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For the love of every frickin god and evil demon in the game universe, make balanced teams.

gradiigradii Member Posts: 280 Arc User
edited April 2020 in Player Feedback (PC)
Epic Skirmishes should NEVER be 5 dps- ever.

This results in 3 out of every 5 epic Skirmishes a newer player queues into (someone who can pull their weight in a team but not hard carry) being an abject failure.

NO EPIC CONTENT should be without a tank and a healer. at BARE minimum a healer.

normal dungeons and skirmishes are of course so easy theres never a need, but the fact is 99% of the playerbase lacks the skill or gear to compensate for a total lack of healing in a pug epic.
Post edited by gradii on
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Comments

  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,320 Arc User
    Trials are 6 DPS, 2 Tank, 2 Healer. I don't think you are talking about Trials.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 280 Arc User
    Oh sorry I mis typed, what I meant was Skirmish. I get confused with what all the different games call things, I've played like 8 MMOs all with different names for stuff.

    in one, a trial is an 8 man single boss fight, in another a trial is a 12 man raid, and so forth. I meant Skirmish.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 280 Arc User

    gradii said:

    Oh sorry I mis typed, what I meant was Skirmish. I get confused with what all the different games call things, I've played like 8 MMOs all with different names for stuff.

    in one, a trial is an 8 man single boss fight, in another a trial is a 12 man raid, and so forth. I meant Skirmish.

    The skirmish queue used to require 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 DPS. People complained: "no one needs tank/heals to complete skirmishes and the requirements were only making the queues take more time to pop". They changed it and removed the requirements. Now people complain: there isn't tanks and healers on skirmishes.

    I think they should put the requirements back in next mod so that the cycle can begin once more.
    Those requirements are only needed in the level 70+ skirmishes. but they are needed for random groups. at least 80% of all randos you queue into will struggle terribly without a healer or tank.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User

    gradii said:

    Oh sorry I mis typed, what I meant was Skirmish. I get confused with what all the different games call things, I've played like 8 MMOs all with different names for stuff.

    in one, a trial is an 8 man single boss fight, in another a trial is a 12 man raid, and so forth. I meant Skirmish.

    The skirmish queue used to require 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 DPS. People complained: "no one needs tank/heals to complete skirmishes and the requirements were only making the queues take more time to pop". They changed it and removed the requirements. Now people complain: there isn't tanks and healers on skirmishes.

    I think they should put the requirements back in next mod so that the cycle can begin once more.
    Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
  • xenocide#6119 xenocide Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    You know it a bit of a trade off to require or not require tanks/healers for skirmish.

    1. No tank/healer is required and sometimes you will fail if you get an under geared party and kessel's retreat. Not being able to complete a random sucks but its not the worst.

    2. A Tank & Healer are required and your queue times are probably going to be an hour as a dps maybe longer to run a random skirmish. Support classes dont need rough astral diamonds, chances are most of them are capped and they are only there to help a friend pop queue.

    If you put a requirement for a tank/healer into the skirmish queue Its going to take you longer (as a dps) to get a queue to pop than it will to be able to run (and finish) a skirmish most of the time.
  • milehighxr#1299 milehighxr Member Posts: 412 Arc User

    You know it a bit of a trade off to require or not require tanks/healers for skirmish.

    1. No tank/healer is required and sometimes you will fail if you get an under geared party and kessel's retreat. Not being able to complete a random sucks but its not the worst.

    2. A Tank & Healer are required and your queue times are probably going to be an hour as a dps maybe longer to run a random skirmish. Support classes dont need rough astral diamonds, chances are most of them are capped and they are only there to help a friend pop queue.

    If you put a requirement for a tank/healer into the skirmish queue Its going to take you longer (as a dps) to get a queue to pop than it will to be able to run (and finish) a skirmish most of the time.

    I main a tank, and while he's within a hairs breath of 27k, I still need rad. I have 4 alts to gear up, and several enchants to finish bringing to up to max. So yeah, I'm a tank, and I need rad... But I won't ever do skirmish to bump my daily rad as it fails 99% of the last several times I tried since the new requirements. Not fun wasting 15-30 min cuz the rest of the group is too low, or cuz they can't figure out how to do it...
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,039 Arc User
    edited April 2020

    You know it a bit of a trade off to require or not require tanks/healers for skirmish.

    1. No tank/healer is required and sometimes you will fail if you get an under geared party and kessel's retreat. Not being able to complete a random sucks but its not the worst.

    2. A Tank & Healer are required and your queue times are probably going to be an hour as a dps maybe longer to run a random skirmish. Support classes dont need rough astral diamonds, chances are most of them are capped and they are only there to help a friend pop queue.

    If you put a requirement for a tank/healer into the skirmish queue Its going to take you longer (as a dps) to get a queue to pop than it will to be able to run (and finish) a skirmish most of the time.

    I main a tank, and while he's within a hairs breath of 27k, I still need rad. I have 4 alts to gear up, and several enchants to finish bringing to up to max. So yeah, I'm a tank, and I need rad... But I won't ever do skirmish to bump my daily rad as it fails 99% of the last several times I tried since the new requirements. Not fun wasting 15-30 min cuz the rest of the group is too low, or cuz they can't figure out how to do it...
    I assume what he meant was for tank and healer, they could reach their daily account 100K refinement cap in only a few runs in other more rAD reward dungeons (instead of Skirmish). After that, they don't really need to run beyond getting more rAD that will take more time to refine.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 280 Arc User
    ok how do you earn 100k AD a day at all? none of my level 80 characters (one is a tank) come close.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,341 Arc User
    Aside from the 4 random queues, you have Expeditions which range from 15k rAD to 35k (depending on if you have warden/fragment) just from the Zok Boxes. You also can run any dungeon without being in random queue for the end chests, edemo has a decent time/ad turnaround for example. That's not even counting the various weekly quests for AD, seal exchanges, etc. Even if you can't get a good group for the random epic dungeons, you should be able to hit the cap easily and build up an excess amount for the days in which you don't have time to reach the limit.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 280 Arc User
    I havent got significant AD from Zok Boxes but I have got from Juma bags in Avernus Sieges, however the issue with siege is the timer on zone change makes it impractical to farm if you dont have VIP travel.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,281 Arc User
    One random trial can get you around 70k rAD.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 280 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    One random trial can get you around 70k rAD.

    If I could do those. I need higher item level, and farming siege doesn't work becuase I can never be in the zone before its full- and any time I could- I'm locked out becuase of their idiotic "feature" where you have to wait 2 minutes between transfers- something no other game on the same server farm and same general engine does.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,341 Arc User
    I know several games with that feature, it's generally there to prevent abuse, but like others have said, you can change to another zone then back when you do have a party invite (for Avernus the zone in area and Ape HE are close enough to where VIP shouldn't make much of a difference). Do MEs until you have the item level needed for trials, you don't need much. Even the weeklies in Avernus should get you a decent amount of currency for Juma bags. Zok boxes give a flat 5k rAD per box.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,320 Arc User
    > @gradii said:
    > I havent got significant AD from Zok Boxes but I have got from Juma bags in Avernus Sieges, however the issue with siege is the timer on zone change makes it impractical to farm if you dont have VIP travel.

    You don't need the signpost. I have it and don't use it for that. Siege takes longer than the restriction on changing zones. By the time the HE is done, you shouldn't have issue switching. The instance is usually full long before the HE is close to done.

    You can even move from Siege to Ape using the teleport circle from Village to Castle and vice versa.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,039 Arc User
    edited April 2020
    Getting to Siege HE is easier than other type of HE.
    1. you need to enable the portal from the Stronghold to the one next to Siege site.
    2. Stay in Avernus Stronghold.
    3. Get the invite.
    4. Go to PE.
    5. Come back to Avernus
    6. Use the portal to go to Siege site.
    7. After you finish the HE, you don't have the 2 minute timer anymore. It takes way more than 2 minutes to finish siege HE.
    8. Stay on the camp fire. Go to the next siege instance you want with or without invite.

    You don't need signpost.
    Post edited by plasticbat on
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 280 Arc User
    How do I enable this portal?
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,341 Arc User
    By doing the weekly quests where you activate the portal at the end. There are 4 such portals, as you progress through the campaign you get more weeklies. The village portal is the 2nd weekly and should be unlock-able in the first week.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,039 Arc User
    FYI, the portal needs to be re-activated every week by doing the weekly quest (Restore the Village Glyphworks). The weekly quest itself also gives 100 Chaotic Writings worth 1 juma's bag. Way faster to do than any Siege HE (assuming you are strong enough to solo it).
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,320 Arc User
    I am pretty sure that after you do the story quest to unlock the portal initially, it only deactivates when you take the weekly quest to reactivate it. If you take the quest and then drop it, the portal is again functional. Only take the quest when you are ready to do it.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,039 Arc User
    pitshade said:

    I am pretty sure that after you do the story quest to unlock the portal initially, it only deactivates when you take the weekly quest to reactivate it. If you take the quest and then drop it, the portal is again functional. Only take the quest when you are ready to do it.

    I stand corrected.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,535 Arc User
    Am I missing something?

    I have run at least hundreds of skirmishes and have failed maybe once or twice on Kessell. Other than that I have never failed a Skirmish. So my fail rate is less than 1%

    There was one time I got called into a Dread Ring that had been running for 20 minutes and they werent even at the boss! They were a lolsome group to say the least.
  • zyronaxzyronax Member Posts: 153 Arc User
    > @gradii said:
    > ok how do you earn 100k AD a day at all? none of my level 80 characters (one is a tank) come close.

    Successfully complete your random queues - especially the top two: RTQ & REQ. Then run them some more times. Have keys for the extra chests at the end - they also reward extra rAD.

    If you're skilled at your class, have appropriate gear (IL isn't everything although you will need a certain amount to unlock both REQ and RTQ), know the content (practice), and hopefully don't get stuck with too many numpties who think Demo is best won by opening green portals instead of purple ones, etc. and you'll have your 100k rAD or more within 1-2 hours if there isn't too much downtime waiting (or wiping). You might also get desired drops that may be unbound and can be sold on AH. If you run characters with bonus rAD accumulated from invoking, it adds up even faster.

    If you want queues to pop faster, play a support class and/or form your own party before queueing.

    Personally I find that RTQ offers better odds at successful runs due to some of the dungeons on the REQ list (ex. LOMM, Castle Ravenloft, etc.) even though RTQ is at the top of the random queue table.
  • therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited April 2020

    The skirmish queue used to require 1 tank, 1 healer and 3 DPS. People complained: "no one needs tank/heals to complete skirmishes and the requirements were only making the queues take more time to pop". They changed it and removed the requirements. Now people complain: there isn't tanks and healers on skirmishes.

    I said it once or twice on this forum already, the best solution would be to get rid of any team composition REQUIREMENT. For any random queue.

    A better solution would be to replace it with a buff system via a "recommended team composition" (RTC). The RTC is estimated "live" and not only at entering the queue. When your team meets the RTC, it gets buffs to their stats, crit severity, cooldown timers, whatever. The possibility for buffs are vast. When the team does not meet the RTC, it does not get the buffs. As an additional benefit, this would also allow a team to change loadouts while being in the dungeon/trial/skirmish. The queue should be balanced against the RTC of course. But - as an example - if 5 DPS want to try the REDQ, this system would not stop them.

    Of course, when you queue for a run you must be able to select if you want a team that meets the RTC (which might take a longer time to find by the system) or if you go with any team (whicht might be faster to find by the system).

    Give people the freedom to decide how they want to run the random queues.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 280 Arc User
    That could work if it can make up for a lack of healing entirely, but the way it is now is not ok.
  • cracklepants#2252 cracklepants Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    Random skirmish does not require tank or heals. I have never failed a skirmish with all DPS. My only fail was when I was queued with 2 tanks and 1 heal on Kessel's. We (2DPS) were able to get him down to 25% 3 times then decided it was not going to happen. Skirmish does not need adjustment,
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 280 Arc User

    Random skirmish does not require tank or heals. I have never failed a skirmish with all DPS. My only fail was when I was queued with 2 tanks and 1 heal on Kessel's. We (2DPS) were able to get him down to 25% 3 times then decided it was not going to happen. Skirmish does not need adjustment,

    You got lucky. I'd rather wait longer in queue than wait and then have to try again later.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    gradii said:

    Random skirmish does not require tank or heals. I have never failed a skirmish with all DPS. My only fail was when I was queued with 2 tanks and 1 heal on Kessel's. We (2DPS) were able to get him down to 25% 3 times then decided it was not going to happen. Skirmish does not need adjustment,

    You got lucky. I'd rather wait longer in queue than wait and then have to try again later.
    you can go public queue CR and see if it ever pops.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User

    gradii said:

    Random skirmish does not require tank or heals. I have never failed a skirmish with all DPS. My only fail was when I was queued with 2 tanks and 1 heal on Kessel's. We (2DPS) were able to get him down to 25% 3 times then decided it was not going to happen. Skirmish does not need adjustment,

    You got lucky. I'd rather wait longer in queue than wait and then have to try again later.
    you can go public queue CR and see if it ever pops.
    or if strictly speaking of skirmish, go public queue on IG. have fun waiting.
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