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Redeemed Citadel Is Not P2W - Fact Checks

yopukoyopuko Member Posts: 78 Arc User
Hello everyone!

As you can probably already guess by the title of this post, I went ahead and fact checked a lot of misinformation regarding the Redeemed Citadel in this post. By fact checking, I mean directly quoting things from Asterdahl - one of Cryptic's Devs, as well as our CM Julia (Nit0cris). Hopefully this will help put an end to the amount of misunderstandings going around the community regarding the Redeemed Citadel.

If you don't like reading, I also covered it all in a video that you can watch here.

I posted it on Reddit as well (looks cleaner, I struggled to figure out the forums here, sorry lol) - so if you want, you can check it out here.




What does the Reforger's Blessing Pack actually get you?
The Reforger's Pack unlocks the rewards on the bottom row shown within the Campaign Preview window. It also grants eventual access to the new Aasimar Race.


Is the Reforger's Blessing Pack a buyout for the event?

To echo what a few posters have already indicated as their interpretation, there is no buyout in this content. Even if you purchase the reforger's blessings, you must play the content. The reforger's blessing affords you the ability to play at your own pace.
- Asterdahl (August 14th, 2020)
Source.


Does buying the Reforger's Blessing Pack allow players to farm at their own pace?

If you're not sure you'll be able to complete the goals in time: a reforger's blessing will be available in the zen market that allows the bearer to earn personal progress at their own pace, even after a milestone ends.
- Asterdahl (August 14th, 2020)
Source.

It should be noted that Asterdahl also said this though;

It will be possible to purchase all items in the various stores that will become available in the citadel with Zariel's favor, even if you started playing the game after Module 20 launches and the campaign has ended.
The only purchases that will no longer be available in the store will be packs like the daily refined astral diamond bundles.
- Asterdahl (August 18th, 2020)
Source.

Which means that the free rewards can be farmed over a personal period of time because the rewards will be available even after the event episode has ended. So this luxury isn't necessarily exclusive to those who bought the pack.



Can you only get the weapons if you buy the blessings pack?

You can get them free even without the pack, but not until after the campaign;
With the Redeemed Citadel we are not selling best in slot equipment in the zen market. We will not be selling categories of items traditionally associated with playing through content such as armor and weapons.
- Asterdahl (August 14th, 2020)
Source.


Will the leaderboard reset after each Milestone?

Each milestone will have its own independent leaderboard. The leaderboard concludes when the milestone is complete, i.e. when the server progress reaches 100%, the top 100 players will be locked in and rewarded.
When milestone II begins, an entirely fresh leaderboard will begin for that milestone.
- Asterdahl (August 19th, 2020)
Source.


Is the R9 Vorpal for the Top 100 Players going to be better than the normal Vorpal?

This enchant will function identically to vorpal in every way aside from visual effects. Another alternate version of the vorpal enchantment will also be added to the zen market after the milestone is completed. The two will be identical other than visual effects.
- Asterdahl (August 14th, 2020)
Source.


Will completing Milestone 1 trigger Milestone 2 right away?

The next milestone will not begin until the previous one is completed. Release dates for next milestones are simply the earliest the next milestone can start. Once the previous milestone is completed, the next one will begin if it's after the release date.
Currently, the plan is to release the episodes on the following dates. Please note these dates are all subject to change.
Episode 2: September 15
Episode 3: October 13
Episode 4: November 10
- Julia / Nit0cris (August 19th, 2020)
Source.
Discord - Enyolius | IGN - Enyo @ Yopuko (NWPC)
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Comments

  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User
    yopuko said:

    Hello everyone!

    As you can probably already guess by the title of this post, I went ahead and fact checked a lot of misinformation regarding the Redeemed Citadel in this post. By fact checking, I mean directly quoting things from Asterdahl - one of Cryptic's Devs, as well as our CM Julia (Nit0cris). Hopefully this will help put an end to the amount of misunderstandings going around the community regarding the Redeemed Citadel.

    If you don't like reading, I also covered it all in a video that you can watch here.

    I posted it on Reddit as well (looks cleaner, I struggled to figure out the forums here, sorry lol) - so if you want, you can check it out here.




    What does the Reforger's Blessing Pack actually get you?
    The Reforger's Pack unlocks the rewards on the bottom row shown within the Campaign Preview window. It also grants eventual access to the new Aasimar Race.


    Is the Reforger's Blessing Pack a buyout for the event?

    To echo what a few posters have already indicated as their interpretation, there is no buyout in this content. Even if you purchase the reforger's blessings, you must play the content. The reforger's blessing affords you the ability to play at your own pace.
    - Asterdahl (August 14th, 2020)
    Source.


    Does buying the Reforger's Blessing Pack allow players to farm at their own pace?

    If you're not sure you'll be able to complete the goals in time: a reforger's blessing will be available in the zen market that allows the bearer to earn personal progress at their own pace, even after a milestone ends.
    - Asterdahl (August 14th, 2020)
    Source.

    It should be noted that Asterdahl also said this though;

    It will be possible to purchase all items in the various stores that will become available in the citadel with Zariel's favor, even if you started playing the game after Module 20 launches and the campaign has ended.
    The only purchases that will no longer be available in the store will be packs like the daily refined astral diamond bundles.
    - Asterdahl (August 18th, 2020)
    Source.

    Which means that the free rewards can be farmed over a personal period of time because the rewards will be available even after the event episode has ended. So this luxury isn't necessarily exclusive to those who bought the pack.



    Can you only get the weapons if you buy the blessings pack?

    You can get them free even without the pack, but not until after the campaign;
    With the Redeemed Citadel we are not selling best in slot equipment in the zen market. We will not be selling categories of items traditionally associated with playing through content such as armor and weapons.
    - Asterdahl (August 14th, 2020)
    Source.


    Will the leaderboard reset after each Milestone?

    Each milestone will have its own independent leaderboard. The leaderboard concludes when the milestone is complete, i.e. when the server progress reaches 100%, the top 100 players will be locked in and rewarded.
    When milestone II begins, an entirely fresh leaderboard will begin for that milestone.
    - Asterdahl (August 19th, 2020)
    Source.


    Is the R9 Vorpal for the Top 100 Players going to be better than the normal Vorpal?

    This enchant will function identically to vorpal in every way aside from visual effects. Another alternate version of the vorpal enchantment will also be added to the zen market after the milestone is completed. The two will be identical other than visual effects.
    - Asterdahl (August 14th, 2020)
    Source.


    Will completing Milestone 1 trigger Milestone 2 right away?

    The next milestone will not begin until the previous one is completed. Release dates for next milestones are simply the earliest the next milestone can start. Once the previous milestone is completed, the next one will begin if it's after the release date.
    Currently, the plan is to release the episodes on the following dates. Please note these dates are all subject to change.
    Episode 2: September 15
    Episode 3: October 13
    Episode 4: November 10
    - Julia / Nit0cris (August 19th, 2020)
    Source.
    For all of the Teal Deers: " Redeemed Citadel is not P2W because you can get half of the rewards without making a purchase."
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    For all of the Teal Deers: " Redeemed Citadel is not P2W because you can get half of the rewards without making a purchase."

    Well, none of the BiS items are free. Sure, the 100K AD packs are nice and the weapon is a nice upgrade for those who do not have Lionheart or Celestial weapons, but that's it.

    The BiS stuff all requires a purchase. For my build, that means one of the rings, the pants and possibly one or two of the companion items.

    Hoping for improvements...
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    To sum it all up:

    The bundle gives players early access to the event's items, AND full account access to the PREMIUM items.

    Otherwise, you can get the non-premium items for free during the event if you can keep up with it, and get any of the items after the event using event or campaign currency when the event gains either permanence or becomes a repeating event, however development decides to announce it's implementation at a later date.

    To me, it seems like an early access model experiment on how to release campaigns in the future to generate some cash, in lieu of pay to win or forced subscriptions.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,182 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    I consider this is not P2W but PnP2W. Pay and Play to win. You need to do both.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    It is an elegant compromise between development, players with high time - low money, and players with high money - low time.

    The event is not mandatory, the bundle is not mandatory. All you gain is early access to some convenient shiny toys that probably are not BiS. I know I'm buying the bundle. I've got 5 characters with all campaigns complete except for the last one, and only an hour a day to play until i can free up more time next year.

    It is unfortunate that the event was released with such poor documentation. There were a lot of players excited to buy the bundle who did not out of fear... caused by vague descriptions and missing information, who did not want to waste their money on something that might ultimately be useless to them.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited August 2020

    It is an elegant compromise between development, players with high time - low money, and players with high money - low time.

    The event is not mandatory, the bundle is not mandatory. All you gain is early access to some convenient shiny toys that probably are not BiS. I know I'm buying the bundle. I've got 5 characters with all campaigns complete except for the last one, and only an hour a day to play until i can free up more time next year.

    It is unfortunate that the event was released with such poor documentation. There were a lot of players excited to buy the bundle who did not out of fear... caused by vague descriptions and missing information, who did not want to waste their money on something that might ultimately be useless to them.

    actually no. if you don't pay you don't get the stuff. it's not early access. you don't get it if you don't buy it. then you grind for it too. you are required to spend both the time and the money to acquire the top tier items. and from everything I can tell aasimar will be bis.
  • hoveristhoverist Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    as far as I understand, it will be impossible to pass the race without paying? And the store for currency will only be available to those who bought the set.
  • hoveristhoverist Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    and one more thing I do not understand, what is the format of the event? can I buy a set, get a lot of grind, get rewards, and spend my currency on the same rewards that I've already been given?

    or I can not buy a set, grind a lot and not get most of the rewards? it's just that I already have over 28k of currency and the store for milestone 1 is unavailable. will I be able to buy something in that store after 100% completion of the server?
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,182 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    hoverist said:

    and one more thing I do not understand, what is the format of the event? can I buy a set, get a lot of grind, get rewards, and spend my currency on the same rewards that I've already been given?

    or I can not buy a set, grind a lot and not get most of the rewards? it's just that I already have over 28k of currency and the store for milestone 1 is unavailable. will I be able to buy something in that store after 100% completion of the server?

    If I interpret it correctly, the store for all 4 milestone is already available. You just may not qualify to buy stuff. Based on the stuff in the store "Yahael the trader", the weapon set is not available. Also, you will need to buy the Reforger's blessing to buy other items.

    "To reclaim this item, you must have completed and claimed this Forge's Blessing item from Milestone I".
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • hoveristhoverist Member Posts: 39 Arc User

    hoverist said:

    and one more thing I do not understand, what is the format of the event? can I buy a set, get a lot of grind, get rewards, and spend my currency on the same rewards that I've already been given?

    or I can not buy a set, grind a lot and not get most of the rewards? it's just that I already have over 28k of currency and the store for milestone 1 is unavailable. will I be able to buy something in that store after 100% completion of the server?

    If I interpret it correctly, the store for all 4 milestone is already available. You just may not qualify to buy stuff. Based on the stuff in the store "Yahael the trader", the weapon set is not available. Also, you will need to buy the Reforger's blessing to buy other items.

    "To reclaim this item, you must have completed and claimed this Forge's Blessing item from Milestone I".
    if this is the case, then the event is contradictory. "you pay, you farm like crazy. if you don't pay, you farm for nothing.".

    I just don't understand the logic of this approach. I would like to hear the official version, because as a result, we do not have complete information about this event.

    @nitocris83 I would be very grateful if you could clarify these questions.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,182 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    hoverist said:

    hoverist said:

    and one more thing I do not understand, what is the format of the event? can I buy a set, get a lot of grind, get rewards, and spend my currency on the same rewards that I've already been given?

    or I can not buy a set, grind a lot and not get most of the rewards? it's just that I already have over 28k of currency and the store for milestone 1 is unavailable. will I be able to buy something in that store after 100% completion of the server?

    If I interpret it correctly, the store for all 4 milestone is already available. You just may not qualify to buy stuff. Based on the stuff in the store "Yahael the trader", the weapon set is not available. Also, you will need to buy the Reforger's blessing to buy other items.

    "To reclaim this item, you must have completed and claimed this Forge's Blessing item from Milestone I".
    if this is the case, then the event is contradictory. "you pay, you farm like crazy. if you don't pay, you farm for nothing.".

    I just don't understand the logic of this approach. I would like to hear the official version, because as a result, we do not have complete information about this event.

    @nitocris83 I would be very grateful if you could clarify these questions.

    If you are interest with the weapon set ONLY, you can get it from the campaign (not from store) without paying Zen. You need to get 21K favor by Sept 15 though.

    The top layer rewards can be obtained without paying Zen but you need to get enough favor within the time limit.
    The bottom layer rewards requires Zen purchase.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • hoveristhoverist Member Posts: 39 Arc User

    hoverist said:

    hoverist said:

    and one more thing I do not understand, what is the format of the event? can I buy a set, get a lot of grind, get rewards, and spend my currency on the same rewards that I've already been given?

    or I can not buy a set, grind a lot and not get most of the rewards? it's just that I already have over 28k of currency and the store for milestone 1 is unavailable. will I be able to buy something in that store after 100% completion of the server?

    If I interpret it correctly, the store for all 4 milestone is already available. You just may not qualify to buy stuff. Based on the stuff in the store "Yahael the trader", the weapon set is not available. Also, you will need to buy the Reforger's blessing to buy other items.

    "To reclaim this item, you must have completed and claimed this Forge's Blessing item from Milestone I".
    if this is the case, then the event is contradictory. "you pay, you farm like crazy. if you don't pay, you farm for nothing.".

    I just don't understand the logic of this approach. I would like to hear the official version, because as a result, we do not have complete information about this event.

    @nitocris83 I would be very grateful if you could clarify these questions.

    If you are interest with the weapon set ONLY, you can get it from the campaign (not from store) without paying Zen. You need to get 21K favor by Sept 15 though.

    The top layer rewards can be obtained without paying Zen but you need to get enough favor within the time limit.
    The bottom layer rewards requires Zen purchase.
    no, weapons don't interest me. I am interested in the possibility of spending currency on everything that is in the store for the opening of milestones( http://prntscr.com/u4k4fg ). also getting a race - is it necessary or not to buy a set. in the posts below everything is written.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,182 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    hoverist said:

    hoverist said:

    hoverist said:

    and one more thing I do not understand, what is the format of the event? can I buy a set, get a lot of grind, get rewards, and spend my currency on the same rewards that I've already been given?

    or I can not buy a set, grind a lot and not get most of the rewards? it's just that I already have over 28k of currency and the store for milestone 1 is unavailable. will I be able to buy something in that store after 100% completion of the server?

    If I interpret it correctly, the store for all 4 milestone is already available. You just may not qualify to buy stuff. Based on the stuff in the store "Yahael the trader", the weapon set is not available. Also, you will need to buy the Reforger's blessing to buy other items.

    "To reclaim this item, you must have completed and claimed this Forge's Blessing item from Milestone I".
    if this is the case, then the event is contradictory. "you pay, you farm like crazy. if you don't pay, you farm for nothing.".

    I just don't understand the logic of this approach. I would like to hear the official version, because as a result, we do not have complete information about this event.

    @nitocris83 I would be very grateful if you could clarify these questions.

    If you are interest with the weapon set ONLY, you can get it from the campaign (not from store) without paying Zen. You need to get 21K favor by Sept 15 though.

    The top layer rewards can be obtained without paying Zen but you need to get enough favor within the time limit.
    The bottom layer rewards requires Zen purchase.
    no, weapons don't interest me. I am interested in the possibility of spending currency on everything that is in the store for the opening of milestones( http://prntscr.com/u4k4fg ). also getting a race - is it necessary or not to buy a set. in the posts below everything is written.
    All the stuff in that store are the bottom layer. The requirement is the red text in each item.

    "To reclaim this item, you must have completed and claimed this Forge's Blessing item from Milestone I/II/III/IV"

    completed -> do all the grinding.
    claimed -> you need to buy Forge's Blessing from Zen store in order to claim anything from the bottom layer.

    By the way, crown of candies looks cool. My character will be an hot head. :)
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    hoverist said:

    hoverist said:

    and one more thing I do not understand, what is the format of the event? can I buy a set, get a lot of grind, get rewards, and spend my currency on the same rewards that I've already been given?

    or I can not buy a set, grind a lot and not get most of the rewards? it's just that I already have over 28k of currency and the store for milestone 1 is unavailable. will I be able to buy something in that store after 100% completion of the server?

    If I interpret it correctly, the store for all 4 milestone is already available. You just may not qualify to buy stuff. Based on the stuff in the store "Yahael the trader", the weapon set is not available. Also, you will need to buy the Reforger's blessing to buy other items.

    "To reclaim this item, you must have completed and claimed this Forge's Blessing item from Milestone I".
    if this is the case, then the event is contradictory. "you pay, you farm like crazy. if you don't pay, you farm for nothing.".

    I just don't understand the logic of this approach. I would like to hear the official version, because as a result, we do not have complete information about this event.

    @nitocris83 I would be very grateful if you could clarify these questions.

    that IS it in a nutshell. there is no further explanation you are going to get. it was poorly thought out imo.
  • vaultingfrog#2497 vaultingfrog Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    So... am I still right is thinking that once the overall milestone is reached you can no longer contribute to your personal milestone?

    If that is the case then this is still a pay to win event due to the time constraints. If you wish to actually participate with out taking time off work and grinding for 8 hours a day or more you need to get the buyout simply to complete your personal milestone.

    PC finished the overall progress fairly quickly for the first segment of the event. Like a week or less. That doesn't bode well for a casual player whom might get 2 or 3 hours of play time a day at most.

    Thus rewards are gone even though they are "free" due to being grindable. But only if you devote all your time to do it so you fall within the time frame of the overall milestone progress.

    If I am wrong with this view on how the even operates, please let me know. I'm trying to make sure I understand this as accurately as possible.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User

    So... am I still right is thinking that once the overall milestone is reached you can no longer contribute to your personal milestone?



    If that is the case then this is still a pay to win event due to the time constraints. If you wish to actually participate with out taking time off work and grinding for 8 hours a day or more you need to get the buyout simply to complete your personal milestone.



    PC finished the overall progress fairly quickly for the first segment of the event. Like a week or less. That doesn't bode well for a casual player whom might get 2 or 3 hours of play time a day at most.



    Thus rewards are gone even though they are "free" due to being grindable. But only if you devote all your time to do it so you fall within the time frame of the overall milestone progress.



    If I am wrong with this view on how the even operates, please let me know. I'm trying to make sure I understand this as accurately as possible.

    (Several rewrites later so as not to promote violence towards people spreading misinformation about this campaign!) (Additional note, not upset at the quoted user).

    You have until Milestone 2 STARTS to complete your personal milestone rewards [1,2], Milestone 2 will start on Sept 15th [2] (or later if the server progress for some reason takes a vacation). If you have a reforger's blessing, you have all the time you want, but must complete milestone 1 before you go on to milestone 2 [3].

    My Sources: 1, 5th paragraph https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/11477213-the-redeemed-citadel!
    2 https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1257475/redeemed-citadel-additional-information
    And 3 the in-game campaign window tooltips for the 2nd milestone.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,182 Arc User

    So... am I still right is thinking that once the overall milestone is reached you can no longer contribute to your personal milestone?



    If that is the case then this is still a pay to win event due to the time constraints. If you wish to actually participate with out taking time off work and grinding for 8 hours a day or more you need to get the buyout simply to complete your personal milestone.



    PC finished the overall progress fairly quickly for the first segment of the event. Like a week or less. That doesn't bode well for a casual player whom might get 2 or 3 hours of play time a day at most.



    Thus rewards are gone even though they are "free" due to being grindable. But only if you devote all your time to do it so you fall within the time frame of the overall milestone progress.



    If I am wrong with this view on how the even operates, please let me know. I'm trying to make sure I understand this as accurately as possible.

    You have up to Sep 15 to do your personal progress for milestone 1. If you have 2 to 3 hours of play time a day, you should be able to reach 24K favor by Sep 15. For milestone 1, you only need to reach 21K favors to get the weapon set. The last 7K is for the AD.

    When milestone 1 is "completed", it is not ended. You can do your personal progress until milestone 1 is ended. It is ended when milestone 2 starts and that will be Sept 15.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • alanea#4230 alanea Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited August 2020


    You have up to Sep 15 to do your personal progress for milestone 1. If you have 2 to 3 hours of play time a day, you should be able to reach 24K favor by Sep 15. For milestone 1, you only need to reach 21K favors to get the weapon set. The last 7K is for the AD.

    2-3 hours daily of most boring brainless grind/instance hoping in history of neverwinter ?
    hell yeah thats what i cal enjoyable gameplay for next 1/3 year ... sign me in

    better lets rather praise our new awesome campaign before someone notice dislike and wipe whole topic again ;)
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,182 Arc User
    edited August 2020


    You have up to Sep 15 to do your personal progress for milestone 1. If you have 2 to 3 hours of play time a day, you should be able to reach 24K favor by Sep 15. For milestone 1, you only need to reach 21K favors to get the weapon set. The last 7K is for the AD.

    2-3 hours daily of most boring brainless grind/instance hoping in history of neverwinter ?
    hell yeah thats what i cal enjoyable gameplay for next 1/3 year ... sign me in

    better lets rather praise our new awesome campaign before someone notice dislike and wipe whole topic again ;)
    I replied to the one who said "That doesn't bode well for a casual player whom might get 2 or 3 hours of play time a day at most.". I have no opinion how much time anyone can play or how they want to play. I replied based on the said parameters.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • alanea#4230 alanea Member Posts: 48 Arc User


    I replied to the one who said "That doesn't bode well for a casual player whom might get 2 or 3 hours of play time a day at most.". I have no opinion how much time anyone can play or how they want to play. I replied based on the said parameters.

    relax i dont meant too attack you in any way ;) just pointing out the grind is so awfull that everyone would be bored even with 5-10 min of that bs daily .... it can be done within hourr for 90% people ... but even then its 120 hours of hiting bhe
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited August 2020


    I replied to the one who said "That doesn't bode well for a casual player whom might get 2 or 3 hours of play time a day at most.". I have no opinion how much time anyone can play or how they want to play. I replied based on the said parameters.

    relax i dont meant too attack you in any way ;) just pointing out the grind is so awfull that everyone would be bored even with 5-10 min of that bs daily .... it can be done within hourr for 90% people ... but even then its 120 hours of hiting bhe

    imo the solution as it stands right now is to make it so all xp counts. so people can do what they do and move forward with it and open it up to everyone in the game. forcing people do endless grind bhes equals burn out on a high level. either that or make it so that the "weeklies" are repeatable. I'd much rather grind Elol or spellplague than bhes.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    IMO,

    the best path forward is to increase the value of the hardmode mission bonus from 600 to 1800, and to announce that after the fourth stage has ended, that all items (including the premium) will be available via game vendor for fallen currency.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited August 2020

    IMO,

    the best path forward is to increase the value of the hardmode mission bonus from 600 to 1800, and to announce that after the fourth stage has ended, that all items (including the premium) will be available via game vendor for fallen currency.

    hardmode is 1200 not 600 and that doesn't do anything to decrease the insane grind that is expected of people. with even a remote chance of fail in that mode you are better off time wise just doing he's anyway.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,182 Arc User
    Personally, it is not as bad as I thought. It looks like I may be able to do the 2nd toon. I am doing through the 'slow' route. It is too much pain to jump around for BHE. I could and I did but I don't exactly like it. I still do BHE if my instance has one. I have just passed the 21K mark.

    Since I did not do "Path of the Fallen" as fast as others, I still have those quests to do. Fulfilling both Fallen quests and favor quests in the same run, it is not that bad. That also allows me to skip upgrading Legend set and jump direct to the Blessed set from Alabaster set. For the minimum, IMO, this is much better than farming maps before (although I now have more than 100 maps in the inventory).

    I am doing this in relax mode. Can I do that for 4 months? Not sure.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited August 2020

    IMO,

    the best path forward is to increase the value of the hardmode mission bonus from 600 to 1800, and to announce that after the fourth stage has ended, that all items (including the premium) will be available via game vendor for fallen currency.

    I have to disagree a bit here, because quite frankly, I think there is nothing that needs fixing - as long as you are just playing a single alt.

    Now, the "free" reward tier is not worth much - the Blessed weapons are worthless if you have the Celestial or Lionheart set, and as for the AD rewards, you could earn more AD in the same time by not grinding the event.

    No, the whole Redeemed Citadel is pretty much worthless except for the items in the "paid" tier - a copuple of rings, 3 companion gear pieces, good pants, legendary insignia, whirlwind mount and the Asimar race. To me, that stuff is worth the grind and 4000 Zen (5000 if you are unlucky) - and some of it is indeed BiS for me, even if it only gives a minuscule increment over existing gear.

    However, I really only play a single character nowadays - and that's the issue with this event .... it is OK to spend an hour per day on it to get the rewards, but if you have multiple alts, it is, well...just not fun. That's the angle that might need some reconsidering ... but for people with just one character.....meh, no complaints from me.
    Post edited by adinosii on
    Hoping for improvements...
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    adinosii said:

    IMO,

    the best path forward is to increase the value of the hardmode mission bonus from 600 to 1800, and to announce that after the fourth stage has ended, that all items (including the premium) will be available via game vendor for fallen currency.

    I have to disagree a bit here, because quite frankly, I think there is nothing that needs fixing - as long as you are just playing a single alt.

    Now, the "free" reward tier is not worth much - the Blessed weapons are worthless if you have the Celestial or Lionheart set, and as for the AD rewards, you coulæd earn more AD in the same time by not grinding the event.

    No, the whole Redeemed Citadel is pretty much worthless except for the items in the "paid" tier - a copup e of rings, 3 companion gear pieces, good pants, legendary insignia and the Asimar race. To me, that stuff is worth the grind and 4000 Zen (5000 if you are unlucky).

    However, I really only play a single character nowadays - and that's the issue with this event .... it is OK to spend an hour per day on it to get the rewards, but if you have multiple alts, it is, well...just not fun. That's the angle that might need some reconsidering ... but for people with just one character.....meh, no complaints from me.

    except that some of that stuff in the paid tier is bis. which means people that want those things MUST grind it. many people don't have that amount of time. whatever happened to the age old tradition of not being forced to grind for things? either by paying another player or by paying the company? Yes it's doable, but is it reasonably doable for every person even if they only have an hour for 3 days a week to play? how many of the player base is able to come log on and do nothing but this grind every day of the week for 45 minutes to an hour and a half? for the next four months... yes for some it's doable.. but for many it's not.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,182 Arc User
    edited August 2020

    adinosii said:

    IMO,

    the best path forward is to increase the value of the hardmode mission bonus from 600 to 1800, and to announce that after the fourth stage has ended, that all items (including the premium) will be available via game vendor for fallen currency.

    I have to disagree a bit here, because quite frankly, I think there is nothing that needs fixing - as long as you are just playing a single alt.

    Now, the "free" reward tier is not worth much - the Blessed weapons are worthless if you have the Celestial or Lionheart set, and as for the AD rewards, you coulæd earn more AD in the same time by not grinding the event.

    No, the whole Redeemed Citadel is pretty much worthless except for the items in the "paid" tier - a copup e of rings, 3 companion gear pieces, good pants, legendary insignia and the Asimar race. To me, that stuff is worth the grind and 4000 Zen (5000 if you are unlucky).

    However, I really only play a single character nowadays - and that's the issue with this event .... it is OK to spend an hour per day on it to get the rewards, but if you have multiple alts, it is, well...just not fun. That's the angle that might need some reconsidering ... but for people with just one character.....meh, no complaints from me.

    except that some of that stuff in the paid tier is bis. which means people that want those things MUST grind it. many people don't have that amount of time. whatever happened to the age old tradition of not being forced to grind for things? either by paying another player or by paying the company? Yes it's doable, but is it reasonably doable for every person even if they only have an hour for 3 days a week to play? how many of the player base is able to come log on and do nothing but this grind every day of the week for 45 minutes to an hour and a half? for the next four months... yes for some it's doable.. but for many it's not.
    If they buy the pack, they can take their time to grind it. If one wants to, he can spend (say) a year to do so.

    In the old day, Neverwinter always required grinding. There was no buyout package at all.
    e.g. The elemental weapon required one to grind 100 BHE when it came out and that could not be done alone (almost everyone wanted the fire one). You could not buy that in any mean (short of taking over somebody's account) until much later.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User

    adinosii said:

    IMO,

    the best path forward is to increase the value of the hardmode mission bonus from 600 to 1800, and to announce that after the fourth stage has ended, that all items (including the premium) will be available via game vendor for fallen currency.

    I have to disagree a bit here, because quite frankly, I think there is nothing that needs fixing - as long as you are just playing a single alt.

    Now, the "free" reward tier is not worth much - the Blessed weapons are worthless if you have the Celestial or Lionheart set, and as for the AD rewards, you coulæd earn more AD in the same time by not grinding the event.

    No, the whole Redeemed Citadel is pretty much worthless except for the items in the "paid" tier - a copup e of rings, 3 companion gear pieces, good pants, legendary insignia and the Asimar race. To me, that stuff is worth the grind and 4000 Zen (5000 if you are unlucky).

    However, I really only play a single character nowadays - and that's the issue with this event .... it is OK to spend an hour per day on it to get the rewards, but if you have multiple alts, it is, well...just not fun. That's the angle that might need some reconsidering ... but for people with just one character.....meh, no complaints from me.

    except that some of that stuff in the paid tier is bis. which means people that want those things MUST grind it. many people don't have that amount of time. whatever happened to the age old tradition of not being forced to grind for things? either by paying another player or by paying the company? Yes it's doable, but is it reasonably doable for every person even if they only have an hour for 3 days a week to play? how many of the player base is able to come log on and do nothing but this grind every day of the week for 45 minutes to an hour and a half? for the next four months... yes for some it's doable.. but for many it's not.
    Where is the BIS? One might argue the ring, but we have rings with Mog, Gary, and ToMM and who knows what else when hunts are unlocked. Companion gear has been available to get for a year now from M17. The companions are a bit meh from what I can tell and the rest is just cosmetic. All I see are horizontal progression stuff or just more options. Sure the race may be comparable to DB with the added benefit of being able to have helms and not be ugly, but it's also cheaper (not including the charity packs).
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