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Sad warlock

xxjahvier#9450 xxjahvier Member Posts: 24 Arc User
I love my toon and I've been playing him for several mods/years now. 27k item level, 150+ power, 85 other caps, and arguably Bis equipment (storytellers, scarf/sash, etc.), legendary companions wa bolster of 13.5 and up, max shadowclad and dread. I really wanted to play a bad A dps like the warlock because they look cool and I thought would be top tier. Now don't get me wrong, I out perform many in dungeons, and I enjoy the difficulty of the warlock class (another reason I chose it, technical play not just button smashing), however when I'm out classed by a cleric w less gear, il, etc., it just makes me sad. I'm a bad player and don't know the class? I've tried numerous power combinations, features, feats, 90 companions!, and a cleric goes pew pew a couple of times and I'm left in the dust. A cleric. I don't understand why this is, but like I said, it just makes me sad. Like many others I've invested a lot of time and cash in my toon, but if I'm going to be out dps by a cleric then at least remove the scoreboard so I'm not so down and I can at least imagine that I was the one doing all the damage.

Comments

  • xxjahvier#9450 xxjahvier Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    I appreciate your info. I have tried and tested MANY builds and gear and have almost everything. Like I said I can do some crazy damage and put my power up to 170 if I wanted (I know it's low for dps, but I'm not rich in radiants) but I get more damage out of the companions like xuna, grung, dire wolf currently. And yes thank you I am extremely proud of my warlock. All I see on everyone is vorpal and barkshield and I just don't want a copy paste build like a lot I see.
  • the1truehunterthe1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 211 Arc User
    I can hit 190k power with r9 radiants. Seems you are not focusing on important things to get your power up. Bondings>Empowereds>Artifacts>10k utility mount power>15x Insignia of Brutality or Dominance>Companions that boost your power. Regarding the class you play better days will come. They haven t figured out yet how to build the warlock structure that will ensure fast stack gains to give warlock a succesful fast combat damage.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 928 Arc User
    edited April 2020
    rjc9000 said:

    Unfortunately, if the DPS Cleric is very good, they do 33% more damage than a fully BiS Wizard.
    It's hard to beat a class that can pull ~24+ million in a single burst in Tower runs.

    While I am no SW expert, I believe that you are running the wrong gear from what you mentioned. This is because much of the best DPS gear is mostly the same between most classes...

    150,000 Power is somewhat low for a DPS with your gear investment, you should be at least in the ~180,000s range while resting.

    What companions are you using (Deepcrow? Alpha Compy? Minstrel)?
    What companion gear are you using?
    What runestones are you using? (Empowered in offensive slots, Profane in defensive?)
    What insignias are you using? (Brutality/Dominance?)
    What enchantments are you running in your character offensive slots? (Radiants?)

    Your weapon enchant also needs a change. Dread got hit with a huge nerfbat in Mod 16, to the point where it is not worth using. I recall some SWs I talked to suggested Vorpal or Bilethorn were pretty good for your class.

    I also believe that your 3 piece set is not very good. The "deal 10% of damage as unresistable damage" has been laughably useless since Mod 6, if not earlier, and the bonus attributes don't add much to an overall build. I recall reading that SWs are shifting over to the Mad Mage set.

    Anyways, there's probably more that you're missing. I don't know the ins and outs of SW, but this gear list/setup by Fandango should be a decent place to follow for SW guidance.


    I am curious, you say, "150,000 Power is somewhat low for a DPS with your gear investment, you should be at least in the ~180,000s range while resting. " Can this be attained without being in a level 20 Guild with max power buff? If so, how?

    EDIT: Also without using an augment companion?
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • xxjahvier#9450 xxjahvier Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    R11 radiants, bonding 15 x 3, empowered 15. Augment companion, swarm, tensers, and brutality. Like I said, I can do some amazing damage. My only point is that a cleric w worse gear and stats did more damage than my warlock.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    I wouldn't fixate on the fact that it's a Cleric to whom you're comparing your Warlock. Arbiter is a legitimate DPS path, and it was stated during M16 development that all DPS paths were intended, at least conceptually, to be equally competitive. Naturally the reality leaves something to be desired, but this fiction that DPS paths belonging to classes that also have tank or healer paths ought to be inherently worse is tiresome; if that were the case, Clerics would have needed no modification in M16 since DO was a solo monster and a very capable group DPS with the option to heal....

    Anyway, rjc9000 gave some great pointers already. As for everything else, we'll see what M19 brings.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • mongol69mongol69 Member Posts: 333 Arc User
    edited April 2020
    When stat caped for IC, power sits at 206k, 222k with consumables.
    Warlock averages 180 to 200mil, wizard averages around 240 to 260mil, cleric averages around 260 to 280mil in a 15min to 20min tomm.

    Both wizard and cleric can add buff ranged damage while putting up 20 to 30% more damage than a warlock. Warlocks are still subpar and offer nothing to group buffs.

    Besides fighter, every other dps path class outperforms the warlock at maxed endgame by a margin of 20 to 30% at single target damage. The sad state is that this is still the best warlocks have performed since mod 16 preview till now.

    The only way warlocks are within 10% damage of other dps classes is if there are large chunks of aoe damage to close the gap such as in IC.
  • giz#2086 giz Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    mongol69 said:

    When stat caped for IC, power sits at 206k, 222k with consumables.

    Warlock averages 180 to 200mil, wizard averages around 240 to 260mil, cleric averages around 260 to 280mil in a 15min to 20min tomm.



    Both wizard and cleric can add buff ranged damage while putting up 20 to 30% more damage than a warlock. Warlocks are still subpar and offer nothing to group buffs.



    Besides fighter, every other dps path class outperforms the warlock at maxed endgame by a margin of 20 to 30% at single target damage. The sad state is that this is still the best warlocks have performed since mod 16 preview till now.



    The only way warlocks are within 10% damage of other dps classes is if there are large chunks of aoe damage to close the gap such as in IC.

    Please don't ask for buff powers for Hellbringer, i have a feeling that they will turn our DPS class into a Support DPS paragon, with party support role at cost of low DPS compared with a DPS class. They will do everything to avoid Warlock to be a competent DPS like any other DPS spec.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 547 Arc User
    Like what everyone else said, Clerics have a DPS loadout, and a dps being outdpsed by another dps shouldn't be a surprise.

    Aside from the obvious, there are a lot of factors to get your "paingiver" high even with lower itemlevel and power on any class, but this is way easier for an Arbiter (Cleric DPS paragon).

    Arbiters have essentially 0 cooldown, as you can slot in encounters that use divinity and has like ~1 sec cooldown. These encounters can also hit more than 1 enemy, since they are AoE, so PROPER POSITIONING to hit everything, would drastically increase the paingiver chart. This is especially true with small packs of mobs to bigger pulls.

    If the other dps arrive and fight at the scene first, chances are enemies are almost dead when you use your encounters/dailies/at wills, and the others are already heading to the next pack, leaving you with your encounters on cooldown, being unable to dish much damage.

    Again on positioning, as I see so many ranged people who cant get over the fact that they want to play from far away, are still losing combat advantage damage when they are TOO FAR, and if this cleric that outdpsed you fights mobs mostly at melee range, flanking mobs between him and the tank(or another player), then the cleric will deal far way more damage than you when you dont have Combat Advantage.

    Proper positioning, wise use of encounters/dailies, and not dying are the key to getting paingiver topped, if that is a thing you are concerned with.

    A cleric i know started topping paingiver in IC with 120kpower, but capped offensive stats, defense, and high enough HP, even if he was not using a "damaging" neck-waist-arti set by just applying what i mentioned above.

    In one run, this same cleric didnt leave the SW who has also a dps far behind in damage at the end of IC, which was around less than 10 mil difference, which is easily just a few critical strikes of encounters/dailies, which is just reliant on luck.

    While that SW may just be an exception, and not all SW can do damage like him, the same goes to any other class, not all barbs can deal damage, not all CWs do damage, not all HRs, TRs and Fighters do damage, and the Cleric is no exception.

    I hope you figure them out!
  • ripyourlipsoffripyourlipsoff Member Posts: 1,552 Arc User
    Haven't played since 2016 left because GWF were dumb OP. I came back last week and to relearn I leveled my lvl 38 Warlock to 80 and been having a blast. I am super low geared got maybe a 16,000 gear score.

    Was excited to try out end game and pvp, but this thread just bummed me out!
    Shieldbash 60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard 19.0k
    Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
    ==========================================


    ~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User

    Haven't played since 2016 left because GWF were dumb OP. I came back last week and to relearn I leveled my lvl 38 Warlock to 80 and been having a blast. I am super low geared got maybe a 16,000 gear score.

    Was excited to try out end game and pvp, but this thread just bummed me out!

    Don't let it. There are tremendous exaggerations out there regarding the state of Warlock. Many players called foul even in M15, when Soulbinder in particular could be an excellent DPS for any boss fight that lasted longer than 15 seconds.

    If you compare Wizard, the daily experience of questing is much more enjoyable as Warlock. Wizard AoE is flat-out bad. Boss DPS is some of the best in the game, but not hugely better than other top DPS, and not as good as Arbiter.

    Warlock is competent at everything. Not the strongest AoE, but not the worst or the slowest. Not the highest single-target damage, but solid. It takes more skill to play a Warlock well in boss fights, but the damage potential is a bit lower than it should be.

    The problem with paying too much attention to the complaints is that jumping ship to play other classes is only a good idea if you enjoy them. If you stopped playing Warlock prematurely just because someone said it was weak (it's not), that would be kind of silly.

    Let's also not forget that M16 gave us an entirely new game in many respects, and we know from past experience that a few tweaks on Cryptic's end can easily shift the balance. I main a few different characters, but I've happily kept my Warlock pretty well updated and alternate playing him in ToMM to make good use of my keys.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • xxjahvier#9450 xxjahvier Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    Let's be clear, I'm not complaining about my class. I've been playing him for years now and he is pretty awesome at everything. My only point in the beginning of this thread is that a cleric w worse gear and stats did more damage. I out dps rogues and wizards w more power than me ALL the time and my power is now at 146. I know how to play my class and enjoy my toon immensely. Others should enjoy it as well because imo it is the best class
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited May 2020

    Let's be clear, I'm not complaining about my class. I've been playing him for years now and he is pretty awesome at everything. My only point in the beginning of this thread is that a cleric w worse gear and stats did more damage. I out dps rogues and wizards w more power than me ALL the time and my power is now at 146. I know how to play my class and enjoy my toon immensely. Others should enjoy it as well because imo it is the best class

    To your original point (though others in this thread have addressed it very well), even if Arbiter and Hellbringer were on equal footing in terms of DPS (they're not; Arbiter has the advantage right now), you were missing key equipment that the Arbiter might have had.

    For example, the weapon enchantment you had at the start of the thread was very bad, and you weren't using one of the better neck and belt sets. These things may seem small on their own, but just a few tweaks in terms of equipment (not just Power) can make the difference of tens of millions of damage in a ToMM run.

    My point is just that there are other things you could be doing to bridge a portion of that gap. No, Arbiter is not a fair comparison in the current state of the game, but there are a lot of moving parts to making any class perform at their best.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • ripyourlipsoffripyourlipsoff Member Posts: 1,552 Arc User
    I'll keep trucking along, I enjoy the Warlock and it has been a fun re learning experience.
    Shieldbash 60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard 19.0k
    Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
    ==========================================


    ~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
  • giz#2086 giz Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    DPS Warlock is fun, but it's almost a useless spec to be honest. At least there are better option for end game DPS.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    giz#2086 said:

    DPS Warlock is fun, but it's almost a useless spec to be honest. At least there are better option for end game DPS.

    giz, come on. Useless is a horrible exaggeration; it's not even close. Yes, there frankly are stronger options for end-game DPS, but there will always be something stronger unless you happen to be playing the current Flavor of the Month. By that logic, every DPS who isn't an Arbiter should retire from ToMM.

    I get that you're very dissatisfied, but hyperbole isn't helpful.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • pyrosorcererpyrosorcerer Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 137 Arc User
    > @giz#2086 said:
    > DPS Warlock is fun, but it's almost a useless spec to be honest. At least there are better option for end game DPS.

    Sounds more like you run it incorrectly if you think it is useless
  • giz#2086 giz Member Posts: 189 Arc User

    > @giz#2086 said:

    > DPS Warlock is fun, but it's almost a useless spec to be honest. At least there are better option for end game DPS.



    Sounds more like you run it incorrectly if you think it is useless

    No matter how good you can be..the class is wrong and ALL community see Warlock as a weak DPS class. No matter rotation, build, gear, etc. Other classes are better than you, and they will pick them and not a Warlock, it's a fact. The "you're running it wrong" is a topic here: https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1251903/theres-nothing-wrong-with-the-warlock-class-you-just-dont-know-how-to-play-it When people are LF a HDPS they are not thinking about Warlock, and yes, you can be carried but nothing more, Warlock isn't an optimal DPS, the class is a little bit better than in Mod 16, but still weak and we're behind other classes.
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    > @giz#2086 said:
    > (Quote)
    > No matter how good you can be..the class is wrong and ALL community see Warlock as a weak DPS class. No matter rotation, build, gear, etc. Other classes are better than you, and they will pick them and not a Warlock, it's a fact. The "you're running it wrong" is a topic here: https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1251903/theres-nothing-wrong-with-the-warlock-class-you-just-dont-know-how-to-play-it When people are LF a HDPS they are not thinking about Warlock, and yes, you can be carried but nothing more, Warlock isn't an optimal DPS, the class is a little bit better than in Mod 16, but still weak and we're behind other classes.

    No one carries my Warlock. I don’t need to care about what any misinformed LFG channel person thinks about the class because I’ve proven that I can perform and do it well enough that dealing enough damage for ToMM is not an issue. Does my Wizard do more? Yes, but he does more than almost anyone except a strong Arbiter. Doesn’t make Warlock the worst DPS ever or somehow crippled and needing a carry.

    Please stop trying to suggest that Warlock is broken and useless. It runs counter to your objective, because no one will take your constructive criticism of the class seriously when you continue to say things that aren’t true.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • xxjahvier#9450 xxjahvier Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    No one carries my warlock. I carry others all the time. The class is not broken but it does need some help.
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    I carry people from my guild because I am currently the best dps of my guild (since the best wizards of my guild left). I am even sometimes first dps in Tomm in a 6-dps group.
    Yes warlock if fun to play.

    But the truth is that I am still feeling carried for endgame instances, because there are are always better players than you, or broken classes of the moment, or players/classes with better burst or better overall damage/self-buffs. All the problem of balance (I don't know why we were given crappy magnitudes when mod 16 was released).

    For me, dps warlocks are just fillers when an endgame group is created, they are not expected to be first dps (especially on solo target). If the target is burst too quickly by other players, you can say goodbye to to your own dps, especially if you cannot stack self-buffs (because of fight interruptions).

    The mod 19 preview gives some hope though, even if broken classes still exist.
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