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AD-->ZEN exchange queue time (Limit listings)

mayorofartamayorofarta Member Posts: 56 Arc User
edited September 2020 in General Discussion (PC)
With months waiting for the exchange to take place, I was wondering why they don't limit each account listings to say 5k from 25k and they prefer to increase the ratio instead. Whales will never lose no matter the ratio.
Post edited by mayorofarta on
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Comments

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,618 Arc User
    5K means a lot of thing you cannot buy such as 6 month VIP.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • mayorofartamayorofarta Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    I believe reducing the amount of listing (if not 5k, maybe 10k) will offer improvements not only to the huge backlog but also the game's quality of life. People will be happier with faster transactions, whales will exploit the system less leading to lower prices of zen items in AH, purchases will can be done on time and even if you need more than 5k, doing 2x5k will be completed faster than the way it is now. I can only see major improvements and minor hindrances with this change.
    Help me see, why the company prefers to benefit whales with the current system. Is it more profitable to them this way? Maybe forcing new players purchasing zen?
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,497 Arc User
    Because if you want zen you can spend money to get it.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • mayorofartamayorofarta Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    So they don't want to bring balance, just each time the difference between zen price and AH price increases too much, they will boost the exchange ratio. I wouldn't argue with that, but you see, they added zen content that is blocked if you don't get zen in time. I'm questioning their manipulative tactics. I see this first time happening with this mod so obviously.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,618 Arc User
    edited September 2020

    So they don't want to bring balance, just each time the difference between zen price and AH price increases too much, they will boost the exchange ratio. I wouldn't argue with that, but you see, they added zen content that is blocked if you don't get zen in time. I'm questioning their manipulative tactics. I see this first time happening with this mod so obviously.

    When I started to play this game, it was at least 6 months wait. That has been my line since. Hence, I always keep a reserve fund for 'surprise' and plan for 'standard' purchase 1 year later. I can't control the condition. Hence, I adjust my planning.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    It's all supply and demand. I buy a lot of Zen but there is very little items I can't get using Zen so there is almost no need for me to exchange for AD. That being said, I am currently sitting on 10K Zen I'd like to exchange at the moment but due to the VIP AH fiasco most of the stuff I want to buy is now either not being listed or doubled or more in price. So until things settle down, I am sitting on my Zen.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 832 Arc User
    edited September 2020

    With months waiting for the exchange to take place, I was wondering why they don't limit each account listings to say 5k from 25k and they prefer to increase the ratio instead. Whales will never lose no matter the ratio.

    It's about profit motive. The main purpose of the Zax is to encourage players who can't or won't pay real $$ to stay in the game and keep the zones full for paying players, because an almost empty MMO is not fun even if you are a BiS 'whale' as you call it. And bottom line - what matters to Cryptic are the paying players.
  • tribbulatertribbulater Member Posts: 180 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Cryptic is a business and needs cash flow to stay in business. They have no obligation to provide free gaming unless it benefits their business bottom line. That's not an "evil cash grab", that's just running your business like a sensible business.

    The ZAX is not there to provide AD-grinders with ways to get anything they want without having to pay for it, in a short time frame. The ZAX is there so that anyone who needs AD and is willing to pay cash for Zen has a ready market to convert his $$ into AD any time he likes. Any other uses (wealth storage, or allowing AD-grinders access to cash shop purchases) is basically a gimme. Although they probably contribute to the health and player activity of the game as well, they aren't the primary goal.

    If you want to have the Zen to buy things when you need them, then grind your Zen and make your trades well in advance. Build up a store of Zen and then don't blow it all. There is far too much excess AD in the market so the only real 'fix' for the ZAX is to put some major AD sinks in the game and drain some of the extra AD out of circulation.

  • mayorofartamayorofarta Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    I don't ask for solutions on the exchange problem. I ask for solid argument on the limitation of listings without changing anything else.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,387 Arc User

    I don't ask for solutions on the exchange problem. I ask for solid argument on the limitation of listings without changing anything else.

    It is not obvious what effect limiting Zen queue length would have.

    * The queue wait time will be significantly shorter, which would means people would try to use the ZAX rather than
    purchasing Zen out of impatience. This could mean less income for Cryptic.
    * It will favor those with little money that only keeps 1-2 queue slots active anyways
    * It will certainly release a LOT of AD back into the economy which likely will push the AH prices up
    * Since it makes it harder for the big operators on the ZAX it is likely the number of items bought with Zen and reposted
    on AH will go down somewhat. That likely will increase AH prices. Note: This is what makes Zen shop items like wards
    generally available, without it game certainly would be pay-to-play.

    So I think this would lead to higher AH prices on Zen items and less income for Cryptic.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    I think we ALL had this conversation a week ago. It all boils down to;
    If you want Zen now, buy it for $10 and don't be a barnacle like me. If you don't mind the wait in line, trade AD with other players at 750 AD per Zen. I am told the wait is up to 50 days or more and Cryptic has no responsibility for the backlog. Raising or removing the cap makes people with Zen, AD rich and the grind to make Zen that much longer. For players who plan to buy Zen for cash, you should wait for a charge event, they will gift you other items for buying Zen. Charge events normally will occur around the November and December holidays.

    Free to Play is just as it says, you can play this game without spending a dime or any Zen at all. None of the content is locked behind a pay wall or level upgrade. Not using Zen at all is possible, just extremely longer play time. Almost everything matters is available for AD in the Auction House.

    Have fun! <3
    wb-cenders.gif
  • xvimn134xvimn134 Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    Let’s say 5k each post= 50 days wait
    If they make it 10k zen backlog will be doubled and in general your wait time will be 2x as long (100 days) doesn’t help

    Rip math
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,387 Arc User
    Cryptic certainly has a responsibility for the long queue, they are building and designing the game and have made it so that Zen is much more valuable than AD.

    There are some important items you need Zen for:
    * VIP
    * Character slots
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,618 Arc User
    edited September 2020

    Cryptic certainly has a responsibility for the long queue, they are building and designing the game and have made it so that Zen is much more valuable than AD.

    There are some important items you need Zen for:
    * VIP
    * Character slots

    Character slot is something you buy once per extra character. It is not something that requires you to pay on-going. It is also not something you need to replace every now and then. In addition, it is dirt cheap. The full price is $1.25 each. If one buys it in discount, it is less than $1 each.

    If one can't wait for the queue, one can use money to buy Zen and it is very affordable.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • mayorofartamayorofarta Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    If 2 months waiting time is ok with everyone, because they adjusted to the circumstances playing the "monopoly guy" increasing their wealth using a delayed system, sitting now on maxed AD accounts, I can't say much more on this. But is that the case with most? I just suggested a different way of suppresing this occurence with the exchange, that in my opinion serves the community and company better. Increasing the ratio is not affecting those who have a lot of zen now, it just makes them wealthier.
    Btw, if i don't take into account mount gear, my character is BiS... I don't say these for my sake.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,618 Arc User
    edited September 2020

    If 2 months waiting time is ok with everyone, because they adjusted to the circumstances playing the "monopoly guy" increasing their wealth using a delayed system, sitting now on maxed AD accounts, I can't say much more on this. But is that the case with most? I just suggested a different way of suppresing this occurence with the exchange, that in my opinion serves the community and company better. Increasing the ratio is not affecting those who have a lot of zen now, it just makes them wealthier.
    Btw, if i don't take into account mount gear, my character is BiS... I don't say these for my sake.

    I have a feeling that Cryptic thinks 2 months wait is not long enough. Instead of cutting AD supply and/or adding AD sink, they have increased refined AD supply (outside of the refinement cap) through Redeemed Citadel and upcoming dungeon reward change. AD has less and less value. I would ask: what can AD buy in the future? Why does anyone need to exchange Zen to AD?
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • mayorofartamayorofarta Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    So we convert to Zen to multiply our AD... AD to ZEN --> ZEN to items --> items to more AD --> repeat.
    How about they limit your ability to convert to zen (e.g. 1 listings per account/10k max per account). Isn't that the best AD sink you can imagine? Your AD multiplication through zen exchange is severly limited. Now if less items are posted by whales in AH and prices go up, isn't that going to sink even more AD? Ofc AD farmers will make multiple accounts to counter this, but I don't believe most will bother doing this, at least it won't be that easy anymore.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,387 Arc User
    edited September 2020

    So we convert to Zen to multiply our AD... AD to ZEN --> ZEN to items --> items to more AD --> repeat.

    Only some of us do. Mostly the veterans, people that have been in the game for a while.
    Doing this requires some wealth and knowledge that new people don't have.

    You could say that the traders are preying on the new, the knowledgeless and the impatient ones.

    But the thing is, the traders also provide a valuable service. Without the traders most Zen items would not be easily available on the AH for AD. People basically pay an inflated price for the convenience of not having to wait for Zen trades to get through, and not having to wait for Zen discount offers to come around.

    The option to do it the slow way is there for all. The information on how little you can pay if you do it the slow way also is easily accessible to all. People still choose to buy Zen items from AH at inflated prices.

    Actually, since many of the items from the Zen store are critical for game play, without the traders NW would be a lot closer to a pay-to-play game since the trading process is so slow that for many people the only option is to spend Zen. That would push the free-to-play gang out of the game.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    Cryptic is not responsible for the backlog and they are not responsible to reduce the backlog.


    Once again, the ZAX (zen/AD exchange) is a player to player exchange and both Cryptic Studios and PWE are not manipulating the market. All the players are in complete control of this system. They have supplied the means for players to trade AD for Zen. If they pulled the plug on the ZAX, your only method to convert Zen to AD would be the Auction House and the reverse would just be impossible.

    Everyone with Zen is hoarding it at present, waiting on the Black Friday Sales, waiting on Cyber Monday, waiting to see what they can buy with their Zen. Fewer players are converting Zen directly to AD, more players are posting AD to be sold for unavailable Zen, and most of you should know by now this is what causes the backlog.

    There is nothing in the Zen store I want or need to play this game. I have played without Zen, but as I have stated, early on in this game I used the ZAX to buy Zen for character slots and shared bank slots. If there was no ZAX, I would have resorted to spending my cash for Zen as I did for my Foundry usage on Star Trek Online back in the Summer of 2012. Once I started playing here on NW, I found there was no need for me to spend my funds other than to support this game. At this point, they could remove the ZAX and there would still be no need for me to spend cash as they have the AH as crystal based currency. That their mistake and it created a system for true Free Play model. They would have to change both the AH and the ZAX to convert this to a Pay to Play model.

    We had this conversation before and I grow tired of repeating myself.

    wb-cenders.gif
  • mayorofartamayorofarta Member Posts: 56 Arc User

    Cryptic is not responsible for the backlog and they are not responsible to reduce the backlog.


    If they pulled the plug on the ZAX, your only method to convert Zen to AD would be the Auction House and the reverse would just be impossible.

    more players are posting AD to be sold for unavailable Zen, and most of you should know by now this is what causes the backlog.

    First, who decides the amount of listings allowed per account.
    Second, who said anything about removing zax?
    Third, less/lower listings --> lower backlog.
    Last, stop derailing the conversation to different changes that could allow better AD sinks. This is about listings and listings only. (I should put that on the title)
  • fademist#5406 fademist Member Posts: 58 Arc User
    be glad they have that in the 1st place
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,994 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Well, as allways... all the Devs have to do is put some decently priced usefull stuff into the Wondrous Bazaar, with some special expensive stuff rotating through it on a weekly/monthly basis, that should drain enough AD out of the game to reduce the ZAX backlog at least a little bit.

    Uncommon and rare mount collars could find their way into the Wondrous Bazaar for example, the green ones for 100k AD and the blue ones for 200k AD, bound to account of course, taking some pressure of the ZAX and also giving players a more reliable way for upgrading their characters.

    Or expanding the range of offered uncommon and rare companions in the WB might also be an idea here... and while they're at it, they could also adjust the prices of those companions, so that players might actually think about buying them.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
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  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,542 Arc User
    edited September 2020

    Cryptic is not responsible for the backlog and they are not responsible to reduce the backlog.


    Once again, the ZAX (zen/AD exchange) is a player to player exchange and both Cryptic Studios and PWE are not manipulating the market. All the players are in complete control of this system. They have supplied the means for players to trade AD for Zen. If they pulled the plug on the ZAX, your only method to convert Zen to AD would be the Auction House and the reverse would just be impossible.
    Cryptic have 100% control of how and how many unbound items drop, how much AD generated via refinement, the availability and demand (by making items more sought after or less) of every single item in the game, the worth of lock-boxes and zen items, and so on.
    In short Cryptic have full and complete control of the game economy.

    The one and only one entity that is responsible for the game economy health is Cryptic. No one else.


    Everyone with Zen is hoarding it at present, waiting on the Black Friday Sales, waiting on Cyber Monday, waiting to see what they can buy with their Zen. Fewer players are converting Zen directly to AD, more players are posting AD to be sold for unavailable Zen, and most of you should know by now this is what causes the backlog.

    And who is responsible for the situation? The green fairy that decided that there are no items worth spending AD on, and prices drop by the hour? Is it the purple martian who sets ZEN store discounts so that players backlog in their anticipation? (though practicly, the blackfriday 30% discount is not really worth the time anymore)


    There is nothing in the Zen store I want or need to play this game. I have played without Zen, but as I have stated, early on in this game I used the ZAX to buy Zen for character slots and shared bank slots.

    Different players have different needs. Some want to play the group content and want to upgrade their chars, hence need wards, mounts. Want QoL upgrades like ViP to not waste time in a walking to the edge of the map simulator.
    Others do not care and only use the game for chit chat.


    At this point, they could remove the ZAX and there would still be no need for me to spend cash as they have the AH as crystal based currency. That their mistake and it created a system for true Free Play model. They would have to change both the AH and the ZAX to convert this to a Pay to Play model.

    Well, luckily (most of) everyone else, including the devs, PWE, the majority of the players and so on disagree.
  • aradyn#0871 aradyn Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    This topic comes up EVERY year when black friday is approaching or a good item/sale happens (such as the $150 mount pack up for sale right now). It becomes the, "I didn't put my AD into the ZAX in time" therefore I deserve an immediate change that helps me. There were weeks during this past year where the wait time was only 2 weeks, and very few complaints. There was also a massive wait leading up to last black friday, and many threads just like this.

    The solution has never been to increase the AD->Zen ratio (which just causes pres ward prices to be higher on the AH) or to limit the number of postings a player can make (as this just creates bot accounts). The only solution would be to BTA consumables from the Zen store (pres wards, and other items that get resold), however this reduces money cryptic makes and would also flood the economy with AD (something cryptic has been unable to manage). Many people with 5x listings back logged would just buy up sought after items on the auction house and inflate their price. Right now, the system works, if you plan ahead. As others stated, no zen item is mandatory, I would like a second mount pack, but my character can still play the game without it or without VIP.
  • mayorofartamayorofarta Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    I would really love to see people commenting on how limiting listings would be bad for anyone (excluding re-sellers), instead of random comments on backlog.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,618 Arc User
    edited September 2020

    I would really love to see people commenting on how limiting listings would be bad for anyone (excluding re-sellers), instead of random comments on backlog.

    What is the current limit? 25K? I always plan for the next year (12 months), spending 25K Zen a year later is not unreasonable although so far, I have not done that. I don't want to wait for a year and only get 5K/10K especially when it is not because of supply/demand.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • aradyn#0871 aradyn Member Posts: 91 Arc User
    edited September 2020

    I would really love to see people commenting on how limiting listings would be bad for anyone (excluding re-sellers), instead of random comments on backlog.

    If listings get limited, people/bots just make more and more accounts. While I have no need for it, I have come across several players that have by-passed the 25k mark by using 2-3 accounts and transferring items around for a 75k cap. These bots also get used in lower dungeons to farm AD (and usually ruin the leveling dungeons for real players). I definitely don't want a system that encourages more bots/excess accounts.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited September 2020

    I would really love to see people commenting on how limiting listings would be bad for anyone (excluding re-sellers), instead of random comments on backlog.

    If listings get limited, people/bots just make more and more accounts. While I have no need for it, I have come across several players that have by-passed the 25k mark by using 2-3 accounts and transferring items around for a 75k cap. These bots also get used in lower dungeons to farm AD (and usually ruin the leveling dungeons for real players). I definitely don't want a system that encourages more bots/excess accounts.
    Detecting bots in dungeons with chests might have a quick & easy fix:

    Install a 1% chance to get a Captcha each time a chest is opened. If the player passes the 'im not a bot' captcha, they get an extra 5,000 AD for their inconvenience. If the player fails the captcha (maybe give them 2 tries with a time limit), then their account gets disabled until they contact support. Cryptic would just turn them back on, but would investigate the player activity afterword using a simple profiling checklist. If the account has high potential of being a bot... they could gather data and then ban the account.
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