It would be a lot easier for everyone to just get rid of the random queue and let players decide which content they want to run for the daily RAD rewards. One for Epic Trial, one for Epic Dungeon and so on with the daily RAD reward tied to it from the random queue. If people only want to do the easiest content for their daily RAD I don't see a problem with this since you can only refine 100k AD per account anyways. When those players want to do something more challenging they will seek those dungeons and trials out on their own instead of suddenly being dropped in there through the random queue.
And again, we're back to people queuing for content and waiting through their entire play time because it just never pops.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
It would be a lot easier for everyone to just get rid of the random queue and let players decide which content they want to run for the daily RAD rewards. One for Epic Trial, one for Epic Dungeon and so on with the daily RAD reward tied to it from the random queue. If people only want to do the easiest content for their daily RAD I don't see a problem with this since you can only refine 100k AD per account anyways. When those players want to do something more challenging they will seek those dungeons and trials out on their own instead of suddenly being dropped in there through the random queue.
And again, we're back to people queuing for content and waiting through their entire play time because it just never pops.
Part of this is due to a huge majority of players run randoms with their guild/alliance. They fill the requirement and queue. Pure pug queue will cost you time depending on your queued class. DPS tend to have to wait the longest, but if you queue as healer or tank, it almost instantly pops.
There is also a reason for this, playing healer is boring and tedious with no reward for it. Playing a tank might be a little more enjoyable for some players but still a huge demand which causes a majority of players to go DPS instead so they can avoid the party aggro when things don't go smooth.
I don't know how many times, seriously it has been many... joining random trial as pug as dps just because and I get Demo and both healers in the group do nothing. They don't keep the tank alive who is tanking the boss during the first phase and so the tank dies and then the boss runs around killing everyone. They don't heal any of the dps fighting the spawns from the portals and so the first phase times out before gold is achieved.
Why am I complaining, its because I am not alone in these experiences which is why players would rather spend an hour looking in their alliance for members to join their random queues than pug and get players who either don't have any clue what they are doing or they simply don't care.
It would be a lot easier for everyone to just get rid of the random queue and let players decide which content they want to run for the daily RAD rewards. One for Epic Trial, one for Epic Dungeon and so on with the daily RAD reward tied to it from the random queue. If people only want to do the easiest content for their daily RAD I don't see a problem with this since you can only refine 100k AD per account anyways. When those players want to do something more challenging they will seek those dungeons and trials out on their own instead of suddenly being dropped in there through the random queue.
And again, we're back to people queuing for content and waiting through their entire play time because it just never pops.
Nah, everyone would just pick the easiest content and it would pop a lot faster than current wait times in the random queue. Now, if you are looking to run more difficult content then sure you may have to wait for others to queue for that content. But, that's what guilds/alliances/pre-made groups are for. I run the random trial queue (even after I receive my daily RAD) as a dps and there are more fails than successes for various reasons depending on what content appears.
For Demo its players opening too many portals so others just quit due to having a bad experience during the first phase. For Svardborg its players not breaking the ice. For CODG its aiming the skull, taking the cube to a corner or players falling to their death in the push/pull section so...nearly everything...
If they remove the content OP wants from the random queue or not won't really matter to me in the end since I only do it for the RAD and not for fun so I am willing to abandon any content if the group can't complete it for whatever reason and queue again for something different. For fun, I do content with my friends regardless of what that content is. But I do understand why OP wants that content removed.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
Nah, everyone would just pick the easiest content and it would pop a lot faster than current wait times in the random queue.
If that were true we'd never have issues with the random existing the in the first place.
Oh, wait, people were just queuing for the easiest, in general, and the devs made randoms so that OTHER content was run as well. Funny that.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Nah, everyone would just pick the easiest content and it would pop a lot faster than current wait times in the random queue.
Oh, wait, people were just queuing for the easiest, in general, and the devs made randoms so that OTHER content was run as well. Funny that.
People weren't queuing for the easiest, they were queuing for the fastest with the most rewards.... etos, you had a chance to drop up to 5 pieces of epic gear (3 from the bosses and 1 or 2 (if you were lucky from the chest)) on a 5 min run that you could salvage into ad, and that takes us back to dungeon rewards...
The rest of the dungeons weren't being played because the time invested/rewards ratio wasn't worth to run them, why run a 20 min GWD for 10-15k ad when you could run a 5 min etos for 15-20k?
Nah, everyone would just pick the easiest content and it would pop a lot faster than current wait times in the random queue.
If that were true we'd never have issues with the random existing the in the first place.
Oh, wait, people were just queuing for the easiest, in general, and the devs made randoms so that OTHER content was run as well. Funny that.
People will abandon content if the rewards don't justify the time it takes to complete it as the above poster Rev pointed out and this is especially true for CODG in the random queue or any random queued content where players refuse to read chat when advice is given so it doesn't matter if the devs made the random queue for other content to be run if those few players who don't read chat are still in the same party or raid.
Sure you could kick them and request reinforcements but in the case of CODG you have to start from the beginning and well....eehhh...
It would be a lot easier for everyone to just get rid of the random queue and let players decide which content they want to run for the daily RAD rewards. One for Epic Trial, one for Epic Dungeon and so on with the daily RAD reward tied to it from the random queue. If people only want to do the easiest content for their daily RAD I don't see a problem with this since you can only refine 100k AD per account anyways. When those players want to do something more challenging they will seek those dungeons and trials out on their own instead of suddenly being dropped in there through the random queue.
And again, we're back to people queuing for content and waiting through their entire play time because it just never pops.
Part of this is due to a huge majority of players run randoms with their guild/alliance. They fill the requirement and queue. Pure pug queue will cost you time depending on your queued class. DPS tend to have to wait the longest, but if you queue as healer or tank, it almost instantly pops.
There is also a reason for this, playing healer is boring and tedious with no reward for it. Playing a tank might be a little more enjoyable for some players but still a huge demand which causes a majority of players to go DPS instead so they can avoid the party aggro when things don't go smooth.
I don't know how many times, seriously it has been many... joining random trial as pug as dps just because and I get Demo and both healers in the group do nothing. They don't keep the tank alive who is tanking the boss during the first phase and so the tank dies and then the boss runs around killing everyone. They don't heal any of the dps fighting the spawns from the portals and so the first phase times out before gold is achieved.
Why am I complaining, its because I am not alone in these experiences which is why players would rather spend an hour looking in their alliance for members to join their random queues than pug and get players who either don't have any clue what they are doing or they simply don't care.
Have to disagree with your assumption on why more people don't play healer or tank for Random pugs. I don't find either of them boring, but if I que with my main dps, I can pull that group through the dungeon with a healer/tank/2 other dps combo that is not optimal. If I que with my healers or tanks, if I get grouped with 3 dps who are all really really bad, there is a far greater chance of that dungeon being a bust.
but if I que with my main dps, I can pull that group through the dungeon with a healer/tank/2 other dps combo that is not optimal. If I que with my healers or tanks, if I get grouped with 3 dps who are all really really bad, there is a far greater chance of that dungeon being a bust.
Agree. Practically all trials and many (epic) dungeons dont fail due to bad tank or healer, but because of not sufficient dps.
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unknowndramaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 115Arc User
Castle Ravenloft is curently broken....sunsword doesnt respwan at the camp when the party is wiped..30 penalty for free ..i dont understand why is there if is broken...
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
Have to disagree with your assumption on why more people don't play healer or tank for Random pugs. I don't find either of them boring, but if I que with my main dps, I can pull that group through the dungeon with a healer/tank/2 other dps combo that is not optimal. If I que with my healers or tanks, if I get grouped with 3 dps who are all really really bad, there is a far greater chance of that dungeon being a bust.
And again, every run has to be successful?
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
> @krumple01 said: > (Quote) > Part of this is due to a huge majority of players run randoms with their guild/alliance. They fill the requirement and queue. Pure pug queue will cost you time depending on your queued class. DPS tend to have to wait the longest, but if you queue as healer or tank, it almost instantly pops. > > There is also a reason for this, playing healer is boring and tedious with no reward for it. Playing a tank might be a little more enjoyable for some players but still a huge demand which causes a majority of players to go DPS instead so they can avoid the party aggro when things don't go smooth.
Just like how buffs worked in the previous older mods, healing is where the true end game is.
To properly heal, you should know where the dps positions themselves, to know this you need to learn how to play as dps. To properly heal you should know when the tank needs to be healed and to know this you need to learn how to play as a tank on boss mechanics and mob placements.
To properly tank, you should know how to keep aggro, and you get to have an idea of this when you play as dps and generate a lot of aggro with your big hits.
To properly dps is most basic and mundane of all these roles. If you cant properly do damage, i dont expect you to do any better on healing and tanking, especially if you made it as an alt to run in random queues. And you never get to know this because other people carry your weight for you because BIS people are WAY too overgeared for all the content.
All you really need in a random queue to succeed is a proper heals and dps. and the decency to talk with others properly as to how you would like them to do the same courtesy to you.
So what if youre BIS in everything? If your tone of speaking in chat is bossy and trying to order people, what makes you think theyll listen to you? Speak politely and friendly, and youll probably get a decent response.
I have never once encountered someone who answered rudely in a random/public queue when approached like a decent human being.
I’ve had one in private queue, but thats an exception not worth mentioning in this topic.
Have to disagree with your assumption on why more people don't play healer or tank for Random pugs. I don't find either of them boring, but if I que with my main dps, I can pull that group through the dungeon with a healer/tank/2 other dps combo that is not optimal. If I que with my healers or tanks, if I get grouped with 3 dps who are all really really bad, there is a far greater chance of that dungeon being a bust.
And again, every run has to be successful?
For a discussion about CR and CODG being unhealthy for RTQ and REDQ, yes, completion rating is relevant and 100% success is the goal for this part of the game.
Have to disagree with your assumption on why more people don't play healer or tank for Random pugs. I don't find either of them boring, but if I que with my main dps, I can pull that group through the dungeon with a healer/tank/2 other dps combo that is not optimal. If I que with my healers or tanks, if I get grouped with 3 dps who are all really really bad, there is a far greater chance of that dungeon being a bust.
And again, every run has to be successful?
For a discussion about CR and CODG being unhealthy for RTQ and REDQ, yes, completion rating is relevant and 100% success is the goal for this part of the game.
if the goal really was 100% completion rate they could just remove everything in the dungeon and just let you walk right to the end chest...
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
For a discussion about CR and CODG being unhealthy for RTQ and REDQ, yes, completion rating is relevant and 100% success is the goal for this part of the game.
I believe what was actually said was closer to 90%. Never 100%.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
I still cant work out the mechanics of the push/pull phase. I get it, sort of, but end up falling off one side or the other. That seems to happen to about 50% of a pug group, so I don't feel too guilty. Players tend to understand this is a bit tricky and are happy to pick up the dead.
However;
There are still players killing the skulls wrong occasionally. If they don't listen, I bail out. That's just stupid of them.
There are players slaughtering the Gelatinous Cubes in the middle of the platform. If they don't listen, I bail out. Again, its not hard to get this phase right.
Currently my success rate in PuGs is running at about 75%.
I have only failed once [in maybe 10 runs?] on the final Boss, as by then you can tell if its going to work out pretty much.
The issue with CoDG has always been players not listening or not paying attention to whats being said in the chat. either they can not understand or just dont care enough to listen. Sure most of the time the push and pull is what gets a group to fail but more then most of the time its players that just dont listen.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Have to disagree with your assumption on why more people don't play healer or tank for Random pugs. I don't find either of them boring, but if I que with my main dps, I can pull that group through the dungeon with a healer/tank/2 other dps combo that is not optimal. If I que with my healers or tanks, if I get grouped with 3 dps who are all really really bad, there is a far greater chance of that dungeon being a bust.
And again, every run has to be successful?
To be honest the real problem is when you queue and you always get CotDG and people leave immediately. You can't even start the trial and are just stuck there. It's not a matter of the trial being easy or difficult if you can't even start it. Ravenloft almost never pops so it's less of an issue. Even if people abandon it when you re-queue you usually get a different dungeon and you can go.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Random Queues were a bad idea from the start. Devs should have simply differentiated rewards depending on the average time needed to run the dungeon.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
Randoms were instituted so that the people direct queuing for content would, eventually, get their party filled so they could run.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Randoms were instituted so that the people direct queuing for content would, eventually, get their party filled so they could run.
That's what they say, but they never really worked.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
Works just fine. People don't waste their entire playtime waiting for their queue to pop.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
CoDG is definitely getting more doable in a PuG now.
I still cant figure the push/pull bit, I feel so close... then off the flipping edge!
Mostly KIlling the skulls correctly is happening.
Cubes are mostly killed in the corners.
I have succeeded the last five runs on the trot. Usually it takes between 12 and 15 minutes.
Its a learning curve and its FUN to teach and learn.
[Example - No one ever explained the mechanics to me for Drufi in FBI whnever I asked, or not so I could understand. I think I ran it less than ten times ever, initially just WAY too hard on the climb, the Turtle mechanic was boring and way too long to complete. All that standing around while the dude melts some ice was just tedious. NOW its just tedious.]
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Works just fine. People don't waste their entire playtime waiting for their queue to pop.
Queue takes forever anyway if you're a dps and when you start getting into CotDG it can take an hour or more to get through. And tying the fastest RAD sources to random queues was bad too.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
Find another source of your rAD?
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Comments
There is also a reason for this, playing healer is boring and tedious with no reward for it. Playing a tank might be a little more enjoyable for some players but still a huge demand which causes a majority of players to go DPS instead so they can avoid the party aggro when things don't go smooth.
I don't know how many times, seriously it has been many... joining random trial as pug as dps just because and I get Demo and both healers in the group do nothing. They don't keep the tank alive who is tanking the boss during the first phase and so the tank dies and then the boss runs around killing everyone. They don't heal any of the dps fighting the spawns from the portals and so the first phase times out before gold is achieved.
Why am I complaining, its because I am not alone in these experiences which is why players would rather spend an hour looking in their alliance for members to join their random queues than pug and get players who either don't have any clue what they are doing or they simply don't care.
For Demo its players opening too many portals so others just quit due to having a bad experience during the first phase. For Svardborg its players not breaking the ice. For CODG its aiming the skull, taking the cube to a corner or players falling to their death in the push/pull section so...nearly everything...
If they remove the content OP wants from the random queue or not won't really matter to me in the end since I only do it for the RAD and not for fun so I am willing to abandon any content if the group can't complete it for whatever reason and queue again for something different. For fun, I do content with my friends regardless of what that content is. But I do understand why OP wants that content removed.
Oh, wait, people were just queuing for the easiest, in general, and the devs made randoms so that OTHER content was run as well. Funny that.
The rest of the dungeons weren't being played because the time invested/rewards ratio wasn't worth to run them, why run a 20 min GWD for 10-15k ad when you could run a 5 min etos for 15-20k?
Sure you could kick them and request reinforcements but in the case of CODG you have to start from the beginning and well....eehhh...
> (Quote)
> Part of this is due to a huge majority of players run randoms with their guild/alliance. They fill the requirement and queue. Pure pug queue will cost you time depending on your queued class. DPS tend to have to wait the longest, but if you queue as healer or tank, it almost instantly pops.
>
> There is also a reason for this, playing healer is boring and tedious with no reward for it. Playing a tank might be a little more enjoyable for some players but still a huge demand which causes a majority of players to go DPS instead so they can avoid the party aggro when things don't go smooth.
Just like how buffs worked in the previous older mods, healing is where the true end game is.
To properly heal, you should know where the dps positions themselves, to know this you need to learn how to play as dps. To properly heal you should know when the tank needs to be healed and to know this you need to learn how to play as a tank on boss mechanics and mob placements.
To properly tank, you should know how to keep aggro, and you get to have an idea of this when you play as dps and generate a lot of aggro with your big hits.
To properly dps is most basic and mundane of all these roles. If you cant properly do damage, i dont expect you to do any better on healing and tanking, especially if you made it as an alt to run in random queues. And you never get to know this because other people carry your weight for you because BIS people are WAY too overgeared for all the content.
All you really need in a random queue to succeed is a proper heals and dps. and the decency to talk with others properly as to how you would like them to do the same courtesy to you.
So what if youre BIS in everything? If your tone of speaking in chat is bossy and trying to order people, what makes you think theyll listen to you? Speak politely and friendly, and youll probably get a decent response.
I have never once encountered someone who answered rudely in a random/public queue when approached like a decent human being.
I’ve had one in private queue, but thats an exception not worth mentioning in this topic.
I still cant work out the mechanics of the push/pull phase. I get it, sort of, but end up falling off one side or the other. That seems to happen to about 50% of a pug group, so I don't feel too guilty. Players tend to understand this is a bit tricky and are happy to pick up the dead.
However;
There are still players killing the skulls wrong occasionally. If they don't listen, I bail out. That's just stupid of them.
There are players slaughtering the Gelatinous Cubes in the middle of the platform. If they don't listen, I bail out. Again, its not hard to get this phase right.
Currently my success rate in PuGs is running at about 75%.
I have only failed once [in maybe 10 runs?] on the final Boss, as by then you can tell if its going to work out pretty much.
Sure most of the time the push and pull is what gets a group to fail but more then most of the time its players that just dont listen.
It's not a matter of the trial being easy or difficult if you can't even start it. Ravenloft almost never pops so it's less of an issue. Even if people abandon it when you re-queue you usually get a different dungeon and you can go.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I still cant figure the push/pull bit, I feel so close... then off the flipping edge!
Mostly KIlling the skulls correctly is happening.
Cubes are mostly killed in the corners.
I have succeeded the last five runs on the trot. Usually it takes between 12 and 15 minutes.
Its a learning curve and its FUN to teach and learn.
[Example - No one ever explained the mechanics to me for Drufi in FBI whnever I asked, or not so I could understand. I think I ran it less than ten times ever, initially just WAY too hard on the climb, the Turtle mechanic was boring and way too long to complete. All that standing around while the dude melts some ice was just tedious. NOW its just tedious.]
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80