdays. The people I give these to just have to be in the game playing and having fun. Explain to me how this is a rip off? The state lottery says 1 in 7 tickets are winners, I never had a family member yet win much over $100. If I have fun buying them and giving them away, I guess you don't need or want one?

    Have fun! <3
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  • kharkov58
    kharkov58 Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    Selling the contents of the lockboxes does not "Create" it. All it does is move existing AD from one account to another, and removes the 10% listing fee in the process
  • sandukutupu
    sandukutupu Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User
    kharkov58 said:

    Selling the contents of the lockboxes does not "Create" it. All it does is move existing AD from one account to another, and removes the 10% listing fee in the process

    True, point taken, I should have used procure or accumulate, instead of create. Thank you for the correction. The Astral Boxes are not there to make you rich overnight.
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  • zimxero#8085
    zimxero#8085 Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    When items are added to the trade economy, it causes deflation. (cost of items go down)
    When items are removed from the trade economy, it causes inflation. (cost of items go up)

    When AD is added to the trade economy, it causes inflation. (cost of items go up)
    When AD is removed from the trade economy, it causes deflation. (cost of items go down)

    That's a general and simple first rule, but most items/events add other layers of cause and effect to it, like supply/demand.
    It would actually be very interesting to read a real and simplified book on game economies. The biggest mistake people make when thinking of them is to put things into the wrong category to begin with. The next mistake is to miss other factors affecting a subject. The next mistake is to fail to understand that the whole system is a dynamic ecosystem, like a wetland or a forest. Some things affect others more than we can predict. It is said that if we remove honeybees, that almost half of the organisms on earth would go extinct as a result. Whether true or not, it is difficult to know. Luckily, a game economy is much more forgiving.

    In my opinion the Astral lock box has NO issues. It is worth between 70 and 90% of its retail value at the start. It's fun. If its not fun for you, don't get one. It is set at a value similar to slot machines. They could put payback at 200%, but then peeps would buy as many as they could until the items inside become so numerous that their price drops and they sell like water. This is just disruptive and unbalancing, not to mention, it would devalue the contents of many keyed lockboxes. They could have gone up to 100% with an AD lockbox... but 80 to 90 is probably the safe zone.
  • rockster#6227
    rockster#6227 Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    I'm simply making my views known, they are neither right nor wrong, just my views, as are yours. Bear in mind though that 100,000 AD is a full days 'work' for a free player, the most you can refine in one day, so a full days income. Is a whole day's AD grinding and the hours that involves worth one lockbox which is most likely going to give you nothing of any real worth because the RNG is so low? Not to me. Nope. I was told by a veteran player (since beta) not to bother with them as they were a rip-off and not worth the time, I had already looked in the AD store and saw they were 100,000 AD each and I agreed with them when they said that, I decided to make my views known here as well because, well, it is a feedback thread you know. ;-)
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,470 Arc User
    edited October 2020

    I'm simply making my views known, they are neither right nor wrong, just my views, as are yours. Bear in mind though that 100,000 AD is a full days 'work' for a free player, the most you can refine in one day, so a full days income. Is a whole day's AD grinding and the hours that involves worth one lockbox which is most likely going to give you nothing of any real worth because the RNG is so low? Not to me. Nope. I was told by a veteran player (since beta) not to bother with them as they were a rip-off and not worth the time, I had already looked in the AD store and saw they were 100,000 AD each and I agreed with them when they said that, I decided to make my views known here as well because, well, it is a feedback thread you know. ;-)

    This lockbox mainly aims for those who have tons and tons of AD but could not convert to Zen fast, don't know what to do with their AD in short term, losing millions means nothing to them. If it can also catch the little fishes that swim by, it also serves its extra AD sink purpose. Little fish knows that 100K is 'a lot' and usually they would be careful about spending that.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • micky1p00
    micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,540 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    I more assume that those that have millions upon millions are savvy enough to not buy those boxes.
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,470 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    micky1p00 said:

    I more assume that those that have millions upon millions are savvy enough to not buy those boxes.

    They cast the net but it does not mean the whale would bite. It is like gift card, kind of dumb buying it (without some kind of discount) but people still buy it.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • sandukutupu
    sandukutupu Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User

    I'm simply making my views known, they are neither right nor wrong, just my views, as are yours. Bear in mind though that 100,000 AD is a full days 'work' for a free player, the most you can refine in one day, so a full days income. Is a whole day's AD grinding and the hours that involves worth one lockbox which is most likely going to give you nothing of any real worth because the RNG is so low? Not to me. Nope. I was told by a veteran player (since beta) not to bother with them as they were a rip-off and not worth the time, I had already looked in the AD store and saw they were 100,000 AD each and I agreed with them when they said that, I decided to make my views known here as well because, well, it is a feedback thread you know. ;-)

    This lockbox mainly aims for those who have tons and tons of AD but could not convert to Zen fast, don't know what to do with their AD in short term, losing millions means nothing to them. If it can also catch the little fishes that swim by, it also serves its extra AD sink purpose. Little fish knows that 100K is 'a lot' and usually they would be careful about spending that.
    Speaking from the "free player" point of view, I have few million AD in my bank and because of 2 weeks of double currency from Barovia my 100K personal backlog started on Sept. 10th and hasn't ended yet. Meaning all I can do is get online and pick one of my 8 characters to refine their rough to 100K AD. This will continue until they run dry. I don't convert my AD to Zen, I haven't done that for years. I don't have to grind at all when I am having fun.

    Players with AD seeking fun, are more than welcome to attend the Barovian Bash and set up their own contests and games for players. That is what I do with all that extra AD. I buy stuff in the auction and bank it for this player made event.

    Players seeking prizes or items that can be converted back into AD (sold in the auction), should be in Barovia on the 21st and ready to play a game. I hope we have a good crowd like we did last year. Those little fish should be getting leveled up to 70 minimum to attend this event.

    Have fun! <3
    wb-cenders.gif
  • zimxero#8085
    zimxero#8085 Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    Actually, it can be a very good investment to buy Astral Lockboxes and then resell them whole once they become scarce.
  • darthpotater
    darthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,162 Arc User
    Astral lockbox should have a mythic mount. One different than the normal lockbox. Then we can talk.
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  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    I always buy one or two for fun. I always regret it...
  • reg1981
    reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,410 Arc User

    I always buy one or two for fun. I always regret it...

    Same, grabbed 10 this time around. Got nothing close to 750k value from it. BUT a friend pulled account wide Triceratops on his 3rd box.

    1 of my boxes matches a screen shot posted above by someone else, 4 alendrites (40k RP) for 75k AD XD

    Why am I not upset, because my expectations were on point. The results I got, were the results I expected. It's a gamble that can not be edged in your favor. Roll the dice only if you expect nothing in return.
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    reg1981 said:

    I always buy one or two for fun. I always regret it...

    Same, grabbed 10 this time around. Got nothing close to 750k value from it. BUT a friend pulled account wide Triceratops on his 3rd box.

    1 of my boxes matches a screen shot posted above by someone else, 4 alendrites (40k RP) for 75k AD XD

    Why am I not upset, because my expectations were on point. The results I got, were the results I expected. It's a gamble that can not be edged in your favor. Roll the dice only if you expect nothing in return.

    that was my picture the 4 alexandrites. I am not salty about it per se, but I am salty on it in general. that is a huge flaw with the new packs and it makes the old packs always superior. it needs to be fixed imo.
  • regenerde
    regenerde Member Posts: 2,993 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    Well, just imagine for a moment they would have put some work into the Astral Lockbox and used an improved loot table based on the Glorious Resurgence Lockbox instead...

    I mean, let's be honest here, even with a change like that the stuff you would get from it regularly would still equal losing AD, but it wouldn't feel like a complete rip off like it does right now, you would at least get something decent to use or trade from it.

    I also opened over 100 Redeemd Lockboxes during the King of Spines "gold rush" and beside one mythic mount i mostly got my inventory flooded with RP HAMSTER. I've the Wanderer's Fortune mount insignia and 2x Rank 13 Quartermaster enchantments most of the time active/slotted, made over 1m RP from opening Spoils of War and Abandoned Gear bags during this 2x Refinement Points event, so i think it should be clear that i (and probably many others) have no use for more RP HAMSTER from any normal or the Astral lockboxes.

    Anyway, i bought 10 or more of them during their first introduction into the game, got nothing good from it, not going to repeat that mistake, i might bank a few for now and trade them later, but that's as far as i'm willing to go with them. I thought they were brought into the game for the purpose of draining AD from it - but i don't see that happening in their current form.
    Post edited by regenerde on
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  • deanski07
    deanski07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 74 Arc User
    I too must say that after spending Millions of AD on the Astral boxes they just do not seem worth it, and in fact I feel that they will have the residual effect of decreasing the AH worth of gems, which is all you seem to see with these boxes. I used to be delighted in getting a Brilliant diamond, now I feel they are like the new Black Opal, and already they are worth much less than they used to be , therefore again decreasing the worth of the items you get from these Astral (astral consuming) boxes.
  • tchefi#6735
    tchefi#6735 Member Posts: 359 Arc User
    deanski07 said:

    I too must say that after spending Millions of AD on the Astral boxes they just do not seem worth it, and in fact I feel that they will have the residual effect of decreasing the AH worth of gems, which is all you seem to see with these boxes. I used to be delighted in getting a Brilliant diamond, now I feel they are like the new Black Opal, and already they are worth much less than they used to be

    I agree about the worth of Astral Box, it is what it is : a lotery with a small consolation prize if you don't win the biggest ones.

    But the effect of astral boxes is marginal on the gem prices, the "Gem Crash" that has also collapsed the gems+1 crafting business (one of the rare crafting activity that was still quite profitable) is really driven by other biggest factors.

    Easy crushing manes with the car no matter your toon power and intensive farming of favors server wide (both activities with wanderer's fortune / quartermaster sloted) + consequent quantity of avernus treasure maps (gems inside the chest) + high rank gems looting frequently on Mog/Garyx (often black opals more rarely the 25k RP diamond) + higher frequency of x2 RP events (this year it's once every 2 months when it used to be more like once every 3 months in the past) + not many new things to spend huge quantity of RP since a while.

    This combination generated tons of gems-RP and reduced the feeling of RP needs, and the result is a gem market flooded with offers and no more really any demand. Prices (which were already on a slight general downhill in mod 17-18) were divided by 4 to 6 during the last 3 months, and the crash has yet to touch the rock bottom in my opinion. I can't remember any precedent of this scale, rapidity and duration on the whole gem market.
    The gems prices will probably stay very low as long as we are not done with all the redeemed citadel phases.


  • darthpotater
    darthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,162 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    Yeah, refinement is another thing that is causing problems. Everything gives refinement but only few things need refinement.
    Once you have artifacts and enchants maxed, you dont have anything to spend refinement, so is another market that is collapsing.

    Good for new players but the game needs more balance between the availability of currencies and the need of them.

    Here is an idea for devs: Introduce refinement in masterwork crafting tasks, when you rethink the system (it was in the roadmap if I remember well)
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