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AD-->ZEN exchange queue time (Limit listings)

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  • kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 653 Arc User
    People who use the ZAX to increase their AD supply do not add to the the AD inflation problem. The AD they gain they get comes from AD that other players have already earned, and includes the automatic 10% AD sink for the auction house cut.
  • mayorofartamayorofarta Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    kharkov58 said:

    People who use the ZAX to increase their AD supply do not add to the the AD inflation problem. The AD they gain they get comes from AD that other players have already earned, and includes the automatic 10% AD sink for the auction house cut.

    You're right, it just fattens up the whales. Wouldn't it be better if this behavior is hindered though, while reducing queue times for everyone?

    In addition, if most players wait for their zen to purchase instead of paying double AH prices, wouldn't that drain AD faster. Is 10% auction cut enough to counter the purchases that never happened?
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,699 Arc User
    Would it hinder? Would it reduce queue times? If it is that much of an issue for you, sidestep the zax and buy zen direct.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • mayorofartamayorofarta Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    Greywynd, your contribution to this discussion is amazing. Positive changes will happen by themselves, magically. If it was MY issue, I wouldn't even bothering posting. It seems having a constructive discussion here belongs to the realm of Sci-fi. I'll just continue farming Zariel with my BiS character, while waiting for my 25k Zen.
  • psychoticsatyrpsychoticsatyr Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    the real problem is this: nothing of value for AD. and more and more AD is coming in every day. The changes coming are going to only make it worse. They have to give us some value for our AD. it used to be mounts, but now that they're (going to) drop from dungeons, no reason to buy any of them either. Changing the exchange rate to say 1000:1 will only cause inflation, just like when they changed it from 500:1 to 750:1. my proof of that is Coal wards. Coal wards are always 1000 zen (when not on sale / coupon) and they used to be 500,000 AD before the change and now are around 700,000. if they do lower the value of AD coal wards would drop to 900,000 or so.

    right now, there is 27,260,195,250 AD listed for sale at 750
    24,268,349 at 749
    13,396,680 at 748
    9,815,580 at 747

    They need to make something of value for AD. put a 5% chance of mythic mounts to drop from the astral box and bind it to account. that will eat up a bunch of AD.

    but until they make

    edit: amounts have changed since i wrote this.... the backlog has only gone up.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,699 Arc User

    Greywynd, your contribution to this discussion is amazing. Positive changes will happen by themselves, magically. If it was MY issue, I wouldn't even bothering posting. It seems having a constructive discussion here belongs to the realm of Sci-fi. I'll just continue farming Zariel with my BiS character, while waiting for my 25k Zen.

    What positive do you think you're seeing with this?
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    @mayorofarta you are suggesting putting a reduced limit on the transfer of AD into zen. Let's assume they cap all of you to 1000 or 2000 Zen per month maximum. Then the screaming starts... "That is barely enough to buy my VIP for the month!" etc.. Players rage quit and then we get to hear another all too common topic "This Game is Dead" etc..

    These tools have been placed in your hands. The idea is we have a lot of entitled players in this game, shouting at clouds, about how they deserve Zen for free now to buy.... what? VIP of course, so they can use those crutches, to support their method of not playing the game at all. I am not saying all VIP members are lazy but the vast majority of ALL players are extremely lazy about game play.

    How lazy are they?
    Glad you asked. I was in Omu looking for the BHE and had quite a few talismans on my character. I asked if anyone was working at starting up the Lich BHE? I commented there was 3 out of 9 shrines empowered. After I suggested this, I was told to do nothing and just wait for Tyrant by two players and another player actually started helping me light the shrines. At the highest point we had 6 out of 9 empowered and yet we got nothing but grief in chat from the others. I expressed, "At least I was trying to DO something.". After I ran dry, a player said I was being "self important". This is what I get for trying to help others? Standing around waiting for something to happen is just so sad. This type of behavior speaks volumes when you don't play the game and it is made worse when you ridicule others for helping you.

    Moral of this story, if you want something right away, put in the effort or wait in line.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • mayorofartamayorofarta Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I suggest a limit on the simultaneous listings for zen. You can't have a total listing for more than 10k for instance. When the listing clears (when you get your zen), you can put another. You get your zen anyway but in smaller batches. So, as it is now, if getting 20k in 2 months over getting them in batches of 10k per month bothers anyone? This benefits those who ask for less zen over those who now ask for 25k and everyone gets zen faster.

    And again, I just offer an alternative here. Instead of discussing why this is a bad idea or a good idea and the reasons why, you either turn this against me or speak off-topic telling stories or other ways to fix backlog. Only 1-2 posts have been on topic. The rest were "shut up and wait or pay". Sharing ideas here seems to be bad for health.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,155 Arc User
    edited September 2020

    Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I suggest a limit on the simultaneous listings for zen. You can't have a total listing for more than 10k for instance. When the listing clears (when you get your zen), you can put another. You get your zen anyway but in smaller batches. So, as it is now, if getting 20k in 2 months over getting them in batches of 10k per month bothers anyone? This benefits those who ask for less zen over those who now ask for 25k and everyone gets zen faster.

    And again, I just offer an alternative here. Instead of discussing why this is a bad idea or a good idea and the reasons why, you either turn this against me or speak off-topic telling stories or other ways to fix backlog. Only 1-2 posts have been on topic. The rest were "shut up and wait or pay". Sharing ideas here seems to be bad for health.

    I tried not to talk about back log or how long it would take but you brought it back. My 25K for a year example is based on potential 6 month back log that I experienced in the past. Limiting me to 10K means I will not able to get 25K for next year.
    i.e. I prefer to wait 6 months for 25K instead of the potential of 6 months for 10K and then 6 month for another 10K which is still not reach 25K which may or may not even cover 1 year VIP + the legendary mount pack.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • xenocide#6119 xenocide Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    > @aradyn#0871 said:
    > (Quote)
    > If listings get limited, people/bots just make more and more accounts. While I have no need for it, I have come across several players that have by-passed the 25k mark by using 2-3 accounts and transferring items around for a 75k cap. These bots also get used in lower dungeons to farm AD (and usually ruin the leveling dungeons for real players). I definitely don't want a system that encourages more bots/excess accounts.

    Isn't it against the TOS to have multi accounts for this reason?
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,699 Arc User


    Isn't it against the TOS to have multi accounts for this reason?

    Whether or not having multiple accounts is against ToS depends on how you abuse them.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    greywynd said:


    Isn't it against the TOS to have multi accounts for this reason?

    Whether or not having multiple accounts is against ToS depends on how you abuse them.
    I have one account, my husband has another. Recently we held LAN party here at my house with some guild members, I really don't know if they detect the IP we sign on with each time or not, really don't care either. My point being, the issue is not an issue, if you are not being abusive. Unless they want to start a new account registration system, akin to Facebook and verify us with our cellphones, multiple accounts per household will continue to exist.

    @mayorofarta I do apologize for my rants. Since I began playing Neverwinter, I always knew the game was managed poorly. Sharing ideas are a wonderful thing, never stop sharing, but never assume everyone will agree with your ideas. Forums were the first malls of Rome where people shopped and often someone would stand upon a platform and express their ideas to change. However if they expressed their opinion and it was out of favor with the government, they ended up being fed to the lions.

    Have fun <3
    wb-cenders.gif
  • mullymoomoo#7130 mullymoomoo Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    Limiting the number of listing each player can make, or the total amount of AD-ZEN you can order will not speed up the queue. the reason it is taking 50days minimum for listings to go through is that there are not enough people wanting to change zen into AD, because (a) there is little of value to buy for AD in game, (b) you can farm plenty of AD already. each account can get 100k AD each day plus get 10k from the redeemed shop, (c) most items now drop as dungeon rewards, even if only a 1% chance.

    having a lot of listings on the zen exchange is NOT an issue. the issue is how long it takes to complete a conversion. if people were selling zen for AD regularly then the wait time to convert ad to zen would not take as long as it does now. if there wasnt as much AD in the game then more people would swap zen for AD. if the best items could be bought for AD then people would swap zen for AD more often.

    but right now zen is worth more than AD to players, so most people hold on to ZEN and hardly anyone changes zen to AD, so you get a long wait to get your conversion completed. having 35 billion AD listed for exchange is NOT an issue. the fact that hardly anyone wants to swap zen for AD is the issue.

    and it will probably only get worse as we get closer to a potential black friday sale.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,026 Arc User
    I used to trade a Zen for AD regularly up until about year ago. There were some thing you could only get with AD like lego mounts, and certain refining stones and few other things like SH vouchers.

    Thing is, now I have bought the three lego mount pack and hit the mythic mount so for the most part my toons are covered as far as mounts go. You can also now get stones in the TB dealer. Add on top of that you can get AD fairly easy if you are willing to put in the time I don't need to exchange any more.

    That being said, I have stopped buying SH vouchers in the AH because the prices are nuts esp for influence but as I can get that for free (it just takes a long time) I am content to do that. If the prices of SH vouchers come down again I might use the exchange again but only then.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,699 Arc User
    And yet people seem to keep thinking there's a magic fix that Cryptic can employ to "fix" the exchange. Only players with zen willing to part with it for AD can "fix" it.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,012 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Well, they could start with getting their HAMSTER together when it comes to ZEN Charge Promotions, no magic required for that. Just have a closer look at the last promo - less attractive rewards, but the same problems like all the other promotions before.

    Missing or plain wrong information displayed at the start of the promo, some ZEN purchases not counting for it, missing rewards in game and so on. I mean, no offense, but they do want players to spend more money here, right? So, shouldn't someone in the company start with actually checking why those promos have these problems and do something about it?

    And when they have time to improve the Tarmalune Trade Bars store, you can't really tell me that they can't find some time for improving the Wondrous Bazaar as well, if they want to... again, no magic required for that too.

    Not to mention the non existing support, when it comes to problems with items bought from the ZEN shop. Something they could also fix, if they want to, and that wouldn't require any magic either.
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,556 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    greywynd said:

    And yet people seem to keep thinking there's a magic fix that Cryptic can employ to "fix" the exchange. Only players with zen willing to part with it for AD can "fix" it.

    There are a lot of ways to 'fix' it, and you don't need magic for it.

    From simple:

    That legendary mount pack? Put it in the WB for a limited time.
    Insignia choice pack? Same.
    And so on..
    More unbound stuff from dungeons.
    That AD lockbox only failed due to bad cost / value ratio. Simply better ratio, or better ratio at the exchange of bind status can solve it.

    To controversial and some not practical, but will do the job in terms of backlog:

    Halve the refine limit.
    Flood the market with p.wards (e.g. by adding them to lockboxes)
    Limit further the number of listings (like the OP suggests - and while I don't agree to the idea it will reduce the backlog)
    Announce upfront that there will be no sale on black Friday, and instead it will be zen charge rewards.

    Hell, if they wanted a magic solution, they can just snap their fingers, say Hocus Pocus and delete the backlog by fulfilling the orders (really bad idea). Or resetting the ZAX queue (was done before)

    While some are less practical, there is plenty what can be done, and a combination of several solution, which limit AD inflation, adding AD related chase items, encouraging ZEN purchase, and so on.

    At the end, there are players who get ZEN, per the Devs, the game's income is fine. The encourage to translate to AD instead of Shop items is up to Cryptic and no one else. And they are payed to find the solution if needed.

    The question though, is it really urgent, necessary, at the top of the company interests, and should they invest the resources and focus to 'fix' this? Probably, and as we see it, the answer is not. Especially when the backlog encourages players to open their wallet on limited time Zen shop items.

  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,699 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:


    There are a lot of ways to 'fix' it, and you don't need magic for it.

    Making worthy AD sinks should be a priority, but I doubt that things like reducing our refining limit would do much more than HAMSTER off more players.

    The ZAX is player-to-player. Beyond the fact that Cryptic put it in the game they don't really mess with it.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,556 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Every of their decisions to release an item, to make a pack, the loot tables and so on, all strongly influence the ZAX. NW is not open economy, it is strictly controlled. There are plenty of HAMSTER to turn that will influence AD supply and demand, and ZEN supply and demand, and with those the ZAX ratio.

    One doesn't really change how the stock market works, but every decision influence the stock prices. Same in this case, as I see it, we are more interested in the value of AD and ZEN and not the actual trade mechanism of the ZAX which works like it should.

    The previous examples were for example only, some practical others not. I'm sure there are plenty viable ideas.

    Edit: lol, why it hamster-ed off "a rounded button for adjusting or controlling a machine." k**b
  • aradyn#0871 aradyn Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    That AD lockbox only failed due to bad cost / value ratio. Simply better ratio, or better ratio at the exchange of bind status can solve it.

    I was shocked they didn't follow on with the Vallenhas Bags in Avernus. Could you imagine if the Celestial wings were in an AD box sink. Do 10x heroics for currency & 20k AD for a box type scenario (I know, people will rage for me stating that I think that would have been a good thing)... but it would make AD disappear & Zen value fall.
    micky1p00 said:

    Hell, if they wanted a magic solution, they can just snap their fingers, say Hocus Pocus and delete the backlog by fulfilling the orders (really bad idea)

    Not 100% convinced they don't actually do this already. There are times when I've had myself & guildies orders come through at the same exact time, almost like $10k USD in Zen just got converted instantly. Can't see a player doing that. I think they do it in limited supply to keep the ZAX where they want it though.
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    The question though, is it really urgent, necessary, at the top of the company interests, and should they invest the resources and focus to 'fix' this? Probably, and as we see it, the answer is not. Especially when the backlog encourages players to open their wallet on limited time Zen shop items.

    I think thats the only answer to this topic. It works fine for the business to not impact this too heavily imo.
    Especially if I look at how the recent sales work - to put the Mount Bundle (for that price, lol) in after people had enough time to buy upgrading tokens and collars with their stocked Zen, or how to get rid of stocked Zen through things like hiding a race behind the event "buyoutbutnotgrindbuyout" that seemed pretty mandatory for many people.
    There is also the miscalculations that happen if it takes 50+ days, there are many people that buy VIP each month/no more than 3 months at once and wait until the next listing got through.
    - bye bye -
  • crusthelvetecrusthelvete Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    I made a listing 27th july, havent got my zen yet :)
  • xenocide#6119 xenocide Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    July 27th?

    Weird, my listings posted on September 2nd for 750ad/ea just went through yesterday

    Edit, my.mistake, the listing was August 2nd, not September. Numbers are hard lol
    Post edited by xenocide#6119 on
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,155 Arc User

    July 27th?



    Weird, my listings posted on September 2nd for 750ad/ea just went through yesterday

    If we are in the same platform (PC), I don't know how this Zax work anymore. I sure have listing posted earlier than Sep 2nd.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User

    July 27th?



    Weird, my listings posted on September 2nd for 750ad/ea just went through yesterday

    I have 3 requests posted on 8/23, that have not gone through (PC).
  • mayorofartamayorofarta Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    59 days... completed today... you get an idea
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,443 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    My oldest listing is from August 8th - still waiting for it.

    The problem with AD sinks is this:
    * If they find item X that is highly enough sough after to be an effective AD sink, it could just as well be sold in Zen store to provide income. I think mount collars is a good example of this.
    * Also, a long ZAX queue will push people towards buying Zen rather than converting, that also is a development Cryptic desires.

    Cryptic got a lot of motivation to NOT provide AD sinks.

    Their recent attempt to drain some AD with Astral lockboxes seems to be working though. ZAX queue is slowly falling.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    Somewhat Off Topic: But a guild member told me it took 47 days for 1200 zen to clear posted on the 7th of July. Doing the simple math, 59 days is about a 20% increase in wait since then. Assuming I am counting my days correctly, Mayorofarta posted his on August 5th and received them on October 2nd, @mentinmindmaker should have their Zen inside of 3 to 4 days.

    While I did buy some Astral Lockboxes for AD, I also don't post AD to the ZAX. I also don't open the boxes either, they are being put into the prize bank for the Halloween party. All of you are welcome to come out on the 21st and win a prize! <3
    wb-cenders.gif
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,155 Arc User
    Aug 7th posting finally got through on Oct 5th. Almost 2 months.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,443 Arc User
    August 8th posting got through on Oct 7th. 2 months indeed.
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