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Official M19: Barbarian Feedback

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  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    It would be nice if CC immunity was actually meaningful. Right now, either in Blademaster or Sentinel path, mobs can still CC you to some extent.
  • bigman99#8273 bigman99 Member Posts: 465 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    Bug: Brash Strike, when used in conjunction with a Bilethorn enchantment(rank 14 in this case), does not allow critical hits for the 40 mag damage component, although other skills, including relentless slash allow for critical hits. The 5% increase to damage works correctly, and does allow for critical hits, just not the applied magnitude hit after 4 seconds.
  • sekosek#5740 sekosek Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    Bilethorn procs dont crit from Sure Strike, Bounding Slam and Brash Strike. And it doesnt crit from first hit of Relentless Slash. It crits only from second hit of Relentless Slash. I dont know how Bilethorn interacts with other classes powers, but from the looks, actually Relentless Slash seems the one with the bug. But we cant say for sure until knowing which way is intented.

    Can any dev can confirm that whether Bilethorn procs should crit or not?

    And can we get some information about more changes so we can provide more feedback? We didnt get any update since the first day of preview.

    @joebot#9387 , @abrightdev#0791
  • sa1985666#4952 sa1985666 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    Hello joebot,

    I would like to start with a bug that affects 1 feat and class feat of the DPS path, which hinders the class balancing for the Barbarian – Blademaster as a whole:

    That bug has been reported several times by me, but I am not sure if it got fixed internally or not:
    class feature: Impatiance and feat: Brutal Critical are similar abilities that increases the gain of Rage, while doing so with BattleRage active it creates a bug which shortens down the BattleRage active time. As I recorded the bug while fighting Dummyes aswell as fighting Bel in the Heroic Encounter.



    Impatiance class feat, in combat against Bel.. clearly not working ...
    The purpose of fixing this Bug would make the choices of picking Brutal Critical and Escalating Rage, as viable choices. Currently there is only 1 single set of Feats that are performing better, but because of this bug being around the other set of feats are not viable.

    As you can see when picking the last tier 5 feats between Escalating Rage and Relentless BattleRage, it tells us how the class would be played.
    Picking Relentless BattleRage, means that you are building Rage faster, but keeping BattleRage at a shorter Duration, which means that you use BattleRage more often, but the duration is shorter.
    Picking Escalating Rage, means that you are building Rage slower, but But BattleRage drains also slower, which means that you use BattleRage less often, but it’s duration is longer.

    Both situations look like they are opposed to eachother, which creates a different style, like the predecessor Balanced wanted originally of the class, but to make the choice of Escalating Rage to be viable, we firstly need to fix the bug shown in the video. This way it opens 2 viable tier5 choices, aswell as tier3 choices, making 2 viable choices to pick, aslong as the bug exists, these choices are less desirable.
    The result of this change will allow me to make another build which uses Escalating Rage. While the bug is still there I will be always be punished by Escalating Rage stun, because the bug keeps cuttin short BattleRage when it reaches 50% of it, because of that I cannot counter the stun of Escalating Rage. I would also like to mention that decreasing the stacks of Escalating Rage from 10x to 5x, can make a more desirable choice, and helping with the Build that can be viable.
    All I am sayin is that I would like to have choices that can make Barbarian to be played in different situations or pieces of content, which creates diversty and different playstyles, and I belive this was the intention of the first developer that made the changes in module 16.
    • Rage: Increased generation from at-wills and encounter powers.
    Encounters
    • Bloodletter: Increase magnitude from 400 to 520
    At-wills
    • Brash Strike: Increase magnitude from 90 to 110
    o Reduced activate times to .75/.9/.9 down from .9/1.1/1.1
    o Reduced Unstoppable activate times to .35/.45/.45 down from .53/.63/.63
    *Feedback: I consider that doing this change, makes Brash Strike outshine all the other at-wills, the damage tested currently is 3x higher than Relentless Slash, this means that it is 3x Times higher than Sure Strike aswell, and on another league for Bounding Slam.
    The Increasement in magnitude and fixing the animation by reducing it, it’s 2 in 1 buff . Fixing the animation would’ve problably been enough of a buff. Now the discrepancy between the 3x Single Targets at-wills, is really huge. I would like if you can take a look at the Sure Strike, Bounding Slam and Brash Strike, to even up this difference, I understand that Sentinel access to Sure Strike and Bounding Slam, but I wouldn’t be concerned that if you increase the magnitude by 10-20 for Surestrike and Bounding Slam, will affect Sentinel to overperform in Damage. So I would encourage you to put these 3x ST atwills at a closer discrepancy.
    I would want to add that I play a Sentinel with no issue to TANK or keep aggro, and I have 150.000 Power, and 130.000 Combat Advantage, and I still can’t make at-wills reach the potential of a Blademaster. So increasing these at-wills damage shouldn’t oppose a problem.
    o Encounters
    • Frenzy: Increase magnitude from 750 to 975
    o Reduced cooldown from 18 seconds to 16 seconds
    Feats
    • Bloodspiller: Reduces the cooldown of Bloodletter by 3 seconds.
    *Feedback: This feat change makes the other choice Indomitable Rage less desirable, it was already less desirable, as Barbarian playstyle doesn’t let him have 100% Rage without using BattleRage, but now it’s making it look completely not a choice, neither for PvP or PvE, as none of these playstyles can make it viable. So I would like to see how this Feat can be changed to be on par with the other.
    One of the suggestions would be that while in BattleRage the Indomitable Rage increases the Indomitable Battle Strike by 400 Magnitude. Making it a viable choice.
    So leaving the following changes that were done on preview it affects the Barbarian powers as a whole, creating a disruptive difference between AoE powers, Single Target powers, and clearly making a huge difference in Feat choices, limiting playstyles as a whole, for both PvE and PVP.

    All I am tryin to point out is that the buffs alone will make the other Powers less desirable as a choice, the predecessor before you, Balanced, had a good grasp of magnitude and cooldown of each power and their performance when it comes to AoE in a cone, AoE as a 180degree, AoE melee and AoE from distance, as well as for Single Target powers.

    So I am here requesting through feedback for adjusting some powers magnitudes and cooldowns and cast times. Because of the increasment of Single Target Powers and decrease of their cooldowns alone, it boosts the damage of Barbarian, making Single Target Powers to overshadow the AoE Powers, this is why I would encourage you to do the following changes, I am not goin to refer always to the base cooldowns, because my toon is endgame, so I would refer to the cooldowns that I have on preview with a endgame toon, unless I specifically mention base cooldown:

    Not So fast: Magnitude increased from 180 to 250.
    *Feedback: when using Not so fast, in synergy with the Feat: Relentless Speed, we can use 3x Not So Fasts in a 11s Cooldown, so we can guess that 3x 250 = 750 magnitude, which it can compete with a Single Target Power that doesn’t require a combination of Two Powers, basically 750 Magnitude will help AoE Setup to maintain itself as a AoE setup, and not replace Not So Fast with a easier encounter like Frenzy that is 975 magnitude, with 15s cooldown. So this adjustment is a must, to preserve AoE.
    Indomitable Battle Strike: it needs something to be changed togheter with Indomitable Rage, to make it a viable choice between Bloodletter and IBS.

    Punishing Charge: Decrease the base cooldown from 18s to 16s.

    Hidden Daggers: Decrease the base cooldown from 18s to 16s and increase magnitude from 100 to 300, and the decrease the surprise attack by 100.
    *Feedback: It would be a total of 400 magnitude with 15s cooldown at endgame, easier to use than other AoE powers like Mighty Leap and Not So Fast, but lower magnitude than the two others, making it some sort of competive as being Range and a Cone AoE, while the others are more like melee and 180 degree.

    Roar: Increase the magnitude from 100, to 350.
    *Feedback: this makes it a viable choice, as Roar offers a slight buff to Rage when being used, as well as making it not cut short in damage to other powers. Building Rage faster, is also a DPS increasement.

    BattleFury: it needs the base cooldown decreased to 20s, making it on my end game toon a 18s Cooldown Power, it also needs to remove the penalty of making the buff less effective, leaving it to a personal buff of 10% and a group buff of 5% with a duration of 10s and a cooldown of 18s.
    *Feedback: this means that it can be usefull, when looking in ACT/Combat log we can see that overall damage done by any of the encounters that is above 500 magnitude it sums a overall dmg of above 10%, this Battle Fury selfbuff togheter with the group buff should cover for around 10% normal encounter. That is why I think it needs the penalty removed and decrease the cooldown, to make it a power to compete with the powers.
    Axe Storm: Cast time needs to be decreased from 2s to 1s and Magnitude increased from 300 to 450.

    Class Feat:
    *Feedback Raging Strike: I would suggest it should increase damage dealt while in BattleRage for a better synergy, similar to the feat Indomitable Rage, that would be better if magnitude is increased while in Rage.


    This is pretty much what I would want from the Blademaster, and I think it will make a complete class, with no further tweaking in the future. The changes are for both PvE and PVP taken in mind, and I also take in mind that you might not be able to get them on Live in time, but please do consider them.


    Now I would like to talk abit about Sentinel, considering the changes done on preview to it:
    Sentinel:
    At-wills
    • Challenger's Slash: Reduced activate times to .65/.55/.8 down from .75/.65/1.05
    o Reduced Unstoppable activate times to .35/.25/.45 down from .45/.35/.55
    *Feedback: I would like to see the magnitude increased from 20, to 40.

    Encounters
    • Come and Get It: Reduced cooldown from 18 seconds to 15 seconds.
    • Enduring Shout: Increased the maximum hitpoints granted from 10% to 20%.
    Feats
    • Extended Unstoppable: Changed to Rage and Rally.
    • Rage and Rally: Unstoppable increases threat generated by your attacks. When Unstoppable ends, recover stamina based on the amount of Rage consumed, up to a maximum of 40%.

    Furious Reaction: When your block is broken, you generate 15 Rage and your damage is increased by 5% for 20s. This effect may not occur if you are already under the effect of Furious Reaction.
    *Feedback: with the changes done to Stamina will make this Class Feature to be counter productive, it is already difficult to activate it, as rarely we get drained to 0% Stamina, could you please make the activation time for this class feature from 0% Stamina, to 25% Stamina? this way it will make it easier to procc and be used.
    Overall the TANK performs quite well, I am happy with it.

    Conclusion:
    While there are many more changes I would like to propose, I'll stop here and wait for your response. The main focus of my suggestion is to buff up underused powers and balance the feats against each other so that every choice makes a difference which hopefully creates variety within the class.
    Thank you for reading and I hope to hear from you soon ^_^.


  • nordramor#3931 nordramor Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    Sentinel Tank

    Barbs had two relative problems to address; durability (against tankbuster attacks) and single-target sustained threat (against bosses that often use tankbusters).

    Changes to Enduring Shout and Mighty Vitality should help with durability, but I don't see any changes targeted at sustained single-target threat.
    • Challenger's Slash - Speed change might give it more Threat-Per-Second (TPS) than Sure Strike, but without Threat Magnitudes / Multipliers, we won't know the relative difference. Right now, Sure Strike is roughly about the same TPS as Challenger's Slash, but much higher DPS, so it's going to take some convincing evidence that Challenger's Slash is higher TPS than Sure Strike against single targets.
    • Rage and Rally - Great for trash / aoe clears, but Unstoppable will still be a huge liability on bosses that use non-dodgeable tankbusters. Don't see this changing that situation much, as you need max Stamina for tankbusters, whenever they come up.
    • Bloodletter - The only actual single-target TPS increase appears to be... Bloodletter gaining +~120 magnitude. That's great, but it's pretty tiny improvement in the big scheme.
    Fighters have Shield Toss + Shieldthrower with Anvil of Doom + Anvil of Challenge and Enforced Threat on deck if they lose aggro.

    Sentinels have Bloodletter/IBS with Punishing Charge + Challenger's Charge and Come and Get it on deck.

    Magnitude-per-second alone, Shield Toss and Anvil crush Bloodletter and Punishing Charge. Threat-Per-Second, they're also probably crushing them, depending on Shieldthrower's added multiplier. I wouldn't expect true parity (due to Punishing Charge also being a sweet charge), but everything about Sentinel single-target threat just appears to be 'worse than Fighter' and also 'lacking the spammable taunts of Pallies as fallback'.
    Post edited by nordramor#3931 on
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    > @sa1985666#4952 said:
    > Hello joebot,
    >
    > I would like to start with a bug that affects 1 feat and class feat of the DPS path, which hinders the class balancing for the Barbarian – Blademaster as a whole:
    >
    > That bug has been reported several times by me, but I am not sure if it got fixed internally or not:
    > class feature: Impatiance and feat: Brutal Critical are similar abilities that increases the gain of Rage, while doing so with BattleRage active it creates a bug which shortens down the BattleRage active time. As I recorded the bug while fighting Dummyes aswell as fighting Bel in the Heroic Encounter.
    >
    >
    >
    > Impatiance class feat, in combat against Bel.. clearly not working ...
    > The purpose of fixing this Bug would make the choices of picking Brutal Critical and Escalating Rage, as viable choices. Currently there is only 1 single set of Feats that are performing better, but because of this bug being around the other set of feats are not viable.
    >
    > As you can see when picking the last tier 5 feats between Escalating Rage and Relentless BattleRage, it tells us how the class would be played.
    > Picking Relentless BattleRage, means that you are building Rage faster, but keeping BattleRage at a shorter Duration, which means that you use BattleRage more often, but the duration is shorter.
    > Picking Escalating Rage, means that you are building Rage slower, but But BattleRage drains also slower, which means that you use BattleRage less often, but it’s duration is longer.
    >
    > Both situations look like they are opposed to eachother, which creates a different style, like the predecessor Balanced wanted originally of the class, but to make the choice of Escalating Rage to be viable, we firstly need to fix the bug shown in the video. This way it opens 2 viable tier5 choices, aswell as tier3 choices, making 2 viable choices to pick, aslong as the bug exists, these choices are less desirable.
    > The result of this change will allow me to make another build which uses Escalating Rage. While the bug is still there I will be always be punished by Escalating Rage stun, because the bug keeps cuttin short BattleRage when it reaches 50% of it, because of that I cannot counter the stun of Escalating Rage. I would also like to mention that decreasing the stacks of Escalating Rage from 10x to 5x, can make a more desirable choice, and helping with the Build that can be viable.
    > All I am sayin is that I would like to have choices that can make Barbarian to be played in different situations or pieces of content, which creates diversty and different playstyles, and I belive this was the intention of the first developer that made the changes in module 16.
    > • Rage: Increased generation from at-wills and encounter powers.
    > Encounters
    > • Bloodletter: Increase magnitude from 400 to 520
    > At-wills
    > • Brash Strike: Increase magnitude from 90 to 110
    > o Reduced activate times to .75/.9/.9 down from .9/1.1/1.1
    > o Reduced Unstoppable activate times to .35/.45/.45 down from .53/.63/.63
    > *Feedback: I consider that doing this change, makes Brash Strike outshine all the other at-wills, the damage tested currently is 3x higher than Relentless Slash, this means that it is 3x Times higher than Sure Strike aswell, and on another league for Bounding Slam.
    > The Increasement in magnitude and fixing the animation by reducing it, it’s 2 in 1 buff . Fixing the animation would’ve problably been enough of a buff. Now the discrepancy between the 3x Single Targets at-wills, is really huge. I would like if you can take a look at the Sure Strike, Bounding Slam and Brash Strike, to even up this difference, I understand that Sentinel access to Sure Strike and Bounding Slam, but I wouldn’t be concerned that if you increase the magnitude by 10-20 for Surestrike and Bounding Slam, will affect Sentinel to overperform in Damage. So I would encourage you to put these 3x ST atwills at a closer discrepancy.
    > I would want to add that I play a Sentinel with no issue to TANK or keep aggro, and I have 150.000 Power, and 130.000 Combat Advantage, and I still can’t make at-wills reach the potential of a Blademaster. So increasing these at-wills damage shouldn’t oppose a problem.
    > o Encounters
    > • Frenzy: Increase magnitude from 750 to 975
    > o Reduced cooldown from 18 seconds to 16 seconds
    > Feats
    > • Bloodspiller: Reduces the cooldown of Bloodletter by 3 seconds.
    > *Feedback: This feat change makes the other choice Indomitable Rage less desirable, it was already less desirable, as Barbarian playstyle doesn’t let him have 100% Rage without using BattleRage, but now it’s making it look completely not a choice, neither for PvP or PvE, as none of these playstyles can make it viable. So I would like to see how this Feat can be changed to be on par with the other.
    > One of the suggestions would be that while in BattleRage the Indomitable Rage increases the Indomitable Battle Strike by 400 Magnitude. Making it a viable choice.
    > So leaving the following changes that were done on preview it affects the Barbarian powers as a whole, creating a disruptive difference between AoE powers, Single Target powers, and clearly making a huge difference in Feat choices, limiting playstyles as a whole, for both PvE and PVP.
    >
    > All I am tryin to point out is that the buffs alone will make the other Powers less desirable as a choice, the predecessor before you, Balanced, had a good grasp of magnitude and cooldown of each power and their performance when it comes to AoE in a cone, AoE as a 180degree, AoE melee and AoE from distance, as well as for Single Target powers.
    >
    > So I am here requesting through feedback for adjusting some powers magnitudes and cooldowns and cast times. Because of the increasment of Single Target Powers and decrease of their cooldowns alone, it boosts the damage of Barbarian, making Single Target Powers to overshadow the AoE Powers, this is why I would encourage you to do the following changes, I am not goin to refer always to the base cooldowns, because my toon is endgame, so I would refer to the cooldowns that I have on preview with a endgame toon, unless I specifically mention base cooldown:
    >
    > Not So fast: Magnitude increased from 180 to 250.
    > *Feedback: when using Not so fast, in synergy with the Feat: Relentless Speed, we can use 3x Not So Fasts in a 11s Cooldown, so we can guess that 3x 250 = 750 magnitude, which it can compete with a Single Target Power that doesn’t require a combination of Two Powers, basically 750 Magnitude will help AoE Setup to maintain itself as a AoE setup, and not replace Not So Fast with a easier encounter like Frenzy that is 975 magnitude, with 15s cooldown. So this adjustment is a must, to preserve AoE.
    > Indomitable Battle Strike: it needs something to be changed togheter with Indomitable Rage, to make it a viable choice between Bloodletter and IBS.
    >
    > Punishing Charge: Decrease the base cooldown from 18s to 16s.
    >
    > Hidden Daggers: Decrease the base cooldown from 18s to 16s and increase magnitude from 100 to 300, and the decrease the surprise attack by 100.
    > *Feedback: It would be a total of 400 magnitude with 15s cooldown at endgame, easier to use than other AoE powers like Mighty Leap and Not So Fast, but lower magnitude than the two others, making it some sort of competive as being Range and a Cone AoE, while the others are more like melee and 180 degree.
    >
    > Roar: Increase the magnitude from 100, to 350.
    > *Feedback: this makes it a viable choice, as Roar offers a slight buff to Rage when being used, as well as making it not cut short in damage to other powers. Building Rage faster, is also a DPS increasement.
    >
    > BattleFury: it needs the base cooldown decreased to 20s, making it on my end game toon a 18s Cooldown Power, it also needs to remove the penalty of making the buff less effective, leaving it to a personal buff of 10% and a group buff of 5% with a duration of 10s and a cooldown of 18s.
    > *Feedback: this means that it can be usefull, when looking in ACT/Combat log we can see that overall damage done by any of the encounters that is above 500 magnitude it sums a overall dmg of above 10%, this Battle Fury selfbuff togheter with the group buff should cover for around 10% normal encounter. That is why I think it needs the penalty removed and decrease the cooldown, to make it a power to compete with the powers.
    > Axe Storm: Cast time needs to be decreased from 2s to 1s and Magnitude increased from 300 to 450.
    >
    > Class Feat:
    > *Feedback Raging Strike: I would suggest it should increase damage dealt while in BattleRage for a better synergy, similar to the feat Indomitable Rage, that would be better if magnitude is increased while in Rage.
    >
    >
    > This is pretty much what I would want from the Blademaster, and I think it will make a complete class, with no further tweaking in the future. The changes are for both PvE and PVP taken in mind, and I also take in mind that you might not be able to get them on Live in time, but please do consider them.
    >
    >
    > Now I would like to talk abit about Sentinel, considering the changes done on preview to it:
    > Sentinel:
    > At-wills
    > • Challenger's Slash: Reduced activate times to .65/.55/.8 down from .75/.65/1.05
    > o Reduced Unstoppable activate times to .35/.25/.45 down from .45/.35/.55
    > *Feedback: I would like to see the magnitude increased from 20, to 40.
    >
    > Encounters
    > • Come and Get It: Reduced cooldown from 18 seconds to 15 seconds.
    > • Enduring Shout: Increased the maximum hitpoints granted from 10% to 20%.
    > Feats
    > • Extended Unstoppable: Changed to Rage and Rally.
    > • Rage and Rally: Unstoppable increases threat generated by your attacks. When Unstoppable ends, recover stamina based on the amount of Rage consumed, up to a maximum of 40%.
    >
    > Furious Reaction: When your block is broken, you generate 15 Rage and your damage is increased by 5% for 20s. This effect may not occur if you are already under the effect of Furious Reaction.
    > *Feedback: with the changes done to Stamina will make this Class Feature to be counter productive, it is already difficult to activate it, as rarely we get drained to 0% Stamina, could you please make the activation time for this class feature from 0% Stamina, to 25% Stamina? this way it will make it easier to procc and be used.
    > Overall the TANK performs quite well, I am happy with it.
    >
    > Conclusion:
    > While there are many more changes I would like to propose, I'll stop here and wait for your response. The main focus of my suggestion is to buff up underused powers and balance the feats against each other so that every choice makes a difference which hopefully creates variety within the class.
    > Thank you for reading and I hope to hear from you soon ^_^.

    That's great and all but remember that right now our aoe at will is better at single target than everything else.
    Brash strike should stay as is. Otherwise Barbie single target is going down the toilet again.
    Let's first give barbies something viable then worry about having variation
  • sekosek#5740 sekosek Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    I wrote it under patch notes, but i will write it here aswell.



    Barbarian
    Sentinel

    • Unstoppable
      • The block from Sentinel’s Unstoppable is now correctly set to 50% of the player’s maximum hp.
    I dont understand this change. You were supposed to give some love to Sentinel this mod. But with this change Sentinel will be even in a worse place compared to mod18. We already lack tankiness and aggro. High hp with high stamina was the only good thing about Unstoppable.

    Right now opening Unstopabble nerfs us, instead of buff. It blocks the same amount of normal block, so why would we use it? It does not provide damage resistance like in Blademaster, it does not provide party buff, it does not give anything useful. Attack speed is not something for tanks. And on top of that, it reduces stamina gain, and with auto block you end up with no stamina. Once you open Unstoppable, you gotta wait until it ends to rebuild stamina, while gaining no bonuses meanwhile. It will be 99% of the time useless.

    Sentinel has no Damage resistance, has no stamina regen power, has no party protection and our aggro is worse compared to other two, and we cant even control our tab mechanic, once its open we have to wait until its over. So actually not opening at all gives better control and better rotation.
    New added feat was a good idea, but now since opening Unstoppable basicly gives us nothing, and actually nerfs us, it seems like feat is not gonna be that useful anyways.

    Both op and gf has damage resistance resources, party protections, stamina regeneration powers and 75% hp stamina pool with their mechanics. Right now Sentinel basicly lacks every single item in this list. Sentinel was already in a worse place compared to other tanks. Now this makes Sentinel the worst tank by far.
  • sekosek#5740 sekosek Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    I wrote it under patch notes, but i will write here aswell.



    Barbarian
    Sentinel

    • Unstoppable
      • The block from Sentinel’s Unstoppable is now correctly set to 50% of the player’s maximum hp.
    I dont understand this change. You were supposed to give some love to Sentinel this mod. But with this change Sentinel will be even in a worse place compared to mod18. We already lack tankiness and aggro. High hp with high stamina was the only good thing about Unstoppable.

    Right now opening Unstopabble nerfs us, instead of buff. It blocks the same amount of normal block, so why would we use it? It does not provide damage resistance like in Blademaster, it does not provide party buff, it does not give anything useful. Attack speed is not something for tanks. And on top of that, it reduces stamina gain, and with auto block you end up with no stamina. Once you open Unstoppable, you gotta wait until it ends to rebuild stamina, while gaining no bonuses meanwhile. It will be 99% of the time useless.

    Sentinel has no Damage resistance, has no stamina regen power, has no party protection and our aggro is worse compared to other two, and we cant even control our tab mechanic, once its open we have to wait until its over. So actually not opening at all gives better control and better rotation.
    New added feat was a good idea, but now since opening Unstoppable basicly gives us nothing, and actually nerfs us, it seems like feat is not gonna be that useful anyways.

    Both op and gf has damage resistance resources, party protections, stamina regeneration powers and 75% hp stamina pool with their mechanics. Right now Sentinel basicly lacks every single item in this list. Sentinel was already in a worse place compared to other tanks. Now this makes Sentinel the worst tank by far.
  • xander#0631 xander Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    just some correction i'd like to do :
    on paladin 'divine palisade' is for tab+shift, the tab mechanics is called 'divine champion' and increase the power of auras, and block 50% of the incoming damage using stamina and give control immunity; and we get 75% of our hp in the shield divine champion and palisade with a feat (unyelding champion) not as base.

    for the other thing i don't play a barbarian tank so i can't say anything.
    reality is what most recognize as true
  • the1truehunterthe1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    @joebot#9387 The purpose of the forum is to get in touch with your players, more or less experienced. When they have the same feedback on a subject regarding a problem they encounter it means something may be wrong and shoud be investigated and fixed/rebuilded in a way that will please your customers. We didn`t ask for immortality but for the God sake you guys are taking the strange decision and I realy wonder what kind of people test your products and provide you the feedback that lead to these decisions. When I spoke about Sentinel`s problems I took in cosideration the fact that I am not the only one with this kind of problem and it is not strictly related with my play style. It is a class mechanic problem that many people encounter. We told you that our class has a threat generation issue. What you don t understand is for example: during Zariel second phase when you are supposed to switch aggro from a shadow to another, usually from blue to red one, there will be 6 hdps with will deal an outrageous amount of damage in a short period of time. Once they cast their artifacts/mounts/dailyes you won t have time to build enough threat to be able to maintain aggro. If you lose it you won t be able to retake it for the next 17 seconds until the next Punishing is ready. Why? Because none of our skills can build enough threat to regain the aggro. Starting with punishing is a must because you will lose aggro right away and you won t have enough time to switch aggro between shadows if you use any other encounter. I can t beg everytime to dps to stop dps-ing for few seconds to let me get enough threat so we can continue our fight. It is penible and many of them don t understand the tank mechanics. You put some threat generation on Unstoppable, but I won t be unstoppable at the start of the battle agaist Zariel or Halaster. We are forced to use tanner ring and our daily always from the begining otherwise we will lose aggro if we are not using two top threat placers *punishing and come and get it*. The things people mentioned in their comments are true regarding Sentinels. I don t want to give up on Sentinel and move back to Blademaster only just because I am always blamed I can t keep aggro. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO START A FIGHT WITHOUT USING MY DAILY TO PROC MY TANNER RING. Please! I really understand the pression we put on your shoulders and the lack of time you have to give the best result for each problem but let us help you to help us. Thank you!
  • sunshinehappy#2439 sunshinehappy Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    Does anyone know how to quantify how much threat increase we get from the following sources: Frustrating Slash, Leap Into Action, Threatening Presence, Challenger's Slash, Primal Fury
    For all i know one is worth 3 and another is worth 3,000,000,000,000,000
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,299 Arc User

    Last buffs to dps barbarians are a bit too strong. Barbarians agree but they are too lazy to post themselves on forums, so I do.

    or possibly banned... you know who you are...

    Does anyone know how to quantify how much threat increase we get from the following sources: Frustrating Slash, Leap Into Action, Threatening Presence, Challenger's Slash, Primal Fury


    For all i know one is worth 3 and another is worth 3,000,000,000,000,000

    On the assumption that the effects have the same mathematical function as the GF's ones:

    Frustrating Slash/Leap/Presence: 20% Global aggro generation increase (ie, multiply all attack aggro by 1.2x for each source)

    Challenger Slash/Primal Fury: The attack itself generates 700% more aggro than an equivalent damage attack (ie, these specific attacks generate 8x as much aggro, 100% for normal and add 700% for 8x generation).

    Assuming that the aggro bonuses are the same as GF, Challenger's Slash only generates ~2.5x as much single target aggro as Sure Strike (Sure Strike has double the base damage of Challenger's Slash and casts ~twice as fast).

  • the1truehunterthe1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    Sentinel: Sure Strike doesn t build enough Action Points while in combat.
    Sentinel: If you lose aggro, your encounters won t build enough threat unless you use Punishing Charge/Come and get it. Because of this particular reason you are forced to enter in combat using daily/ibs/punishing to be able to build enough threat. However if the dps is high enough, if you stop the atack for few seconds there is a high chance to lose the aggro and you won`t be able to take it back for the next 17 seconds. With the new updates the maintaining may be easyer, but doesn t resolve the problem where you must build the aggro at the begining of the fight. The place where I encounter this problem the most is during phase 2 in Zariel trial when we have to switch aggro between Shadows. I am dependent by Tanner`s Ring bonus to be able to hit hard enough and get the threat in place.
    Savage Advance doesn`t provide enough damage reduction for party compared with other tanks.


    Just a quick note as a point of reference. I am not new to this game and I have reasons to complain when I spent tens of millions of Ad to build my Tank. I love this class and I love playing as sentinel. I beg you to review this feedback, compare with others and come to a conclusion.


    This is how my tank looks at this point without guild boons.


  • malistaire#9098 malistaire Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    BUG

    With last night's update (6/23) the barb sentinel daily power, battle high, is giving less health than our encounter power enduring shout.

    Enduring shout says it increases your max HP by 20%, while battle high says it increases your max HP by 35%. Currently Battle high is giving about half of what it was before the patch.

    This is my base HP:


    This is my HP using the encounter Enduring Shout:


    This is my HP using the daily BATTLE HIGH:


    This is my HP with both enduring shout and battle high:


    Based on the numbers, it seems that Battle High is only effecting our base HP and not our maximum HP.



  • malistaire#9098 malistaire Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    BUG

    Similar to the Battle High bug in my previous post, the class feature Might Vitality also is suffering from the same problem.

    Mighty Vitality says: Increase your maximum hit points by 10% and decrease your power by 5%.

    My base HP:


    My HP with the Mighty Vitality class feat:


    The net difference between these two is about 67,000 HP. That is clearly not a 10% increase to my maximum hit points. Mighty Vitality is giving 7% additional HP in exchange for 5% power.




  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    Oh for HAMSTER sake did they just nerf barbies before they even got good?
    Patch notes:

    Barbarian: Any
    Determination can no longer incorrectly be gained outside of combat.
    Barbarian: Blademaster
    Mechanics
    Battlerage: Now increases damage done by 20%
    Feats
    Relentless Battlerage: Now decreases Battlerage damage to 14%
    Barbarian: Sentinel
    At-wills
    Challenger's Slash: Reduced activate times to .65/.55/.8 down from .75/.65/1.05
    Reduced Unstoppable activate times to .35/.25/.45 down from .45/.35/.55
    Encounters
    Come and Get It: Reduced cooldown from 18 seconds to 15 seconds.
    Enduring Shout: Increased the maximum hitpoints granted from 10% to 20%.
    Mechanics
    Rage: Increased generation from at-wills and encounter powers.
    Unstoppable: The block from Sentinel’s Unstoppable is now correctly set to 50% of the player’s maximum hp.
    Feats
    Extended Unstoppable: Come and get it now grants the effect of Extended Unstoppable for 10 seconds, causing the effect of Unstoppable to persist for an additional 4 seconds.
    NEW Rage and Rally: Unstoppable increases threat generated by your attacks. When Unstoppable ends, recover stamina based on the amount of Rage consumed, up to a maximum of 40%.


    No magnitude increase? On literally ALL of our powers that were supposed to get buffed?

    Are you shitting me? HAMSTER this. Genuinely, why would you give a glimmer of god damned hope to have a class that performs good only to make it HAMSTER in the next move?


    Are you afraid of success? Or making a good game? God damn.
  • evemjevemj Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    Either the patch notes don't reflect the changes dropping today or the changes posted on the forums will be put in the build later.
    We'll see when the mod hits the fan.
  • cellablockcellablock Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    evemj said:

    Either the patch notes don't reflect the changes dropping today or the changes posted on the forums will be put in the build later.
    We'll see when the mod hits the fan.

    the changes are in the build just someone forgot to add them in the patch notes which i dont mind
  • reeper#9973 reeper Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    The patch notes had mod 18 class balances in there mainly
  • the1truehunterthe1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 211 Arc User
    @joebot#9387 Sentinels still doesn`t generate enough threat at the begining of the fights to be able to hold the aggro. Even with the new feat. The threat multipliers can t cover 5-10m hits in few seconds. I honestly don t know how multipliers works and I know that you guys cosider that Sentinels doesn`t have any problems but let me know how many times did you guys played Sentinel in Tower of the Mad Mage and Zariel, Infernal Citadel and succesfully completed one of them without having problems holding aggro no mater how much damage you deliver and what rotation do you use. Even with a perfect timing on the encounters, a Cleric`s Pod can take my aggro . I have 300 runs+ as solo tank in Tower of The Mad Mage. I love playing Sentinel but seems you have no interest in finding a better synergy in how things works regarding our class path.
  • the1truehunterthe1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 211 Arc User
    I tried all the new rings from m19. None of them helps with threat generation at the BEGINING OF THE FIGHT! I run always with hdps in party. We are not casual players. I can t beg them everytime to wait me to generate some aggro. This is not how things should work in my personal opinion.
  • reeper#9973 reeper Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    No class is even close to the DPS Clerics, even the new Celestial weapons suit them the best. Except for them all the other classes are much more balanced than before.
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 311 Arc User

    No class is even close to the DPS Clerics, even the new Celestial weapons suit them the best. Except for them all the other classes are much more balanced than before.

    I agree that current dps class balance is pretty good, except arbiters that can be miles ahead if played properly^^.
    I am sure they are thinking of nerfing DCs but they have to consider that many DCs don't understand their mechanics (like burning/radiant shifts) and are very weak.

    hmm, what do you suggest they do? old version was terrible and now at least closer to what it should be they solved a few basic problems(especially against bosses)

    The barbarians (played properly)have an edge over other dps classes , of course not by a huge amount compared to arbiters. Just a little bit, but I understand you are afraid of going through the nerf hammer if they touch again your class. I don't have anything particular to suggest, they should not have increased some magnitudes that much, but what is done is done for now. And if there was an urgent fix to do, it would be first on this selfkilling bloodletter :D

  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,299 Arc User
    edited July 2020

    Last buffs to dps barbarians are a bit too strong. Barbarians agree but they are too lazy to post themselves on forums, so I do.

    hmm, what do you suggest they do? old version was terrible and now at least closer to what it should be they solved a few basic problems(especially against bosses)
    As a whole, I would focus on improving class mechanics & making feats, passives, and making powers have a distinct purpose other than "pick which has the best numbers/cooldown".

    I would not advocate for increasing or decreasing numbers unless it would actually be a useful change how useful a power is, such as raising Challenger's Slash base damage to 35-40 mag (to help with out of Rage aggro generation that Barbie desperately needs).

    Increasing damage numbers really high It just means that you have good numbers to kill things with, not that you have much of a playstyle to work with.

    No class is even close to the DPS Clerics, even the new Celestial weapons suit them the best. Except for them all the other classes are much more balanced than before.

    I agree that current dps class balance is pretty good, except arbiters that can be miles ahead if played properly^^.
    I am sure they are thinking of nerfing DCs but they have to consider that many DCs don't understand their mechanics (like burning/radiant shifts) and are very weak.
    Arbiter is the strange case where the only thing that should be touched is their numbers (and maybe the ability to generate Perfect Balance out of combat).

    Arbiter has a functional playstyle and mechanics, the only thing overtuned about them is their base damage.

  • sa1985666#4952 sa1985666 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    hey:) what about the sentinel changes. do you need more feedback on improving aggro, survivability and group protection? thx for answering
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