Ridiculously Random drop rates

flecia#3114
flecia#3114 Member Posts: 53 Arc User
First I am not asking for super duper easy drops for everyone all the time. I get there should be some element of grind and effort and I support the idea of having to work to get rewards. (Id be right up there voting for some system that would not reward AFK's and leeches)
Yes we as players want to be challenged, but there needs to be incentive to complete your challenge. A 1/1000 chance at a item is simply not incentive. Random drop rates is not a challenge but an unfair and annoying grind.
At what point does grind vs luck become just flat out stupid?

It took me well over 200 insurges (others 500 of them later still no rod) to get the (battle)rod on my main (to which I think is a little much but would support this if it applied equally to all) while others got their rod after 10 or less. Its now June 12 and i have rolled for my dented rod everyday since the very first day that you could roll. First day i rolled 20 times (10 per char) and every day since I have rolled a minimum of 6 times (at least 3 per char) and have yet to get a Dented Rod on either char. Others got their dented rod on first day you could get it.
So I ask again, At what point does grind vs luck become just flat out stupid?

If you want to keep your players playing and enjoying the game their needs to be balance between the grind and fairness. If for example we manage to gear up and finish a dungeon (lomm, ic, tomm whatever works) there should be a significant guaranteed reward for finishing the dungeon, not having to grind the dungeon 100 times for a belt set piece or weapon(not that i use the IC set ... but i know many do). Why would i bother running any of these dungeons if i know that there is nothing at the end of it that makes it worth my time? And just to rub salt in the RNG wound some lucky guy will get the belt (or whatever piece) the first run, while someone else will take 50+ runs. (For Tomm weapons its a different system than RNG luck and that is fine but it still requires running the dungeon more times than anyone really wants to). I have yet to bother running ToMM because its just not worth the effort.... even the weapons which are the only reason to bother are not that much better than burnished. The new mod 19 weapons will be more than good enough for me to not bother with ToMM.

Bottom line here is that yes we want to challenged.... no we don't want to grind on some rare drop roll for which your still grinding it out 3 weeks later and your buddy its flashing everyday in your face cause he got lucky the first day (or posting it on AH for some stupid AD amount).











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Comments

  • b4t1b4t
    b4t1b4t Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    I believe this issue has been part of the game for along long time. Each mod it becomes more of an issue. Knowing this game has been going this long with the same issue I really do not see this issue being fixed.
    I also believe many people have stated something around the same lines and still nothing has been done about this issue.
    The drops is luck and that luck is bad which turns into a grind fest where one may get lucky but maybe not.
  • flecia#3114
    flecia#3114 Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    b4t1b4t said:

    I believe this issue has been part of the game for along long time. Each mod it becomes more of an issue. Knowing this game has been going this long with the same issue I really do not see this issue being fixed.
    I also believe many people have stated something around the same lines and still nothing has been done about this issue.
    The drops is luck and that luck is bad which turns into a grind fest where one may get lucky but maybe not.

    Being a part of game a long time does not make it right. If you want it to change then voice your opinion. IF you enjoy grinding 500 insurgs, or 100 ICs with nothing to show for it (while your guildmate continually flashes his battle rod instead of actually using it) then remain status quo.
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,420 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    I play 6 characters and none of them got the rod except the one who has the least offensive power and the least times I played him in insurgency. It was my Paladin and I don't know how he got it. I said that many times, this game can read your mind. If you want it, it won't give it to you.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • namelesshero347
    namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    These purely RNG-gated chase items are what keeps some people in the game spending insane amount of time. I never go after them. If there is no upper-bound in the grind or can't be purchased in the AH, I don't bother with the item. Thankfully, there are only a few such items in the game. And they are more of a luxury or status items. Not having them does not mean your build is not viable.

    As for the insurgency boss rod, I ran insurgencies on 5 toons just to do the absorption thingy for the mythic necklace (I usually leave after hitting the daily limit). I got the rod drop on one toon. So the drop rate doesn't seem too low. But it is still low enough that there is probably that you may never get it no matter how many times you are able to run it.
  • aixis2000
    aixis2000 Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    to me worn metal rod droprate seems ok but I think they f...d up the droprate for the rod that Bel drops...endless tries but never anything more than some AD +RP 5 Seals and 5 Secrets...the whole Rage of Bel episode is just HAMSTER and if u have chain of scales just dont bother...
  • flecia#3114
    flecia#3114 Member Posts: 53 Arc User

    These purely RNG-gated chase items are what keeps some people in the game spending insane amount of time. I never go after them. If there is no upper-bound in the grind or can't be purchased in the AH, I don't bother with the item. Thankfully, there are only a few such items in the game. And they are more of a luxury or status items. Not having them does not mean your build is not viable.

    As for the insurgency boss rod, I ran insurgencies on 5 toons just to do the absorption thingy for the mythic necklace (I usually leave after hitting the daily limit). I got the rod drop on one toon. So the drop rate doesn't seem too low. But it is still low enough that there is probably that you may never get it no matter how many times you are able to run it.

    No this RNG grind is not what keeps people in the game. I have played many MMO's the last one before this being Runes of Magic. Not one MMO i have ever played has this kind of crappy random reward system. Upon dungeon completion there was always a guaranteed item (it my not be for your class and you had to roll with your party but it still dropped).

    This game has a lot of potential and I enjoy my class and the leveling system as a whole much more then I did RoM and that is what keep me here (aside from the lack of other MMO options). What made me leave RoM was that my class was broken for 3 years and i was tired of filing reports and getting no feedback.

  • deanski07
    deanski07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 74 Arc User
    Yes i agree the RNG can really suck big time.I have opened at least 70 boxes to get the dented metal rod,and the most loot i have obtained is a crappy brilliant diamond.Today a person i know was blathering how they got a dented metal rod AND a companion after opening only 11 boxes.......,it just makes me wanna be sick all over this game.Maybe it should be changed to something like after buying 80 boxes you are guaranteed to receive it?
  • b4t1b4t
    b4t1b4t Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    All I am trying to say is that this same topic has been discussed many times on these forums. Each person voiced their opinions and concerns and each mod the same issues are present. Nothing has changed on that part of the game for as long as the game has been out.
    I personally do not see it changing. I my self hated this part of the game as well. The drop rates and bad luck really does suck and the grind its just bad.
    However I do not see any thing changing no matter how many people voice on the topic. It just how it is.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    I still remember multiple thousands of CNs without a wand of Orcus. Fun times for a barely 2.2k gwf at the time.
  • mythdemeanour
    mythdemeanour Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    I just wish there was a guaranteed drop after X attempts along with the RNG. Even if the number was quite high, it would still give a player something to strive for. Keeping the RNG so that if you are one of the lucky few you would get it easier. But if like me you were born under a curse then you would still have some minor hope.

    Oh and a 12+ hour wait is unacceptable even if the drop rate was increased!

    If this is how they keep the populace playing, I got news for Cryptic that many of my guildies just log out for a few hours at a time then log in just to check if Bal is up yet.
  • keru#9279
    keru#9279 Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    > @plasticbat said:
    > I play 6 characters and none of them got the rod except the one who has the least offensive power and the least times I played him in insurgency. It was my Paladin and I don't know how he got it. I said that many times, this game can read your mind. If you want it, it won't give it to you.

    Omg exactly my toughts yesterday.
    I got the rod 1st day try on a paladin too and it's not my main. Been trying since mod launch on my main Cleric and nothing. No rod. I just gave up on it.
  • xdavidep96
    xdavidep96 Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    About drop rates in the dungeons. I use to do lots of trial everyday (15/20 eveyday). At the end of the dungeon I ALWAYS reroll untill something valuable comes out. It's about 2 months, more than 900/1200 dg and thousands and thousands of reroll tokens. Do you want to know how many valuable items I got? 0... je**s, 0 items...
    I play neverwinter since 2013 and I use to know that after 50/60 dg i get 100% something valuable.
    Maybe you can understand where I am going...
    You can't find valuable to sell to the AH? Oh, look there is a 30% discount for a 5x pack of rank 15...
  • raymark#0909
    raymark#0909 Member Posts: 21 Arc User

    About drop rates in the dungeons. I use to do lots of trial everyday (15/20 eveyday). At the end of the dungeon I ALWAYS reroll untill something valuable comes out. It's about 2 months, more than 900/1200 dg and thousands and thousands of reroll tokens. Do you want to know how many valuable items I got? 0... je**s, 0 items...
    I play neverwinter since 2013 and I use to know that after 50/60 dg i get 100% something valuable.
    Maybe you can understand where I am going...
    You can't find valuable to sell to the AH? Oh, look there is a 30% discount for a 5x pack of rank 15...

    Exactly. Waste AD on rolls do 50+ dungeons (in particular longer ones) and have nothing to show for it.

    It kind of sad that more players would rather farm juma bags and run codg than bother to run IC or Tomm. Not because we can not .. but rather the time/reward is far more worth it. Juma bags give more useful stuff then IC. Codg runs much cleaner and faster and give the same HAMSTER luck on rolls (if anything i have better luck getting stuff in codg) at dungeons end. It even gives enchant 6's more often then you will get in IC. If not for the fact new mod is coming out I might dabble in ToMM for the weapons, but at this point its not worth my time. The map hunt weapons are more than good enough in mod 19. Heck burnished is more than good enough.



  • blargskull
    blargskull Member Posts: 512 Arc User
    There is a forum that does drop rate research on this subject. I am not allowed to mention the forum's name or link here or my post will be removed. The drop rate for a legendary mount is about the same as winning the daily 3 in your local quick pick. Don't hold your breath on seeing that pop out of a chest unless you are opening thousands lock boxes. The random number generator has been discussed. Many of us can assure you the percentile odds is true but their in house generator hits in streaks. If the value says 30% chance you think 3 chances in 10, the most I need to go through will be 9 to 12. Because of the long "winning streaks" the generator has a larger run of losers. A few players claim you can beat the system by waiting for multiple pop ups about winners of the orange mount and start hammering on all yours. I can't say this is true or false, I never tested it. The random number generator is on the server side software and not within the client itself. They do that to keep us honest. With any online casino the house always wins and this one is no different.

    Just killing time...
  • raymark#0909
    raymark#0909 Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    And yet another example ... maps for the Legion Gear in the new zone. Here I am grinding away map after map while some already have the full set and other have 1 piece. I can not say how hard some of those people are farming but it cant be much more than I am trying. I have a feeling that 3 weeks from now there will still be people grinding away trying for the set while like I said earlier some already have the set in 1-2 days.
  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,450 Arc User
    The joys of RNG: so long as there is only "a chance" to get something there is also the chance you will never get it.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • hexngone#5489
    hexngone#5489 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    If you want to enjoy this game, play it very slowly. It takes between 9 months and 2 years for most of the major bugs to be 'fixed/balanced/removed' from the game. If your efforts are focused on a part of the game that is 'old', things will mostly work, prices will be reasonable, and (if you bother to equip the lower level/legacy/bounty outfit) you can enjoy the areas/dungeons/campaigns as they were originally intended without much scaling.

    There are some glaring exceptions (can you say drop rate for 100 units of a substance in Elemental Evil that comes from doing the HEs. The RNG is so bad, and only 2 units drop when they do, that everyone just ignores the quest and the HEs because of it), but most have been fixed.

    And if you wait long enough, Cryptic will give us a third R15 Bonding stone and you will have saved all that AD/Zen because you are still doing content that doesn't require the R15s .... maybe I'll unpack my Xuna from Jubilee V/2018 next month...

    Just one way to play...
  • thany#4351
    thany#4351 Member Posts: 250 Arc User

    And yet another example ... maps for the Legion Gear in the new zone. Here I am grinding away map after map while some already have the full set and other have 1 piece. I can not say how hard some of those people are farming but it cant be much more than I am trying. I have a feeling that 3 weeks from now there will still be people grinding away trying for the set while like I said earlier some already have the set in 1-2 days.

    Well you're "lucky one". Yesterday i have been killing mobs for 4 hours. Not even one treasure map. Well...
  • raymark#0909
    raymark#0909 Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    So days later basicly putting life on hold farming maps trying to get my weapons. Id say at least 200 maps and so far I am lucky enough to have my offhand. That is not even getting into the issues that some are having getting maps at all. Am I supposed to quit my job and work full time grinding to get anything useful?

    And yet we grind and farm while there are more than a few that have the full set already (probably doing little to no farming i cant say for sure). I know of one that claims to have rolled his main hand already 3 times (but not his offhand).

    I appreciate that I am lucky to at least have my offhand, but I have MORE then grinded my azz of to have at least that.
    I appreciate that there are some that work just as hard as I have that have nothing to show for, and that why this thread is here.

    This random drop rate system is unfair and discourages people from playing at all. Whether it is dungeons or Rods or Maps or whatever else.

  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited July 2020
    I personally think the neck belt and artifact drop rates are perfect. no there should be no participation reward. there should be that kind of grind. it keeps the content in circulation. however, other things like the rod were ridiculous. things you can buy are fine with a different level of rarity (and it's not 1/1000 on the artifact sets the ah was pretty much instantly flooded with them) things you cannot buy should be a little easier to get. I think it's probably fine now on the rods. I think it was just broken before.
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited July 2020

    If you want to enjoy this game, play it very slowly. It takes between 9 months and 2 years for most of the major bugs to be 'fixed/balanced/removed' from the game. If your efforts are focused on a part of the game that is 'old', things will mostly work, prices will be reasonable, and (if you bother to equip the lower level/legacy/bounty outfit) you can enjoy the areas/dungeons/campaigns as they were originally intended without much scaling.

    There are some glaring exceptions (can you say drop rate for 100 units of a substance in Elemental Evil that comes from doing the HEs. The RNG is so bad, and only 2 units drop when they do, that everyone just ignores the quest and the HEs because of it), but most have been fixed.

    And if you wait long enough, Cryptic will give us a third R15 Bonding stone and you will have saved all that AD/Zen because you are still doing content that doesn't require the R15s .... maybe I'll unpack my Xuna from Jubilee V/2018 next month...

    Just one way to play...

    this is true. if you aren't trying to play newest content you are absolutely fine in older gear. even the old orcus set is absolutely fine for old content (And even preferable afaik.) at this point in time there is zero reason to rush to end game. the newest dungeons/raids aren't all that and the stuff is affordable to buy on ah. and to gear up to the level to play the newest content is ridiculous even with the free stuff. although prices are far lower in general now. it's hard to tell newer players that but it's true. I'm so bored that I started a guild basically to help newer players. that's how little end game stuff is a draw atm.
  • raymark#0909
    raymark#0909 Member Posts: 21 Arc User

    I personally think the neck belt and artifact drop rates are perfect. no there should be no participation reward. there should be that kind of grind. it keeps the content in circulation. however, other things like the rod were ridiculous. things you can buy are fine with a different level of rarity (and it's not 1/1000 on the artifact sets the ah was pretty much instantly flooded with them) things you cannot buy should be a little easier to get. I think it's probably fine now on the rods. I think it was just broken before.

    No it really does not keep the grind in circulation. It discourages people from even bothering. Whether its dungeons or anything else. Why bother running IC when I could just wait 2 weeks and buy the stuff for dirt cheap? Well if I know I can get the gear I want without having to roll the dice that gives a me a reason to run IC for both me and my friends. (You are entitled to believe what you like of course and maybe it works for you but definitely not for me)

    I have read a few posts on other threads that probably should be posted here cause it exactly the same topic. Frustration about random drops. How the HECK can one person get both weapon and offhand in 10 or less maps? While others get nothing in 300+? while others can even get a map? There is NO justifiable answer for this. "It just the way RNG rolls" is nonsense.






  • highlyunstable
    highlyunstable Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 343 Arc User
    Farmed for 5 hrs... got 4 maps, which produced 4 Black opals. I average 10 maps per day in a 12 hrs farm and get 10 Black opals and hammers. I am all but done with this " Let's make them grind for days, weeks, maybe months with no real chance to achieve anything. What an awesome game. No real content... just run in circles and kill. I am seriously just bored to tears.
  • autumnwitch
    autumnwitch Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User

    Farmed for 5 hrs... got 4 maps, which produced 4 Black opals. I average 10 maps per day in a 12 hrs farm and get 10 Black opals and hammers. I am all but done with this " Let's make them grind for days, weeks, maybe months with no real chance to achieve anything. What an awesome game. No real content... just run in circles and kill. I am seriously just bored to tears.

    Sadly they are so understaffed now this grind and low rng in the new material is basically a way to keep people playing without having to continually create new content to keep people playing.

    And I think we better get used to it we want to keep playing.



    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • mythdemeanour
    mythdemeanour Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited July 2020

    Farmed for 5 hrs... got 4 maps, which produced 4 Black opals. I average 10 maps per day in a 12 hrs farm and get 10 Black opals and hammers. I am all but done with this " Let's make them grind for days, weeks, maybe months with no real chance to achieve anything. What an awesome game. No real content... just run in circles and kill. I am seriously just bored to tears.

    Sadly they are so understaffed now this grind and low rng in the new material is basically a way to keep people playing without having to continually create new content to keep people playing.

    And I think we better get used to it we want to keep playing.

    I don't do Bel anymore and gave up on getting that rod piece. after over 200 solo runs. I only do the new area once a week per character for the weekly too. I have quite the bit of time on my vip, but if my history has told me anything I will most likely give up eventually and take the loss. I am currently playing another game more (No Man's Sky) simply because i forgot what being rewarded for my work was all about without the need for all the hoops..

    Bottom line is if this is the way to keep people in the game they have Vastly misread the majority of casual players. The hardcore can stay if they like, it matters not to me at this point, as I learned long ago that I was not, nor ever would be a member of the "IN" crowd.

    Edit: clarity
  • aixis2000
    aixis2000 Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited July 2020
    I also gave up on that grind sh... I did it with 6 toons...4 stuck with purple and 2 have a legendary box. I think the way u get it and how low the drop rate - this is one of the worst things they ever implemented in the game so far...
  • flecia#3114
    flecia#3114 Member Posts: 53 Arc User

    So far I opened too many chest to count (mean no disrepect to those having issues getting chests). I have gotten enough of those Forksaken Gears (helm, boots, chest, gloves) to build an entire family of alts. At least 10 of each. I have gotten every pant and shirt from Spacedocks imaginable (not sure how space and hell are connected such that this loot should even be in the chest loot). I have gotten enough blue green purple HAMSTER rings to fill in my army above.

    To date I have rolled 1 offhand (not even duplicate simple 1 weapon period).
    For those that have the full set since first day or with only opening 4 chests TOTAL i say KMA.
    This is how well this drop rate system works.
  • sandukutupu
    sandukutupu Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User
    This reminds me, in about 3 months the Liars Masquerade will have the witch broom mount again. Unless that changes this year?? This has run twice and last year, I was telling people the witch's sash is in the event store after the event. No one would listen and all during the event you hear the players crab about the pinata not dropping it. Others get lucky and nail it right away, many players get mad and flood chat with negative comments about the "grind" and the RNG. The first year 2018, one of my friends got lucky and stopped playing after they obtained the broom mount. This needless grind is only there to prevent everyone from getting enough tokens right away and leaving early. While I understand the concept, it doesn't make it "fun" for everyone. But it could be a lot worse, if there was real money / zen invested to obtain the items.

    wb-cenders.gif