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Official M19: Healing Adjustments

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  • minorheaven#5087 minorheaven Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    > @"midental#5256" said:
    > Synergy. We need Synergy. Pala make Shield every 3 minutes and Healers keep them alive on players. Synergy. Group content not one OP or one DC or one SW. With sinergy game could be better. Heal over time need to be moooooore over time not every 3 seconds.... need every 2 seconds and more incisive. Like DPS more synergy in damage is better for everyone.
    >
    > My two cents....

    You talk about a shield every 3 min so it would be more like a daily and if you stop to think abt it the pally shield, an encounter, is stronger than the devout's strongest dailys. I'm used to running with a pally (on my dps side, of course, since healer cant get inv) that can hit at least 70% shield most of the time and not even my dailys can beat that.

    This is the first time I'm considering giving up on my cleric. I was there for the mod 16 changes and I supported it because the game was in a bad place with all the buffs (my ac being part of the problem), lifesteal, recovery, etc. Then mod 16 came and even though devout wasnt the best healer, it could still run lomm just fine. Mod 17 came and after a few months playing tomm the grps started to realise that it would be more efficient to exclude the devout/soulweaver and just take the pally, so I started playing dps otherwise I wouldn't get to play at all. With mod 18 I just did the campaign and ran ic just enough to get gear and came back to tomm expecting that mod 19 would finally bring the changes that would make my devout relevant, but I guess is time to move on from this notion. I will probably not leave the game because I like the social aspect, but I will move to a dps class because even though I play arbiter I'm not a fan of the gameplay.
  • ancientryancientry Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    sad to see the clear favoritism towards palas even on devs side> @shugensha said:
    > When this thread started i lost all my motivation to log, not even to refine my rAD. And after that video i feel its better uninstall until future mods.
    > While i understand changes are needed, i don't understand why only 2 healers are paying the price.
    > That video is the proof that the game only need pally shields and nothing else, the other two healers are just decoration.
    > And if we, soulweavers, can't stack the shields or have decent shields, why give us them in the first place? why do it if in the end all you would say its "oh, but you can use the other feat"?
    > Took our dmg and gave us useless % dmg buff that works with the new "divinity", gave us feats that drain it just for hitting when before we could do it just fine.
    > In the end you regresed to pre mod 16, instead of one dps and 4 buffers, now its one pally and 4 dps.
    > It's really sad cuz even if you make DCs to give nice buffs with each heal, or make warlocks buff and debuff like before, ppl will still choose blue shields and healthstones.
    > At least now i know that if i met someone that says it's thinking about playing this game, i will warn that person and then say "just make a pally heals, even if you don't like that rol, its the best if you want to play every single content without problems or kicks"
    > And thx Rainer for that video, proof like that can't be ignored not even for the devs.
    >
    > And btw, i won't speak for all the soulweavers, but i don't want to be a sad and crappy blend of DC and Pally, i fell in love with the templock, was fun, was unique and overall worked. Soulweaver was completly different but fun. And the new one it's just useless, there isn't feat choises that would make you go "oh.. what if i try this..?", the class features are the same, the powers won't give diversity since feats only count three powers and after every power all you gotta do is stay still hopping the team won't screw it, the only good thing is the new orb that follows you, but other than that we are useless even for mimics on LoMM. There are plenty of ppl giving real good feedback asides from the shild/tempHP. Don't copy paste the classes, just make them unique again, like giving one orb that heals and another that hits and powers that interact with them, lets us feel the power of the souls we reap or the power of our patron.



    exactly. havent logged in lately as much as i did at the start of this quarantine. kinda feels pointless to grind for equipment and i dont want to roll a pala againn from scratch just to be efficient. why dont u just delete all classes except palas for heal and tank, and rogues, rangers, and wiz for dps lol
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    In the Zariel solo opheal run mentioned above, people should have died more but they timed the use of mass life scrolls in order to avoid several deaths in a row. Also it was an excellent group with many hit points, dpsing quickly (arbiters) and doing well the mechanics: it puts considerably less pressure on the healer. I am also sure that tanks took stones of health to help the healer.
    On preview, it is extremely difficult to take care of the tank survival (ST healing) and of the group survival (AOE shield or AOE heal) at the same time, while doing the mechanic. That's why roles are generally split between the two healers.

    On all healing classes, there is now this need of more ST healing with the at-will or the tab: it is really a challenge because we were more used to do AoE healing without specific single target targetting.

    I have played both healer paladin and healer cleric for Zariel and overall the experience is stressful; because of this single target new need (we cannot spam AOE heal anymore), targetting is sometimes complicated because of people going between the healer and the target, or because of the second tank taking Tankbuster being blended with the rest of the group (where is the tank I must protect within 3 sec) , or because of people moving during mechanics, including myself. I could bind a command but people on console will not be able to do so.
    ->I would suggest to put the names of the tanks in other colors than the rest of the group (and to put the small "wings" above the name for the Tab target)

    For cleric, I think only a few tweaks are needed to satisfy everybody in a 10-men trial:
    ->Bastion of Health should have a more appropriate minimum magnitude regardless of the number of targets and entities healed. In its current version, it CANNOT be used because of the pityful heal when there are many players.
    ->Bastion of health should apply a damage resistance % to the players for 5 sec after being applied: that way, it would act as a damage mitigator and would be a good replacement of shields (that are meant to prevent oneshot).
    ->Astral shield damage resistance effect could be buffed a bit and the radius is really too narrow
    ->Healing word current healing is fine but with divine glow and astral shield slotted, we cannot refresh its duration: maybe you could rework the feat completely differently.

    For paladin, I am afraid you will kill it after the reduction of Emissary of warding, but let's see.
    ->Divine touch suffers of the same thing of bastion of health: please give it a relevant minimum magnitude. What is the interest of this power when divine shelter can do better without aiming?

    Post edited by werdandi#8366 on
  • midental#5256 midental Member Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    > @minorheaven#5087 said:
    > > @midental#5256 said:
    > > Synergy. We need Synergy. Pala make Shield every 3 minutes and Healers keep them alive on players. Synergy. Group content not one OP or one DC or one SW. With sinergy game could be better. Heal over time need to be moooooore over time not every 3 seconds.... need every 2 seconds and more incisive. Like DPS more synergy in damage is better for everyone.

    > You talk about a shield every 3 min so it would be more like a daily and if you stop to think abt it the pally shield, an encounter, is stronger than the devout's strongest dailys. I'm used to running with a pally (on my dps side, of course, since healer cant get inv) that can hit at least 70% shield most of the time and not even my dailys can beat that.


    Maybe you are right 3 min are bad example but i hope you undersant what i mean.... Concept...
  • sawbon3s#7627 sawbon3s Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Ok it deleted my comment.

    These proposed changes are bad and totally fail to meet what you claim you want to accomplish with them.

    How is standing around waiting for a bar to refill more engaging than actively managing resources?

    Why would you ever think that warlocks would want a healbot pet? How does that make things more engaging?

    Why would you destroy a paragon and make it a cheap ripoff of the other 2 healers?

    I love soulweave because it's different and has great resource management options, is engaging, and provides useful buffs to the party. Why even call it soulweave? Just be honest and call it divinity.

    It's probably too late but here's suggestions for truly balancing healers:

    - remove blue shields and other temp hp (duh)

    -balance healers by making them all unique

    -pallys add damage resistance to targets healed

    -clerics buff outgoing damage of targets healed

    -warlocks keep curse and debuff damage of enemies like they do now, keep life bind and allow striking cursed targets to heal whoever struck them.

    As for channeling:

    - keep channeling as an active resource management tool but give it added utility for each class. Also allow all classes to move while channeling.

    -pallys redirect damage from allies to themselves while channeling, depleting their guard meter. Damage redirected is decreased some so that all stamina isn't depleted in one hit. Once stamina is depleted, they can still channel but don't absorb damage for allies.

    -clerics, while channeling, pulse heals and deplete their own stamina to restore stamina to allies

    -warlocks, siphon life from cursed targets to heal allies. If no targets are cursed, changes to single target high damage drain that heals allies and debuffs damage resistance on the target. If targeting self, heals allies and restores soul sparks while damaging self.

    I would keep the high mag at will heals like you have but also boost our at will damage significantly, and allow damaging at wills to restore resources as we use them so that there's actually reason to use them.

    Please do not press forward with these changes as you have them and for the love of God do not do this to soulweavers.
  • sawbon3s#7627 sawbon3s Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Also harrowstorm is the best power on either warlock path. It's fun to strategically stack it to get the most healing out of it you can while also applying curse to all your enemies for the debuff. What you've done to it is just... horrible.
  • froger#9967 froger Member Posts: 448 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    To address these issues, the critical severity on healing has been reduced to 50%, down from 100%.

    So, I was discussing this last night and I'm a bit confused about critical severity on healing being reduced from 100% to 50%. This confusion stems from my critical severity stat base appearing to be less than 100% on live. It appears my base critical severity is 75%. When I copy to preview the stat appears to be the same. Is this a display bug or is the base already less than 100%? It would appear my base critical severity is 75%.

    Here is live:


    Here is preview:


    To add to my confusion is my Xbox toon, same class/race, after resetting everything (except wild storm elixir still active). How is the base critical severity different from PC?

    Froger - Barbie Girl in a Barbie World - Main in spirit only - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Jade - Cleric - Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Magnus - Fighter - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone

    Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
  • northwind1974northwind1974 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    Proactive healing (Paladin) will always have an advantage over reactive healing unless you change where the barrier is not a heal meaning a target at 50% HP gets a barrier that shields, not heals. Barrier goes down, target is still only at 50% hp.

    Or give the the reactive healer something that is also unique. Maybe a Resurrection spell that brings back even fully dead (unable to revive) targets.
  • malistaire#9098 malistaire Member Posts: 48 Arc User
    @froger#9967

    What they mean by critical severity being reduced to 50% is that critical heals are less effective than on live.

    Currently on live, a critical heal will take the base amount and multiply it by your critical severity. If you have 75 critical severity, your critical heal is 1.75x (1+ 0.75) stronger than a normal heal. With the changes to how critical severity impacts heals, your critical heals will now be only 1.375x (1 + 0.75 * 0.5) stronger.

  • froger#9967 froger Member Posts: 448 Arc User
    @malistare Thank you for the explination. I think the tool tip is clear as mud though.
    Froger - Barbie Girl in a Barbie World - Main in spirit only - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Jade - Cleric - Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Magnus - Fighter - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone

    Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
  • vasile1991vasile1991 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 53 Arc User

    I've seen a number of people in my guild that didn't know about the dividing heals having a floor magnitude because they didn't read this discussion. This information shouldn't be in a dark corner on a forum, it should be readily available to everyone.
    FEEDBACK: Bastion of Health, Divine Touch and Restoration minimum magnitudes (440, 200, 300) should be clearly stated in their respective tooltips.

    FEEDBACK: Astral Shield should be reworked. The area is too small and having to channel it is not ideal. Making the area larger and removing the need to channel it, even if the divinity per second cost increases, would probably make this power more generally useful.

    I disagree about Astral Shield.
    It's meant to be timed right when needed. There's no cooldown to it and that makes it great. After it's no longer needed just quickly slot it off the bar and put in Healing Word or something else.
    Regarding the size of the circle - I'm fine the way it is now because it forces people to come closely together and promotes playing closely to each other which always makes the healer's job easier.
    Keep Astral Shield the same :)
    Viperion Nexus - cleric healer.
    Viperion Helsing - warlock DPS/healer.
    Viperion Justifer - paladin tank.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User

    Proactive healing (Paladin) will always have an advantage over reactive healing unless you change where the barrier is not a heal meaning a target at 50% HP gets a barrier that shields, not heals. Barrier goes down, target is still only at 50% hp.

    Or give the the reactive healer something that is also unique. Maybe a Resurrection spell that brings back even fully dead (unable to revive) targets.

    I would point out that the game has been moving in the proactive planning direction since ToMM, at least as far as harder content goes.

    The goal is for reactive healing to cover only for mistakes; otherwise efficient healers are planning their actions in advance based on anticipated mechanics and the pace of damage to the tank. Basically, all healers should be adopting a proactive, measured play style by knowing when they will need to heal and for how much.

    The real limiter on Paladins should be their raw healing power, which would encourage partnership with a Cleric or a HoT Warlock. Of course they need to have enough healing strength to function in 5-person content, so it’s a slightly delicate balancing act.

    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • usmanazeem#8526 usmanazeem Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    This isnt very kind but a good idea to keep in mind in future

    (Anonymous)
    1 second ago
    @Rainer why nerf paladins when you can make other classes just as viable,give SW good DR capabilites like (40%),DCs can also have divine blessing BS that protects party by either giving DR or shielding them,this way they dont get 1 shot and can be healed just llike paladin bubble


  • liadan1984#8734 liadan1984 Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    The old cleric AA was changed because it was seen as too powerful. Going back into an old Mod 15 cleric build it says..
    "These 4 orbs will shield your allies 4 times, up to 20% of their maximum hit points"
    Now, it seems a lifetime ago, so I cant remember if it was 20% per orb, or 20% across all four...

    So, why was this too powerful for clerics, but the pally shield is all 100% fine???

    Anyway... it left us with no way to shield our allies, and to be honest... I miss this. Even though it didn't last long. I miss being able to cast AA at *just* the right moment to protect my party from the big hits. Oh yes, most of them have enough HP now to survive all of that, or I can use HG, but it's just the same. and going intod the new mod... I can see where the old AA, or something like it, would be needed.

    Why can't we add this "shielding" back to AA? The use of that daily would HAVE to be strategic, because it drops after a certain amount of time.

    I emphasis ADD, do not remove anything from AA to add this in. That wouldn't be fair. What would be fair, is giving us two options to shield our allies from incoming damage. An encounter or an at will, would be nice.
  • carloswartune#5709 carloswartune Member Posts: 235 Arc User

    The old cleric AA was changed because it was seen as too powerful. Going back into an old Mod 15 cleric build it says..
    "These 4 orbs will shield your allies 4 times, up to 20% of their maximum hit points"
    Now, it seems a lifetime ago, so I cant remember if it was 20% per orb, or 20% across all four...

    So, why was this too powerful for clerics, but the pally shield is all 100% fine???

    Anyway... it left us with no way to shield our allies, and to be honest... I miss this. Even though it didn't last long. I miss being able to cast AA at *just* the right moment to protect my party from the big hits. Oh yes, most of them have enough HP now to survive all of that, or I can use HG, but it's just the same. and going intod the new mod... I can see where the old AA, or something like it, would be needed.

    Why can't we add this "shielding" back to AA? The use of that daily would HAVE to be strategic, because it drops after a certain amount of time.

    I emphasis ADD, do not remove anything from AA to add this in. That wouldn't be fair. What would be fair, is giving us two options to shield our allies from incoming damage. An encounter or an at will, would be nice.

    AA was considered too powerful due to its "secondary" effect, the powersharing ("secondary" on quotes because I'm sure most players considered this to be the main effect). I agree that bringing back the mitigation would be nice. I think the amount of orbs didn't matter, it always absorbed damage up to 20% of the target's HP as long as the target had at least one orb remaining.
  • sakura#4709 sakura Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    I play all the 3 healers.( Actually only play these 3 classes cuz I like healing. All well geared 26+)

    I've liked that all the 3 classes have differences and originalities.

    Cleric has been always a great healer ( even though when templock was there I couldn't heal a thing . I was only a buffer ..lol)

    Soulweaver I like this class too. I know most people loved templock and not soulweaver. Yes templock was fun to play . But the class wasn't right.. like I could do dps, heal even tank (cuz I'd never died with the massive life steal) and I believe no class should be like that. So I like it that they're healer now and I can do good dps as well. Heal might be less than cleric but I like that warlock also can help dps. I feel things go faster and smoothly. And I even out heal clerics when I play trial.

    And M19 looks like they keep the way so I'm excited to see the new mod.

    My ONLY concern is...as other people said too, paladins shield being over powered. And even required. It's just too good. I like it that paladins have the unique ability. But I don't want it to be better than healing and it's required. So DC and SW are never welcome.

    I think it need to be balanced to be like it's a good unique ability but not required to be a healer.

    That's it I'm sorry for my bad English (I'm not English)
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,016 Arc User

    This isnt very kind but a good idea to keep in mind in future

    (Anonymous)
    1 second ago
    @Rainer why nerf paladins when you can make other classes just as viable,give SW good DR capabilites like (40%),DCs can also have divine blessing BS that protects party by either giving DR or shielding them,this way they dont get 1 shot and can be healed just llike paladin bubble


    Because all 3 healers are already viable. There was a rework because healers were too powerful, we don't want to get back to that point again...it makes the rework useless. If all 3 classes can complete the new content on preview and there is a class that is widely considered to be more useful, it needs to be lowered in it's ability to be useful, to be equal to the other classes.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 906 Arc User
    edited June 2020

    I play all the 3 healers.( Actually only play these 3 classes cuz I like healing. All well geared 26+)



    I've liked that all the 3 classes have differences and originalities.



    Cleric has been always a great healer ( even though when templock was there I couldn't heal a thing . I was only a buffer ..lol)



    Soulweaver I like this class too. I know most people loved templock and not soulweaver. Yes templock was fun to play . But the class wasn't right.. like I could do dps, heal even tank (cuz I'd never died with the massive life steal) and I believe no class should be like that. So I like it that they're healer now and I can do good dps as well. Heal might be less than cleric but I like that warlock also can help dps. I feel things go faster and smoothly. And I even out heal clerics when I play trial.



    And M19 looks like they keep the way so I'm excited to see the new mod.



    My ONLY concern is...as other people said too, paladins shield being over powered. And even required. It's just too good. I like it that paladins have the unique ability. But I don't want it to be better than healing and it's required. So DC and SW are never welcome.



    I think it need to be balanced to be like it's a good unique ability but not required to be a healer.



    That's it I'm sorry for my bad English (I'm not English)
    Prior mod 16 change, all healers could do dmg, so no need excluded others.

    Warlock's where doing dmg and it's healing where more less life steal mechanic, and Soul Bonding feat( legacy templock) simply shared HP gains from life steal with allies.

    And warlock where massive healing, and only class who could compete with paladin's in term of healing.
    Only cleric could could outheal Templock where cases when there are no enemies to hit/leech HP.


    Now as for dps:
    Clerics actually due buffs/debuffs could deal massive dmg and there where some DC players who due their build and gameplay could rival well build/geared dps classes in term of dps..


    As for paladin simply keeping healing powers up/active, they proc legacy campaing boons who where dealing damage when heal power is used.

    More less take warlocks Tyrannical Curse daily power on high steroids with no cool down and restrictions.
    But that's now is a past.

    Now it's matter what we have here right now.

    And what we have here is x3 heal classes, the way how you play more less same, only paladin having extra feature Shield stacking.

    Other two classes they may be sufficient to complete new trial, but players will pick easiet and most efficient class and others will be discarded..

    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited June 2020

    This isnt very kind but a good idea to keep in mind in future

    (Anonymous)
    1 second ago
    @Rainer why nerf paladins when you can make other classes just as viable,give SW good DR capabilites like (40%),DCs can also have divine blessing BS that protects party by either giving DR or shielding them,this way they dont get 1 shot and can be healed just llike paladin bubble


    It's easy to hate on nerfs. I usually don't agree with the ones made either, but that doesn't mean that reducing things is inherently bad. The game has a sort of line where everyone is intended to perform in terms of their role. And the various classes zigzag back and forth across that line as changes are made with the goal to be for everyone to be ON the line. When you're under the line, you need to be buffed to be brought up, but when you're over the line you need to be reduced, or nerfed, to be brought down to it. If these reductions were never made to keep classes close to the baseline performance, then everyone would just start creeping higher and higher above it. As that power creep happens, new content has to be designed to meet that. Then power creep keeps happening. Then content has to be designed to meet that. Until we've essentially reached the ceiling. There's no where to go. Then we get where we were in M15 where the whole game has to be radically changed to fix it.

    People in this thread, myself included, are calling for the overshield to be removed because it places Pallyheal way, way above that line while Cleric and SW are hovering around the line. There's actually nothing wrong with Cleric or SW. They heal well. Other than some QoL changes lots of people would like to see, they're actually in a pretty good place I think in terms of numbers. The problem is that in comparison, Pallyheal is overperforming not just against the other two classes but against the actual game itself. Overshields negate mechanics. So yes, in this case, as in others of blatant overperformance, nerfs are actually the best way to fix it. Because not only do all three classes need to be par with each other in the role, they need to be clustered together around the line of expected performance. Because we don't want to have to live through a complete redesign AGAIN. Especially so soon.
  • miliantriciamiliantricia Member Posts: 33 Arc User

    Zariel Challenge solo heal Pally by Rainer



    image


    Can a cleric do that? Can a warlock do that? Of course not.
    Here it is your balance. And you ignore it? And why am I asking, you always ignored this.
    And I'm sure that the whole new healing system that we now see on the test server will be on the main server without changes ...
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,016 Arc User

    Zariel Challenge solo heal Pally by Rainer



    image


    Can a cleric do that? Can a warlock do that? Of course not.
    Here it is your balance. And you ignore it? And why am I asking, you always ignored this.
    And I'm sure that the whole new healing system that we now see on the test server will be on the main server without changes ...
    None of us are denying this, and this is why we are asking for shields to be nerfed/removed, and not for Cleric and Warlock to be buffed
  • keadron#3660 keadron Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    > @arazith07 said:
    > (Quote)
    > None of us are denying this, and this is why we are asking for shields to be nerfed/removed, and not for Cleric and Warlock to be buffed

    The only issue with that is the end game content is being balanced around having shields. Otherwise we wouldn't still have the one shot mechanics that we were supposed to have gotten away from after our last rework.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 345 Arc User
    It is, but that's part of why this needs to be done, and done now. Before it gets worse. Right now, there's only a small amount of content that would need to be adjusted. The longer this goes on without being handled, the more content there will be that would need adjusted and the harder it will be to do.
  • midental#5256 midental Member Posts: 130 Arc User
    > @kythelion#3210 said:
    > (Quote)
    > It's easy to hate on nerfs. I usually don't agree with the ones made either, but that doesn't mean that reducing things is inherently bad. The game has a sort of line where everyone is intended to perform in terms of their role. And the various classes zigzag back and forth across that line as changes are made with the goal to be for everyone to be ON the line. When you're under the line, you need to be buffed to be brought up, but when you're over the line you need to be reduced, or nerfed, to be brought down to it. If these reductions were never made to keep classes close to the baseline performance, then everyone would just start creeping higher and higher above it. As that power creep happens, new content has to be designed to meet that. Then power creep keeps happening. Then content has to be designed to meet that. Until we've essentially reached the ceiling. There's no where to go. Then we get where we were in M15 where the whole game has to be radically changed to fix it.
    >
    > People in this thread, myself included, are calling for the overshield to be removed because it places Pallyheal way, way above that line while Cleric and SW are hovering around the line. There's actually nothing wrong with Cleric or SW. They heal well. Other than some QoL changes lots of people would like to see, they're actually in a pretty good place I think in terms of numbers. The problem is that in comparison, Pallyheal is overperforming not just against the other two classes but against the actual game itself. Overshields negate mechanics. So yes, in this case, as in others of blatant overperformance, nerfs are actually the best way to fix it. Because not only do all three classes need to be par with each other in the role, they need to be clustered together around the line of expected performance. Because we don't want to have to live through a complete redesign AGAIN. Especially so soon.


    PERFECTION.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 906 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    (deleme me)
    Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 61 Arc User

    Emissary of warding reduced from 100% to 50%.... I can tell you that if you don't have this feat, you cannot heal properly and quickly, or mitigate the incoming damage, especially for endgame trials contents or even for the Arcuria's cocoon .
    This nerf is unacceptable and is really too strong. Please don't do drastic changes like that (you could have tried 75% first for instance, wny so much at once????).
    The other changes are already questionnable but this one is the worst for the paladin.
    Not to mention that this could cause a rework of all endgame trials because people will receive too much damage, especially when there are several big attacks in a row


    The fact that all endgame trials *would* need to be reworked in the event of an overshield nerf highlights exactly the problem with paladin atm. It should be very clear that a class/mechanic is overpowered when it is pretty much a requirement for endgame content.
    It is more the other way around: Bad design of endgame content requiring too much protection + shields on top. Paladins are not overpowered, they prevent damage and oneshot (but have very bad healing if no crit). Not the fault of paladins if for example Superstorm was too strong to be mitigated by other healers. I prefer the other healers to have better damage mitigation tools than removing what makes the paladin a paladin.
    The fact is, as already mentioned, an interwoven problem of the shield system + major damage. but let's be realistic, even if the damage from tomm and zariel has been reduced by 75% giving the ability of any healer to do, the human factor cannot be ignored, all dps would choose a Paladin, that way they could do tomm without even move because now that Halaster’s damage is very low and we have a paladin on our side we can ignore all the mechanics look how wonderful, we can do it even with a single healer and a single tank, because the paladin’s shield will tank the damage of the skill and there’s still plenty of shield, really good. The human factor will always bring up these kinds of thoughts, so I’m agreeing to change the shield so that it only protects 50% of the total damage received, and I also agree with new mitigation options for the other healer classes (for me I could be shield too), as well as an option for paladins to focus only on healing and HoT. bringing more versatility to players of all healing classes.

  • alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    vorphied said:

    Proactive healing (Paladin) will always have an advantage over reactive healing unless you change where the barrier is not a heal meaning a target at 50% HP gets a barrier that shields, not heals. Barrier goes down, target is still only at 50% hp.

    Or give the the reactive healer something that is also unique. Maybe a Resurrection spell that brings back even fully dead (unable to revive) targets.

    I would point out that the game has been moving in the proactive planning direction since ToMM, at least as far as harder content goes.

    The goal is for reactive healing to cover only for mistakes; otherwise efficient healers are planning their actions in advance based on anticipated mechanics and the pace of damage to the tank. Basically, all healers should be adopting a proactive, measured play style by knowing when they will need to heal and for how much.

    The real limiter on Paladins should be their raw healing power, which would encourage partnership with a Cleric or a HoT Warlock. Of course they need to have enough healing strength to function in 5-person content, so it’s a slightly delicate balancing act.

    it's not so delicate, just make a feat or class features preferably that converts part of your shield to HoT, similar to the "shield" they added to the WL healer.
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