test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

The wizard class is waiting

2

Comments

  • quasar#2578 quasar Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    Pls Remove rimefire/smolder directed flame cooldown/internal cooldown
  • dimoyabun#8222 dimoyabun Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Asking questions is an opportunity for creativity and personal expression, both for the person asking and the person answering.
    I hope we can be heard one day.
  • monkey4201monkey4201 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    If there's not some sort of reply soon, I'm done with this game. There is literally zero incentive imo to grinding out bis gear, much less spending any more money on the game, if my main can't be even marginally competitive without standing in one spot & spamming encounter powers as fast as possible followed by 8+ seconds of ray of frost (which is horribly boring gameplay for an mmorpg btw). It's weird, the devs seem to have plenty of time to add more races, classes, & content, but none to address serious issues with an already existing class (except to occasionally nerf the class for whatever reasons). Even a simple message stating they are aware there's an issue would be something. As far as I'm concerned though, that lack of acknowledgement on the devs part means they do not believe there is a problem & will not be taking corrective measures. As a paying customer, it's frankly insulting to be ignored like that. I've got years worth of time & not an inconsequential amount of money in my cw, only to repeatedly have to invest more for consistently subpar performance in the one thing a cw is supposed to be able to do effectively? No thanks.
    Post edited by monkey4201 on
  • drago#9606 drago Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    @cwhitesidedev#9752

    I think a response here from one of your team would be both appreciated and appropriate. As a Product guy myself, the importance of acknowledging and responding to this kind of very constructive feedback should never be over-estimated (and since you get it through multiple channels, it's often going to need multiple responses). Many companies don't even have the level of engagement necessary to get this level of feedback.

    It looks as though you're starting to put the things in place needed to be more in tune with the community, and I appreciate it's something that takes time. But given you clearly have a programme of work around class balance, there could be a lot more transparency around exactly which classes/paragons you plan to re-balance next, so that you could more actively work with players to identify the weaknesses or imbalances (or if you've already collated lots of feedback, it could be published for players to help review before your team decides on what changes to make in response). Beyond this specific topic, I think it should underpin your entire approach to the roadmap (there are several ways to build on top of the CDPs that would benefit both the dev team and the player community).

    ---------

    On the topic of Wizards, since I do main one, I agree with much of what's stated in the original post. The Arcanist paragon has a very solid foundation, and could be even better with a few tweaks:

    1.) AOE: Some encounters need a bit of fine-tuning. Steal time is a good concept, but takes too long to cast and is too easily interrupted, for the damage it deals. Putting it on a scale might be interesting (e.g. a tap might do a bit of damage, but be cast quickly, whereas holding it for a longer time would increase the cast time and do a lot of damage). Lightening bolt is lacklustre, compared to other "in a line in front of you" encounters for other classes (e.g. Cleric javelin). Shard of avalanche could do with being replaced entirely, maybe by another lightening power.

    2.) Bosses: We all know the entire class rests on the Arcane Empowerment daily. I quite like how it works, but it does rely on being to generate AP quickly, which is not a particular strength of the Wizard (certainly not without storyteller journals). Maybe having a reduced AP gain while the daily is active, rather than disabling it completely, would help. You could go a lot further with the changes (a reserve of magic power, a bit like Cleric divinity), but I personally wouldn't deviate too far from how it currently works at this point.

    And then we come to Thaumaturge. Like Arcanist, the concept behind it is actually pretty good, but unlike Arcanist it isn't competitive in any situation right now:

    1.) DoT: The chill/smoulder dynamic should be great, it just doesn't work well enough. I'd stick with that core concept, but it really does need a re-think on how to apply it effectively. Given Arcanist is a burst damage dealer (of sorts) in boss mode, I think it's good Thaum is focused on DoT. But only if it's effective and can keep up with other classes.

    2.) AOE: Encounters just don't hit hard enough. Cooldowns are too long compared to damage magnitude (and there is no way to influence that). Encounters like chill strike are hobbled if using it for AOE. Most players end up playing Arcanist for AOE now, typically using 2-3 single target powers to do so.

    3.) Bosses: If Thaum isn't going to have any burst damage capabilities then its DoT through a combo of chill and smoulder needs to be good. Really good. It also gives a good opportunity to have group buff/debuff mechanics applied, as with classes like the Ranger (which I know has been the case in the past, whether by accident or design).

    ---------

    As an aside, I've seen it mentioned a number of times that Rogue is seen by your team as being a good baseline for DPS, which seems reasonable given it deals good and consistent damage across AOE and bosses. It got me wondering how you measure other classes in relation to that baseline? Are there particular metrics used / tests run to understand how classes perform relative to each other? I only ask because I think it would be interesting for players to know more about how you define and measure class balance.
  • bifflincultebifflinculte Member Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    @Drago
    I'm agree with almost everything you've written.

    The arcanist has solid base design, although aoe spells need redesign. Another lightning encounter instead of an arcane encounter is necessary, but i think imprisonment should be replaced by an hybrid st/aoe lightning spell. And yes, in boss fights, arcanists rely too much on Arcane Empowerment.

    The thauamturge need deeper overhaul. I think that almost all class feature and feats should be replaced. The only good feat to save is shatter strike.
    Moreover replacing 1 cold encounter by a fire encounter would give access to 3 cold and fire encounters and hence make possible cold/fire alternation build, like ranger's trapper build. Fire spells are absent from boss build. Ftf is terrible. But most important, the smolder/rimefire mechanics are completely underexploited and should be major source of dps in a specific build.

    The Arcanist is a fast but random damage dealer and should remain so. The thaumaturge should be a Diesel (damage gradually increases in battle) with very high dot dps. It's about time to forget the Master of Flame and to make a powerful and fun Thaumaturge !

    Now i feel like shouting in the desert. I started this thread about a month ago, and we didn't get any answer so far. Most of the content, especially other classes and new questline are very good. Though it seems the the wizard class has missed the train of mod 19.
  • onethree13#1845 onethree13 Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited September 2020


    It got me wondering how you measure other classes in relation to that baseline? Are there particular metrics used / tests run to understand how classes perform relative to each other? I only ask because I think it would be interesting for players to know more about how you define and measure class balance.

    This interests me too.

    But when to expect answers from developers is an even more interesting question...

    @nitocris83 or anyone else please take a note of this thread.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,060 Arc User
    What scares me is that they redesign thaumathurge (I hope changes in the core and Spellstorm aswell) and they give us the new product finished with only 1% margin of change. We need to talk about ideas / concepts, so a dev proposal before all the work would be nice.

    We can accept a respectfull talk, and if something cant be done (insert reason) or will be too powerfull no problem we can talk about reasons, the last word is from develpers / designers, but is much better if we can discuss the redesign before everything is done and we can only accept it.

    If you work with the community it will be satisfaction for everyone.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
  • bifflincultebifflinculte Member Posts: 137 Arc User

    We can accept a respectfull talk, and if something cant be done (insert reason) or will be too powerfull no problem we can talk about reasons, the last word is from develpers / designers, but is much better if we can discuss the redesign before everything is done and we can only accept it.

    For now there is no dialogue at all. I wonder if the class section was the right place to post this thread. It seems it's only for players (guides, builds, advices) and devs never go there. I should have put it in the feedback section.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,255 Arc User

    Anyway, Oppressive Force is the only aoe daily worth using, not because of insane magnitude but because it ticks 5 times and hence procs extra dps (especially Storm Spell).
    Only newbies uses Singularity because it's fun to see. Immolation is rarely used by thaumas. Has a wizard ever slotted Maelstrom of Chaos or Ice Storm ?

    Wizard should have a benefit from using a daily from a specific type of magic. Except for arcane and only for the arcanist (a Step Above Mastery feat), the wizard class lacks of synergy between spells of a same element.

    You want Maelstrom when you Solo CODG or Valindra.

    You want Arcane Singularity in BHEs sometimes.

    Immolation should be used all the time in AoE content by Thaums.

    Ice Storm is good for when you can't kill mobs instantly, and if you are playing any "Protect the blabla" mission, like in Tiamat.

    You can still utilize most of those spells properly, but you're better off just using OF for AoE.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to a heavy Damage Control
  • bifflincultebifflinculte Member Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    Today's patch notes:
    "Wizard: Thaumaturge: Critical Conflagration can no longer incorrectly cause a Smolder effect to override Rimefire Smolder."


  • bifflincultebifflinculte Member Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    Halaster is also mad, but at least he has dps !

    At least, we know someone worked on smolder.

    Anyway smolder is still bugged, Rimefire Weaving still grants 15% buff. And Rimefire stacks with smolder after using Furious Immolation.

    Smolder has always been a mess, it looks like this will never change.
    Post edited by bifflinculte on
  • bifflincultebifflinculte Member Posts: 137 Arc User
    There were some interesting proposals for wizard class in chat on yesterday's dev twitch talk (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/776559347):
    1) Delete the class. Seen many times.
    2) Make wizard an artifact instead of a whole class. I love this idea, because it exactly fits with present arcanist boss build. Someone use the wizard artifact, poof, a random wizard spawns for 10 sec and helps the guy.
  • bifflincultebifflinculte Member Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    Maybe things are going faster than we imagine. The artifact weapons boost 1 of the 6 at-wills. When you check the artifact power, 2 of these are odd. Storm Pillar is renamed "lighning bolt" and has a new green flame icon, and Scorching Burst has the Chill Cloud Icon.
    It can't be a coincidence, something's going on with these 2 at-wills. Wait and see ! Hopefuly not too long.


    Post edited by bifflinculte on
  • modlesiemodlesie Member Posts: 147 Arc User

    There were some interesting proposals for wizard class in chat on yesterday's dev twitch talk (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/776559347):
    1) Delete the class. Seen many times.
    2) Make wizard an artifact instead of a whole class. I love this idea, because it exactly fits with present arcanist boss build. Someone use the wizard artifact, poof, a random wizard spawns for 10 sec and helps the guy.

    Good idea- and unbound everything so i can move all my items on some other class =)
  • azric#8402 azric Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    > @modlesie said:
    > (Quote)
    > Good idea- and unbound everything so i can move all my items on some other class

    I think doing this will shatter any confidence that we have left. If they can just s-h-i-t can any class that is inconvenient to develop properly. There are a ton of good workable ideas on these forums and other games that can satisfy their customers. The fact that is being discussed should p-i-s-s any one of any class off. Here's why, if they are allowed to just drop a class and leave a good chunk of people with out their favored class they won't just do it to the wizard. Imagine for a moment if the mess up balancing the range or rogue and they end up in the same position as the wizard? Bye bye Rouge or ranger. This is not what we pay cryptic for. It's not what I pay them for. In any other form of payment for services rendered they would have been out of business years ago. Anyone who mains a wizard should be completely out raged and everyone else should be weary. Or are we in the habit of paying companies to not give us what we want, and to take away choices? If anyone is then go get married at least that has a return on investment.
    Don't confuse skill with a little luck you daft fool
  • bifflincultebifflinculte Member Posts: 137 Arc User
    edited February 13
    Shard of Avalanche has been replaced by a new encounter on preview. Arcane tempest is an aoe spell very similar to Fireball. 10' radius, 300 magnitude, 12-13 sec cd and instant cast. Kockdown effect. For each foe hit, you gain an arcane stack. On mastery, spell is centered on caster and the damage increased by 10%.

    I guess no one will miss Avalanche...

    With the cd reduction of some encounters and magnitude reevaluations, it seems that wizard modications are coming drop by drop. Hopefuly more is coming. Especially overhauls of feats, class features and of course of smolder mechanic.
    Post edited by bifflinculte on
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited February 12

    Shard of Avalanche has been replaced by a new encounter on preview. Arcane tempest is an aoe spell very similar to Fireball. 10' radius, 300 magnitude, 12-13 sec cd and instant cast.

    With the cd reduction of some encounters and magnitude reevaluations, it seems that wizard modications are coming drop by drop. Hopefuly more is coming. Especially overhauls of feats, class features and of course of smolder mechanic.

    Will Arcane Tempest be considered as "Lightning Damage", and thus affected by Iced Lightning boon?

    Just tested it. Appears to be non-lightning. It is nice for AoE builds and does knockdown. The 10' radius does not make it a huge damage maker, but it is better than having 2 single target skills in an AoE build, and better than using lightning strike... which is ridiculously slow to activate. (note: on mastery.. the 10' radius is around the caster instead of ranged to 80 feet)

    Conclusion: if unchanged, Arcane Tempest will add around 1% damage to Arcanist builds overall, which isn't much, but at least the skill will get used for AoE builds. Shard of the Endless Avalanche, which it is replacing, was never ever used, so this is a big win for Wizards. It would be bigger if the radius increased from 10 feet to 15 feet. On a counter-note, the Lightning Bolt encounter skill seems very weak now. This might be improvable by increasing the power of the 'Iced Lightning' boon from 10% boost to 20% boost. As far as I know, this boon is useless as it is, and all of the lightning sources represent small damages. 20% Iced Lighting might be enough for Arcanists to consider using Lightning Bolt.
    Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
  • erevel09erevel09 Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    Lightning Bolt is not really working most of the time, even if terrain is even. In my opinion, it should be replaced by Chain Lightning - basically effect of lightning enchantment; cast on one target then jump to the others, but higher magnitude and 100% chance to jump between targets (maybe add extra targets hit for spell mastery OR increase magnitude if only one target is hit). That would work way better.

    It's nice to see some changes made for wizards!
  • gildriadorgildriador Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    Thanks for the info, I download the new preview patch, and I will try this...
    “He raised his staff. There was a roll of thunder. The sunlight was blotted out from the eastern windows; the whole hall became suddenly dark as night. The fire faded to sullen embers. Only Gandalf could be seen, standing white and tall before the blackened hearth.”
    ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
  • gildriadorgildriador Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    Additional info:

    Arcane Tempest adds a stack of Arcane Mastery for each target you hit.
    I tested it and with the feat "A step above mastery" with one cast you can have 10 stacks of Arcane mastery instantly if you hit 10 enemies.

    I will do more test, but currently, the thing I don't like it's the small AoE of 10 feet.
    “He raised his staff. There was a roll of thunder. The sunlight was blotted out from the eastern windows; the whole hall became suddenly dark as night. The fire faded to sullen embers. Only Gandalf could be seen, standing white and tall before the blackened hearth.”
    ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
  • erevel09erevel09 Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    I think it's meant to be small AoE with knockdown effect. Shard had small AoE as well when exploded, but number of targets for sure could be more than 10. I think the radius could be increased to 15 feet, 20 seems too much. Especially if considered that wizards tent to be surrounded by enemies either way. So combo of Icy Terrain, Steal Time and Arcane Tempest could actually be decent setup. Definitely an improvement in AoE situations.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited February 18
    Arcane Tempest needs to be 15 foot radius on mastery, because the standard ranged version at 10 ft is better than the 10 ft self-centric mastery version. This encounter deals about 3% of total damage in missions, so it's barely effective.
  • xanderleopard2#4636 xanderleopard2 Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    even icy terrain has 15 radius. arcane tempest radius is terrible imo
  • pzg33#7278 pzg33 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    would love if lightening bolt was actually a bolt. spell mastery slot could make it chain. what it is now sucks tbh.
  • pzg33#7278 pzg33 Member Posts: 8 Arc User

    Lightning bolt is definitely a bad spell. Bad magnitude, bad aiming system and often doesn't deal any damage.

    agree. and would be 100% better/cooler if it was a classic bolt type spell.

  • demenoss#9306 demenoss Member Posts: 143 Arc User

    Lightning bolt is definitely a bad spell. Bad magnitude, bad aiming system and often doesn't deal any damage.

    Agreed. Lightning Bolt and Fireball have always done the same damage in D&D, so why not here?? Not to mention the range is basically the same. The one we use in game could be renamed: "Massive Spark" :)
    Guild: Noble Misfits
    Silky Pan'teeze: Drow Wizard --- Madres de Nasae: Half-elf Rouge
    Kepler: Human Paladin --- Demenoss: Dragonborn Barbarian
    Divine Pan'teeze: Drow Cleric --- Nikki Sharparrow: Human Ranger
Sign In or Register to comment.