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Rusted Iron Leggings +5% damage vs -25% incoming healing

sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
I came across these in the bottom of my Juma's Chicken Bag. As I finished chewing on the last bone fragment that didn't get stuck in my throat, I noticed the incoming healing actually hits a negative number! My barbarian slipped them on to check them out, and was rewarded with -11.3% incoming healing score.

I started to wonder, does this mean my healer (if he was equipped) would kill me in battle? For some reason, it didn't turn out that way... I checked my stats just using the chat window, because I am not a big stat hound. The only thing I could find dropping was my Barbarian's Revelry, and only a loss of 600 points. I tried a health potion in battle... nope same amount. I did several things to try to get wounded by the boots and not a damn thing. Here I thought I found the first "cursed item" in the game... ever.

I normally run with my Honey Badger and it doesn't seem to be a big deal to my barbarian. Any stat junkie with a parser, want to clue me in on where this hurts???
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Comments

  • nooneatzanooneatza Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    Incoming healing affects the size of the heals/shields healers put on you. Also people are saying(can't confirm, but seems to happen alot) you can "dodge" heals if you're on negative inc healing. This stat is relevant because of that, and because the more inc healing you have the bigger the heals you get, say you get coccooned at arcturia and you have 350k hp, coccoon usually puts you at like 10%, if healer isn't really well geared he may not be able to heal you to full in time.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    Basically don't want to wear these to a party, especially if you depend on the group to heal you.

    I will keep a different set on hand to slip on or wear these until my new favorite drops from a bag of chicken. My favorite foot wear is Mighty Storm Slippers. They have +5000 power as long as you are not using up your Action Points. I know it sounds weird, but I was so looking forward to owning a complete set of "cursed gear".

    Dungeon Master leers at you and says, "You have found the Cursed Cloak of the Unseen.".
    "Uh... what makes it cursed? How does it work? I will try it on."
    "You put it on and turn invisible, unseen and unheard by all around you.", the Dungeon Master grins, "As long as you remain invisible... you will not die."
    "Cool! Wait, what?"

    You know, the kind you normally get when you play D&D for real. :grin:

    wb-cenders.gif
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User
    This was talked about already... if you use the boots and don't balance the -25% incoming heal, you are just HAMSTER yourself and the healer.

    As a healer i can tell when people are using the boots just by how much i am healing for,and when i inspect and see negative incoming healing i just start ignoring that person in the dungeon, if they die... they die, and if they start crying about heals i just put them on the ignore list.... its quite simple
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,462 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Here we go again...

    The question was answered, lets, please, leave the party effects for the original thread...
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,629 Arc User

    I came across these in the bottom of my Juma's Chicken Bag. As I finished chewing on the last bone fragment that didn't get stuck in my throat, I noticed the incoming healing actually hits a negative number! My barbarian slipped them on to check them out, and was rewarded with -11.3% incoming healing score.

    I started to wonder, does this mean my healer (if he was equipped) would kill me in battle? For some reason, it didn't turn out that way... I checked my stats just using the chat window, because I am not a big stat hound. The only thing I could find dropping was my Barbarian's Revelry, and only a loss of 600 points. I tried a health potion in battle... nope same amount. I did several things to try to get wounded by the boots and not a damn thing. Here I thought I found the first "cursed item" in the game... ever.

    I normally run with my Honey Badger and it doesn't seem to be a big deal to my barbarian. Any stat junkie with a parser, want to clue me in on where this hurts???

    BTW, not the first cursed item. Many of the gears sold by the temp SH vendor had negative effects if you equipped them. IIRC correctly, one of them even took a little gold every time it activated.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,819 Arc User
    edited March 2020

    Basically don't want to wear these to a party, especially if you depend on the group to heal you.

    The gear gives you -25% incoming healing. You can offset it using other items. I have 2 toon wearing it with 0 to 0.3% incoming healing.

    No, this is not the first curse item in the game. The other curse items were not good enough to be useful. This may be the first useful one.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User



    No, this is not the first curse item in the game. The other curse items were not good enough to be useful. This may be the first useful one.



    coughcough

    Not like there was an item that made what was supposed to be a slow stack gathering attacker into a burst damage monster...

    Or an item that allowed Paladin tanks to acquire their old "gain 10% of your HP as Power when you are hit" passive without actually being the main tank...


  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    @micky1p00 sorry if I opened some old war wound, but since I just discovered these (I don't do Previews any more) as I said, new to me.
    rev#7881 said:

    This was talked about already... if you use the boots and don't balance the -25% incoming heal, you are just (insert objectionable word here) yourself and the healer.

    As a healer i can tell when people are using the boots just by how much i am healing for,and when i inspect and see negative incoming healing i just start ignoring that person in the dungeon, if they die... they die, and if they start crying about heals i just put them on the ignore list.... its quite simple

    :+1:
    That's ok Rev, I don't do dungeons either, so you won't see me in there with these boots. However in PvE, I am getting good damage boost and other than the loss of 600 points healing from my mount with the Barbarian's Revelry, I am not seeing the downside yet. I am very honest about the fact, I thought putting the Battlefield Medic in active mode would have just killed me. I will run with these for now, until those better boots drop.

    @plasticbat I never bought the armors in the stronghold, mostly because, I never cared much for the way it looked on me. I spend my marks on a lot of the food items.
    @rjc9000 But those wraps don't activate until you use a daily power, these boots are active all the time.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,819 Arc User


    @plasticbat I never bought the armors in the stronghold, mostly because, I never cared much for the way it looked on me. I spend my marks on a lot of the food items.

    I am not sure why the stronghold armor was bought up. I did not mention anything like that.
    For offsetting the negative incoming healing, I am using stronghold boon and Tactical in the utility slots.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,350 Arc User


    @rjc9000 But those wraps don't activate until you use a daily power, these boots are active all the time.

    It was very impactful for its time, it made the 3 (4) hit GF build.

    Also, it triggered on activation of a daily attack, it never said anything about actually consuming any Action Points (not until Mod 14, at least).

    Before most fights from when the wraps were introduced through Mod 14, DPS GFs would press Villain's Menace, shield, trigger the DoT, and shield again to build up stacks of Reckless Attacker/Shield Warrior's Wrath.

    For most fights with a competent team, this would eliminate one of the weaknesses of DPS GF (needing to get hit a lot to build damage stacks) and let you go straight to "apply Knight's Challenge, hit 3x with Griffons Wrath".

    It would not matter that you used a daily attack when you 3 (4) hit bosses or forced a phase change (or that daily attacks back then were free).

    After Mod 14, this "feature" was patched so GFs would have to expend a daily, but the same idea was still there: it allowed you to skip letting enemies hit you and get straight to making a mockery of asterdahl's boss programming within 10 seconds of Knight's Challenge.

  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Many healers have expressed 'dislike' over these boots because their "Heal output stats" become lessened. You might see party deaths that were avoidable. For this reason... some have posited that these boots should not be worn in partys.

    Now... the counter arguments:
    * If there were boots that caused -5% damage, +25% incoming healing... would you make all DPS wear them when in a group?
    * Damage is the group's damage, including the Healer.
    * There are few situations so brutal that incoming healing becomes the primary basis of group success/fail.
    * IF DPS wears these boots and isn't dying constantly... the group can proceed 5% faster.
    * If your group kills 5% faster, enemies will deal 5% less damage to the group.
    * Stones of Health & resurrection items & revive sickness boons & portals to remove revive sickness do not depend on healing.
    * How often do peeps not accept players into a party for using Dark enchantments instead of Tactical ones?


    Ultimately, It should be left up to each player what is best for them. Groups are free to coordinate, but dictation is a bad idea. It would be comedic for a player dealing half of total damage and self-healing 90% of their own damage, to have been kicked out at the start for wearing the wrong boots.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    edited March 2020


    @plasticbat I never bought the armors in the stronghold, mostly because, I never cared much for the way it looked on me. I spend my marks on a lot of the food items.

    I am not sure why the stronghold armor was bought up. I did not mention anything like that.
    For offsetting the negative incoming healing, I am using stronghold boon and Tactical in the utility slots.
    Ok I misunderstood, I wasn't making the connection with the "Tactical Enchantment". My brain went on vacation and was thinking about those overload enchantments sold in the stronghold at the shops.

    I pretty much upgrade all my character's armors and weapons every 4 modules. With the current module, they only did armor and no weapons. I don't know if anyone has done a study on the probabilities, it appears the boots and gloves are the rarest to drop from the bags of chicken. This is my plan;
    Character ClassHeadArmorGlovesBoots
    wizardFancy Duelist Mask of CormyrDark Ritual RobeFrenzy MittsMighty Storm Slippers
    clericFancy Duelist Mask of CormyrClingy Leather CoatShielded Defender VambraceArmando's Dueling Boots
    warlockFancy Duelist Mask of CormyrDark Ritual RobeBralliel's Planar BindingsMighty Storm Slippers
    rogueVeil of the Blinking BeastClingy Leather CoatSpiked Defender VambraceArmando's Dueling Boots
    barbarianFancy Duelist Mask of CormyrClingy Leather CoatSpiked Defender VambraceMighty Storm Slippers
    ranger????????????
    I am still mulling over things with my ranger.
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  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,819 Arc User
    so far, my gear drop from Juma bags (excluding other types: rAD, mount, companion, chicken farm, ...):
    15 head
    11 chest
    10 arm
    15 boot

    The rarest among them is Frenzy Mitts. I got only one pair.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    edited March 2020

    so far, my gear drop from Juma bags (excluding other types: rAD, mount, companion, chicken farm, ...):
    15 head
    11 chest
    10 arm
    15 boot

    The rarest among them is Frenzy Mitts. I got only one pair.

    I have 8 characters in total, but 2 are only at 6% completion. I did get 2 of the Frenzy Mitts. Also I got a second pair of the Rusted Iron Leggings, which I sold off to the vendor. Also I got the Green Owl Bear mount, which kind of surprised me. Anyone know if the bags drop any epic or legendary mounts? :lol:
    wb-cenders.gif
  • sagakaiyume#0847 sagakaiyume Member Posts: 335 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    They do drop epic mounts, people have gotten many kind. Epic companions too, ioun stone of allure seems common. Along with coalwards, I've seen one of those drop myself. I've also gotten so far 21 genies gift. Anyway, instead of further editing this post, just know there are many goodies in there.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,211 Arc User
    My ranger got a Striped Owlbear mount from Juma.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,819 Arc User
    I got a Epic Neverwinter guard which I passed to my cleric for the outgoing healing.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,397 Arc User
    I offset my boots on my DPS toons with Tacticals and an Ioun stone of allure. I run at -3% incoming healing. I +1 tactical or -1 depending on content and group. Tacticals offer +6% at R15. Ioun stone of allure is 2k power 10% incoming healing in a defensive pet slot!!!
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    Some player new to Avernus was online this morning asking how to farm the Rusted Iron Leggings! I told him about the Chicken Bags sold by Juma. I asked him, if he read that gave a -25% incoming healing, and he replied that he was fully aware but wanted the 5% damage. I seriously would have given him mine for nothing if is wasn't BtA.

    Also I found Shielded Defender Vambrace in a bag, this seems almost the same without the debuff. Instead of a constant +5%, it builds up to 5% with each hit on your character. Then as you strike back it removes 1% from the stack. The way I see it, wait to get pummeled a little and then start hitting back. I noticed that my Dark Ritual Robe tosses green energy health packs to anyone who picks them up. I was doing Summoning Circle HE and a fighter was closer to them and he was scooping up the mini heals.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,819 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    ---
    Post edited by plasticbat on
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,397 Arc User

    Some player new to Avernus was online this morning asking how to farm the Rusted Iron Leggings! I told him about the Chicken Bags sold by Juma. I asked him, if he read that gave a -25% incoming healing, and he replied that he was fully aware but wanted the 5% damage. I seriously would have given him mine for nothing if is wasn't BtA.

    Also I found Shielded Defender Vambrace in a bag, this seems almost the same without the debuff. Instead of a constant +5%, it builds up to 5% with each hit on your character. Then as you strike back it removes 1% from the stack. The way I see it, wait to get pummeled a little and then start hitting back. I noticed that my Dark Ritual Robe tosses green energy health packs to anyone who picks them up. I was doing Summoning Circle HE and a fighter was closer to them and he was scooping up the mini heals.

    The DPS gloves I'm wearing are the Spiked Defenders Vambraces. You build up to 5% Damage Resistance when hitting enemies, then when your hit it converts to 5% damage. Works the opposite of the gloves you've mentioned. It will come down to survivability tbh. I have stats capped and 350k HP so I'm happy to take the aggro and beating and keep the enemies ticking :)
  • zebulondaktoidzebulondaktoid Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    -25% incoming healing applies to your default 100% incoming healing so you would have 75% of the normal heals if you were to wear the leggings. Just like artisans that have positive or negative bonuses to either speed or commission cost, the bonus affects the actual default speed or commission.
    Edit: BTW, as a dps with an ioun stone slotted I have a total of -15% incoming healing. This has virtually no negative impact on me at all as a decent healer will generally heal me for far more HP than I actually need to get to full health.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    @zebulondaktoid I kind of thought so, "bonus healing" would be a better term to use and not just incoming healing.

    I imagine, I will have a lot to choose from before I get done with the campaign. Those "Bralliel's Planar Bindings" are nice but I wish the summon would last a little longer. Meanwhile, I returned to play out my Monday quests and find more enemies in those old zones just melt. New gear is very nice, but I don't know if we should all be god-like, it removes the element of disaster, that makes adventures fun.

    wb-cenders.gif
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,462 Arc User
    Group content is where disasters happen.
  • zebulondaktoidzebulondaktoid Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    @sandukutupu I think they kinda assumed people would realise. Like the +100% speed bonus for artisans, people thought this meant artisans would complete tasks immediately instead of just being able to complete tasks twice as fast.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,819 Arc User

    @sandukutupu I think they kinda assumed people would realise. Like the +100% speed bonus for artisans, people thought this meant artisans would complete tasks immediately instead of just being able to complete tasks twice as fast.

    Well, this is the first time I heard people thinks this way. I heard other weird interpretation in the past but this one is new to me.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • some1stolemynicknamesome1stolemynickname Member Posts: 90 Arc User

    -25% incoming healing applies to your default 100% incoming healing so you would have 75% of the normal heals if you were to wear the leggings. Just like artisans that have positive or negative bonuses to either speed or commission cost, the bonus affects the actual default speed or commission.
    Edit: BTW, as a dps with an ioun stone slotted I have a total of -15% incoming healing. This has virtually no negative impact on me at all as a decent healer will generally heal me for far more HP than I actually need to get to full health.

    You wouldn't be priority for heals from me when I play a healer...the tank would. I'd have no problem with your way of thinking if you're able to self heal here and there. What you consider to be a "decent" healer is actually one that wastes their resources on you until you're healed fully, or is actually elite geared. The only time an average decent healer would be able to fill your hp bar with 1 shot is on a crit heal.

    Unfortunately healers can only crit heal 50% of the time...and that's IF they have a perfect ratio of 1:1.25 power:crit. So what you're expecting healers to do is make up for your self lacking. There is absolutely no reason anyone should have -15% incoming heals (nevermind people with -25% lol). Use of tactical enchantments in 5 utility slots along with stronghold ich boon would take a lot of the burden off of the healer, thus increase your serviceability.

    These boots should be worn only by players who know how to self heal, or make up for the ich loss. Never wear them in LoMM on the first boss unless you're the later. We can't rely on crit heals to fill your hp bar fast enough, unless possibly a cleric.

    Don't assume you know things without playing the actual role. I can tell when players are using those boots and not making up for the -25%. It's actually very easy to see...even when the player has -10%.

  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    Yeah I have a pair, but I don't actually use them.
    In cases where the damage boost would actually matter, they are too dangerous to wear.
    In cases where the damage boost wouldn't matter, it's pointless to go through the trouble to swap around your gear just to save a few seconds' time.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    With the purchase of 3 Tactical enchants at rank 8 (very cheap) I brought her healing bonus up to -4.4% with the boots on.

    Meanwhile been considering swapping them out for the barbed cultist boots. Those make you lose 20% for 10 seconds. I still prefer the Mighty Storm Slippers, if only Juma would stop selling me all that chicken!
    wb-cenders.gif
  • cdnbisoncdnbison Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    rev#7881 said:

    This was talked about already... if you use the boots and don't balance the -25% incoming heal, you are just HAMSTER yourself and the healer.

    As a healer i can tell when people are using the boots just by how much i am healing for,and when i inspect and see negative incoming healing i just start ignoring that person in the dungeon, if they die... they die, and if they start crying about heals i just put them on the ignore list.... its quite simple

    Cleric main, and yes, it's quite obvious when someone is wearing these boots. With +60% outgoing healing, the only one who *might* not get filled up with a Bastion is a tank with too many HP. Maybe. So when I drop Bastion on a DPS, and it doesn't take them from half to full - I know. Even when people "counteract" the effect with tacticals, I can tell.

    This isn't the end of the world if you're in relatively trivial content, but in anything where those heals are needed, and needed fast - swap those boots out. Remember - your DPS when dead is zero.
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