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DO NOT NERF TOMM

holaaaa and srr for my english, BABY ZARIEL here, TOMM is second end game content, with one of the BIS wepon set in entire game, i know ppl wana make it nerf, and nerf wepon bonus..... but..... alot of end game player spent week to lern mechanic, spent alot of AD for potion ,stone.....so is no point to nerf it, another think wat i think, TOMM need to be bufed, like put more time on F3 and increase halaster HP by 100 mil or more, why ? now is mod 19, md then all helers be nerfed, but... we stil can do it with 1 tank, and 1 op heler, so why you speak abaut nerfing TOMM, so plz never nerf TOMM
BABY ZARIEL.... 270k base HUNTER
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Comments

  • tassedethe13tassedethe13 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    I think TOMM is a first step for someone to get used to real teamplay and mechanic learning.
    Getting the second BIS weapon there is a good thing because people try to improve themself to succeed, and be zariel ready.

    BTW, if you don't have TOMM weapons, why do you want to do zariel challenge in the first place ? And if you are not taken in groups for zariel, try making your own and you will quickly see why people ask for lionheart weapons.
  • tassedethe13tassedethe13 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    Like i said, this is not a requirement, just common sense.
    Don't you have the quest for killing Halaster too? Why do you want to skip some step?
  • merik1999merik1999 Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    > @tassedethe13 said:
    > Like i said, this is not a requirement, just common sense.
    > Don't you have the quest for killing Halaster too? Why do you want to skip some step?

    But the flaw is, its not common sense.
    To be honest, why make it so the BiS weapons are rewards for AFTER you beat the Dungeon? Then what do you do? You already have BiS so what do grind for?
    With this method, you HAVE to skip steps. The only way to beat end game dungeon is to get BiS gear to beat dungeons to get BiS gears... flawed.
  • elderislt#1066 elderislt Member Posts: 146 Arc User

    merik1999 said:

    > @tassedethe13 said:

    > Like i said, this is not a requirement, just common sense.

    > Don't you have the quest for killing Halaster too? Why do you want to skip some step?



    But the flaw is, its not common sense.

    To be honest, why make it so the BiS weapons are rewards for AFTER you beat the Dungeon? Then what do you do? You already have BiS so what do grind for?

    With this method, you HAVE to skip steps. The only way to beat end game dungeon is to get BiS gear to beat dungeons to get BiS gears... flawed.

    You beat TOMM to get better weapons to beat Zariel. This looks logic for me.
    The mod 19 campaign offers you better weapons than Alabaster to beat TOMM, it's a way to help the one struggling with TOMM.
    And after you beat Zariel you get the best weapons making it easier helping the one farming their weapons, always been like this.
    yep, nobody dont wana take you to zariel if you dont have lion set :DDD
    BABY ZARIEL.... 270k base HUNTER
  • elderislt#1066 elderislt Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited July 2020

    > @tassedethe13 said:

    > Like i said, this is not a requirement, just common sense.

    > Don't you have the quest for killing Halaster too? Why do you want to skip some step?



    because when tomm came out cleric was in a bad spot for dps, i tried it a few times but never got very far, never put much into healing (I don't have a proper healing setup, so nobody would take me as a healer) dps was my only option. after not learning anything and wasting time trying to do the dungeon I gave up on it. now it's old content, why should i run it? its over a year old at this point, it needs to just go away. zariel is something new and its not being pushed by the devs as some elite challenge like tomm was, so I feel like theres a better chance of normal/casual players beating it then there was with tomm.

    I quit the game for about 4 months over not being able to get into TOMM groups, i come back and everyone on my friends list has lionheart on all their alts, and now cleric is considered top ST dps. the entire situation with TOMM dividing the community in the game and causing hard feelings just makes me not want to run it now. I skipped codg for 3 mods, skipped CR for 1 mod. imo TOMM is skippable content.......and to top it off It's not even remotely fun, its just been stressful as hell everytime i've tried to run it because I have no clue what to do and everyone else on the team has beat it 500 times, its infuriating just knowing that its because of my class i couldnt get into groups, i watched about 75% of my friends roll a wizard and just start going for tomm because at the time wizard was very strong dps, it was THE strongest dps. everything about tomm disgusts me. also I don't want to do "training runs" just to be able to run dungeons. thats some totally new stuff that people came up with for tomm.

    so i am going to try zariel...I've solo queued it and messed around to see how hard she hits, i'm waiting to drop the legion guard weapons before i actually get ready to form a group though. and hey if i find it to be too hard I will just write it off as another skippable content, and wait for mod 20 to upgrade my characters weapons.


    amm... haw you beett zariel if you cant beat tomm ? :D nothink personal, but you need speant alot of time ti grind tomm, to understand mecha, you can do low dmg, but ppl take you if you can survive, and if you know mecha, then TOMM came to live, i never do crazy dmg as HR, but i spent abaut every dai for 4 h to training tomm to understand mecha, , after wat i go from groop to groop, and ppl start invite me not for my dmg, becose i can survive :)
    and like i say, you same need do training for zariel ( 1 mistake and you can kill all party) its not easy, + no lion wepon = no zariel, maybe ara dont have hard mechanic, but mecha spon fast , and alot of time :D i dont say you bad, i wana say you still need LION wepon to go zara :3
    BABY ZARIEL.... 270k base HUNTER
  • elderislt#1066 elderislt Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    and yes if toy take zariel wepon, and tomm wepon, zariel wepon increase yuo dmg abaut 3.4% only
    BABY ZARIEL.... 270k base HUNTER
  • elderislt#1066 elderislt Member Posts: 146 Arc User

    > @tassedethe13 said:

    > @azmerella#6394

    >

    > If you skip all the hard content, and don't want to do any training, you better skip Zariel too.

    >

    > You don't have the good attitude, TOMM or Zariel requires maybe 30h training at least if you are average, more if you are not enough fast or have difficulties understanding mecanisms. You can't hope beating this content by running it 2-3 times.

    >

    > All your friends with weapons had the good attitute, they work for their weapons, and spend a lot of time learning and training.

    >

    > BTW the easy version of the trial is not out yet, maybe in a few weeks it will be on live server.



    maybe some people don't want to spend 30 hours to learn how to beat up some homeless guy for 15 mins?

    I certainly don't, and won't.

    true, but its end game content , its not so pose to be easy, wat was make this game more intrasting, then you just cant do everything in first try :)
    BABY ZARIEL.... 270k base HUNTER
  • micheal1979micheal1979 Member Posts: 103 Arc User

    > @tassedethe13 said:

    > @azmerella#6394

    >

    > If you skip all the hard content, and don't want to do any training, you better skip Zariel too.

    >

    > You don't have the good attitude, TOMM or Zariel requires maybe 30h training at least if you are average, more if you are not enough fast or have difficulties understanding mecanisms. You can't hope beating this content by running it 2-3 times.

    >

    > All your friends with weapons had the good attitute, they work for their weapons, and spend a lot of time learning and training.

    >

    > BTW the easy version of the trial is not out yet, maybe in a few weeks it will be on live server.



    maybe some people don't want to spend 30 hours to learn how to beat up some homeless guy for 15 mins?

    I certainly don't, and won't.

    So why even post about the topic, just go back to an easier game that requires no effort. I understand playing nerfed classes my main is a barbarian (rip gwf). But, no point in flaming forums for content you will never do and you have already posted saying you do content mods later. Move on, adapt, have fun, and if all else fails leave to find something more your speed and enjoy that instead. Best of luck and I hope you enjoy your weekend.
    We Are Crolm
    Believer in SMASH
    Fairplay,no bots , no bugs, and play well
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnN0Yofs-Scv1nd8U_bSYLA/featured
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,482 Arc User

    To be honest the dungeon is not the issue, people are.

    This horses**t attitude of you MUST have this weapon, and this chest and these boots and these gloves.
    You MUST do this rotation, and use this paragon.

    If I do not see these gears and blah blah then you do not get a chance for invite to show that there is more than one way to win.

    I mean no disrespect to those that have done ToMM or ZC.
    I know that SOMETIMES there is some truth to what they are saying, but there is just as much BS,

    I mean have any of you even tried doing Zariel with Legion weapons? HELL even hellfire ones?
    I am guessing thats a big fat NO since 90% of the server cant even get legions.
    So this assumption of MUST have Lionhearts is complete nonsense.
    Maybe if you have no skill, and are nothing but a meta copy of someone else's build then you have no hope without Lionhearts.
    But there are plenty of people out there that are more than capable without needing BiS (cough --- mostly someone opinion only, your BiS may be my junk. case in point Orc Set... never liked that stupid set granted most times i ran stuff bosses were being burned in 1min or less making that set mostly useless)


    God forbid it takes 5 minutes longer to run a dungeon because someone is not wearing the "right" gear.

    I'm not familiar with what people ask for Zariel, but if you have objection to any requirement why not make the group?
    The game itself doesn't force specific items or builds or whatever, yes there is minimum damage you must be able to take, but how to deal with it is also up to the you, mitigation, hp or any solution.

    So with plenty people around with the same notion why not just group up and do it? (I'm not sarcastic).

    btw, while we can look at situational best items, for the group, for the level and so on where what is considered "BiS" will not be the best option, BiS is usually referred as absolute "what is the best composition of all the possible compositions conceivable"

    Besides the point, but not sure why Orcus will be useless in 1min fight.
  • tassedethe13tassedethe13 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User


    don't tell me what to do. thank you

    But, aren't you telling everybody to take people without lionheart weapons ?
  • elderislt#1066 elderislt Member Posts: 146 Arc User


    don't tell me what to do. thank you

    But, aren't you telling everybody to take people without lionheart weapons ?
    agree with you, ppl need remember zariel need minimum 5 HDPS player i thinkwith wepon , even F2 are all party ceck and dps ceck
    BABY ZARIEL.... 270k base HUNTER
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User

    > @tassedethe13 said:

    > (Quote)

    > But, aren't you telling everybody to take people without lionheart weapons ?



    I'm not telling anyone to do anything, I'm expressing a personal opinion on the new dungeon and unless the devs say otherwise I am going to assume zariel is meant to be beaten by a larger part of the playerbase then tomm was designed for, and also I am going to assume that the new weapons (hellfire and legion guard) were introduced to allow players to beat the new trial.

    tomm is over a year old, it was a test dungeon, there is no reason that people should be required to complete it to do newer content. I've yet too see a post from the developers saying anything to that extent.

    there also hasnt been a post by the devs which support the stuff you are saying.
    Run it with whatever setup you like. And if you dont want to do it, dont do it. No need to complain about it.
  • flecia#3114 flecia Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    To be honest the dungeon is not the issue, people are.

    This horses**t attitude of you MUST have this weapon, and this chest and these boots and these gloves.
    You MUST do this rotation, and use this paragon.

    If I do not see these gears and blah blah then you do not get a chance for invite to show that there is more than one way to win.

    I mean no disrespect to those that have done ToMM or ZC.
    I know that SOMETIMES there is some truth to what they are saying, but there is just as much BS,

    I mean have any of you even tried doing Zariel with Legion weapons? HELL even hellfire ones?
    I am guessing thats a big fat NO since 90% of the server cant even get legions.
    So this assumption of MUST have Lionhearts is complete nonsense.
    Maybe if you have no skill, and are nothing but a meta copy of someone else's build then you have no hope without Lionhearts.
    But there are plenty of people out there that are more than capable without needing BiS (cough --- mostly someone opinion only, your BiS may be my junk. case in point Orc Set... never liked that stupid set granted most times i ran stuff bosses were being burned in 1min or less making that set mostly useless)


    God forbid it takes 5 minutes longer to run a dungeon because someone is not wearing the "right" gear.

    I'm not familiar with what people ask for Zariel, but if you have objection to any requirement why not make the group?
    The game itself doesn't force specific items or builds or whatever, yes there is minimum damage you must be able to take, but how to deal with it is also up to the you, mitigation, hp or any solution.

    So with plenty people around with the same notion why not just group up and do it? (I'm not sarcastic).

    btw, while we can look at situational best items, for the group, for the level and so on where what is considered "BiS" will not be the best option, BiS is usually referred as absolute "what is the best composition of all the possible compositions conceivable"

    Besides the point, but not sure why Orcus will be useless in 1min fight.

    Then clearly you have no idea what Orcus set did. I do not want to turn this into a hijacking ... so keep the topic on the content at hand.

    But just to clarify ... in order to gain a "significant" enough damage boost a boss needed to have lower HP. say for the purposes of the argument < 50% HP. If a boss fight lasts 30s then you have little to no time where that even happens. Most of the time after 50% bosses were being 1,2,3 shotted and its becomes a matter of HE WHO HIT FIRST HIT MOST.
    Codg is much like that these days. DPS charts in there mean very little as its all about HE WHO BUFF UP AT THE RIGHT TIME and plant at wizard location, hit the boss/wizard hard first will be on top most of the time.

    As far as making my own group goes I will if need be. I have no worries, nor do I need to rush.
    That does not change my original point about peoples attitudes.







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