test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
The new player experience - Dungeons
toadiebog
Member Posts: 1 Arc User
Older gamer, always a gamer, but never tried Neverwinter before.
I've gotten my first character to 80, and I'm very pleasantly surprised at how much it has to offer. So much I enjoy about it.
But...
Dungeon runs are a horrible experience, for one simple issue: The "lead" guy blasting off, don't care about the team. It's a very jarring experience the first time you enter a dungeon and realize...it's a damn race to the end. Good luck getting a lick off on the early bosses.
I know you can't force players to slow down and enjoy the experience with the team, because a lot of them have already run it 1000 times and don't care that some of the players haven't.
I realize the way to avoid this is find a group of friends, or a good guild, which I'm working on.
But, please put wait gates at the entrance to each boss, even the low level ones. Not everybody running that dungeon has done it a lot, or just wants their astral whatevers. First impressions really do mean something.
Cheers!
I've gotten my first character to 80, and I'm very pleasantly surprised at how much it has to offer. So much I enjoy about it.
But...
Dungeon runs are a horrible experience, for one simple issue: The "lead" guy blasting off, don't care about the team. It's a very jarring experience the first time you enter a dungeon and realize...it's a damn race to the end. Good luck getting a lick off on the early bosses.
I know you can't force players to slow down and enjoy the experience with the team, because a lot of them have already run it 1000 times and don't care that some of the players haven't.
I realize the way to avoid this is find a group of friends, or a good guild, which I'm working on.
But, please put wait gates at the entrance to each boss, even the low level ones. Not everybody running that dungeon has done it a lot, or just wants their astral whatevers. First impressions really do mean something.
Cheers!
9
Comments
If you are running dungeons for ADs/items, then the faster it is the better. Be grateful you have a party member(s) who can run and complete the dungeon. Would you want the alternative? Party member who just wander around the dungeon exploring every nooks n cranny making everyone else waiting at the gate!
If you are running a dungeon for fun/enjoyment/sense of accomplishment, then running with friends/guild/alliance will give you the greatest satisfaction toward the game.
An experienced with four other "strangers" is asking much. Putting a gate at the entrance at each boss is going to turn a 10mins short dungeons to possibly a 15mins+ run. People have quests/dailies/weeklies/events to do, maybe you have the time but other don't.
Plus, new players just can't find random people to play with if they are new. It takes a long time if you come into NW on your own. Even guildies are not a sure thing now days because of people living in different time zones and all of that. And we know that the player population as dropped dramatically. It's really hard for new players to make friends. It takes time.
Sadly, there is not much that can be done about it. I know of at least 5 RL friends who left the game because of the new player experience. Too many yahoos running around being jerks to people who are trying to make their way in the game and have fun.
To the OP all I can say is hang in there and know it a pain in the butt. Hopefully you can find a nice guild with patient players who will be more understanding.
It is unfortunate the Q system paired random people together who may have different goals/play style. But ultimately if you Q into a random most are after ADs/seals/rewards, to get that they need to complete the dungeon. That why most form groups in /LFG and channels, to get like minded people to run dungeon to get the rewards/seals/ADs.
If you Qed into random and expect people to accommodate you for your play style. That can be unfortunate as some don't agree with your play style, just like you don't like them rushing.
*I play an OP tank, so we can't out run the dps with their sprint/dodge/teleport. But I am happy to be behind and pick up the loots and gold for the party. I am appreciative they are killing mobs/boss and don't need a tank. So that I know for sure this dungeon can be completed.
*I like a slow-steady run in dungeon but i learn to tolerate to those who have different play style, as you can't avoid them. To play NW longterm, is to be able to adapt to changes and tolerate others who might play it differently. That why sometime I offer training/slow/steady run for my guild/Alliance members who want those kind of runs. I know some guild like Tyr Paladin from their post will not allow speed run, so maybe the OP should look into Tyr Paladin.
But this has been like this for a long time, people are too strong for most of the content so they just run ahead, and you came in better times, because in the old days you used to be able to kick someone as soon as the run started, so some players would inspect you and if they didn't like your gear/stats you would get insta kicked before the dungeon even started (well now instead of kicking someone they will just disconnect if they don't like the party)
The catch is exactly as you could have guessed: if you do not personally pick the whole party, you will end up with people of different tastes. In this case - people from random queues, people that want some fast rAD.
(and if you by any chance wonder... without the random queues it used to be quite unlikely for the system to ever fill the party for you for any of those "non mainstream" dungeons)
Sometimes queuing random players get queued with other players with similar goals, more often than not players queuing random get partied with other players who appear to have opposing goals but that's the rub when people choose to queue random. Neither play style is anything that can be labeled "right" or "wrong" however one thing is indisputable, dungeon runs and skirmishes, whether run from a private queue or a random queue are designed and intended to be run by a party – not a solo event so whether people want to recognize it or don’t, whether people want to abide by it or not anyone who abandons the rest of their party and runs (or attempts to run) a dungeon or skirmish as a solo event are doing a disservice to their party and the intended design of the content... regardless of what excuse(s) they attempt to justify doing so.
Any player stronger in attack, defense and movement can always dial back their efforts, if they choose to do so - no player weaker in their attack, defense and movement can go beyond their character's limitations.
Someone above said something along the lines of "would you rather have people exploring every nook and cranny?" as if the only two possibilities are a rushrushrush run, or an extremely slow run. To that, I'll point out the obvious: there's a whole lot of real estate between those two points. What I would rather have is a dungeon run where the players actually have to take the groups of enemies seriously and fight them, rather than just running past them and dragging them along like cans on a string while bouncing their way to the end. That is, in fact, an option.
Things get somewhat better once you are able to queue for Epics, but even then only sometimes. A lot of the epics I join aren't much different from regular dungeons - hilariously, if you end up in one of the tougher epics people just leave. Fact is, if you don't enjoy crashing through dungeons at top speed while blindly swatting at things then you're going to be spending the vast majority of your time with this game's group content doing content you don't enjoy. The awful dungeon runs you are experiencing are unfortunately the truth of the matter going forward.
Don't lose hope tho, there are ppl that are willing to teach you how to play the dung and even help you explore, like the doors in Malabogs castle or the mimic king in Master Spellplague. Most ppl just rush in in every dung cuz they were forced when they started playing and don't know much about the dungs. For real, if you stop rushing and start watching the artwork, its just awesome.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
> (Quote)
> I agree with this 100% what needs to be done is higher level characters need to be cut back to less than the average person the dungeon is made for "pull all boons, lvl 15 enchantments, artifacts, and anything else that gives them a boost over the lvl15 player, make them die if they choose to run ahead....solo and abandon someone the dungeon is truly made for. I see it all the time and I tend to lag back to make sure newer players don't get left behind to die a thousand times because the max lvl player can run past all the npcs and the lvl15 player can't and he also can't fight them alone. IT IS a bad experience for the people it is made for and the reason it needs to be changed more than anything else I can think of in the game. OR BLOCK ALL higher level players from the lower levels. It might be a challenge for a lvl 80 to do it with less and then he would not be so bored and need to run ahead and he can't pull high score for the dungeon every time either. Maybe a new player could win that position sometimes.
Have fun waiting on your low-level queue that will take hours to pop (if it does so at all).
Oh, and when the party wipes, wasting goodness-knows-how-much-of-your-time, don't expect any sympathy when you and any like you come crying about content being too difficult, too slow to pop, that there are few-if-any carries, etc. I'll be happy never to have to associate with you or players like you in this game and any other game in existence. 🙂
> I know what you mean, as healer i pug a lot (unless someone ask for my help) and i see plenty of ppl just rushing and/or insulting the new ones that are learning the class, dungeon or mechanics. Sadly, in pugs you might find way to much ppl that don't give a damn about your experience and will choose to insult you or leave instead of teaching and try.
>
> Don't lose hope tho, there are ppl that are willing to teach you how to play the dung and even help you explore, like the doors in Malabogs castle or the mimic king in Master Spellplague. Most ppl just rush in in every dung cuz they were forced when they started playing and don't know much about the dungs. For real, if you stop rushing and start watching the artwork, its just awesome.
If random online strangers or Cryptic want me to spend my valuable free time teaching them (beyond what I already do in-game, then they can make me an offer worthy of my time and efforts.... Oh yeah, and it would be great if they'd bother reading instructions & at least attempt to carry them out instead of repeating a failing strategy for the Nth time in a row (with predictable results).
No, idk if they delete it, but after the first boss and after you work your way to the gate and fight the mobs, in the oposite way of the stairs (the ones that lead you to the adventurers) there is a door that before could be open, but now idk cuz most parties just rush ahead.
@zyronax
While its TRUE that there are those kind of ppl, i always find that those ppl don't speak english or spanish (my native language) so the barrier to explain them the mechanics are pretty much imposible for me.
If you don't want to explain randoms how a dungeon/trail/boss or whatever works, its ok. I don't mind spending 5-10-20 minutes explaining them the "how to" if they want to learn, and even failling until they get the hang of it. Beated friking CR and LOMM with pugs that had just the right IL to get there after i explained to them how it was. And yes, some of the fights took more time than others, and sometimes we couldn't complete the dungs, but it was due to not enough dmg/hp or bugs (mostly the second). Maybe for being like this i "waste" time that i could be using grinding HAMSTER to sell, but with some luck the ppl that i helped will help others.
So it doesn't matter if you can spare your time to teach a random that want to learn how to play, out there are ppl willing to do it, and make you waste your time while their explain.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
"I agree with this 100% what needs to be done is higher level characters need to be cut back to less than the average person the dungeon is made for "pull all boons, lvl 15 enchantments, artifacts, and anything else that gives them a boost over the lvl15 player, make them die if they choose to run ahead....solo and abandon someone the dungeon is truly made for. I see it all the time and I tend to lag back to make sure newer players don't get left behind to die a thousand times because the max lvl player can run past all the npcs and the lvl15 player can't and he also can't fight them alone. IT IS a bad experience for the people it is made for and the reason it needs to be changed more than anything else I can think of in the game. OR BLOCK ALL higher level players from the lower levels. It might be a challenge for a lvl 80 to do it with less and then he would not be so bored and need to run ahead and he can't pull high score for the dungeon every time either. Maybe a new player could win that position sometimes."
The problem with this suggestion is most high level players don't really want to be in the type of dungeons you can race ahead in, and are there under duress to get their daily AD. There was a huge outcry when they started forcing people to run randoms for this very reason.
What you have is a game issue, where new players want to run all the content, quite rightly, but the community is not big enough to generate reliable regular queue's for these dungeons without forcing older players who don't really want to be there to queue.
The Older players you are encountering are probably only in a random run with you as they are either guildless or have no friends online at the time to run with so are forced into a PUG random, otherwise you wouldn't see any veteran players as they would be running with guild mates.
If you consider how long it takes for most epic dungeon runs to pop, especially if you're a DPS class, making the run anymore painful than it is will just result in anyone capable of running ahead giving it a miss all together. They'll either get their AD by another means, or wait until people they know are available and just crush the content between them. The only people who will suffer are the new players, who will have to wait extraordinary times for random dungeons, which is the last thing the Devs want as discouraging new players will kill the game.
So what you got is this half and half approach, where forcing old players into the dungeon is a necessary evil to allow enough people to queue to get the runs to pop, but they've also now made it so easy to level and gear up that new players are capable of running more interesting content in no time now, so they don't have to spend too long trailing after one player wiping out everything before you can reach it.
Id say bear with it, those early dungeons barely count as content anymore, and before long you'll be that veteran player who only has an hour to get his daily AD, has just spent 20 mins of it waiting for the queue to form and wants the dungeon out of the way ASAP so they can queue for the next one.
1) Really frustrating that I can't talk to anyone in game until I finish five areas of quests. I'd like to ask some basic questions of "sorry, I don't know any better... is it ok if I attack a mob that you are also attacking?"... just some real basic etiquette stuff so as not to be rude.
2) Frustraing that I can't post new topics/questions on the forum for some gated time. You guys have some type of issue with people harrassing other users with new accounts? Find another way besides not allowing new people to ask questions even if they are lame and even if you have to say "RTFM" but at least point them to the relevant threads.
3) Mob etiquette : I know how WoW and GuildWars2 works when it comes to sharing or not mob kills. What is the story here? If I see some guy killing mobs and he's a lev20 and I'm a lev20, do I help him? Do I help him if he doesn't seem to be doing well? Do I stear clear of his area? Am I stealing his kills if I don't? I know nodes are basically first-come first serve (like WoW, not like GW2) so if someone is killing a bunch of mobs in front of a arcane node then I assume the node is his, is that right? ( Again, I'd ask in game but so far I can't )
4) Dungeons for newbies are a joke. I literally can not run fast enough to keep up with the level 70 ahead that is killing everything in sight. I guess I'd like an option of running with a group that is "at level" even if it takes us an hour to finish the dungeon rather than ten minutes... like it used to be for some of you old timers when the content was new. I guess I need to find some guild that likes doing that stuff since the level 70 is just there to get it done as quick as possible and carrying me along because he thinks he's doing me a favor. He would do me a favor if we stopped at the front and talked about it ... but I can't say anything in game so I couldn't answer him anyway!
Thanks for listening to the noob whine.
2) Never be afraid to ask anything. Enough of us here will do our best to help.
3) Never be afraid to help someone you think is in trouble.
4) You will find a lot of people at high levels that have done the leveling dungeons to death. Mostly they just want to get to the end, collect their loot, and go on to the next thing on their agenda. Some of us do hang back and help to make sure the whole party gets to the end.
> 1) Attack away. If they're looking for quest items that drop from kills, there are always more mobs.
So I'm playing a ranger alot these days and the toon has this wonderful attack of firing an arc of arrows that kills quite a few things. If someone else it attacking a bunch of mobs (let's say he's attacking two or three at a time and there are four or five there) is it perfectly fine if I just kill the rest from an etiquette standpoint? I really don't want to be rude. WoW players would get a bit miffed and would try hard to mark mobs since the first one to mark gets the loot. GW2 is anyone who does any damage to a mob gets loot regardless. So just confirming that it's ok to shoot into a bunch of mobs that other people are attacking.. seems like yes.
Also.. yay! I can now talk in game. Shouldn't take so long. So yeah, now I can ask.