test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Lvl 80 too easy to attain?

cracklepants#2252 cracklepants Member Posts: 61 Arc User
edited August 2020 in General Discussion (PC)
I was thinking how long it took to get to 60, then 70. I enjoyed running the content and was not a big fan of the 2x exp because it threw off my progression. When I built an alt, I made sure to get the signets. We had to earn 80 with the UM release. Now I see new folks bolting to 80 in a week or so. There are two concerns that I have with this:
  1. We have a lot of folks that have not had to learn mechanics and some of these that I have done trainings with were players that only had a month or two under their belt. Others get upset when you offer to help them learn.
  2. I have seen many new players complaining about not being able to get BiS just as quickly. Many expect R15s and leg mounts. We council our new guild members that we will help, but begging is not allowed. Have had to kick a couple for this.
We have a lot of great content and lore that is rushed past in the the race for 80, then complaints of not enough content. Rather than making it easier to get to 80 and end game shouldn't it be tougher? I am still here because I enjoyed Elemental Evil, Tyranny of Dragons, etc. If players have to earn it, wouldn't they appreciate it more? I know I do.




Post edited by cracklepants#2252 on

Comments

  • batailleusebatailleuse Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    well my brother started on a new account, we played together and took only 2 days to lvl 80,

    rushed UM as soon as we got it, then pushed to avernus, farmed map for 2h, and bam full 1250 items + weapon set minus belt/collar, with a guild boon we found later we are basically lvl80 21k in 48h. i do agree that its a bit ridiculously fast
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    level means nothing it's Item level that has meaning and it does not take 2 days to get to max IL. 80 is end of the tutorial
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    I see a great deal of players who are level 80 asking (begging) for a guild to join. I can tell they are very new level 80 from peeking at the gear they are wearing. Others are level 80 asking how to get their item level up to 20K or higher. Talking to them in chat, they didn't level up with campaigns, or they would know what boons are and how to get them. It is so obvious they dungeon leveled up to 70, and ran to either Undermountain or Barovia to get the free gear. Then they finished the last 10 levels without replacing the gear especially the blue artifacts.

    The way the game plays out now, with A.I. campaign at level 15, Cryptic will be able to toss out Ebon Downs, Vellosk, Pirates' Skyhold, Icespire Peak, The Chasm, Rothé Valley, Mount Hotenow, and Whispering Caverns. I know some of the zones have dragons, but they removed the dungeon from Ebon Downs so why not the black dragon as well? I keep returning to Ebon Downs to reflect on the fun that once it held, with sadness in my heart, that it will never again be the place it once was before. New players don't event notice and perhaps never will know they skipped over content they can't repeat at a higher level. I think it is very sad the old skirmishes are gone, maybe forever, or maybe they will remake them as an event for new level 80 players to purchase a buyout token so they don't have to play the content.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    It's not the leveling system, it's the player. The campaign zones are still populated by players committed to the slow grind. I see them every day - so they are out there. If you're looking for dedicated players, might make sense to look for recruits in the campaign zones - players with ILs just at or below the recommended level for that area. And maybe the 22K running around atomizing redcaps in Sharandar is a good sign too... maybe...
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    the leveling zones are really boring. I can see why people want to skip them and get straight into more modern content. they are a long boring grind imo. it looks like they aren't really adding more boons but they are adding more areas to get the boons. imo they should just cut a good portion of the game out or give some alternate reward for completing. Neverwinter has a very confusing path forward at this point and I think it probably turns off a lot of new players. what do I do now. which way to turn.. easy if you were there originally for it. but i can see how it would be really off putting if you were new.

    imo the most straightforward path is level with dungeons. do undermountain, do mes to get gear and then do one or two of the campaigns of your choice for boons and then continue on with new content. boons don't even really do that much for you. they help level out a few stats really that's it.

    imo there should be a curated path forward for new people. like the forest path giving you foresty type areas to complete, sharandar river dist skyhold etc and then ending with some sort of foresty reward. an epic stag or something and a title, the frosty path icewind dale vellosk and storm king thunder etc etc etc you get the idea. some curated path to 80 and some decent gear with a clear end goal. rn the levelling zones are kind of like a never ending sandbox that you could end up floating around in for eons with no clear path to end game.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    Is it fair to say the boons (all told) are the equivalent of a couple rank 15s and a feat?
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    Two and a half years ago....

    On my first character, a GWF, I 100 percented all content available in order, regardless of my level. It took me about 6 months playing 4 to 8 hours every day.

    I continued playing that character alone doing dungeons to generate AD for another 6 months (& spending $2000 by converting straight to AD. That character would currently be able to join RTQ barely, but would have negligible contribution.

    In the year and a half since then... I leveled 7 more characters to level 80, each one taking only a couple weeks. As soon as one gets everything BiS or close.. i start another.

    Personally, I would like to see the daily leveling EXP bonus go away for dungeon & RTQ completions, and see a little more retention of progress made over time. A year of hard core progression is too long to have most of that progress wiped out a year later, and characters should not be able to start from scratch and be playing the hardest game content a month later.
  • cracklepants#2252 cracklepants Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    I never viewed the leveling zones as boring and most of the long term players I know view old zones with nostalgia (AI not included.) To me end-game is all grind and wait. I have the gear, I know the mechanics. I don't know why people always say the game starts at 80. From 80 to end game, it is just a grind. Right now the most enjoyment I get is helping teach other players and talking with friends in the guild. Perhaps making boons an important consideration again would encourage people not to rush content.

    It reminds me of kids that want to be adults so bad that they miss out on their childhood.

    I was not big into the foundry, but if it was still around I am sure I would be now.
  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Member Posts: 693 Arc User
    This has been the subject of debate for a long time now, and not just in Neverwinter.

    There are some people that really want to enjoy the trip. They pride themselves on learning as they go; On each new area they unlock providing an all-new experience with all-new challenges.

    They appreciate the challenge of levelling.

    On the other hand, there are some people that just want to get to the main course. They have no interest in the journey, they want to get to where the action is and they'll figure out what they are doing soon enough, anyway.


    As games age, they more and more often move towards the latter.
    I guess they figure that the players that have been here skew heavily towards the higher levels and have seen all the lower level stuff already.

    So, if those existing players want to make an alt, they probably aren't that interested in a long levelling experience, and the new players need to be able to join the higher level players in what they are doing fairly quickly since that is where most people are.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,821 Arc User
    For veteran players who played for long time, they can make a level 80 in (say) 10 minutes. No money involves. No boon though.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,565 Arc User
    It took about 2 1/2 minutes. Shame the XP tomes stopped working at 70.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 835 Arc User
    From the roadmap published earlier this month:

    Fast Track to Epic-Level Content
    - Streamlined Leveling Experience
    - New Adventure System
    - Revised Tutorial Ramp
    - Better Reward Drops

    This is what the devs are working towards, in late 2021 (assuming they stay on target).

    The implication is that the devs see the value/enjoyment of the game to the player isn't in the leveling - as noted elsewhere, in this game achieving level 80 is not end game - it's the end of the tutorial.
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,418 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    The easiest way to fix this is to not allow you to start the undermountian campaign right away. Or any of the others either. Leveled to 80? Ok, time for elemental evil. I can't imagine anyone wanting a prerequisite type setup for campaigns. Would really suck for building alts when you want to do it your own way!

    I would however like to keep the rate to 80 similar to what it is, at the end of the day level 1-80 is the tutorial of this game.
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    I bet you that the reason it takes so little time to get to 80 is because 1 to 80 generates no money for cryptic. So they have an incentive to get the new players to 80 as soon as possible.

    If it took you a month to get to 80, then its that much longer before they start considering spending money.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,821 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    krumple01 said:

    I bet you that the reason it takes so little time to get to 80 is because 1 to 80 generates no money for cryptic. So they have an incentive to get the new players to 80 as soon as possible.

    If it took you a month to get to 80, then its that much longer before they start considering spending money.

    Actually, new player does not know spending money before 80 is not wise. There is no stop sign telling them not to unless somehow they consult someone, watch video or do some research themselves. Many spend money to go through the journey and then later, found out it was a waste. Time to time, people try to go through the process to obtain the elemental fire weapon.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User

    This has been the subject of debate for a long time now, and not just in Neverwinter.

    There are some people that really want to enjoy the trip. They pride themselves on learning as they go; On each new area they unlock providing an all-new experience with all-new challenges.

    They appreciate the challenge of levelling.

    On the other hand, there are some people that just want to get to the main course. They have no interest in the journey, they want to get to where the action is and they'll figure out what they are doing soon enough, anyway.


    As games age, they more and more often move towards the latter.
    I guess they figure that the players that have been here skew heavily towards the higher levels and have seen all the lower level stuff already.

    So, if those existing players want to make an alt, they probably aren't that interested in a long levelling experience, and the new players need to be able to join the higher level players in what they are doing fairly quickly since that is where most people are.

    One thing that could be done, is to make leveling take longer toward the campaigns end level 60-80. In turn they could give players an experience boost on all of their alts, based on the max progress in boons or accomplishments of their most experienced character. This way veterans can speed their alts through old content. New players could still accelerate their growth by spending money if they so desire.
  • xenocide#6119 xenocide Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    I would say from and end game bis player.

    Don't rush to end game, just play the game and have fun. Join a social guild, get to know your mates and have fun running dungeons with them.
    The most fun I had in the game was learning new dungeons and slowly getting stronger and stronger.

    I see so many players trying to rush and pay their way to bis in slot not realizing that the journey there is more rewarding than having rank 15 everything
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    krumple01 said:

    I bet you that the reason it takes so little time to get to 80 is because 1 to 80 generates no money for cryptic. So they have an incentive to get the new players to 80 as soon as possible.

    If it took you a month to get to 80, then its that much longer before they start considering spending money.

    Well you hit the nail on the head there, the advertisements for Neverwinter feature the newest content. New players, with new money, pop online and want the new content right away. Yes, I feel this is Cryptic catering to new whales. However they will probably spend less than the original crowd did, since they are in for the "quick fix" and be gone when the dust settles. The new episodic campaigns seem to be planned to keep them here between the down time. Foundry was doing that before they canned it. They were producing 3 campaigns a year and in the interim the Foundry UGC took up the slack. Now they plan to do 1 or 2 campaigns per year and run episodes to keep them entertained.

    I don't know if this new model will fun or not. I guess time will tell.

    wb-cenders.gif
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    I have 30 toons and about ten of them end game-ish ten more that are close to that. I end up creating new toons because I enjoy the levelling zones more then the post 70 content because I play it so much normally. I wish I could spend more time in the Blacklake District and all those early zones because it feels more like classic D&D to me. I really wish I could run the early zone dungeons more, I miss that so much but as DPS queues are a joke now. Plus since I am not running the levelling zones over and over it seems fresh even tho I have run it so many times lol

    I never go to UM any more until I am already level 80 because I can breeze through it if I am already 80 which makes it more fun to me.

    Aye, I know I am probably not the "core demographic" Cryptic wants but I am a whale so I guess they still got me even though I don't dance in the preferred method.

    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,637 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    .

  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited September 2020
    Regarding whether boons are worth chasing or not -

    Something like a rank 15 Black Ice offers 2880 stat points 1/2 in power, 1/2 divvied between two other stats.

    The boons give the equivalent of 5 of those rank 15 enchantments, in addition to another 4500 points that can be put into other stats, and a master boon that's essentially an artifact set bonus or feat, I guess.

    So on console, the points given by boons might be worth upwards of 5 million AD or 6,700 Zen or 65 bucks.
Sign In or Register to comment.