Why can't they do something for us old timers?

ncc575859#9863 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
I miss the good old days when you could go into a dungeon and actually find quality stuff.. now you have to wait to do the "Epic" dungeons before you find half way decent item. I remember when you could gather around the table with your friends and plot everything on graph paper... with a pen or pencil.

and you did not have to worry about what level your gear was at.. you relied on your AC. So why can't the DEV's bring something for us old timers.. that did not have to deal with your "gear level" but with your AC...

It just seems to me that the game was ruined when you started using gear level to determine what Mod you could play in.. with this you need any where from 13000-25000 + to play and what I find the most unfair about this whole thing is the Avernus thing that everyone but those that don't have the proper gear level.

You never needed that in the old days.. you would adjust your AC . and another thing since i am doing this.. I also remember going into a dungeon, etc and not needing a "key" to open up a chest. I mean if you look in the AH you see all of those different things that need keys to open them up. I wish they would do away with those keys. It would make it a whole lot funner if you did not have to have keys to open this or that.

I just would like for Cryptic Studio/ Perfect World to make something that we old timers could relate to. because the new rules are confusing to me. Why can't they also make a players mode.. as an example. Easy mode, normal mode, and hard or die hard mode and adjust the XP's accordingly.

Don't get me wrong.. I love playing this game.. I love DND. But really if you DEV's read these things... Couldn't you all have an event that would take us back to the good old days when you did not need keys to open chests (not like now when you open one. you get health, and some items... ).. I mean opening up a chest and finding a +5 Vorpal sword type of stuff.. and you would not need a key or wait till you were playing the epic dungeons before you found better items... )

An event that would remind some of your old timers out there who remember the game.. sitting around the table, eating pizza, chips, etc... something that you would not discriminate against you just because your level of gear was not where the MOD is playable at. Which I still think should be done away with all together, but knowing that is not going to happen only makes me want more and more the way it used to be when the game meant something when you enjoyed playing it. Really.. I don't find the new rules that much enjoyable at all but still I am here, and I will play it even when I am up into my 90's.

But i will always remember the way DND was, not What it has become.

1: Make a MOD for us Original DNDer's to play.
2. Do away with needing keys to open up Wasteland,etc Boxes. ( if you don't think you have a problem.. look in the AH)
3. Fix Undermountain .. I was at the last three things to do ( I had help getting that far) and now It is virtually like running into a brick wall.. that transportation spell puts you and your group at different places.. and to tell you the truth.. I lost all interest in finishing it.
4. You need to adjust the price of the higher gear that you can get and make it easier for those that would like to get it, but can't. (you can still keep it at the level required to wear it for the PC's)
5, Stop discriminating against lower gear level players.
6 Adjust the Monster and beast HP's in the SH Area. newbies can not go out into the wilderness without getting killed all the time. Which means that some of the SH quests that Builder, Cleric, Ranger, etc give for you to do.. you can not.

My email responding to the GM who was helping me with a problem. was better explaining what I have been trying to do in this post.

But ultimately .. Please make something for us Old timer DND players.


  • tribbulater
    tribbulater Member Posts: 180 Arc User
    A couple thoughts. 'Adjusting your AC' involved getting better gear or stats or whatever, and as I recall that wasn't so easy to do unless your DM was in the habit of 'gimme' prizes for showing up to the game. The game isn't like original DnD and doesn't have the same rules... heck, DnD isn't like the original DnD anymore. so it's fairly hard to imagine what a mod for "Original DnDer's" would even look like.

    No keys for lockboxes is just crazy talk, it's likely what funds 30% of the game. If you're going to kick in the several million dollars a year this would cost, then feel free to ask for it.

    They already give away two sets of free gear at level 70, you can mix and match for the ones you like best and use those to do Undermountain to get better gear. With a few additional items the free gear also gets you into Random Skirmishes (14k IL). My younger brother literally started playing 3 months ago, was in the level 70 free gear in three weeks, spent a month running Undermountain, and is now running around in Avernus tanking fights looking for better gear.

    If you're having trouble on your own, join a decent guild and ask for some help and be willing to learn.

    Stronghold really isn't for 'newbie' chars, and they give you quite a few quests to be done outside the SH (Doing your Part, Support etc).

  • pitshade
    pitshade Member Posts: 5,420 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    As both a player of the original tabletop rules and from the Beta of this game, this isn't an attempt to recreate the tabletop experience. If you want an authentic tabletop style game, look in to the RollD20 or that new single player CRPG which is coming out soon.
    Post edited by pitshade on
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • wilbur626
    wilbur626 Member Posts: 1,000 Arc User
    Day of the dungeon master!!!!!!
    Elite Whaleboy
  • kharkov58
    kharkov58 Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    Day of the Dungeon Master is cancelled. At least this year.
  • ncc575859#9863
    ncc575859#9863 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    I know.. what your are saying.. lol.. and yes.. I know that this is no way or shape like it was back in the day.. but i guess. I just prefer the older version as for the couple of millions.. to fund this.. they get that from the sales of various items in the zen store.. and no.. I was thinking of all the lock boxes in AH.. have you looked in there? And I just remember things different than most of the younger people in here... and being over 60 I kind of understand some things about this game.. but the new rules are just a little confusing to me. I suppose that i could just ask you.. since you know how to play this newer version way far better than this old cowboy does.
    Am I complaining? Yes, I guess I am... It just would be better if when they did some of the events.. they would make them fairer for everyone... not just a few ... and yes.. they do give free gear, but even then you need to be able to afford the better gear.. And real life sometimes takes over.

    But I did find something that concerns me.. see I was always taught that you help each other when you are playing this game.. but apparently that has changed... I fell behind (because i was trying to make sure everyone else was with the group) and was overwhelmed. no one came back.

    Is that the new rules for playing this now? And to me.. this is kind of sad if everyone has that type of mindset these days.... In the old days you worked together. But I guess that has changed along with the new rules for playing DND.

    Oh.. I do belong to a very good guild.. and they did help me and would help me if I asked.. and for everyone's information.. I happen to be a minister in this guild.. so please don't bad mouth mine, because i did not bad mouth yours.

    I did not mean to start a revolution when I posted this. or cause those of you out there to get your anger up by my post.

    Frankly it was done just to express my missing the old days of this.. and nothing more. At least those days we could count on someone to lend aide when you needed it while playing.. and before you go and get your dander up anymore..If i am out there.. I always try to lend a hand when i see someone that is being overwhelmed.

    See I still remember the rules... I just wish some of those playing this would remember them to.
  • tribbulater
    tribbulater Member Posts: 180 Arc User
    The lockboxes in the AH are the ones that require the Enchanted Keys from the Zen store to open (Wasteland, Glorious Resurgence, Halaster's, Undying, the Descent, Mad Mage etc). They're the purple boxes that drop all super shiny and sparkly to make you think "Oh man I just gotta open that!". In Neverwinter they're probably one of the largest sellers in the Zen store. So the lock box keys actually do make up a very large part of Cryptic's income stream. If I've misunderstood and you're referring to some other box that should be openable free, please correct me.

    I didn't see your post as complaining so much as "I wish the game was something else that's a bit more nostalgic for me", so I was only pointing the things that are the way they are, not because they don't care about old-timers and vets, but simply due to the nature of being a business and a video game as opposed to a table-top RPG.

    People do help each other in the game, but for most random groups, speed usually trumps all. If people are forming random groups, they're usually looking to get a dungeon or skirmish done 'right now' so they can move on to the next thing. People run past groups instead of fight them, pull multiple groups together to AoE them all at once, blast off their AoE to half kill things and keep running, assuming that someone else's AoE will finish them.

    If you're running with a random group of people with unknown objectives, it makes a lot more sense to adapt to the way they're running the dungeon, than to wait for 4 random players to adapt to your style.

    Glad to hear you've got a good guild, it makes a world of difference.

    The primary difference I find between the 'good old days' and now, in gaming, is that people generally used to game with a group of friends where they all shared some notion of how the game was to be played, and they were there to enjoy the game. Not tick off their list of 6 things they need to get done during their 90 minutes of game time, with complete strangers, most of whom they'll never see again or even exchange a few words with.

    If you have a regular group you team with and run dungeons with and level with, that's a whole different experience than signing up for random dungeons with random people running the same content they've all run fifty times before.

  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,446 Arc User
    In short, you played table top game with friends. If you want similar experience, you play this game with friends.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • ncc575859#9863
    ncc575859#9863 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    I will adapt... lol.... I actually do like this game... it just is going to take a lot getting used to. And since I have played the Old style computer games. and then Icewind Dale 1, 2, heart of winter... as well as the Baldurs Gate, and of course the Neverwinter ones... and playing this one... as well as the table top games... lol.. I have a lot of catching up to speed with the new rules..

    But I do like this one... there are things I will learn to love about this.. I was just being Nostalgic I suppose in wanting things to be just a tad bit more understandable by myself.. and thank you for the explanation about all of those boxes in the AH... I actually was thinking.. cool... look at this... but having opened up a few.. and getting some pretty good enchantments.. but nothing to write home to the family about... LOL..... It just is.. yeah.. well let me see.. I have over 2000 of these.. and it is like opening up a fortune cookie... you never really know what you're going to get....and i need x amount of enchantment keys to open them all up.. I should be done with this first 2000 by sometime in the next Eon or so.... lol...

    It's like the joke about the lady who went to the doctor and told the doctor.
    Doctor I am worried about my husband.. he thinks he's a lawnmower.
    the doctor asked the lady how long had this been going on?
    And she told him for about a Year.
    "My God woman why didn't you bring him in sooner? asked the doctor..

    Well the neighbors just brought him back this morning. she exclaims.

    seriously thank you for your help in explaining some of the things about this game.. I know when i have played this just a little bit more.. I will begin to fully understand how things work. And if I have caused any bit of frustration, or have irked anyone with this post.. I really do apologize..

    Just being an old man trying to understand the newer workings of this..

  • ncc575859#9863
    ncc575859#9863 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    And one more joke to tell ya'll.

    A woman comes home to find her husband with a rolled up newspaper swinging it around his head.
    What are you doing? she asks.
    Well . he tells her. I have been swatting at flies and so far I have killed 5.. 3 male and 2 female.
    And just how in the world do you know that? she asks.

    Easy . says the husband... 3 were on the beer can and 2 were on the phone.
  • groo#6243
    groo#6243 Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    a/c did used to be in the game, but was removed several mods back now. In fact, the game has been leaning more an more towards 'video game' as time has gone on. Mod 16 introduced the biggest 'dumming down' of the game (there were reasons for those changes, but it wasn't a popular move and lost a lot of players).

    However, as tribbulator said, Neverwinter online has never been an attempt to recreate table top D&D. It was more about having recognised branding to promote the game with (that is a little harsh, but realistically, not far from the truth). I think the game Neverwinter Nights is meant to be a bit more D&D like, but I've never played it myself, so can't really say for sure.

    Having said this, I know there are people that play the game more for the atmosphere and to experience the world of the Forgotten Realms rather than to race through content and get to best in slot asap. In fact, I'm sure I saw a forum post that mentioned people using the Moonstone Mask as a place to meet up for a more RPG experience (assuming I didn't just imagine that). Either way, perhaps you should post asking for like minded people to play Neverwinter online with. Perhaps with the right group, you will get a little more out of the game.
  • tribbulater
    tribbulater Member Posts: 180 Arc User
    On the topic of lockboxes, they drop like flies and you'll never open all that drop (unless you win a lottery). They're also available pretty cheap on the exchange so you don't need to hoard. You can sell them for peanuts on the AH, or literally just toss them away from time to time to free up inventory space.

    You get one free Enchanted Key per day per account when you have VIP status turned on. VIP status has a lot of nice benefits that increase the more VIP months you've had. One of the nice things about VIP is that you can wait til your month is done, open a bunch of Glorious Resurgence lockboxes (usually one of the best ones to open, though they can be too common at times), sell most of the packs that drop out of them... and use the AD from selling to buy Zen on the Zen exchange to pay for your next month of VIP.

    (There are complications, like it takes a while to sell them, and it takes a month or more to get a trade through the Zen/Astral exchange, and you need storage space etc... but it can be done).

    When buying Zen, I wait for a Zen sale. When buying anything on the AH, I watch the prices for a while and buy when there's a good price showing. When buying anything from the Zen store, I either wait for a discount/sale, or worst case I save up a bunch of those little Prayer bags and open them until I get a Discount coupon for whatever I want to buy.

    Being a smart shopper goes a long way in stretching out your Astrals and Zen.
  • ncc575859#9863
    ncc575859#9863 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    tribbulater I actually have been selling on the AH.. if i have extra and using one of my alt PC's I usually sell very cheap (way below the asking price of the item) so that others using the AH might be able to get something that way to start out.. and I once tried that AD to Zen exchange, but did not know that it took that long (a month or more?) until you and someone else I think mentioned that to me..
    So.. you might have gotten something from AH that my main or one of my Alt PC's placed there.

    There is something that I don't understand though, and maybe you can explain it to me..

    When you look at the Campaign's and you see this number (where you finish the entire campaign).. what is that exactly and how can it help?

    And does it really help you if you have a lot of those campaign currencies? I can see where it might help you get better equipment, but other than that does it really help you at all?

    A lot of these things are very new, and I will be able to adapt to them, but it might just take me awhile.

    but thank you and everyone else for your insights and suggestions. It has helped me to understand this game better

    And you're right.. A person would have to win a very large Power Ball Lottery in order to open all of the Lock boxes you find from when you start to etc..

    Now that being said.. I noticed when i was looking through AH that some of the lock boxes drop almost the same thing, but others are more centralized toward certain items... is it better to have those than say

    The Wasteland or Decent or Halaster, etc boxes?

  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,446 Arc User
    Assuming you are talking about campaign currency in your purse, there are many different type. Some are good, some are okay and some not so useful.

    Most campaign currency can be exchanged for equipment and/or rouge AD. For the old campaign, the equipment are more or less useless.

    For lockbox, you need to learn if the items within the lockbox is useful. That will take a long time to know what is good and what is bad. If you are new, I would say not to bother with lockbox until you know what those items mean to you.

    I hoard every lockbox I have picked up (and I pick up everything) since mod 3. No, I probably will not open them but I hoard them all for 'just in case'.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • hotfrostworm
    hotfrostworm Member Posts: 445 Arc User
    Hello @ncc575859#9863
    I only play test Neverwinter and most video games to run in Linux under WINE. However, I am an old school DM of Frank Mentzer box sets. These were also known as BECMI edition. I did some 3rd edition AD&D but really love my BECMI edition. I never saw this game or the others labeled D&D by TSR or WoC as real D&D games. Back in the 80s, a player asked me what it would take to make a computer run a D&D session on its own. I told him it would never happen. So far, it never has happened.

    The programmers of the engine are limited by hard coded rules to place in the engine. A lot of players I read complain about the horrible RNG in this game. RNG stands for Random Number Generator and it never is random, most base it upon a algorithm called pseudo random or invent one of their own. I suspect Cryptic has one of their own. I wrote an old shell game in BASIC a long time ago, instead of using the built in pseudo random, I had a screen where the user read the instructions on how to play and place a bet. During this time a hidden looping counter was counting in the background from 1 to 10,000. The user entered their bet and the counter stopped, it did a modulus of 3 and returned the value 1, 2, or 3. If they picked the same number they won. This is as close to rolling dice as you can get, because the user interacted with the value chosen. But that is just the dice rolling, you need to put in the whole rule book. DM's will often "fudge" their numbers. They never tell the player, they allowed them to win, or made them lose, because it was pivotal to the story. So how to you tell your game engine when to allow for that?

    Online games read most of the rules and get the data from an online database. While the engine is pretty empty on what to do with the libraries of 3D models, 2D graphics, and sounds, the database knows where they belong on pregenerated maps. Which brings us to another issue. Since the database cannot make random mobs appear in the dungeon, you will have the same dungeon layout, the same enemies, and the same treasure at the end. Only a human can make dungeons different on the fly and adjust loot with various party levels.

    Until the day they program a computer to be imaginative and have psychological theories about what the party needs to have fun, D&D just cannot exist on a PC. They all boil down to PC games labeled Dungeons & Dragons.
  • tribbulater
    tribbulater Member Posts: 180 Arc User
    Despite how long I've played Neverwinter, I'm still only partially informed on a lot of game areas. There are parts of the game I don't interact with much because I spend all my time doing other things. So I can give some partial answers and hopefully someone more knowledgeable will provide additonal details or corrections.

    Campaigns: Part of the game story and the advancement process. Usually tied to a region of the game (Sharandar, Dread Ring, etc.). Significantly changed how they work since their original process. That 'number' you refer to is probably the progress meter (Campaign 70% complete) that simply gives you an idea how many of the total tasks in the campaign you've completed. By itself, it has no effect. It's just a quick way to tell where you are in the campaign.

    The actual usefulness of campaigns comes from a couple features. As you complete more steps in a campaign, you unlock boon points. Boon points add various stats/bonuses to your character in the Boons window. You unlock the ability to manufacture certain types of keys using campaign currency (Valindra's Tower key, Greater Demonic key, etc) which can open chests in high level dungeons, skirmishes and trials. You also have the Campaign store where you can buy various things with the currencies. Most campaign stores have an option to buy rough Astrals with a currency, so there's at least that option to get something useful.

    The other use for campaign currency (beyond completing the campaign or using the store) is that they can be donated to the Stronghold coffers for guild projects (giving you Guild marks in return).

    Lockboxes: Historically, a new lockbox was released with new content, and it would feature items related to that content. They all share similar drop rates (like 1% chance of getting a purple drop, 0.25% chance of a legendary - I don't recall the actual rates) etc. The contents vary and yes, people used to specifically open the boxes that gave them the best chance of getting the things they were looking for (Tenser's Floating Disk mount, for instance). Unless you've really researched your lockbox drops, I believe most people these days just default to opening the Glorious Resurgence lockboxes, because the rare drops from the Glorious give you a 'Choice of Items' box that allows you to pick whatever you want from all the previous lockboxes.

  • ncc575859#9863
    ncc575859#9863 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    thank you. It's a lot to take in.. and I know that one of these years...It will make more sense to me. I find as I play this with my main PC and my PC alts. that the most confusing thing that I need to get to know is all the different Abrev'tions.. such as RTQ, etc... now If I can just master the meaning of some of those.. I think I might have accomplished something LOL...... I know that it is easier than typing out the whole thing, that I understand, its just when you look at the zone messages and even some of the Alliance Messages, I find myself needing a scroll of Understanding..so to speak... or maybe some book from Candle Keep to help me.. LOL this to I know will come in time..and I will figure out what most of those mean. LOL.
    You and everyone else have been a great help to me. In figuring out this and that for this game.
  • tribbulater
    tribbulater Member Posts: 180 Arc User
    Alphabet Soup: https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Help:Acronyms/Abbreviations

    RTQ = Random Trial Queue, 18,000 IL to enter.
    REQ = Random Epic Queue, 20k IL
    TIC = The Infernal Citadel, 23k IL

    to cover some of the more common ones. Most are abbreviations of things you see in the K / Queue menu.
  • sandukutupu
    sandukutupu Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User
    The thing I don't care for in many of the campaigns is the dropped plot. Too many places plotline is forgotten, phased out and eventually dropped, thus a resolution is never achieved. One of the only campaigns to have a conclusion was the Maze Engine. The other the pops to mind is the River District (aka Cloaked Ascendancy).

    1. Make a MOD for us Original DNDer's to play.
    I don't know how you define "original" but I played at the kitchen table since 1980's up through the mid 1990's. Then I got pregnant ... twice. After your kids are playing as teens you tend to feel like a creeper sitting at that table. :lol: Now they are adults and when they come back home, I can get them to play a session with Mom & Dad with minimal arm twisting. There are a variety of campaigns my favorite is Ravenloft's Barovia. You can pick it up at level 70 and you get free level 70 gear upon arrival. Not so much about the story, Barovia just has a great spooky Halloween atmosphere. Also this is based on an original module that I played back in the early 90's.

    2. Do away with needing keys to open up Wasteland,etc Boxes. ( if you don't think you have a problem.. look in the AH)
    They are not about to do that, how do you think their Chinese overlords make money?? I never open loot boxes. I watch the AH for items to sell cheap that other players toss out. As a rule of thumb no epic mount from the current loot box is worth more than 200K AD. I never buy Legendary. Later when the loot box is history all those mounts I bank will increase in value. Simple supply versus demand. The Carpet of Flying was up to 400 to 500K until they brought it back.

    3. Fix Undermountain .. I was at the last three things to do ( I had help getting that far) and now It is virtually like running into a brick wall.. that transportation spell puts you and your group at different places.. and to tell you the truth.. I lost all interest in finishing it.
    Not sure, I think you are talking about Avernus and not Undermountain. Avernus has teleporters called Glyphworks. I don't care much for Avernus for several reasons. The orange sky has everything bathed in a monochromatic red hue, I ended up tweaking my graphics just to be there. Most of my characters are done 100% complete and just chasing boon points. The story about Vallenhas lacks some serious depth for anyone to care to be there. I am definitely not into Insurgancy, after the whole Stardock pursuit for rods in mod 17. Undermountain is actually pretty cool, I would call it my second favorite campaign.

    4. You need to adjust the price of the higher gear that you can get and make it easier for those that would like to get it, but can't. (you can still keep it at the level required to wear it for the PC's)
    I am wearing gear -on all my characters- from Juma's Chicken Bags. If you are doing Avernus, you get 100 Chaotic Writings from the main quests. Juma is a little demon vendor locked in a cage out front. His bags sell for 100 and more than likely you end up with a chicken. But sometimes you get 1225 level gear. Since you must do the quests, the gear is technically free. If you do the Master Expeditions in the Undermountain, the Burnished Weapons can be picked up there from the seal vendor.

    5. Stop discriminating against lower gear level players.
    I haven't leveled a character in a very long time now. But a friend of mine, who only role-plays, seldom does anything combat related, unless I drag him kicking and screaming, has 6 characters between 70 and 80. He got them to that level by invoking the Gods. That is where you stand at a campfire and pray all day. He has a nasty habit of using Neverwinter like most people use Facebook or IMVU. He gets online just to talk and buy stuff with cash. While he is standing there chatting his characters and companions get rewarded XP just for invoking.

    6. Adjust the Monster and beast HP's in the SH Area. newbies can not go out into the wilderness without getting killed all the time. Which means that some of the SH quests that Builder, Cleric, Ranger, etc give for you to do.. you can not.
    Wasn't like that before they raised the level cap to 80. Back when it was 70, all the monsters were level 70 and anyone entering the Stronghold was raised to level 70 too. This was of course a temporary level up so you wouldn't get a butt whooping.
  • ncc575859#9863
    ncc575859#9863 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    There are times when I go to my Guild and when like the builder, cleric.. etc.. ask you to do some things and I look where they are... and I think.. I just know if I go any where near that area or not even just passing through to get there.. I am going to be toast.. lol... The only time I attempt anything is when we do the Marauders and when we do an Alliance guild run (with all the different Guilds in our Alliance) and we do the Dragon Runs.. I do pretty good.. I have an 80th level Rogue that can some times just sit outside an area and get close enough to throw knives at what ever he is facing.. but I still find myself getting my you know what handed to me in a sling.. lol...

    To me there is just alot to learn and I know eventually I will...

    But I do thank all of you for your help in understanding some of the things in the game.

    Thank you.