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Bot report ingame

kittendkittend Member Posts: 12 Arc User
I have come across so many ingame bots expecially in dungeons. The just run in circles and sometimes makes the game stuck u cant kick them even from the game it never lets u. Plz if we can have a kick button or a report button for bots. Idky this never seems to improve i no some use a follow command but this is pure bots in game joining dungeons. I have reported and come across so many but i keep seeing them pop up. Most common name is Mika for a bot. Plz can we get a report bot command and a way to kick them from dungeons.
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  • ayleen#2040 ayleen Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    Lol that way "active" players would drop for like 30%
    But seriously, cryptic has long history of punishing real dedicated players, playing long hours, for being bots while true bots live a happy bot life. I wouldn't expect anything to be done. Which is sad of course...

  • xdavidep96xdavidep96 Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    I saw lots of bots in the normal dungeon queue. But like ayleen said, don't expect that cryptic will do something about. The first proof of this is that this post will be totally ignored by any cryptic moderator. They don't care untill something damages their profit
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    Report them in game.

    https://support.arcgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017777753-How-do-I-report-a-Terms-of-Service-violation-

    Neverwinter (PC)
    If the violation occurs in this title, please submit the ticket in-game by going to the Game Menu (default key: Escape) and selecting Help.

    Once in the menu, press Request GM Help.

    Next, select Player Behavior, and fill out the description fields as thoroughly as possible. We highly recommend that you send your report as soon as the violation is witnessed.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited July 6

    I saw lots of bots in the normal dungeon queue. But like ayleen said, don't expect that cryptic will do something about. The first proof of this is that this post will be totally ignored by any cryptic moderator. They don't care untill something damages their profit

    Moderators are not cryptic employee and they can't do anything with bot neither. This post was posted 2 hours ago and moderators are not workers and the Cryptic staff are not yet at work. It is before 8am in California.
  • ayleen#2040 ayleen Member Posts: 70 Arc User

    I saw lots of bots in the normal dungeon queue. But like ayleen said, don't expect that cryptic will do something about. The first proof of this is that this post will be totally ignored by any cryptic moderator. They don't care untill something damages their profit

    Moderators are not cryptic employee and they can't do anything with bot neither. This post was posted 2 hours ago and moderators are not workers and the Cryptic staff are not yet at work. It is before 8am in California.
    Agreed, still the problem is huge. Weird postings on AH with ridiculous prices (priceless bowl for 1 mil AD anyone?), dude in our alliance announcing his 3 accounts where he farms AD, bots all around not possible to kick from queue... Noticing things people post on forum is one thing but whole madness with actions against ToS that are not punished despite endless reports is beyond me. In the meantime, one of our guildies was banned for a week because cryptic "thought" she was botting only because she was invoking on regular basis. As if it was so hard to understand that by creating such system, some players will actually use it to get invocation blessings and those sad bags with RP. Dunno, maybe some people just like regular life? Should they be banned for this? Some like to play slowly, for long hours, they chat with friends, they explore, they craft etc., should they be banned? While bots and blatant cheaters live prosperous lives, honest players get punished. Great way to drive more people to the game, this topic is wide and well known among MMO players. If any game starts to punish its players for playing, then it is over.


  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited July 6

    one of our guildies was banned for a week because cryptic "thought" she was botting only because she was invoking on regular basis. As if it was so hard to understand that by creating such system, some players will actually use it to get invocation blessings and those sad bags with RP. Dunno, maybe some people just like regular life? Should they be banned for this? Some like to play slowly, for long hours, they chat with friends, they explore, they craft etc., should they be banned? While bots and blatant cheaters live prosperous lives, honest players get punished. Great way to drive more people to the game, this topic is wide and well known among MMO players. If any game starts to punish its players for playing, then it is over.

    That is the exact problem when they tried to automate the process to eliminate botting. Once a while when they do that, they get false positive and regular players were banned 'by accident'. I was banned once in one of the massive bans because of that.

    Hence, when one asks to them to do something about botting, please consider the real botter would not be hurt because they could create a new one (actually new bunch) faster than you can think of. They are pro and they prepare for that. It is the regular player who get hurt during cross fire.
  • nitocris83nitocris83 Member, Administrator Posts: 3,313 Community Manager
    Thanks for posting. Accurately identifying bots (humanity checks, behavior patterns) is a pretty complex process. We'd like to avoid false positives which often looks like no action is being taken and does cause frustration among the player base. But we appreciate folks continuing to raise concerns.
  • kittendkittend Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    I don't mind slow players amd people that grind really doesn't bother me how they play. I only get triggerd in dungeons. Eg we did a dungeon and because 1 person is a bot we all waiting at end game boss but that person is a the beginning running in circles... U cant vote to kick because 1 they not afk, 2 they not disconnected and 3 they not harassing so the vote to kick system doesn't work. So either u all have to abandon the dungeon or if u lucky u can still run all the way back depending on the dungeon then grind a walk back so the bot can follow u which takes easily another 20mins to do. That is my issue i have is there should be another vote to kick or auto report for these situations. Otherwise i don't mind anything om the game i love the game as is just these kind of unsportsmanlike players really spoil it for us. And they can keep creating bots i don't care as long as if we stuck in a dungeon there is some sort of action we can take so ot doesn't ruin the game play for us. Thank you all who commented or listened
  • ayleen#2040 ayleen Member Posts: 70 Arc User

    Thanks for posting. Accurately identifying bots (humanity checks, behavior patterns) is a pretty complex process. We'd like to avoid false positives which often looks like no action is being taken and does cause frustration among the player base. But we appreciate folks continuing to raise concerns.

    Uhm... yes, sure, false positives are annoying. Wait, what? Please, too many times these false positives lead to ban honest people while you do not take actions against real bots and people with multiple accounts just because you are afraid of false positive... Facepalm. Come on, is that really so hard to implement system that tracks down players? Say I play for 12 hours, in that time I:
    - invoke on alts and main, not always on all of them but still
    - play randoms
    - do legacy quests often on all alts
    - do MEs sometimes
    - chat with guildies
    - stand in PE reading noobies in chat :)
    - wait for queue to pop as dps for 40 minutes
    - stand in PE reading noobies in chat :)
    - do Omu/Barovia hunts because I like them
    - do map hunts in new zone
    - stand in PE reading noobies in chat :)
    - and multitude other things this game offers
    - plus I have this habit of always standing in the same place near bank in PE because that's where I park my toons;
    If I report bot in dungeon for botting, it is so damn easy to track down its behavior, like not speaking in chat, not reacting to players talking, running in circles etc. It is so easy to distinguish from real player that I really have no idea how easier this can be. Come on, be honest. You want people to play but don't want people to play...
    My advice: focus on dungeons. This is really an issue when we cannot kick bot and cannot proceed because bot is stuck in wall and cannot use command because, well, it's a bot. Focus on people with multiple accounts. Let us help you in getting rid of these by actually doing something. Every time I reported bot, I got generic reply with thanks and don't worry we will take care of it. Why? Don't you want proof, don't you want more explanation? Screenshots? Vids? Players are to help Cryptic and you know why? Because we care. Still, despite many let downs we suffered since beta.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited July 7

    Thanks for posting. Accurately identifying bots (humanity checks, behavior patterns) is a pretty complex process. We'd like to avoid false positives which often looks like no action is being taken and does cause frustration among the player base. But we appreciate folks continuing to raise concerns.

    Uhm... yes, sure, false positives are annoying. Wait, what? Please, too many times these false positives lead to ban honest people while you do not take actions against real bots and people with multiple accounts just because you are afraid of false positive... Facepalm. Come on, is that really so hard to implement system that tracks down players? Say I play for 12 hours, in that time I:
    - invoke on alts and main, not always on all of them but still
    - play randoms
    - do legacy quests often on all alts
    - do MEs sometimes
    - chat with guildies
    - stand in PE reading noobies in chat :)
    - wait for queue to pop as dps for 40 minutes
    - stand in PE reading noobies in chat :)
    - do Omu/Barovia hunts because I like them
    - do map hunts in new zone
    - stand in PE reading noobies in chat :)
    - and multitude other things this game offers
    - plus I have this habit of always standing in the same place near bank in PE because that's where I park my toons;
    If I report bot in dungeon for botting, it is so damn easy to track down its behavior, like not speaking in chat, not reacting to players talking, running in circles etc. It is so easy to distinguish from real player that I really have no idea how easier this can be. Come on, be honest. You want people to play but don't want people to play...
    My advice: focus on dungeons. This is really an issue when we cannot kick bot and cannot proceed because bot is stuck in wall and cannot use command because, well, it's a bot. Focus on people with multiple accounts. Let us help you in getting rid of these by actually doing something. Every time I reported bot, I got generic reply with thanks and don't worry we will take care of it. Why? Don't you want proof, don't you want more explanation? Screenshots? Vids? Players are to help Cryptic and you know why? Because we care. Still, despite many let downs we suffered since beta.
    If you speak to me in chat, I may not respond at all.
    1. I seldom read the chat.
    2. I don't respond to stranger.
    3. I turn off most channels.
    4. I usually find out somebody spoke to me after I finished the dungeon and the person was already gone.
    5. I may respond 15 minutes after the one who spoke to me such as the guild leader.
    6. I may turn on combat/inventory log that could scroll up all the chat messages, a main reason I don't see any chat message until I turn those off.

    So, am I a bot? Or, just somebody who does not pay attention to it?
  • motu999#9953 motu999 Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited July 7
    To add to what plasticbat said:

    For a human it is very easy (child's play) to find out whether two pictures represent the same person.
    We are very good at pattern recognition, including the most difficult form of it: identifying behavioral patterns.
    For a computer this is very difficult and requires loads of computing power, especially if your goal is to have a very low percentage of false positives.
    Essentially, you need a human to make the final decision. Cryptic very likely does not have the human resources, to pull this off on a large scale.

    Having said that, I find a "report suspected bot" menu option a good idea and have been advertising this for some time. It could potentially help Cryptic to narrow down the number of cases that need to be looked into more closely.

    Why not introduce a menu item (right-click on player) called "report suspected bot", possibly followed up by a mandatory confirmation: "Do you really want to report player HAMSTER? Yes/No"

    Problem, as always is:
    - There will be players that intentionally misuse this option to discredit other players for selfish reasons.
    - Then there will be overzealous players, that unintentionally misuse this option, because they will find almost every "out of the ordinary" behavior "suspicious".
    This (and other effects) will lead to many false reports, that all have to be looked at by a human supervisor. The more the workload of the human supervisor, the more mistakes (s)he will make. Mistakes will very likely affect new players - the future cash cows: New players generally act "out of the ordinary", simply because they do not (yet) know what the ordinary behavior is supposed to be.

    Cryptic needs to take all of this into account, when they take action against botting. Therefore @nitocris83 has been rather careful in her comment - and I think rightfully so.
    Post edited by motu999#9953 on
  • ayleen#2040 ayleen Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    @plasticbat I mean dungeon chat, like where you actually have to communicate mechanics. Bots won't pick up mimic color nor they will go to the right color in ToNG potions trap.

    There isn't good solution but overreaction is definitely not good approach.

  • therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 453 Arc User


    If you speak to me in chat, I may not respond at all.
    1. I seldom read the chat.
    2. I don't respond to stranger.
    3. I turn off most channels.
    4. I usually find out somebody spoke to me after I finished the dungeon and the person was already gone.
    5. I may respond 15 minutes after the one who spoke to me such as the guild leader.
    6. I may turn on combat/inventory log that could scroll up all the chat messages, a main reason I don't see any chat message until I turn those off.

    So, am I a bot? Or, just somebody who does not pay attention to it?

    Seriously? Bad luck to you, I'd say. If you play a MULTI-player online game, deliberately (!) join a group of strangers to run a dungeon and do not react to them in any way, you can not blame anyone if you are perceived as a bot.
  • kittendkittend Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    > @plasticbat said:
    > (Quote)
    > If you speak to me in chat, I may not respond at all.
    > 1. I seldom read the chat.
    > 2. I don't respond to stranger.
    > 3. I turn off most channels.
    > 4. I usually find out somebody spoke to me after I finished the dungeon and the person was already gone.
    > 5. I may respond 15 minutes after the one who spoke to me such as the guild leader.
    > 6. I may turn on combat/inventory log that could scroll up all the chat messages, a main reason I don't see any chat message until I turn those off.
    >
    > So, am I a bot? Or, just somebody who does not pay attention to it?

    I am the same. I never talk to people in the game i don't bother with the chat. I just play with me and my patner and don't bother with others doesn't make u a bot if u the silent gamer type. But u can see the behavior in a dungeon if it's a bot or not. Just someone following we had that litrelly we even tested it out someone was just set to follow a certain player. They got stuck and was just doing circles in a map the number 1 bot give away is just open the map look at them they not moving besides running in a circle because their command is stuck. We went to them (my patner and i) then it started to follow us as soon as we stood still it started doing the circular movements again we moved it moved we stoped it got stuck and ran in circles pure bot indication. I will never assume someone is a bot if they not chatting or communicating i see purely based on their movements.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited July 8


    If you speak to me in chat, I may not respond at all.
    1. I seldom read the chat.
    2. I don't respond to stranger.
    3. I turn off most channels.
    4. I usually find out somebody spoke to me after I finished the dungeon and the person was already gone.
    5. I may respond 15 minutes after the one who spoke to me such as the guild leader.
    6. I may turn on combat/inventory log that could scroll up all the chat messages, a main reason I don't see any chat message until I turn those off.

    So, am I a bot? Or, just somebody who does not pay attention to it?

    Seriously? Bad luck to you, I'd say. If you play a MULTI-player online game, deliberately (!) join a group of strangers to run a dungeon and do not react to them in any way, you can not blame anyone if you are perceived as a bot.
    Well, I don't really care if other players consider I am a bot because a sensible human being (that could be rare these days) would not consider me as a bot just because I don't respond in chat.
    What I care is if the game consider me as a bot because the game is not a human.

    1. Not typing in chat is not a violation of game rule. It is not a requirement.
    2. I don't pay attention to the chat because I am fighting; I can't watch the chat, type and fight.
    3. I could be using discord and are communicating with other people and the one who uses chat to talk to me may be the only 'stranger' in the group.
    4. In some easy dungeon, I don't expect communication is required to get that done. Hence, I don't pay attention. For tougher dungeon, I will pay attention.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User


    If you speak to me in chat, I may not respond at all.
    1. I seldom read the chat.
    2. I don't respond to stranger.
    3. I turn off most channels.
    4. I usually find out somebody spoke to me after I finished the dungeon and the person was already gone.
    5. I may respond 15 minutes after the one who spoke to me such as the guild leader.
    6. I may turn on combat/inventory log that could scroll up all the chat messages, a main reason I don't see any chat message until I turn those off.

    So, am I a bot? Or, just somebody who does not pay attention to it?

    Seriously? Bad luck to you, I'd say. If you play a MULTI-player online game, deliberately (!) join a group of strangers to run a dungeon and do not react to them in any way, you can not blame anyone if you are perceived as a bot.
    Wow! I don't play online games to be anti-social. However your approach is, if you are anti-social you must be a bot. Good thing you are NOT a developer or your game would be dead before it leaves beta. There are far too many good players who keep to themselves and don't chat or chat with friends only.

    @ayleen#2040 Not everyone plays the same as you or I. I do a lot of chat - but bots can chat too. My husband recently made some service bots for an internet company. They are suppose to assist customers before going to a live paid human, and this keeps the cost down. They are not meant to "fool" people they are meant to be a friendly approach to solve simple issues faster and send more complicated issues to a human.

    As for; "Focus on people with multiple accounts.", families can no longer play together, I was in Avernus yesterday assisting two brothers. I could hear them talking to each other in the same room over their microphones. So they are in one house and hold 2 accounts. I could see investigation into households with more than 5 accounts, but in all reality the pros just use internet spoofing to avoid detection.

    As I said, on another thread here, about this issue; detection is probably so simple (so I was told) it could be automated. To prevent false positives, they need to build a simple bot jail that humans can escape and bots cannot. Maybe as an added feature, to avoid abuse of reporting players as bots, should the human escape the bot jail their accuser is tossed into bot jail so they get an immediate karmic response. :lol:
    goro-thay.gif
  • ayleen#2040 ayleen Member Posts: 70 Arc User


    @ayleen#2040 Not everyone plays the same as you or I. I do a lot of chat - but bots can chat too. My husband recently made some service bots for an internet company. They are suppose to assist customers before going to a live paid human, and this keeps the cost down. They are not meant to "fool" people they are meant to be a friendly approach to solve simple issues faster and send more complicated issues to a human.

    As for; "Focus on people with multiple accounts.", families can no longer play together, I was in Avernus yesterday assisting two brothers. I could hear them talking to each other in the same room over their microphones. So they are in one house and hold 2 accounts. I could see investigation into households with more than 5 accounts, but in all reality the pros just use internet spoofing to avoid detection.

    As I said, on another thread here, about this issue; detection is probably so simple (so I was told) it could be automated. To prevent false positives, they need to build a simple bot jail that humans can escape and bots cannot.

    True, we all play differently. I have absolutely 0, null knowledge about any form of automated stuff that can be done by machines, I'm just not tech person so if there is any system that can detect bots that should be implemented. Jail sounds like good thing, bots wouldn't be able to escape if there were things to do that only real human can do.
    As for multiple accounts, I honestly have no idea how to prevent this happening. people are just... well, rude and nasty and all most of them want is win over everyone even if it is a daamn game only, seriously psychology issues here but whatever. I just say that honestly playing people are in disadvantage because we are capped at 100k refining rad cap which is absurd especially when the game went full p2w due to healing nerf and absurd, cosmic prices for stones of health. As someone said, "milk it till its dead" mode in full I see which is sad because this game could be so good.

    Maybe as an added feature, to avoid abuse of reporting players as bots, should the human escape the bot jail their accuser is tossed into bot jail so they get an immediate karmic response. :lol:

    Awesome idea :) Like there is this feature in ffxiv when before you report player, system is asking if you really want to report player because if it is false you will be treated the same. No jail, though ^^


  • therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 453 Arc User

    Wow! I don't play online games to be anti-social. However your approach is, if you are anti-social you must be a bot. Good thing you are NOT a developer or your game would be dead before it leaves beta. There are far too many good players who keep to themselves and don't chat or chat with friends only.

    And where exactly did I claim that I consider everyone a bot who behaves anti-social? Fits the rage argument of yours? Yeah, as @plasticbat said, "sensible human beings" could be rare these days. Moreso human beings who are able to read and understand it seems, lol.

    I merely said that someone who behaves anti-social can not blame anyone but him/herself if he/she is perceived as a bot.

  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User

    Wow! I don't play online games to be anti-social. However your approach is, if you are anti-social you must be a bot. Good thing you are NOT a developer or your game would be dead before it leaves beta. There are far too many good players who keep to themselves and don't chat or chat with friends only.

    And where exactly did I claim that I consider everyone a bot who behaves anti-social? Fits the rage argument of yours? Yeah, as @plasticbat said, "sensible human beings" could be rare these days. Moreso human beings who are able to read and understand it seems, lol.

    I merely said that someone who behaves anti-social can not blame anyone but him/herself if he/she is perceived as a bot.

    It appears we are misreading each other then, I wasn't aware my comments were considered "rage" or maybe I don't understand? I was more surprised with, what I read as a lack of concern for fellow players. It is difficult to tell with people responding in one line of text. Many of those I consider friends and fellow players do that frequently on here. It has caused some confusion and misunderstanding in the past.

    As for how many players in this game that don't communicate and don't chat, look at how few of us voice any opinions here in the official forums. Any given day there are between 900 to 500 people in PE (unless they are mostly bots) , yet crickets chirp in the Zone chat, unless someone get a political debate going. Even then you are lucky to see 1 out of 100 talking.

    Many times I will see French, German, Polish, Portuguese, etc. talking and some English speaker will make sport of them. I often take the time to translated what is being said, if it pertains to the game, "Tomas from Brazil is asking about where he can get a mount in game.". Many people are non-English and simply will not talk in the dungeon. It is sad when others think your native language is offensive to them.

    Players turn chat off and often use Discord or Mumble to communicate. At least 2 of my friends use separate device such as a smart phone or tablet to talk. Another friend of mine and former Foundry author said, he looked at the game as a stand alone game, that other people just happen to play. Right or wrong that was his reasoning for his behavior.
    goro-thay.gif
  • therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 453 Arc User

    It appears we are misreading each other then, I wasn't aware my comments were considered "rage" or maybe I don't understand? I was more surprised with, what I read as a lack of concern for fellow players. It is difficult to tell with people responding in one line of text. Many of those I consider friends and fellow players do that frequently on here. It has caused some confusion and misunderstanding in the past.

    As for how many players in this game that don't communicate and don't chat, look at how few of us voice any opinions here in the official forums. Any given day there are between 900 to 500 people in PE (unless they are mostly bots) , yet crickets chirp in the Zone chat, unless someone get a political debate going. Even then you are lucky to see 1 out of 100 talking.

    Many times I will see French, German, Polish, Portuguese, etc. talking and some English speaker will make sport of them. I often take the time to translated what is being said, if it pertains to the game, "Tomas from Brazil is asking about where he can get a mount in game.". Many people are non-English and simply will not talk in the dungeon. It is sad when others think your native language is offensive to them.

    Players turn chat off and often use Discord or Mumble to communicate. At least 2 of my friends use separate device such as a smart phone or tablet to talk. Another friend of mine and former Foundry author said, he looked at the game as a stand alone game, that other people just happen to play. Right or wrong that was his reasoning for his behavior.

    I guess it is ok to have different opinions especially about something so unimportant as a game.

    In my opinion - and I say this as someone whose native language is not english - every player of an online game hosted in the United States should expect that english is the chosen language when you team up with random people. But once again, this is only my opinion, everyone is entitled to have his/her own.
  • shugenshashugensha Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    Just to understand.. Being introvert, anti-social or just ignore comments from randoms makes you a bot? How about language barriers?

    I usually don't reply cuz forgot to read the chat (90% of the times doesn't have anything that steal my attention), so unless i get a PM i would forgot for even hours i have a chat window. Heck, most times i just put a movie or something on my phone and watch/hear it while playing, so its less attention i give to the chat.

    I do speak if someone say its new to a dungeon and need a quick explaining, but mostly if there is no other wanting to explain.


    So, a "this person didn't talked, its a bot, ban hammer!" its just bad. A heat map that tracks ppl running in circles for more than 5 minutes its a better and more accurate solution. Tho, i am not a programmer so i don't know how possible that is.

    Just cuz its a MMO, it doesn't mean you NEED to talk to anyone. Ran plenty dungs with no one talking even with the famous "ty all" at the end, and not for once tought "Oh, this are well programmed bots".
    Soulweaver: The Lovely Red

  • ayleen#2040 ayleen Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    shugensha said:

    Just to understand.. Being introvert, anti-social or just ignore comments from randoms makes you a bot? How about language barriers?

    Just to clarify: overreacting in both ways is not good. Not speaking in chat doesn't make you bot of course but being asked for specific things that need to be communicated and not getting response may result in thinking you are not real human. Simple "sry language barrier" is usually enough. Simple "not familiar with mechanics, explain pls" is enough. Toons running weird AND not talking are more suspected.


  • crypticnotioncrypticnotion Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 45 Arc User

    Thanks for posting. Accurately identifying bots (humanity checks, behavior patterns) is a pretty complex process. We'd like to avoid false positives which often looks like no action is being taken and does cause frustration among the player base. But we appreciate folks continuing to raise concerns.

    Uhm... yes, sure, false positives are annoying. Wait, what? Please, too many times these false positives lead to ban honest people while you do not take actions against real bots and people with multiple accounts just because you are afraid of false positive... Facepalm. Come on, is that really so hard to implement system that tracks down players? Say I play for 12 hours, in that time I:
    - invoke on alts and main, not always on all of them but still
    - play randoms
    - do legacy quests often on all alts
    - do MEs sometimes
    - chat with guildies
    - stand in PE reading noobies in chat :)
    - wait for queue to pop as dps for 40 minutes
    - stand in PE reading noobies in chat :)
    - do Omu/Barovia hunts because I like them
    - do map hunts in new zone
    - stand in PE reading noobies in chat :)
    - and multitude other things this game offers
    - plus I have this habit of always standing in the same place near bank in PE because that's where I park my toons;
    If I report bot in dungeon for botting, it is so damn easy to track down its behavior, like not speaking in chat, not reacting to players talking, running in circles etc. It is so easy to distinguish from real player that I really have no idea how easier this can be. Come on, be honest. You want people to play but don't want people to play...
    My advice: focus on dungeons. This is really an issue when we cannot kick bot and cannot proceed because bot is stuck in wall and cannot use command because, well, it's a bot. Focus on people with multiple accounts. Let us help you in getting rid of these by actually doing something. Every time I reported bot, I got generic reply with thanks and don't worry we will take care of it. Why? Don't you want proof, don't you want more explanation? Screenshots? Vids? Players are to help Cryptic and you know why? Because we care. Still, despite many let downs we suffered since beta.
    If you speak to me in chat, I may not respond at all.
    1. I seldom read the chat.
    2. I don't respond to stranger.
    3. I turn off most channels.
    4. I usually find out somebody spoke to me after I finished the dungeon and the person was already gone.
    5. I may respond 15 minutes after the one who spoke to me such as the guild leader.
    6. I may turn on combat/inventory log that could scroll up all the chat messages, a main reason I don't see any chat message until I turn those off.

    So, am I a bot? Or, just somebody who does not pay attention to it?
    do you run in circles get stuck in corners refuse to respond in chat when you have delayed the game for 15mins if so your a bot and need to be kicked.
  • crypticnotioncrypticnotion Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 45 Arc User
    kittend said:

    I have come across so many ingame bots expecially in dungeons. The just run in circles and sometimes makes the game stuck u cant kick them even from the game it never lets u. Plz if we can have a kick button or a report button for bots. Idky this never seems to improve i no some use a follow command but this is pure bots in game joining dungeons. I have reported and come across so many but i keep seeing them pop up. Most common name is Mika for a bot. Plz can we get a report bot command and a way to kick them from dungeons.

    Should be a report bot on reasons to kick! Many times person is playing one toon in the dungeon while running a bot at same time and will not let you kick the bot by voting to not kick so it fails. IT IS A MAJOR problem they need to put one person on bot duty 24hrs. a day just to find and delete accounts that are doing this. A few moments in game can see and determine a real bot.
    Then delete the Whole account. Running two accounts at same time on one PC is not hard to do at all and they are ruining the game with the endless bots. And the person voting to keep the bot in after 5 minutes delete his account also because he is running the bot.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,054 Arc User

    Thanks for posting. Accurately identifying bots (humanity checks, behavior patterns) is a pretty complex process. We'd like to avoid false positives which often looks like no action is being taken and does cause frustration among the player base. But we appreciate folks continuing to raise concerns.

    Uhm... yes, sure, false positives are annoying. Wait, what? Please, too many times these false positives lead to ban honest people while you do not take actions against real bots and people with multiple accounts just because you are afraid of false positive... Facepalm. Come on, is that really so hard to implement system that tracks down players? Say I play for 12 hours, in that time I:
    - invoke on alts and main, not always on all of them but still
    - play randoms
    - do legacy quests often on all alts
    - do MEs sometimes
    - chat with guildies
    - stand in PE reading noobies in chat :)
    - wait for queue to pop as dps for 40 minutes
    - stand in PE reading noobies in chat :)
    - do Omu/Barovia hunts because I like them
    - do map hunts in new zone
    - stand in PE reading noobies in chat :)
    - and multitude other things this game offers
    - plus I have this habit of always standing in the same place near bank in PE because that's where I park my toons;
    If I report bot in dungeon for botting, it is so damn easy to track down its behavior, like not speaking in chat, not reacting to players talking, running in circles etc. It is so easy to distinguish from real player that I really have no idea how easier this can be. Come on, be honest. You want people to play but don't want people to play...
    My advice: focus on dungeons. This is really an issue when we cannot kick bot and cannot proceed because bot is stuck in wall and cannot use command because, well, it's a bot. Focus on people with multiple accounts. Let us help you in getting rid of these by actually doing something. Every time I reported bot, I got generic reply with thanks and don't worry we will take care of it. Why? Don't you want proof, don't you want more explanation? Screenshots? Vids? Players are to help Cryptic and you know why? Because we care. Still, despite many let downs we suffered since beta.
    If you speak to me in chat, I may not respond at all.
    1. I seldom read the chat.
    2. I don't respond to stranger.
    3. I turn off most channels.
    4. I usually find out somebody spoke to me after I finished the dungeon and the person was already gone.
    5. I may respond 15 minutes after the one who spoke to me such as the guild leader.
    6. I may turn on combat/inventory log that could scroll up all the chat messages, a main reason I don't see any chat message until I turn those off.

    So, am I a bot? Or, just somebody who does not pay attention to it?
    do you run in circles get stuck in corners refuse to respond in chat when you have delayed the game for 15mins if so your a bot and need to be kicked.
    I've been accused of being a bot on a few occasions. I do not dignify that with a response. And if that person persists, I purposefully run in a circle around them or run into a wall/corner, hit 'T', and go make a drink. They can kick me if they want. But the smarter players know some places like epic dungeons cannot be botted.
  • dionchidionchi Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited July 15
    Just to emphasize not everything is how some perceive them to be, recently I queued for a random dungeon run and before we departed from the starting point one player posted in chat a "heads up" that another player in the party was a bot...

    The problem with that is the player accused of being a bot interacted (non verbally) with other players, didn't display a great deal of path focus, alternated their route to pick up items dropped by mobs, opened gates and even backtracked to join up with another player. It that player was a "bot" it was an exceptional (nearly impossible) display of programming, so my thoughts were "Not a bot".

    I realize many people have differing opinions as to what actually constitutes bot behavior, but as @nitocris83 mentioned: "Accurately identifying bots (humanity checks, behavior patterns) is a pretty complex process" and goes beyond a lot of players limited considerations like; 'they run around in circles' or 'they won't respond in chat'.

    Should be a report bot on reasons to kick! Many times person is playing one toon in the dungeon while running a bot at same time and will not let you kick the bot by voting to not kick so it fails. IT IS A MAJOR problem they need to put one person on bot duty 24hrs. a day just to find and delete accounts that are doing this. A few moments in game can see and determine a real bot.
    Then delete the Whole account. Running two accounts at same time on one PC is not hard to do at all and they are ruining the game with the endless bots. And the person voting to keep the bot in after 5 minutes delete his account also because he is running the bot.

    Strongly disagree for as @nitocris83 posted, the identification of a bot is a complex process and I firmly believe most players lack the necessary skill and information to identify an actual bot -vs- an actual player with any certainty.

    do you run in circles get stuck in corners refuse to respond in chat when you have delayed the game for 15mins if so your a bot and need to be kicked.

    I have known players who run in circles, occasionally I have been known to turn off chat (or more frequently ignore it) and thus not respond. As for delaying the game, there are many reasons something like this might occur, recently I was in a random dungeon and two of the party members ran off and left a lower level player behind so they just stopped. I circled back a couple of times and tried chatting with them but they didn't respond. Figuring they went AFK another player and I joined the main portion of the party killing mobs left in their wake as they rushed ahead. I tried sending a tell one more time to the player who had stopped and they responded. They were pissed because everyone ran off so they stopped their progress to the final gate, moving just enough to keep active as "payback". They never were voted out of the party BTW.
    DD~
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited July 15
    kittend said:

    ...because 1 person is a bot we all waiting at end game boss but that person is a the beginning running in circles... U cant vote to kick because 1 they not afk, 2 they not disconnected and 3 they not harassing so the vote to kick system doesn't work. So either u all have to abandon the dungeon or if u lucky u can still run all the way back depending on the dungeon then grind a walk back so the bot can follow u which takes easily another 20mins to do...

    Those wait gates suck.

    How long does it take a human being to reach that gate after it's been activated? Be generous. Give them a 5 minute timer then auto kick anyone not in the group hug. Anyone who's still at the entrance by the time everyone else is in the group huddle at the end - deserves to be kicked whether they're human or not.

    If autokicking feels too meanie, then autoteleport their rear ends to everyone else.

    Or just ditch the wait gate altogether. If people want to jump into content all by their lonesome while everyone else lounges around the campfire, let them.

    I'm sure there are all kinds of ways the devs could address this particular issue. But so long as people are willing to put up with the old As Is, there's no incentive for them to do anything about it.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User
    I am going to run this hypothetical scenario by all you guys and see what you think.

    Five enter a dungeon PUG, only one is a bot, one person is an American who half way through the dungeon goes AFK and trots off the the bathroom with IBS, another is a North Korean prisoner who doesn't understand how to play or read English, the remaining two are average human players. The bot is one of those programmed to either follow the nearest player when lost or seek the next gate or campfire. The bot runs to the next door ignoring all enemies.

    After a while the NK prisoner is lost has no clue what he is doing, this is when our first average human reports him as a bot. NK is told in chat by System Admin "Player X says you are a bot, can you please respond to them?". NK don't understand the message and 30 seconds is sent to robot hell (bot jail). He is now in a copy of the dungeon, with white walls. The walls read; "To leave bot jail type in chat; /key (random 5 digit number here)" Sadly NK prisoner cannot read this but is confused and exits the game. A black flag is posted on his account that he should later be observed by a human. Meanwhile he is not punished just replaced.

    Next our American goes trotting off to the bathroom. Average player X and Y are both yelling at him to catch up. Y reports him as a bot and he is sent to bot jail. Same thing is happening while he is AFK. However he returns and finds the message; "To leave bot jail type in chat; /key 98272" written on the walls. He types this in chat and pops back into the dungeon near Player X and Y. His flag is set to green and while he is immune for the remainder of the day, it does count how many visits he made to bot jail. Because where there is smoke there could be fire.

    Finally the real bot has found a pit. The little bot can't get enough smarts to dodge it. New player Z who joined to replace the NK prisoner reports the real bot. The real bot can't read a graphic on a wall. So it runs the bot jail all day long. The players finish the dungeon and have successfully jailed the bot.
    goro-thay.gif
  • kittendkittend Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    Im just saying they need to look into the bot pattern example of bots in game

    1 - always a paladin
    2 - always only has 1 artifact exactly the same and green level even though all slots r unlocked
    3 - the companion is always the same for every bot
    4 - circular movements in game
    5 - no enchantments on gear
    6 - only green and blue gear items even though level is max

    Just some basic easy bot give aways.
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