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Broken CR scaling

merik1999merik1999 Member Posts: 141 Arc User
I know, everyone hates CR and they leave when it shows. The problem is the end boss and the broken Scaling.

I enter CR with my IL lower than the max. Because that is what Scaling is. Thus my power is 140k + and all my Def, and ACC, AP, CS are all Above 75k and a CA of 115k. Therefore I can beat all the bosses even Strahd.
However With a Low IL my HP is too Low for the Red Areas in the final boss battle. I have to get my IL too high and it is scaled, but My HP is now high enough to withstand most of the Red Area, but not all as my HP is about 350k.

Thus Scaling is messed up as the Red Area is doing too much damage. You can still beat it, but if the whole point of scaling is to make it more fair for everyone, the damage is too high and you have to be OP in order to beat it, not at level.




Comments

  • micheal1979micheal1979 Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    I wish I could respond, but I have not run this at level since mod 14 launched. I would say premades we always win. I don't pug more than 1 spot usually and even then its from a zerg channel, never use lfg channel.
    We Are Crolm
    Believer in SMASH
    Fairplay,no bots , no bugs, and play well
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnN0Yofs-Scv1nd8U_bSYLA/featured
  • lordnagy#1603 lordnagy Member Posts: 177 Arc User
    The same problem occurs in Lostmouth...the fire burns as if ur lvl 70....I can easily be killed if I’m knocked into the lava
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User
    Lava is supposed to kill you regardless of your level. Same with the molten gold in the boss fight.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • micheal1979micheal1979 Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    It mostly seems the people who complain about dying in old content, just may not know the mechanics yet. During server down times there are a ton of youtube guides on dungeons to help with this. I know people don't want to do homework for a game, but to be good in most mmo's you need to do a little. Best of luck and enjoy your weekend.
    We Are Crolm
    Believer in SMASH
    Fairplay,no bots , no bugs, and play well
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnN0Yofs-Scv1nd8U_bSYLA/featured
  • merik1999merik1999 Member Posts: 141 Arc User

    It mostly seems the people who complain about dying in old content, just may not know the mechanics yet. During server down times there are a ton of youtube guides on dungeons to help with this. I know people don't want to do homework for a game, but to be good in most mmo's you need to do a little. Best of luck and enjoy your weekend.

    you do not understand the post.
    What I am saying is that with scaling you have to lower your IL for each dungeon due to scaling. Thus My stats are stronger when I lower my IL to the max IL of the dungeon. BUT during the strahd fight, it does not work that way. You have to raise your IL back to normal due to the extreme high Damage the AOE causes. That is why I am saying it is broken. In other words, you can not beat strahd at Level. You have to be MUCH higher.


  • grrowler#0622 grrowler Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    not sure if this is related, but I have been noticing that the scaling for the end boss Vansi Bloodscar in the random dungeon queue cloak tower seems broken. I do not know if it is intentional - end bosses should be tougher, but the power of this boss seems extremely challenging at the very end.

  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User
    The better your gear, the higher your IL, the more you get punished. That makes Vansi one of the most powerful bosses in the randoms.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • merik1999merik1999 Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    > @azmerella#6394 said:
    > (Quote)
    > I don't really think anything is wrong with CR, I've ran it 4 times this past week and didn't remove any gear, only one time did we wipe at strahd, you could try equipping a piercing ring of the assassin for 10% Damage vs undead and also a 10% dmg vs undead overload and a 10% undead damage reduction overload.

    You are missing the point. The scaling nerfs your HP too much to attempt the dungeon at IL level. The AOE is still hitting too hard. So you HAVE to be OP for that phase of the dungeon.

    You can test this by having your whole team lower their IL to 18900. When you get to Strahd you will die alot. But if you raise your IL to your normal OP range and notice how much easier it is. The damage you hit with will be much lower vut your High HP will get you through it. Thus, the AOEis too high for at level play.
  • merik1999merik1999 Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    > @greywynd said:
    > The better your gear, the higher your IL, the more you get punished. That makes Vansi one of the most powerful bosses in the randoms.

    Um..sort of. If you lower your IL, you will obliterate Vansi, howerver your HP will suffer. So its the same thing as Strahd. End boss is doing too much damage for at level play.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User
    merik1999 said:


    Um..sort of. If you lower your IL, you will obliterate Vansi, howerver your HP will suffer. So its the same thing as Strahd. End boss is doing too much damage for at level play.

    Lowering your IL for any reason pretty much kills "progression of character". Which is why people want to improve. To progress.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • shugenshashugensha Member Posts: 191 Arc User
    About CR final boss, all you gotta do is group hug and have the healer do it's job. The dung is really easy as long it doesn't bug. Group hugs, stay next to a candle and avoid the big X. Don't trust your healer? Then move around when you see the orbs.
    And before anything, i pug alone 90% of the times.
    The meta it's just a guideline. And guidelines are boring.

    Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
    Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour

  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    merik1999 said:

    I know, everyone hates CR and they leave when it shows. The problem is the end boss and the broken Scaling.

    I enter CR with my IL lower than the max. Because that is what Scaling is. Thus my power is 140k + and all my Def, and ACC, AP, CS are all Above 75k and a CA of 115k. Therefore I can beat all the bosses even Strahd.
    However With a Low IL my HP is too Low for the Red Areas in the final boss battle. I have to get my IL too high and it is scaled, but My HP is now high enough to withstand most of the Red Area, but not all as my HP is about 350k.

    Thus Scaling is messed up as the Red Area is doing too much damage. You can still beat it, but if the whole point of scaling is to make it more fair for everyone, the damage is too high and you have to be OP in order to beat it, not at level.

    Actually this has always been the case since mod 14. Basically the Strahd fight is spamming red at you. If you have a decent healer in the party, its a cake walk even if you have low HP. Also there are ways to learn the mechanic completely so you are in fact only ever in a red dot against your will, 1 or possibly 2 times ever during that fight.

    Those red dots have an orb that appears before they explode. There is a pattern that can be learned to tell you where its "safer" to move. However; just because its "safer" to move to does not mean you are out of danger completely, you still have to mind the X arrow darts that fly across the room.

    Near the end of the fight before the party gets pulled up top by Strahd, you will get spammed red dots and the pattern you were using to avoid them early in the fight, no longer apply. You will see every "safe" spot now is blocked by another orb. So late fight is the ONLY real time you need to have HP.

    This pattern is so easy to learn, and totally benefits low IL characters, I am surprised more players have not learned the pattern yet. But going back to what I mentioned earlier, you really only need to learn this pattern, if the healer sucks or you are too low item level to withstand the blast aoe dmg.

  • merik1999merik1999 Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    krumple01 said:

    merik1999 said:

    I know, everyone

    Actually this has always been the case since mod 14. Basically the Strahd fight is spamming red at you. If you have a decent healer in the party, its a cake walk even if you have low HP. Also there are ways to learn the mechanic completely so you are in fact only ever in a red dot against your will, 1 or possibly 2 times ever during that fight.

    Those red dots have an orb that appears before they explode. There is a pattern that can be learned to tell you where its "safer" to move. However; just because its "safer" to move to does not mean you are out of danger completely, you still have to mind the X arrow darts that fly across the room.

    Near the end of the fight before the party gets pulled up top by Strahd, you will get spammed red dots and the pattern you were using to avoid them early in the fight, no longer apply. You will see every "safe" spot now is blocked by another orb. So late fight is the ONLY real time you need to have HP.

    This pattern is so easy to learn, and totally benefits low IL characters, I am surprised more players have not learned the pattern yet. But going back to what I mentioned earlier, you really only need to learn this pattern, if the healer sucks or you are too low item level to withstand the blast aoe dmg.

    I appreciate your advice. But you still do not understand the Post. Have you even tried to do the dungeon at level? Go ahead. Try it with only 19000 IL. The healer can NOT heal you when you are oneshot by the red areas.
    You can not get your HP high enough to avoid being oneshot. THUS, the damage is too high.

    I KNOW THE MECHANICS. I have 3 man this dungeon MANY MANY MANY times. But I have to be OP to do it. even if you do the Dungeon at Level (I recommend HIGHLY!!!) the dungeon is fairly easy and you just have to know the mechanics. BUT at the Strahd fight you CAN NOT do that. The damage is too much from the red areas and you have to by OP and crank your HP up to at least 280k Thats pretty hard to do at IL for dps.



  • merik1999merik1999 Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    shugensha said:

    About CR final boss, all you gotta do is group hug and have the healer do it's job. The dung is really easy as long it doesn't bug. Group hugs, stay next to a candle and avoid the big X. Don't trust your healer? Then move around when you see the orbs.
    And before anything, i pug alone 90% of the times.

    Have you done the Dungeon at level? was your IL above 19k? if so, then you were OP and any advice you give has nothing to do with this post. The post is that the damage is too high for at level play They would need to up the IL to 21k to keep the damage where it is.
  • merik1999merik1999 Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    merik1999 said:


    Um..sort of. If you lower your IL, you will obliterate Vansi, howerver your HP will suffer. So its the same thing as Strahd. End boss is doing too much damage for at level play.

    Lowering your IL for any reason pretty much kills "progression of character". Which is why people want to improve. To progress.
    UM no. That is completely wrong as the current scaling model proves.
    If you truly believe this then you do not understand what the scaling is nor how it works.

    When you lower your IL you midigate the scaling. That is how the current model is run. Why? who knows.
    The Dev team does not want you to use OP newer gear. So you have to use older gear on older dungeons. The problem is that the older gear even though it is EXTREMELY useful in older dungeons, does not give you enough HP. Which, in turn, negates the whole reason to scale.
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    merik1999 said:

    krumple01 said:

    merik1999 said:

    I know, everyone

    Actually this has always been the case since mod 14. Basically the Strahd fight is spamming red at you. If you have a decent healer in the party, its a cake walk even if you have low HP. Also there are ways to learn the mechanic completely so you are in fact only ever in a red dot against your will, 1 or possibly 2 times ever during that fight.

    Those red dots have an orb that appears before they explode. There is a pattern that can be learned to tell you where its "safer" to move. However; just because its "safer" to move to does not mean you are out of danger completely, you still have to mind the X arrow darts that fly across the room.

    Near the end of the fight before the party gets pulled up top by Strahd, you will get spammed red dots and the pattern you were using to avoid them early in the fight, no longer apply. You will see every "safe" spot now is blocked by another orb. So late fight is the ONLY real time you need to have HP.

    This pattern is so easy to learn, and totally benefits low IL characters, I am surprised more players have not learned the pattern yet. But going back to what I mentioned earlier, you really only need to learn this pattern, if the healer sucks or you are too low item level to withstand the blast aoe dmg.

    I appreciate your advice. But you still do not understand the Post. Have you even tried to do the dungeon at level? Go ahead. Try it with only 19000 IL. The healer can NOT heal you when you are oneshot by the red areas.
    You can not get your HP high enough to avoid being oneshot. THUS, the damage is too high.

    I KNOW THE MECHANICS. I have 3 man this dungeon MANY MANY MANY times. But I have to be OP to do it. even if you do the Dungeon at Level (I recommend HIGHLY!!!) the dungeon is fairly easy and you just have to know the mechanics. BUT at the Strahd fight you CAN NOT do that. The damage is too much from the red areas and you have to by OP and crank your HP up to at least 280k Thats pretty hard to do at IL for dps.



    I have one of each class, I have taken all of them through CR at various times of its history of being a bugfest, to almost completely uncompletable to its current point. The strahd fight has always been a spam one shot death fight. But I honestly think you really don't know the mechanics of avoiding the red explosive aoe or you wouldn't of objected to the one shot death. For 75% of the fight they are completely avoidable. Yeah that doesn't help for the last 25% which they become completely unavoidable.

    Do I think the fight needs to be toned down, I have thought that since mod 14, that the strahd fight was rediculous and still is. You can't be new and walk in without knowing anything and expect to win it. And if you managed to be in a party who did win as your first time, then you got carried hard.

    I agree that at the minimum item level for entry the red dots shouldn't be able to one shot you but hey, one shot death mechanics seems to be the only trick the devs have. They have been plaguing the game since mod 14 and only get worse.

  • jsearsdev#9224 jsearsdev Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    krumple01 said:


    I have one of each class, I have taken all of them through CR at various times of its history of being a bugfest, to almost completely uncompletable to its current point. The strahd fight has always been a spam one shot death fight. But I honestly think you really don't know the mechanics of avoiding the red explosive aoe or you wouldn't of objected to the one shot death. For 75% of the fight they are completely avoidable. Yeah that doesn't help for the last 25% which they become completely unavoidable.

    There is always a way to avoid the ardor explosions throughout the whole fight. A while back those attacks were toned down so that you could also get hit by one and survive for most characters, but you certainly don't want to be getting hit by them repeatedly.
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    krumple01 said:


    I have one of each class, I have taken all of them through CR at various times of its history of being a bugfest, to almost completely uncompletable to its current point. The strahd fight has always been a spam one shot death fight. But I honestly think you really don't know the mechanics of avoiding the red explosive aoe or you wouldn't of objected to the one shot death. For 75% of the fight they are completely avoidable. Yeah that doesn't help for the last 25% which they become completely unavoidable.

    There is always a way to avoid the ardor explosions throughout the whole fight. A while back those attacks were toned down so that you could also get hit by one and survive for most characters, but you certainly don't want to be getting hit by them repeatedly.
    No there is a point near the time just before Strahd pulls you up top that every spot in the room is covered by the exploding orbs. So you are wrong, there is NO way to avoid them at this point in the fight. I know, I've ran CR hundreds of times, both with good groups and terrible ones.

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