I just was informed by Cryptic-Ridi that the old PVP system isn't going to be scrapped when this new heroes PVP gets introduced. We're good now XD.
I will mention, the way that CDP post is written made it look like the old PVP system is getting scrapped. I wasn't only person who had that take, everyone I saw talking about it today before I heard about it was saying same thing. @nitocris83 You should update that CDP post to clarify that this proposal isn't intended to replace the existing system where we fight eachother with the characters we made.
Good stuff. As long as both styles get some development love (and ideally lead into each other) this can only be good for pvp
1
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
> The most important issues at this moment in pvp and the things that have to be fixed are:
>
> -Paladin sigil ( the healing and damage resistance it gives is really game breaking and especially when there is many of them on each team)
>
> -The healing atm is pretty high in pvp and it should significantly decreased
>
> -Shadowclad is overpowered and it overshadows all the other armor
...And that's why they keep nerfing our pve stuff bc they're too powerful when used in pvp. But not everybody is into pvp so they should leave this items exactly as they are.
The main reason to have separate gear to be used only and exclusively for pvp. We already have but its outdated gear.
LOL, yup so they reworked clerics and healing classes in general and nerfed tactical and incoming healing in mod 19 cause of wait for it .... ............. PvP balance ..... oMg lol
got any examples for us instead of conjecture ?? neither of the 2 items you have sighted have been touched much at all cause of pvp LOL
what item "stuff" are you using that you "believe" is nerfed cause of pvp ?
Turn pvp into a MOBA just like the game Smite, hahaha.
0
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I have opinions on a lot of things...and I do post quite a bit, but I have not been commenting in this thread. This is for a simple reason - I have ZERO interest in PvP and will not do it unless absolutely forced to.
So, quite frankly, I don't care how PvP is changed, or even if it is removed altogether, as long as it does not affect me in any way, which means:
Changes to gameplay or classes for the sake of PvP should not affect PvE gameplay in any way.
PvP rewards should not include items that are seen as BiS for PvE purposes.
PvP should be totally optional - leave it for those who want it.
Having said this, I do have one comment.
The big question right now is basically which segment of the playerbase are the PvP changes aimed at. If the goal is to make the current "hardcore" PvPers happy, and get back those who have left because of dissatisfaction, I have some doubts the proposed changes will do the trick. Those players have been asking for entirely different things. IF you want to make PvP more attractive to "casual" PvPers, the proposed changes may do that in the short term - but whether you will be able to maintain their interest longer term is a big, big question. If you want to make PvP attractive to "pure-PvE" players I think your efforts are misguided.
It doesn't smell good at all. You lied to us and lied to me, this "thing" should never have come to light and you did not contact any important members of this community to understand and analyze all of this. You're like Trump and all the other influential people who are looking for a way to get more people for more money even if it ruins things... OMG even ME yes me best of all I have not been contacted or asked for anything I'm shocked 😱🤭 😋 I'll pray to make you can get everything you deserve and I'm sarcastic... Just remember one day or another it's going to hurt.
PS: As I make fun of this CDP that's exactly what you do with us fortunately we are not all sheep to follow the herd. Close that ***** tnx
I get it that there are those who love PvP, and I am happy for them. Give them a version of Neverwinter that has PvP as a central part. But get it out of the PvE version of the game, where the vast majority of players either hate it or are utterly indifferent to it.
I did a count of pvp players in the leaderboard on xbox there are about 148 people total represented and I didn't count how many were duplicates but I"m guessing it's a significant portion. honestly with those numbers I wonder why they're spending the time on it as a project. That seems pretty dead to me.
Barring the way they said they're going to do it where you have a preassigned load out as the chicken thing was.. I don't see how they're going to "grow" pvp.. the rewards aren't bad. but it's such a bad experience people are like, naw. hard pass.
the only way to balance pvp in a game like this one is to equalize things. and it also accomplishes the goal of not messing with pve things to do balance pvp. I think it's a great change (if there is really a need to keep it at all. ) I actually can see it growing a little more than it is now that way.
the pvp people that left are never coming back. a 5 year old game doesn't suddenly develop a thriving pvp population.
Pve players: "Stop investing in PvP, get rid of it!" Pvp players: "Have you noticed the size of the general population and popularity of the game dropping along with that of PvP?"
I don't have the numbers, but if they did a simple statistical analysis on their player numbers and the pvp population, there may be a correlation there. Pvp'ers who stream or post youtube videos can be icons that get other people to play and maybe invest in pvp, and when those people lose interest in the game, so does a large portion of the general population. This has certainly been true for me, watching Pvp videos on youtube is what got me into pvp, and pvp is what kept me in the game. Depending on the numbers, it may make complete business sense to revive the competitive pvp population, even if atm, the pvp population is low.
I may have been wrong, maybe it's a good thing to have some coupling between PvE and PvP. What I mean is if we look back to when PvP was really popular, a lot of people talk about gauntlgrym and icewind dale pvp, which was strongly coupled with PvE.
For me personally, what I really liked about prem16 PvP was that it was somewhat fast paced, but people didn't die in 2 seconds. I wish we could bring some of that combat experience back, and have some balance. I would really like there to be a balance for PvP, and a balance for PvE, even if it meant basically copy-pasting a large portion of the code base initially, or just doing something like PvP::SomeAttack = PvE::SomeAttack and only creating a pvp definition when needed.
As for balance in PvP, it needs a serious holistic twice over, from the fundamentals such as how basic damage and healing formulas work (remember, we're not going up against a boss with 2 billion HP who does 500k dmg in one hit), to how each individual class mechanic, power, and feat interacts w.r.t. Player vs. Player combat.
And again, sources of self healing need to be looked at seriously, they have a place, but if you look at most PvP builds right now on live, they all have a similar thing in common, stack HP, deflect, use shadow clad, and Self heals including insignia bonuses. Where they diverge is either using Defense rings, or offense rings, so either stacking more defense or more armpen/crit. Thats it. Why are self heals so potent? Should they exist at all? Should they be less potent only in PvP? Should they be less potent in general? This includes the lionguard chest piece from TiC, 5% hp every 5 seconds chance on crits, stuff like this is what makes some players nearly immortal, it's not that they have all maxed enchants or even a leg mount, it's the self heals, and that they have a class with high magnitude powers.
Pve players: "Stop investing in PvP, get rid of it!" Pvp players: "Have you noticed the size of the general population and popularity of the game dropping along with that of PvP?"
I don't have the numbers, but if they did a simple statistical analysis on their player numbers and the pvp population, there may be a correlation there. Pvp'ers who stream or post youtube videos can be icons that get other people to play and maybe invest in pvp, and when those people lose interest in the game, so does a large portion of the general population. This has certainly been true for me, watching Pvp videos on youtube is what got me into pvp, and pvp is what kept me in the game. Depending on the numbers, it may make complete business sense to revive the competitive pvp population, even if atm, the pvp population is low.
I may have been wrong, maybe it's a good thing to have some coupling between PvE and PvP. What I mean is if we look back to when PvP was really popular, a lot of people talk about gauntlgrym and icewind dale pvp, which was strongly coupled with PvE.
For me personally, what I really liked about prem16 PvP was that it was somewhat fast paced, but people didn't die in 2 seconds. I wish we could bring some of that combat experience back, and have some balance. I would really like there to be a balance for PvP, and a balance for PvE, even if it meant basically copy-pasting a large portion of the code base initially, or just doing something like PvP::SomeAttack = PvE::SomeAttack and only creating a pvp definition when needed.
if streamers were going to save pvp it would have been done already. the people that left aren't coming back. pvp'ers are notorious for moving on to the next shiny toy after awhile. they don't tend to go back other than a nostalgia weekend.
pvp is dead in this game and it seems like a lot of people are in the various stages of grief over it. your post reads like the bargaining stage.
Pve players: "Stop investing in PvP, get rid of it!" Pvp players: "Have you noticed the size of the general population and popularity of the game dropping along with that of PvP?"
I don't have the numbers, but if they did a simple statistical analysis on their player numbers and the pvp population, there may be a correlation there. Pvp'ers who stream or post youtube videos can be icons that get other people to play and maybe invest in pvp, and when those people lose interest in the game, so does a large portion of the general population. This has certainly been true for me, watching Pvp videos on youtube is what got me into pvp, and pvp is what kept me in the game. Depending on the numbers, it may make complete business sense to revive the competitive pvp population, even if atm, the pvp population is low.
I may have been wrong, maybe it's a good thing to have some coupling between PvE and PvP. What I mean is if we look back to when PvP was really popular, a lot of people talk about gauntlgrym and icewind dale pvp, which was strongly coupled with PvE.
For me personally, what I really liked about prem16 PvP was that it was somewhat fast paced, but people didn't die in 2 seconds. I wish we could bring some of that combat experience back, and have some balance. I would really like there to be a balance for PvP, and a balance for PvE, even if it meant basically copy-pasting a large portion of the code base initially, or just doing something like PvP::SomeAttack = PvE::SomeAttack and only creating a pvp definition when needed.
if streamers were going to save pvp it would have been done already. the people that left aren't coming back. pvp'ers are notorious for moving on to the next shiny toy after awhile. they don't tend to go back other than a nostalgia weekend.
pvp is dead in this game and it seems like a lot of people are in the various stages of grief over it. your post reads like the bargaining stage.
This is what I'm talking about, there may be real value in PvP, business wise. Idk, I don't have the numbers over time, neither does this guy. Neither of us can make any claims as to what is true. Cryptic and PWE can. And if they determine that it's worthwhile to try and revive PvP, then maybe it is. It would be relativly simple for them to determine if there is in fact a correlation between pvp population and the overall popularity of the game. I think people like this have been a real problem with this game, being very vocal and forcing changes, with no real insights as to how those changes will actually affect the game, and look at were we are now, it's not just pvp that is in a dismal state, the whole game is, and they know it, they had to hire a totally new lead because things were so bad. Just remember the mess m16 was at launch, that had nothing to do with PvP and was mostly an attempt to sweep all the problems they had with balance under the rug.
It's not an attempt to bargain, it's an attempt to try and find the essence of what makes PvP fun. It's attempt to get the company to look at the numbers, not at my, or your opinion on the matter.
Pve players: "Stop investing in PvP, get rid of it!" Pvp players: "Have you noticed the size of the general population and popularity of the game dropping along with that of PvP?"
I don't have the numbers, but if they did a simple statistical analysis on their player numbers and the pvp population, there may be a correlation there. Pvp'ers who stream or post youtube videos can be icons that get other people to play and maybe invest in pvp, and when those people lose interest in the game, so does a large portion of the general population. This has certainly been true for me, watching Pvp videos on youtube is what got me into pvp, and pvp is what kept me in the game. Depending on the numbers, it may make complete business sense to revive the competitive pvp population, even if atm, the pvp population is low.
I may have been wrong, maybe it's a good thing to have some coupling between PvE and PvP. What I mean is if we look back to when PvP was really popular, a lot of people talk about gauntlgrym and icewind dale pvp, which was strongly coupled with PvE.
For me personally, what I really liked about prem16 PvP was that it was somewhat fast paced, but people didn't die in 2 seconds. I wish we could bring some of that combat experience back, and have some balance. I would really like there to be a balance for PvP, and a balance for PvE, even if it meant basically copy-pasting a large portion of the code base initially, or just doing something like PvP::SomeAttack = PvE::SomeAttack and only creating a pvp definition when needed.
if streamers were going to save pvp it would have been done already. the people that left aren't coming back. pvp'ers are notorious for moving on to the next shiny toy after awhile. they don't tend to go back other than a nostalgia weekend.
pvp is dead in this game and it seems like a lot of people are in the various stages of grief over it. your post reads like the bargaining stage.
This is what I'm talking about, there may be real value in PvP, business wise. Idk, I don't have the numbers over time, neither does this guy. Neither of us can make any claims as to what is true. Cryptic and PWE can. And if they determine that it's worthwhile to try and revive PvP, then maybe it is. It would be relativly simple for them to determine if there is in fact a correlation between pvp population and the overall popularity of the game. I think people like this have been a real problem with this game, being very vocal and forcing changes, with no real insights as to how those changes will actually affect the game, and look at were we are now, it's not just pvp that is in a dismal state, the whole game is, and they know it, they had to hire a totally new lead because things were so bad. Just remember the mess m16 was at launch, that had nothing to do with PvP and was mostly an attempt to sweep all the problems they had with balance under the rug.
It's not an attempt to bargain, it's an attempt to try and find the essence of what makes PvP fun. It's attempt to get the company to look at the numbers, not at my, or your opinion on the matter.
we kind of do have the numbers though. all the people that are playing pvp are in the leaderboards. last I counted a week or so ago there were 148 on xbox total. I didn't count the repeats of various chars but I know they are there.
that's hard numbers and they are LOW.
2
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
well the price of rank 15/14 enchants and weapons just tanked and the PVE market crashed and now power is for sale ... there goes the pvp gear gap issues/PAY TO WIN lol
CARS ...UMMM Rank 15s for everyone .... you get a rank 15 and you get RANK 15 AND YOU GET A RANK 15 LOL
I hope you have time to read through these comments. I played neverwinter since early 2013 and spent a large amount of time in PvP Domination over the years, eventually took a break for 4 years and now returning to the game.
I've now spent 6 months playing the game and gearing up so that i may PvP again. After reading the proposed changes it just feels like an easy option to not fix the PvP which we already have.
We are playing an MMO not counterstrike - Character progression/gear and builds are super important and when you have sunk alot of time and AD into that character but cant use it in PvP, then whats the point?
This proposed mode of PvP should only be a seasonal event. Chicken PvP while it was fun in the short term will never give the same experience the current PvP gives and will get old very quickly.
Remove the Solo queue in Domination and rework the rewards to give players incentives in the current state. Use your resources wisely to fix what we have. This will be a huge step in the right direction.
Greetings all , as you all know PVP has been in a declining state for a while now and what reason may this be? There are lots but some of the most important ones are the solo dom Que which promotes individuality as currently you only need 5 matches to get ranked and get those rewards at the end of the season. This is why many people on the leader boards have alts because it simply isn't fun to face by yourself in a match where there might be 3 healers or 5 BiS players so you get in and dip for the month; Where are the teams , the unity , unless you ask a rival guild to get their best players and Que sync then good luck finding a formidable team to face off against testing your hard earned enchantments , gear , and skill ...
- Thoughts on new mode: I guess , I will give it a shot as what else is there to do but with that our characters be it endgame or starting is just thrown to the side and stripped of its hard earned time building it, ranking it up , brainstorming ways to get certain stats high enough only to que up with preset characters...
- Potential: I'm merely stating the obvious and am not trying to bash anyone. There used to be constant groups which can be 2 or 3+ players that would que up and destroy full premades. SHS and Gauntlgrym however bad or good you consider it to be used to be active. It caused a lot of attention within the community and spurred tournaments for big prizes when all the players would be ready. Icewind Pass war is what I called it had multiple guilds showing up everyday to face off testing companions , builds etc.. All these ques are wastelands now sitting there rotting
- Future as it stands: With no intention of delivering what the people want and no passion/ shown from the devs what could possible keep players interested in what is to come in the following months/years..
Some post by these players below are still relevant as they pose answers that still apply today and bring up problems that are still going .. These post even tell us that we've been SPEAKING up for change for years and have still not come close to a great system. -metalldjt -julianalz55 -barbie#2808 -heraldfayez#8520
the pvp people that left are never coming back. a 5 year old game doesn't suddenly develop a thriving pvp population.
This is false, while it is true that PVP is unlikely to ever have the same numbers it did at its height, you definitely can get a lot of old PVPers to return and also gain more newer players, a surprising list of old PVP players already came back over the last 6 months. This was a chain reaction that started from EOA convincing a few of their freinds to return to active play, more and more old faces have been coming back ever since. Most of the returning players don't care much for solo que but they do inhouses and duels and have been actively working on their characters for months now.
We've also seen a lot of tower of the mad mage players start getting into PVP and vice versa, many of them stuck around and they make up a sizable chunk of the solo que population. Some of them are fairly new to PVP and others used to PVP a long time ago and only recently got hooked on it again.
What we need is to bring in more new players in a way that doesn't cause us to lose more of the old players than we gain in new players. The heros PVP proposal will likely drive away many of the current PVP regulars and make it harder to bring in the ones still sitting on the fence. What is less clear is how many new players we will gain from the hero's PVP. We will probably gain some new players from heros PVP but its not likely to be as many as we were hoping for and because of heros PVP being really simple and easy to master, it may not be able to hook players for very long, both new and old. This heros PVP que is likely to slow down a lot in the future as people get bored of it.
This is why it makes more sense to work on the old PVP system where you play as the more complex and challenging characters we made rather than make heros/chicken PVP a permanant thing. There need to be adjustments made to reduce the gear gap between starting players and veteran players and improve conditions in PVP in general but there are numerous other options we brought up in this thread for that.
Post edited by trgluestickz on
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
6
feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
The reasons I don't pvp anymore: 1) Class balance has always been atrocious. 2) The devs seems to pay no attention to my class, and when they do they always do things no one in the class wants. Mod 16 was the latest in a long line of examples of thoughtless neglect and/or mismanagement of the ranger class, apparently completely ignoring longstanding player concerns (tiny dodge, no survivability, slow movement, no stamina regeneration, abilities that just plain don't work, long slow animations, underpowered control, healing and tanking abilities, nonfunctional stealth, I could go on). 3) Constant rug-pulling with gear and builds wore me out. I'm not interested in piling up 200k glory or whatever to get the latest pvp gear just in time to have to re-gear and re-build all over again. 4) Tired of dealing with the same old obnoxious obsessive-compulsives, always playing the EZ Mode classes and/or taking advantage of overpowered mechanics. 5) Sick of the dev team doubling down on bad ideas ever since mod 6. Power and HP creep, misguided class changes, mechanics dependent on gear, bound everything,
I never cared about the leaderboard. If the leaderboard is a problem, get rid of it entirely. We didn't have it until mod 5 if I recall correctly and that was around when things started to go downhill.
My solution: Wind the game back to mod 2 and add the newer classes and races. Rebalance races so meaningless things like campfire bonuses are replaced with things that are useful. Make pvp an entirely separate game if (as they certainly are) unwilling to wind pve back. No HP or mechanics in gear. Let players earn significant AD by pvping. Reduce all enchantment ranks above 10 to rank 10.
There's probably no real solution to afkers and drama queens other than outnumbering them in the community, but paying attention to reports of their misbehavior would help.
But none of this is going to happen, which is a pity.
My name is Aizu. I'll quickly share some pointers. This is coming from one of the most seasoned healers in Neverwinter PvP. Ask around, and maybe they'll agree.
1 - Remove RNG. Examples are invisibility and damage resistance on shadowclad. PvP is not reliant on skill because fights are also determined on whether someone critically strikes or deflects. It's luck and the severities are too high or the powers are not skill shots (i.e. TR daily with instant activation).
2 - Balance classes by asking seasoned players. This is in regards to magnitudes, class mechanics, powers etc. Here is an example: The smokebomb from TRs have too long duration, or too big radius, but it also doesn't show the red circle until much later. This power alone is overpowered. There is a reason why the leaderboards are filled of mostly select classes.
3 - Balance out at least armour enchants and weapon enchants. There are more, but this is a start.
4 - The new NPC pvp will kill the player base for pvp even more. The positive feedback for chicken and npc pvp is given by non-seasoned pvp players. This means q'ing for ordinary pvp will be even harder to balance and to actually make happen.
5 - Remove solo q. Let people join pvp in party. Who likes to join pvp and gamble on luck to get guildies in their team, or even worse, opposite team, all in order to try climb the leaderboard.
6 - I want to compliment the devs for making healing less dominant in PvP in mod 19, assuming this is the case. Make single target heal skill shot and AoE heals having less magnitude, which I think you did.
7 - Get back stamina and AP gain in pvp. Remove the stamina bar. Why have the stamina bar for PvE? Showing stamina bar in PvP lowers the skill in PvP even more.
8 - Make more rewards for PvP. Let us get something worth our time other than 15 min of fun or un-fun if our guildies get on the other team. It's not even possible to q up as 5 players anymore.
PvE content gives rewards. Let PvP do so too. The trophies at the end of a pvp season is good, assuming the q is balanced, which it's not (unfortunately). But as the rewards are now, the pvp is a chore for pvp players to get high enough rank to get the rewards all on the basis of pug-luck. Let each match give some reward worth our time.
Regards Aizu who plays Neverwinter only for PvP.
In the past they have tried to do class balances for PvP. It's just messed up the PVE balance and visa versa. If that is what is needed for it, then it should be completely separated from the rest of the game so it can be exclusive. Maybe that is why they are looking at the premade stuff. I know you like to do PVE and so do many others, but it is still a very small number compared to the PVE folks. In this case I have to say that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I've played this game since Sharandar came out and with the exception of IWD, it has always been a very small audience compared to PVE.
well the price of rank 15/14 enchants and weapons just tanked and the PVE market crashed and now power is for sale ... there goes the pvp gear gap issues/PAY TO WIN lol
CARS ...UMMM Rank 15s for everyone .... you get a rank 15 and you get RANK 15 AND YOU GET A RANK 15 LOL
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not but I'm so tired of people saying or using the term PAY TO WIN. Every single "free to play" is like that. If it wasn't for the folks that spend money this game would've gone belly up years ago. Companies have to make money or go bankrupt. Cryptic surely doesn't have advertiser spamming us so yeah I'm glad I spend for my VIP and booster packs to complete mods faster. sorry for the rant
1
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
well the price of rank 15/14 enchants and weapons just tanked and the PVE market crashed and now power is for sale ... there goes the pvp gear gap issues/PAY TO WIN lol
CARS ...UMMM Rank 15s for everyone .... you get a rank 15 and you get RANK 15 AND YOU GET A RANK 15 LOL
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not but I'm so tired of people saying or using the term PAY TO WIN. Every single "free to play" is like that. If it wasn't for the folks that spend money this game would've gone belly up years ago. Companies have to make money or go bankrupt. Cryptic surely doesn't have advertiser spamming us so yeah I'm glad I spend for my VIP and booster packs to complete mods faster. sorry for the rant
if you cant tell if i was being sarcastic or not then I achieved my goal : D
the subtext is that by cryptic lowering the cost of the best enchantments in pve by flooding the market it lowers the gear gap barrier/ threshold / cost to complete / gear barrier issues for pvp therefore people can no longer say its pay to win as the excuse why they play like hamster /get smashed ..
the enchantments for everyone was a reference to Oprah Winfrey giving cars to everyone on her show . just like cryptic was handing out enchantments like candy in the zen market combined with the 30% sale or even 50% if you had the coupon ..also devaluing all the stockpiles people were holding of these items and crashing the market value for them ..but on the flip side that is also good for pvp : D
I haven't PvPed for a very long time. For me to even consider touching it again would mean there would have to be a casual, non-endgame version of it to play as my characters. The idea of playing as anything else is not necessarily bad (If the rewards are there), but just seems more like a once in awhile event thing IMO.
I asked my wife (who only PvPed one, maybe two matches and never went back) what it would take for her to try it again. She likes the idea of a Legends version, but didn't know if she would play it much. She liked the idea of a royale style PvP better, where equipment was looted from chests during the fight.
I think all the balance issues could have been solved long ago through equipment alone. Everyone starts with a base amount of currency and equipment. You upgrade or buy new gear with that currency. This can be made as simple or complex as wanted and had the potential to make all pre M16 paragon paths for every class viable (without affecting pve). Alas, that ship has sailed.
No matter what direction this goes, if all that is available is domination on the same old maps........meh.
I would be happier with the option to play as a druid, bard, monk, and sorcerer along with all the other core classes.
0
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited June 2020
and.. this is what pvp in the new mod gets after feedback ...:P well you cant say the devs did not buff rewards ...
PvP
The PvP Seasonal Store will now offer Rank 13 Enchants and Runestones, and Rank 12 Armor/Weapon Enchantments, replacing their old Rank 10 offerings. The price remains the same.
I used to play this game exclusively for the PvP; I absolutely love it. I am back in the game now and interested in PvP, but there is a major barrier keeping me out, and that is my gear. I have a guild this time around and want to compete in PvE content, and that takes up most of my play time. Gearing specifically for PvP, especially when it's so hard to find a community to assist and guide in this regard, is very difficult.
I have been kicked from games for having PvE-based gear, because the people who are actively PvPing don't want their scores to suffer due to an unfit Wizard getting 1-shot all the time; this I understand.
I believe we should have BiS pvp gear (at least for Armor) and some options in artifacts, etc. that are created solely for the PvP experience. This gear should be attainable in a reasonable way; we have to assume that most players will have a barrier to entry to get into PvP matches and be viable off the bat, so perhaps a PvP quest that gives an introductory set of armor that levels as you get kills, capture points, etc. would be options to put forward. I also think PvP should have tiers, but that also requires a healthy player base. The refocus on PvP, for me, is admirable.
As for the new premade system, I think it's going to be great. Not only does it allow for anyone to access PvP and see how fun it is, but it also allows developers a chance to test out things, like new abilities, classes, and racial abilities. What I'd like to see is rewards in premade granting armor/items that will allow someone to outfit their own character in PvP viable gear. Your entry point is the premade games. Those premade games lead into being able to build your own PvP character and compete against the masses as your own character. This is the best solution and will bring more people in, if not just for the boons, for the fun of the experience.
2
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
I used to play this game exclusively for the PvP; I absolutely love it. I am back in the game now and interested in PvP, but there is a major barrier keeping me out, and that is my gear. I have a guild this time around and want to compete in PvE content, and that takes up most of my play time. Gearing specifically for PvP, especially when it's so hard to find a community to assist and guide in this regard, is very difficult.
I have been kicked from games for having PvE-based gear, because the people who are actively PvPing don't want their scores to suffer due to an unfit Wizard getting 1-shot all the time; this I understand.
I believe we should have BiS pvp gear (at least for Armor) and some options in artifacts, etc. that are created solely for the PvP experience. This gear should be attainable in a reasonable way; we have to assume that most players will have a barrier to entry to get into PvP matches and be viable off the bat, so perhaps a PvP quest that gives an introductory set of armor that levels as you get kills, capture points, etc. would be options to put forward. I also think PvP should have tiers, but that also requires a healthy player base. The refocus on PvP, for me, is admirable.
As for the new premade system, I think it's going to be great. Not only does it allow for anyone to access PvP and see how fun it is, but it also allows developers a chance to test out things, like new abilities, classes, and racial abilities. What I'd like to see is rewards in premade granting armor/items that will allow someone to outfit their own character in PvP viable gear. Your entry point is the premade games. Those premade games lead into being able to build your own PvP character and compete against the masses as your own character. This is the best solution and will bring more people in, if not just for the boons, for the fun of the experience.
the last thing the half of one dev allocated to pvp need to do is to test out things, like new abilities, classes, and racial abilities.they already have enough on their plate...they cant even balance the classes they already have in pvp or pve .. and they want to create 11 more custom classes for cookie cutter pvp lol
I applaud you for any effort you make to bring about a better pvp scene in Neverwinter.
I'm returning after a 5 year hiatus. When I played PVP was my secret focus. PVE to PVP was always the strategy. Find parts in PVE content that would make me viable for PVP and grind out the boons.
There is so many suggestions I have but I'm going to focus on just a couple with this post.
1. Legendary Mounts. What you have done with Mounts, insignias, and legendary mount use abilities has atrocious implications for PVP. Not having a legendary mount with an ability means you're gimped in PVP, you essentially have a blank slot. You always knew better than to allow companions into pvp, what made you think mount abilities weren't going to wreck the cash vs casual balance?
I suggest a mount upgrade. Make a new 2 insignia combo that can be wore on all mounts. The special pvp insignia you need to put in there grant your mount a new ability that increases glory by 10%, increases control resist by 10%, and damage resistance to critical hits by 10% for one minute, and creates a small aoe for 400 magnitude damage with pushback as your mount roars.
Note that I didn't bother with speed and that the mount use ability really only affects pvp. We don't want to gut the value of legendary mounts, just bring back some of the balance you've sacrificed.
2. In my opinion you need to implement PVP gear. With other games having pvp gear that can be used in pve, but gives players special resistances vs other players, we need this too. The resistance needs to be such that even in best in slot gear a player would prefer to have the resistances to other players effects rather than the hp and power that is offered by PVE gear.
3. Capture the flag! We need it more than any other pvp game type. No mounts, attacks, or sprint while carrying. Really just make it as much like Warsong gulch as you can. Capture the flag should be possible to have incredibly quick games, which makes it so much fun.
The "flag" could even be elemental seeds that when the player scores summons an elemental to defend or attack!
Or the flag could be dragon eggs and returning them summons a flyby attack from a flight of dragons!
Again, thank you for adding some enticing rewards.
Comments
wait for it .... ............. PvP balance ..... oMg lol
got any examples for us instead of conjecture ??
neither of the 2 items you have sighted have been touched much at all cause of pvp LOL
what item "stuff" are you using that you "believe" is nerfed cause of pvp ?
*puts on tin foil hat *
So, quite frankly, I don't care how PvP is changed, or even if it is removed altogether, as long as it does not affect me in any way, which means:
- Changes to gameplay or classes for the sake of PvP should not affect PvE gameplay in any way.
- PvP rewards should not include items that are seen as BiS for PvE purposes.
- PvP should be totally optional - leave it for those who want it.
Having said this, I do have one comment.The big question right now is basically which segment of the playerbase are the PvP changes aimed at. If the goal is to make the current "hardcore" PvPers happy, and get back those who have left because of dissatisfaction, I have some doubts the proposed changes will do the trick. Those players have been asking for entirely different things. IF you want to make PvP more attractive to "casual" PvPers, the proposed changes may do that in the short term - but whether you will be able to maintain their interest longer term is a big, big question. If you want to make PvP attractive to "pure-PvE" players I think your efforts are misguided.
PS:
As I make fun of this CDP that's exactly what you do with us fortunately we are not all sheep to follow the herd. Close that ***** tnx
honestly with those numbers I wonder why they're spending the time on it as a project. That seems pretty dead to me.
Barring the way they said they're going to do it where you have a preassigned load out as the chicken thing was.. I don't see how they're going to "grow" pvp.. the rewards aren't bad. but it's such a bad experience people are like, naw. hard pass.
the only way to balance pvp in a game like this one is to equalize things. and it also accomplishes the goal of not messing with pve things to do balance pvp. I think it's a great change (if there is really a need to keep it at all. ) I actually can see it growing a little more than it is now that way.
the pvp people that left are never coming back. a 5 year old game doesn't suddenly develop a thriving pvp population.
Pvp players: "Have you noticed the size of the general population and popularity of the game dropping along with that of PvP?"
I don't have the numbers, but if they did a simple statistical analysis on their player numbers and the pvp population, there may be a correlation there. Pvp'ers who stream or post youtube videos can be icons that get other people to play and maybe invest in pvp, and when those people lose interest in the game, so does a large portion of the general population. This has certainly been true for me, watching Pvp videos on youtube is what got me into pvp, and pvp is what kept me in the game. Depending on the numbers, it may make complete business sense to revive the competitive pvp population, even if atm, the pvp population is low.
I may have been wrong, maybe it's a good thing to have some coupling between PvE and PvP. What I mean is if we look back to when PvP was really popular, a lot of people talk about gauntlgrym and icewind dale pvp, which was strongly coupled with PvE.
For me personally, what I really liked about prem16 PvP was that it was somewhat fast paced, but people didn't die in 2 seconds. I wish we could bring some of that combat experience back, and have some balance. I would really like there to be a balance for PvP, and a balance for PvE, even if it meant basically copy-pasting a large portion of the code base initially, or just doing something like
PvP::SomeAttack = PvE::SomeAttackand only creating a pvp definition when needed.As for balance in PvP, it needs a serious holistic twice over, from the fundamentals such as how basic damage and healing formulas work (remember, we're not going up against a boss with 2 billion HP who does 500k dmg in one hit), to how each individual class mechanic, power, and feat interacts w.r.t. Player vs. Player combat.
And again, sources of self healing need to be looked at seriously, they have a place, but if you look at most PvP builds right now on live, they all have a similar thing in common, stack HP, deflect, use shadow clad, and Self heals including insignia bonuses. Where they diverge is either using Defense rings, or offense rings, so either stacking more defense or more armpen/crit. Thats it. Why are self heals so potent? Should they exist at all? Should they be less potent only in PvP? Should they be less potent in general? This includes the lionguard chest piece from TiC, 5% hp every 5 seconds chance on crits, stuff like this is what makes some players nearly immortal, it's not that they have all maxed enchants or even a leg mount, it's the self heals, and that they have a class with high magnitude powers.
pvp is dead in this game and it seems like a lot of people are in the various stages of grief over it. your post reads like the bargaining stage.
It's not an attempt to bargain, it's an attempt to try and find the essence of what makes PvP fun. It's attempt to get the company to look at the numbers, not at my, or your opinion on the matter.
that's hard numbers and they are LOW.
CARS ...UMMM Rank 15s for everyone .... you get a rank 15 and you get RANK 15 AND YOU GET A RANK 15 LOL
I hope you have time to read through these comments. I played neverwinter since early 2013 and spent a large amount of time in PvP Domination over the years, eventually took a break for 4 years and now returning to the game.
I've now spent 6 months playing the game and gearing up so that i may PvP again. After reading the proposed changes it just feels like an easy option to not fix the PvP which we already have.
We are playing an MMO not counterstrike - Character progression/gear and builds are super important and when you have sunk alot of time and AD into that character but cant use it in PvP, then whats the point?
This proposed mode of PvP should only be a seasonal event. Chicken PvP while it was fun in the short term will never give the same experience the current PvP gives and will get old very quickly.
Remove the Solo queue in Domination and rework the rewards to give players incentives in the current state. Use your resources wisely to fix what we have. This will be a huge step in the right direction.
No need to reinvent the pvp wheel.
Essence of Aggression
- Thoughts on new mode: I guess , I will give it a shot as what else is there to do but with that our characters be it endgame or starting is just thrown to the side and stripped of its hard earned time building it, ranking it up , brainstorming ways to get certain stats high enough only to que up with preset characters...
- Potential: I'm merely stating the obvious and am not trying to bash anyone. There used to be constant groups which can be 2 or 3+ players that would que up and destroy full premades. SHS and Gauntlgrym however bad or good you consider it to be used to be active. It caused a lot of attention within the community and spurred tournaments for big prizes when all the players would be ready. Icewind Pass war is what I called it had multiple guilds showing up everyday to face off testing companions , builds etc.. All these ques are wastelands now sitting there rotting
- Future as it stands: With no intention of delivering what the people want and no passion/ shown from the devs what could possible keep players interested in what is to come in the following months/years..
Some post by these players below are still relevant as they pose answers that still apply today and bring up problems that are still going .. These post even tell us that we've been SPEAKING up for change for years and have still not come close to a great system.
-metalldjt
-julianalz55
-barbie#2808
-heraldfayez#8520
-From
Elite Not Elitist
We've also seen a lot of tower of the mad mage players start getting into PVP and vice versa, many of them stuck around and they make up a sizable chunk of the solo que population. Some of them are fairly new to PVP and others used to PVP a long time ago and only recently got hooked on it again.
What we need is to bring in more new players in a way that doesn't cause us to lose more of the old players than we gain in new players. The heros PVP proposal will likely drive away many of the current PVP regulars and make it harder to bring in the ones still sitting on the fence. What is less clear is how many new players we will gain from the hero's PVP. We will probably gain some new players from heros PVP but its not likely to be as many as we were hoping for and because of heros PVP being really simple and easy to master, it may not be able to hook players for very long, both new and old. This heros PVP que is likely to slow down a lot in the future as people get bored of it.
This is why it makes more sense to work on the old PVP system where you play as the more complex and challenging characters we made rather than make heros/chicken PVP a permanant thing. There need to be adjustments made to reduce the gear gap between starting players and veteran players and improve conditions in PVP in general but there are numerous other options we brought up in this thread for that.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
1) Class balance has always been atrocious.
2) The devs seems to pay no attention to my class, and when they do they always do things no one in the class wants. Mod 16 was the latest in a long line of examples of thoughtless neglect and/or mismanagement of the ranger class, apparently completely ignoring longstanding player concerns (tiny dodge, no survivability, slow movement, no stamina regeneration, abilities that just plain don't work, long slow animations, underpowered control, healing and tanking abilities, nonfunctional stealth, I could go on).
3) Constant rug-pulling with gear and builds wore me out. I'm not interested in piling up 200k glory or whatever to get the latest pvp gear just in time to have to re-gear and re-build all over again.
4) Tired of dealing with the same old obnoxious obsessive-compulsives, always playing the EZ Mode classes and/or taking advantage of overpowered mechanics.
5) Sick of the dev team doubling down on bad ideas ever since mod 6. Power and HP creep, misguided class changes, mechanics dependent on gear, bound everything,
I never cared about the leaderboard. If the leaderboard is a problem, get rid of it entirely. We didn't have it until mod 5 if I recall correctly and that was around when things started to go downhill.
My solution: Wind the game back to mod 2 and add the newer classes and races. Rebalance races so meaningless things like campfire bonuses are replaced with things that are useful. Make pvp an entirely separate game if (as they certainly are) unwilling to wind pve back. No HP or mechanics in gear. Let players earn significant AD by pvping. Reduce all enchantment ranks above 10 to rank 10.
There's probably no real solution to afkers and drama queens other than outnumbering them in the community, but paying attention to reports of their misbehavior would help.
But none of this is going to happen, which is a pity.
the subtext is that by cryptic lowering the cost of the best enchantments in pve by flooding the market it lowers the gear gap barrier/ threshold / cost to complete / gear barrier issues for pvp therefore people can no longer say its pay to win as the excuse why they play like hamster /get smashed ..
the enchantments for everyone was a reference to Oprah Winfrey giving cars to everyone on her show .
just like cryptic was handing out enchantments like candy in the zen market combined with the 30% sale or even 50% if you had the coupon ..also devaluing all the stockpiles people were holding of these items and crashing the market value for them ..but on the flip side that is also good for pvp : D
(hope y'll get the sarcasm)
I asked my wife (who only PvPed one, maybe two matches and never went back) what it would take for her to try it again. She likes the idea of a Legends version, but didn't know if she would play it much. She liked the idea of a royale style PvP better, where equipment was looted from chests during the fight.
I think all the balance issues could have been solved long ago through equipment alone. Everyone starts with a base amount of currency and equipment. You upgrade or buy new gear with that currency. This can be made as simple or complex as wanted and had the potential to make all pre M16 paragon paths for every class viable (without affecting pve). Alas, that ship has sailed.
No matter what direction this goes, if all that is available is domination on the same old maps........meh.
I would be happier with the option to play as a druid, bard, monk, and sorcerer along with all the other core classes.
PvP
The PvP Seasonal Store will now offer Rank 13 Enchants and Runestones, and Rank 12 Armor/Weapon Enchantments, replacing their old Rank 10 offerings. The price remains the same.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/11469683
I have been kicked from games for having PvE-based gear, because the people who are actively PvPing don't want their scores to suffer due to an unfit Wizard getting 1-shot all the time; this I understand.
I believe we should have BiS pvp gear (at least for Armor) and some options in artifacts, etc. that are created solely for the PvP experience. This gear should be attainable in a reasonable way; we have to assume that most players will have a barrier to entry to get into PvP matches and be viable off the bat, so perhaps a PvP quest that gives an introductory set of armor that levels as you get kills, capture points, etc. would be options to put forward. I also think PvP should have tiers, but that also requires a healthy player base. The refocus on PvP, for me, is admirable.
As for the new premade system, I think it's going to be great. Not only does it allow for anyone to access PvP and see how fun it is, but it also allows developers a chance to test out things, like new abilities, classes, and racial abilities. What I'd like to see is rewards in premade granting armor/items that will allow someone to outfit their own character in PvP viable gear. Your entry point is the premade games. Those premade games lead into being able to build your own PvP character and compete against the masses as your own character. This is the best solution and will bring more people in, if not just for the boons, for the fun of the experience.
is to test out things, like new abilities, classes, and racial abilities.they already have enough on their plate...they cant even balance the classes they already have in pvp or pve .. and they want to create 11 more custom classes for cookie cutter pvp lol
I applaud you for any effort you make to bring about a better pvp scene in Neverwinter.
I'm returning after a 5 year hiatus. When I played PVP was my secret focus. PVE to PVP was always the strategy. Find parts in PVE content that would make me viable for PVP and grind out the boons.
There is so many suggestions I have but I'm going to focus on just a couple with this post.
1. Legendary Mounts. What you have done with Mounts, insignias, and legendary mount use abilities has atrocious implications for PVP. Not having a legendary mount with an ability means you're gimped in PVP, you essentially have a blank slot. You always knew better than to allow companions into pvp, what made you think mount abilities weren't going to wreck the cash vs casual balance?
I suggest a mount upgrade. Make a new 2 insignia combo that can be wore on all mounts. The special pvp insignia you need to put in there grant your mount a new ability that increases glory by 10%, increases control resist by 10%, and damage resistance to critical hits by 10% for one minute, and creates a small aoe for 400 magnitude damage with pushback as your mount roars.
Note that I didn't bother with speed and that the mount use ability really only affects pvp. We don't want to gut the value of legendary mounts, just bring back some of the balance you've sacrificed.
2. In my opinion you need to implement PVP gear. With other games having pvp gear that can be used in pve, but gives players special resistances vs other players, we need this too. The resistance needs to be such that even in best in slot gear a player would prefer to have the resistances to other players effects rather than the hp and power that is offered by PVE gear.
3. Capture the flag! We need it more than any other pvp game type. No mounts, attacks, or sprint while carrying. Really just make it as much like Warsong gulch as you can. Capture the flag should be possible to have incredibly quick games, which makes it so much fun.
The "flag" could even be elemental seeds that when the player scores summons an elemental to defend or attack!
Or the flag could be dragon eggs and returning them summons a flyby attack from a flight of dragons!
Again, thank you for adding some enticing rewards.