CDP Topic: PvP

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  • theraxin#5169
    theraxin#5169 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    Btw, a quick note: Maybe add Glory multiplier as invoke bonus next to AD so it creates an incentive to daily PvP or at last generates an allure by seeing having 100k +50% Glory multiplier slowly build up while a new player potentially gears up in PvE.
  • froger#9967
    froger#9967 Member Posts: 574 Arc User
    I want to play sisters of Strahd or maybe Drufi. This sounds cool, especially if their in game powers are incorporated. I do hope there is still a place for the current pvp style, where your actual character is used and can still become OP, just not mixed with the proposed system. Unless people could use their pve toon to challenge me as a boss using boss mechanics.

    This is bad, the wheels in my head are spinning.
    Froger - Barbarian - Original Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Booster Shot - Cleric - Healer Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Magnus - Fighter - 3rd main to be a tank - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone

    Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
  • trgluestickz
    trgluestickz Member Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    I don't want the existing system where we fight eachother as the characters we built ourselves to be taken out of the game entirely, I like being able to play my own character and I as much as I liked chicken PVP, I think a system like that is going to be too simple and likely wouldn't require much skill to master, it would be fun for a little while but eventually this would destroy my drive to keep playing PVP most likely. This is one of the few things that could get me to quit this game if I'm being perfectly honest here.

    However, I did like chicken PVP and good chance this system will allow for more premades. Regular premades are something me and many other PVP players really miss and want back. The gear gap being taken out of the equation is healthyer for this game's PVP overall and will appeal to both new players and many in the veteran crowd as well. This type of PVP will likely be very popular if designed well and lets you earn good rewards.

    So I will vouge for this type of PVP to be introduced on the condition that the existing option to fight eachother as our own characters is left intact.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • trgluestickz
    trgluestickz Member Posts: 1,136 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    Update:

    I just was informed by Cryptic-Ridi that the old PVP system isn't going to be scrapped when this new heroes PVP gets introduced. We're good now XD.

    I will mention, the way that CDP post is written made it look like the old PVP system is getting scrapped. I wasn't only person who had that take, everyone I saw talking about it today before I heard about it was saying same thing. @nitocris83 You should update that CDP post to clarify that this proposal isn't intended to replace the existing system where we fight eachother with the characters we made.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • kalina311
    kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    What about the reward structure and the pvp store where is that ?

    What about additional loot drops weapons and items that are pvp specific where is that in the new pvp loot table

    Where are there any incentives in this cdp to play the existing pvp maps with your own character including the 10 v 10 ones?

    I really wonder what the pvp proposal looked like before it got influenced by this chicken pvp : D

    There are many typos/ mistakes in this "official" proposal..
    I mean the first line already has a mistake in it... I am glad the team "too" the time to discuss this lol
    also its ..Pug stomping (pick up group) . .. not Pub
    It would be nice to know the team reviewing this can relate and actually know what "Pug" stomping is
    especially for a pvp cdp ... : D

    also in the proposal it is written "These preset characters would have their stats all set to fit their role/function and would have one set of powers on the power tray – 3 encounters, 2 dailies, 2 at wills."

    Devs I think you are missing a trick by not utilizing the potion tray slots for clickies buff consumables.. gained from pvp etc or even unique buffs/ powers abilities etc / signature moves relating to the custom class you are trying to create .. what will be happening to the potion tray slots ..?

    i also think you are missing a trick by not having a customized character options with a point allocation buy in system
    for certain power or abilities / load outs etc ..

    how does this stop or prevent flavor of the month from happening with these custom load outs characters ,
    what is the max amount of the same class allowed per match 2 ?

    and if you dont release custom tweaks / patches and updates every month or so for these new custom modes and characters you will hamster pvp again ..balance concerns for characters cant go on for months or years unaddressed
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • jbball92#2946
    jbball92#2946 Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    Nobody who actually pvps complains about the gear difference. The people who complain about it are the ones who don’t actually pvp or have ever pvpd, but armchair quarterback through 3rd hand acccounts. Also pvp at its current time is more balanced than it has ever been, the stats to build a functional character are easy to acquire
  • kalina311
    kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    Dev why not highlight and show off your new pve scaling system in pvp and just scale people up to say 24k if you think item level differences are the issues in these pug stomping/ fairness scenarios ..then anybody can queue for normalized pvp and dont need cookie cutter build characters made for them and no need for more balance and crafting of new such cookie cutter characters and work by devs

    /let them rent out armor weapon enchantments as rewards on the pvp loot table

    devs your only monetization ideas of cdp pvp this round to justify this proposal development is the 3 premium characters and costumes ..something is very off .. you are definitely missing a trick here as well ...

    Where are the other ads / glory sinks /custom dye colors etc ../custom glowing aura / carry over rewards that are useful in pve or building players stronghold as well why cant pvp drop more vouchers tokens for accelerating building stronghold structures as well

    Chris the lead dev always says and agrees there are not enough ads sink in the game that is why the zen market is so backed up .. so where are the ads sinks for pvp rewards boxes ./ super store etc where is the hoock to encourage pve players to cross over and try ..where are items / rewards/ nice to haves that they could use in thier daily pve adventures as well etc to increase population

    .We need the pvp equivalent to Juma the bag vendor with tons of ramdom reward chances


    feature request no declining the pvp q pop
    the pvp queue pop should be un decline able there fore unexploited .therefore player are unable to game the system
    to try to sync to be on the same team

    stop putting players into failed losing matches with no time left ..
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • quickfoot#7851
    quickfoot#7851 Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    I'm not keen on the idea of turning PvP to a mini-game.

    2 major problems in PvP right now are:

    1) Self-healing insignia bonuses, this is essentially the same problem with lifesteal in PvE. These bonuses are stuff like "Survivor's Blessing", "Oppressor's Reprieve", "Knight's Rebuke", etc... Basically any item, bonus, artifact power that allows enough self healing breaks the "holy trinity" in PvP, just like it does in PvE.

    (Note: Mount Combat Powers are not a problem, they make a small difference, and only if used wisely.)

    2) A basic imbalance in encounter power magnitudes and the speed at which they can be cast. This issue is somewhat a result of the first. Classes with higher magnitude encounters can build to be super tanky and still deal enough damage in one or two rotations to kill someone else of roughly equal 'tankiness' before the opponent can self heal. Other classes that have weaker encounter powers, even with slightly shorter cooldowns, can't really do enough burst damage between rotations to even put pressure on the opponent because by the time they get to another rotation the opponent has healed that 25% or so of hp you took off previously. There also may need to be some adjustments to the way crits and combat adv interact in PvP mostly with respect to TR's, high magnitude encounters + insta CA + 50% crit = nearly one shot/rotate most people 50% of the time. After seeing some of the changes to Barbarians in m19, I've strongly considered reviving my little halfling maniac for these vary reasons.

    A third issue is just match making, I do have some ideas on how I think that can be implemented, but the key thing is that you have to give it time to work, it may take several months for the population to grow. You can do more chicken events or whatever to encourage that growth, combined with proper tiers, possibly in separate queues, could lead to a more healthy environment for new comers to learn in. There have been concerned with people swapping gear inside a match to get a round ilvl limits at queue time, this can be squashed by not allowing players to equip items that would put them over the limit inside the match, just like some items can't be equipped while leveling and the are above the characters current level. Simply, if the new item's ilvl + current total ilvl > limit, grey out that item and prevent it from being equipped. You could also disallow items over a certain item level from being equipped in combination with the previous limitation, would prevent people from trying to reequip their toon inside a match to out-gear the opponent/s.

    I think if you do implement PvP as a mini-game, it should be a special event like the chicken PvP. We've already lost a significant amount of customizability in this game, and what was proposed, literally locking us into 7 different builds, is a horrible idea imho. Limiting gear and items to pvp only gear is one thing, especially with all the bonuses pve releases on gear, but prebuilt characters is too far I think. While the argument that there was an "illusion of choice" in the prem16 system may have held water in PvE, in PvP prem16 many options that were not viable in PvE were actually very desirable in PvP, we had lots of choice and customization points with respect to feats.

    A lot of people like the idea of "Nascar rules", and I do too, to a certain extent, but only insofar as it's limited to gear, not builds. I've spent a lot of time (and ad), changing and tweaking builds for PvP just to experiment, either because I got bored, or thought I could do better. I enjoy that part of it.

    Idk how the different functionality of powers/feats/etc in pvp/pve is actually implemented in the code, but if the developer's program over an abstraction (or interface), and use dependency injection (from oop) for different modes/loadouts, they could have different implementations for any mode, create a bunch of new modes (racing, etc), and never have problems with them "infecting" the balance of each other. I'm sure a software engineer would know what I'm talking about. So balancing existing classes for PvP and PvE separately is totally possible and like I said, if done right, would make creating new modes we haven't thought of possible and relatively easy to insert ("inject") into existing systems. Imagine PvP in the Simril Racing thing!

  • kalina311
    kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    "All of this is a proposal and can change in many ways. None of the call outs in this feature are a guarantee in any form or something we are locked into at this point."


    Good please DO NOT lock into this .. where are the insentives to pvp for new players I dont see them !! .. ..where is any of the communities feedback implemented at all in this ..cause its not .


    chicken pvp /classes was/were not balanced either and there were still premades ruining around and PUG stomping due to one simple thing they were actually using a mike to co ordinate and communicating and the same thing will happen with this neverwinter champions idea ..which would be on another buggy leaderboard i assume as well

    there are proposed new 11 character slots including 1 dud henchman which is useless..
    The game /arena should just pick something at random instead if no player choice is made when the match starts omg lol useless wasted development time from inception why are you making a character Henchman that is a bad choice that no one should pick omg lol ) .. you whole new design philosophy by simplifying mod 16 is to stop the player from making bad build/ class choice or having them even available to him .. and here we go again you offer the player a bad choice LOL

    people are just going to pick the henchman class to troll the pvp match LOL

    3 premium .. a 7 others how do you even have room to represent even one of every class let alone paragons .. including the new class coming out that should be represented as a choice ??

    another thing where is the provision for the pvp tutorial as well or tips for new players so they have a clue and dont play like hampsters
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • kalina311
    kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    wilbur626 said:

    Removing players ability to go into PvP with the toons they have spent hundreds, if not thousands, of hours building is a mistake. Adding content like the proposed solution as an alternative for players that don’t want to go all in for PvP sounds fantastic.



    Make sure to let the players that fight with their own toons get better rewards than the players that run this dumbed down version 👍

    they never said they were doing that (removing normal domination/ progression ) they were just unclear in the cpd cause they only had 3 months to "rush" work on this pvp cpd proposal *sarcasm*
  • trialbyfire001
    trialbyfire001 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    I would really like “premade” characters. April fowls was a blast and in my experience skyrocketed pvp numbers. The reason being is that everybody was on the same footing and it required skill and tactics to win (generally). As of right now there are way to many “hidden” bugs and exploits that people can use in pve and the smart ones can also carry this over to pvp. A further “boring” aspect of pvp is fighting on the same node for 5 minutes and eventually 1 person runs away because neither people can hurt each other (obviously I‘m exaggerating but it still the same feeling) if everything is premade this makes coding easier as you would have to only balance Premade 7 characters and never worry about gear that comes from pve. You can adjust said characters without effecting pve. I always thought that pvp is a fun kind of “past time” to pve. You get cool titles, you can look cool, you might get some stuff that helps you in pve. I am disliking that I need to be “max” pve to actually participate in pvp which it really should be the other way around. Oh and if It was all premade chars Then any lvl char could participate in pvp and it wouldn’t make a difference either so it would open up pvp from lvl 4-80 instead of just “max 80”.
  • trialbyfire001
    trialbyfire001 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    I never understood why I would have to be playing a game for 2 yrs (to be max etc) just to pvp when pvp should be “hey I have 30 min to kill let’s stab some players”.

    As it is right now, it is easier to complete tomm then it is to play pvp and not get crushed by mega maxed players.
  • alquimistgg#0914
    alquimistgg#0914 Member Posts: 133 Arc User

    Thank you all for your patience as the team too the time to discuss all the feedback and put together a comprehensive write-up.


    Issues Raised in CDP:

    • Seasoned veterans pub-stomping newcomers who are not equipped with Best in Slot gear
    • A desire for separate PvP ability balance and gear that can be used
    • Complaints about artifacts and Mount Powers.
    • Pay to Win Complaints
    • More game Modes requested: Deathmatch, Capture the Flag
    • Solo Queue and Group Queuing
    • Rewards from playing PvP are bad outside of the season rewards, and do not help a player get better gear for PvP
    • Matchmaking does not take class into effect. It will sometimes create a team of only healers and tanks with no DPS, or put a bunch of DPS without any tanks.
    • Respawn timers need some looking into. It feels random.
    come on, i'm trying to follow some forum topics that i think is important, and this is taking me a long time, i hope my 2 cents will be useful.

    First of all I would like to express one of the biggest frustrations that I had in the M17, M18 and now in the M19 referring to PvP. All of them had everything to work perfectly with a system similar to that of icewind Dale or even better if you wanted, where we would associate ourselves with one of the fighting lakes and take the pains on the side we chose to fight in a PvP scourge within the map PvE.
    People at least tell me that it went through your mind when developing these modules.
    githyanki vs Illithids - M17
    Demons vs Devils - M18 and M19
    In the M19 mainly because it has an extensive map and already has a blood war meter. imagine my frustration when seeing that this map did not bring an open PvP. I think you missed a lot of opportunities here.

    Well, but back to the main topic. I read many posts from members with ideas that really should be taken into account. I am not a PvP player for lack of lines. I have been playing for over 2 years and yet whenever I am available I play even without a friendly start. Worse than the feeling of playing PvP and losing, is playing PvP, winning and not having a decent loot even in the first victory of the day.

    I really find PvPs pre-defined with iconic characters interesting, but that would be something for a PvP Event like the chicken ones. In fact we want to play with our characters in the vast majority. for that we need a decent balance. I liked the suggestions of some to put the new M19 scale into PvP. But I think a scale version made for PvP would be better. I could predefine the statistics for an average number according to the role, putting everyone on the same level, regardless of whether I am level 30 or 80.

    Example: whoever enters the queue as a Healer will always have 150k of Power 175k of critical striker, 50% of critical severity and 300kd and HP. other statistics would be at an average video, perhaps 50k. understand that I am damaging an example referring to statistical standardization for all Roles, Healer, Tank and DPS, these numbers would not be exactly.

    Along with this, an enchantment scale system. that would put all enchants in the same rank.
    For example, all enchants when entering the PvP area are scaled to Rank 12. With that, new players with rank 2 or 3 flattening will be able to match the veterans.

    Badge bonuses should be disabled as well as companions. skills of some classes with highly exaggerated magnitudes, could have a slight reduction when entering PvP mode. something that would be reported in the skill description.
    I would love to see the companions and insignia of mounts being disabled also in the open PvP of Icewind, it was always something I did not understand the reason for being released.

    I am a great active promoter of Neveriwnter, I am a guild leader focused on recruiting new players. eventually i create videos for youtube, i am present in the facebook groups of my country and i always defend / recommend nevrwinter. but when someone asks me about PvP it's hard to argue. I try to pull the side of the discourse towards Icewind's open PvP which always works because it leaves many people excited by the open PvP concept. it is really sad that no other map came with this system even with as many opportunities as the ones I mentioned in recent modules.
    Still on the open PvP, a general improvement in this system would be very good until for possible future releases. as a base addition on opposite sides of the PvP area for the revival of each of the clans, an "invisible" collider that captures the count of how many members of each clan is within the PvP area, preventing new members of a clan from overtaking the collider if your team already has a numerical advantage of players, things like that that allow a better competitiveness of open PvP, this way it can also count for the elevation of ranking and PvP campaigns.

    Those are the main points that come to mind I hope it helps in some way. have a good week.


  • vitherborth
    vitherborth Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    the only concern for me is that with the new pvp style i will change the aspect of my character.
    i like the rest of the changes, but some of us spent a lot of time to make the appearance on their characters, both the physical one and the one of the gear, and i think that they would like to play them (at least i do).
    i find interesting that we can be monster, or npc, but give us the possibility to change the class but keep our appearance (at least the physical one)
  • ghry123
    ghry123 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    i think you should bring back pvp gear and give tokens for score you get in the pvp-match this will be easier to do than a chiken pvp
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