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WHY WHY AN WHY IS THERE A CAR COMING TO NEVERWINTER

waxy#1523 waxy Member Posts: 134 Arc User
I really don't even know where to start with this why in the heck is there a car coming into Neverwinter please explain where in Dungeons & Dragons is there a freaking car that is insulting to Dungeons & Dragons that's worse then when you guys brought dinosaurs into the game why would you even do that I mean I understand a lot of the Young Generation really ain't the brightest crayons in the Box put on something that is supposed to be based off of the Dark Ages with magic where in the heck were cars involved that is stupid and insulting The Dungeons & Dragons

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  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    waxy#1523 said:

    I really don't even know where to start with this why in the heck is there a car coming into Neverwinter please explain where in Dungeons & Dragons is there a freaking car that is insulting to Dungeons & Dragons that's worse then when you guys brought dinosaurs into the game why would you even do that I mean I understand a lot of the Young Generation really ain't the brightest crayons in the Box put on something that is supposed to be based off of the Dark Ages with magic where in the heck were cars involved that is stupid and insulting The Dungeons & Dragons

    maybe you should tell that to the people that make dungeons and dragons.

    https://www.amazon.de/Dungeons-Dragons-Baldurs-Gate-Hardcover/dp/0786966769

    check this dnd book, there is a section about "infernal war machines" (basicly stuff similar to the cars we have in NW)
  • milehighxr#1299 milehighxr Member Posts: 461 Arc User
    You kinda forgot the Hellfire Engine mount from mod 16? I'm a gen Xer and I think the Hellfire engine looks cool, steam punkesque even.
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator

    FrozenFire
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User
    waxy#1523 said:

    I really don't even know where to start with this why in the heck is there a car coming into Neverwinter please explain where in Dungeons & Dragons is there a freaking car that is insulting to Dungeons & Dragons that's worse then when you guys brought dinosaurs into the game why would you even do that I mean I understand a lot of the Young Generation really ain't the brightest crayons in the Box put on something that is supposed to be based off of the Dark Ages with magic where in the heck were cars involved that is stupid and insulting The Dungeons & Dragons

    You might want to know a bit about DnD before saying things are insulting to it. Dinosaurs have always been a part of Chult, space and stardock has always been a thing, and Hell has had the war machines shown above. Everything in the game has to be approved by WotC, you know the ones who hold the DnD brand. Most, if not all of the above were added in by the original AD&D before WotC took over
  • colos#7661 colos Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    Dinosaurs were in the monster appendix of original Dungeon Masters guide hardcover, about 1979 I think it was. Man am I old.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Forget Chult, dinosaurs were a staple of the 1st edition Monster Manual, back in the 1970s.

    There was also stuff like (the very official TSR module) "Expedition to The Barrier Peaks" (late 70s early 80s) where wizards and elves were running round Greyhawk shooting laser rifles at each other after investigating a crashed UFO. The party face command code computer access issues, alien viruses, a dangerously cute bunny rabbit, and a "Karate Master" teaching robot.
    So, from a "purist" point of view having Mad Max style cars in Hell is not exactly pushing the envelope.

    As long as these "Infernal Machines" are kept to the zone in which they belong, and the game doesn't turn into
    "Grand Theft Arcana" then it's nothing more than part of the long tradition of D&D poaching ideas from other settings.
    D&D was never as fully tongue in cheek as Flying Buffalo were with their Tunnels and Trolls riffs, but D&D has always had some degree of cheek poking going on.

    And as far as credentials go, I've been playing the table top variant since the 1970s, and have little time for any rules system post 2nd Edition, so I am firmly in the grumpy old "purist" mould. But I understand that the purity of the game comes mainly from it's overall tone and not from some individual sense of "what I like and don't like" about it.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    Just because the "powers that be" did/do something doesn't make it good, and certainly doesn't obscure the absolute dearth of creativity you come across now and then in the canon.

    For every player that gets excited over stuff like dinosaurs, demons, and combustion engines, two players could care less, and three more think it's the stupidest thing they've ever heard.

    Dnders could have done something clever with the concept of terrible lizards... They did not.
    - could have done something new and strange with the idea of infernal beings... They did not.
    - could find some interesting and novel way to mechanize and power mounts... Well, I suppose we could cross our fingers in the hopes history will learn a new trick.

    Me, I just hope they incorporate an exhaust wrap or go electric so I don't have to listen to a bunch of noise. Every summer I get dirtbikers and fourwheelers at my end of the street that are absolutely obnoxious. It would really suck to have to deal with that in game and irl.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,133 Arc User
    For some people it's (the car) an immersion issue even if it's canon. I can see that and I personally don't care for it but I know they have to do something because there is only so much they can so with the same old fantasy tropes over and over again. They are trying to make the game more exciting and perhaps even attract a bigger audience which again is fair. I'll grind through it but not something I am really looking forward to.

    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User

    ...they have to do something because there is only so much they can so with the same old fantasy tropes over and over again...

    And yet - everything they've done so far is more imaginative than a car.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    - walking -

    would be more creative than a car.

    butt-scooting
    would be more creative than a car

    Heck, give me a way to move at 140%+ speed without having to hit a mount key at all, and I'd be thrilled.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    But if they're going to press forward on this trip into the mundane,
    make it an el camino with a classic camper.

    At least be bold.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,133 Arc User

    But if they're going to press forward on this trip into the mundane,
    make it an el camino with a classic camper.

    At least be bold.

    I want The Family Truckster. (Some of you young 'uns won't get that reference.)
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User

    But if they're going to press forward on this trip into the mundane,
    make it an el camino with a classic camper.

    At least be bold.

    They can't. WotC wouldn't approve of it.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • volournvolourn Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    The DnD multi verse covers every world - yes even 'Earth'. That said, I don't know if a modern car works but the 'hell engine' sure does.
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    edited May 2020

    Just because the "powers that be" did/do something doesn't make it good, and certainly doesn't obscure the absolute dearth of creativity you come across now and then in the canon.

    For every player that gets excited over stuff like dinosaurs, demons, and combustion engines, two players could care less, and three more think it's the stupidest thing they've ever heard.

    Dnders could have done something clever with the concept of terrible lizards... They did not.
    - could have done something new and strange with the idea of infernal beings... They did not.
    - could find some interesting and novel way to mechanize and power mounts... Well, I suppose we could cross our fingers in the hopes history will learn a new trick.

    Me, I just hope they incorporate an exhaust wrap or go electric so I don't have to listen to a bunch of noise. Every summer I get dirtbikers and fourwheelers at my end of the street that are absolutely obnoxious. It would really suck to have to deal with that in game and irl.

    i agree, but for once, its not cryptics fault that the avernus module that the guys at dungeons and dragons made has those cars in it.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,405 Arc User
    volourn said:

    The DnD multi verse covers every world - yes even 'Earth'. That said, I don't know if a modern car works but the 'hell engine' sure does.

    Excuse this idiot that doesn't read every single sourcebook ever released, but is there an actual in-universe explanation that connect Faerun to the real world?

    I'm super curious as to how that would work, unless I'm overthinking it and it's simply "a wizard opened some portal somewhere" explanation.

  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    volourn said:

    The DnD multi verse covers every world - yes even 'Earth'. That said, I don't know if a modern car works but the 'hell engine' sure does.

    Excuse this idiot that doesn't read every single sourcebook ever released, but is there an actual in-universe explanation that connect Faerun to the real world?

    I'm super curious as to how that would work, unless I'm overthinking it and it's simply "a wizard opened some portal somewhere" explanation.
    In simple terms basically, but there are multiple prime material planes. Most common ones are Eberron, Toril (world of the Forgotten Realms in which Faerun is a continent), etc. Exandria is one of the more recent canon additions thanks to Matthew Mercer and the Critical Role gang, but basically any world that the DM comes up with exists in the multi-verse. Normally such worlds don't really cross over or even really know about each other, just those who travel the planes often, and knowledge of how to cross over is even rarer.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    "multiverse" can go into the heap with hell cars, dinosaurs, demons, and names loaded with x, y, and z
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    edited May 2020

    Heck, give me a way to move at 140%+ speed without having to hit a mount key at all, and I'd be thrilled.

    FrozenFire
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    volourn said:

    The DnD multi verse covers every world - yes even 'Earth'. That said, I don't know if a modern car works but the 'hell engine' sure does.

    Excuse this idiot that doesn't read every single sourcebook ever released, but is there an actual in-universe explanation that connect Faerun to the real world?

    I'm super curious as to how that would work, unless I'm overthinking it and it's simply "a wizard opened some portal somewhere" explanation.
    Long before WoTC started cracking down on "Lore" D&D, and Forgotten Realms in particular, existed so that creative Dungeon Masters could use their own imagination and build their own worlds, (The 1st Ed DMG is far bigger than the PHB because it devotes a lot of effort into that very subject) and FR provided a simple setting in which to do that. Originally it wasn't meant to be anywhere near as detailed as it has become, because obviously if you can say "THIS is what goes on in that specific location..." you can sell it.

    But way back in annals of time there was a book called Deities and Demigods.
    It took many religions and faiths from various fantasy settings and established the Heroes and Demigods with typical D&D stats. We had Cthulhu, Nehwon (Grey Mouser/Fafhrd), and the Elric stuff. There were pseudo historical heroic pantheons such as the Arthurian heroes, as well as real Earth religions. Did you know that Tiamat originated in the mythology of Bayblon/Mesopotamia?

    In fact most of the Pantheons covered are of real Earth religions. And not all are like the archaic Norse, Celtic, Ancient Greek or Eqyptian mythologies, but are still widely practised today. I imagine if someone tried to "catalogue" the Gods of the Hindu faith (such as "Vishnu") today for inclusion in a "fantasy" role playing game there would be public outrage.

    But whatever you think of whether old D&D stuff has any relevance, I'm not sure how Infernal Machines racing round the dust planes of the first layer of Hell connects to the "Real World" anyway?

    For what it's worth, my youngest has had his Rogue in NW for about 7 months and is about L30, he only started playing to see what it was like... he spends more time in Forza/NFS games at which he is very good. I gave up trying to race against him about 2 years ago and he's just got better.
    I showed him some of the clips from Mod 19, and now he is in full "fast track" mode to get to L80 before the mod drops on XBox just so he can drive one of those cars. Because despite it being unlikely to replicate the style and RW physics of his racing games, the idea of being able to drive round like Mad Max, score kills like Frankenstein in Death Race 2000 then jump out and start stabbing things is very much of interest to him.

    For a fantasy world game, the notion that "I haven't seen it before, (even though it is right there in black and white in the source material) so it's not right." is a load of bollocks in my opinion.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,133 Arc User
    There's I haven't seen it before, (even though it is right there in black and white in the source material) so it's not right." and there's "I have seen it before in the source material but even so it doesn't feel right."

    I just don't like the idea but I'm sure there are loads of people who don't like the stuff I like best in NW as well. NW is a big playground and even if there are some areas that bore or don't interest me, I'd never say that they shouldn't exist. I'm just a little down that we have to use the car (from what I understand) tho I may be wrong on that or it may change.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User

    I'm just a little down that we have to use the car (from what I understand) tho I may be wrong on that or it may change.

    You don't have to use it, you can hop out of it and hop on your own mount if you want...but you will be travelling a LOT slower, even if you have a legendary mount. The only time you will use it though is to travel from place to place on the map, like the boat in the Sea of Moving Ice, but faster and no fishing or anything related.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,133 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    I'm just a little down that we have to use the car (from what I understand) tho I may be wrong on that or it may change.

    You don't have to use it, you can hop out of it and hop on your own mount if you want...but you will be travelling a LOT slower, even if you have a legendary mount. The only time you will use it though is to travel from place to place on the map, like the boat in the Sea of Moving Ice, but faster and no fishing or anything related.
    Apparently to get some resources you have to participate in a race. They haven't said race each other or NPCs or timer yet as fas as I know.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User

    There's I haven't seen it before, (even though it is right there in black and white in the source material) so it's not right." and there's "I have seen it before in the source material but even so it doesn't feel right."

    I just don't like the idea but I'm sure there are loads of people who don't like the stuff I like best in NW as well. NW is a big playground and even if there are some areas that bore or don't interest me, I'd never say that they shouldn't exist. I'm just a little down that we have to use the car (from what I understand) tho I may be wrong on that or it may change.

    This is it.
    There's always going to be stuff that doesn't fit with your ideal image of the game, and for the most part those things form only a small part of the experience.
    People playing "air guitar" makes me roll my eyes, but they're having fun and I don't have to do it. (But it does HAMSTER me off that I default into that pose when entering the Hell Pit.)

    Just before the Acquisitions Inc mod dropped there seemed to be a fairly even balance between people who loved that... whatever it's meant to be... and there were those who couldn't stand it.
    Funnily enough, since it landed there don't seem to be many people I know who look forward to starting a new character so they can hear those same 6 jokes every day for two months...

    As to being forced to use it, I think there are a couple of AI race quests, (I have no idea if they are mainline or side quests) then it's up to you whether you use it or not. To me that's no more invasive than the various introductory Hunt quests, or...... HAMSTER Fishing.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,259 Arc User
    I dont like it either but

    A car is nothing compared with Acquisitions Inc.
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  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,133 Arc User

    I dont like it either but

    A car is nothing compared with Acquisitions Inc.

    I'd take a broken down VW Bug over AI.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
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