I can see your point as to how they can learn the mechanics but... Are the veteran players required to complete these training runs and if so, will they have to pair with the new players? Because if its like the trials going on right now its not even worth trying to complete the training run as you'll just be paired with the new players and never finish some of them out.
Where does it say that every run has to succeed?
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
I can see your point as to how they can learn the mechanics but... Are the veteran players required to complete these training runs and if so, will they have to pair with the new players? Because if its like the trials going on right now its not even worth trying to complete the training run as you'll just be paired with the new players and never finish some of them out.
Where does it say that every run has to succeed?
What are you talking about, enjoying a game beyond rewards in a chest? Absurd.
Back in mod 15, I pugged CoDG and exhalted SH weapons on three toons. I did it on my support toons (OP tank, AADC, and MoF) to ensure I was not a carry and it was still pretty hard. CoDG now feels much easier.
So...fun story, happened ~10 hours ago, me and 5 of my guildies wanted to do rtq, so we didnt bother to fill because we knew our party was already overkill. We just queued up and we got cradle, the 4 randoms instantly left. We requested reinforcements, and literally (i'm using the word literally) everyone that joined instantly left, people didnt even want to afk on platform while we did it.
My theory is that those people haven't even tried cradle since m13, when it was actually hard.
So...fun story, happened ~10 hours ago, me and 5 of my guildies wanted to do rtq, so we didnt bother to fill because we knew our party was already overkill. We just queued up and we got cradle, the 4 randoms instantly left. We requested reinforcements, and literally (i'm using the word literally) everyone that joined instantly left, people didnt even want to afk on platform while we did it.
My theory is that those people haven't even tried cradle since m13, when it was actually hard.
It is hard NOW for random teams. Try solo queueing into it and see what happens. So if you're solo queueing into RTQ in order to get the RAD, who wants to waste their time in a trial where you probably won't finish?
The last time I solo queued into RTQ and got CODG, only four players were left on the platform by time the Acerak phase started. And this is with the changes to the push/pull.
What they really need to do is make two versions of every dungeon and trial.
Based on their road map it looks like they will try this part out with the next trial against Zariel, with the easier story mode coming out after the real deal.
Would be nice if the story mode version drops stuff to help gear people to fight the real deal as well.
So, done a couple of Cradle runs now. Here my two cents:
If you have good dps (and a group that is willing to listen), it is not too hard. I never did CODG before. In my first attempt I announced its first time for me. People explained the mechanics (I also read a guide before, but you need to see things in action) Died to the first push-pull (did not know when it starts) Survived the second push-pull Group still failed due to lack of dps at the final boss.
Second try we had a very bad group (dps-wise). Failed at the coils.
Third try had good dps (and decent heals). Was rather smooth, except for some initial difficulties in the skull phase (probably use of AoEs that messed up the attack direction). I survived all the push-pull phases (I think only two, because dps was fast)
Based on these runs, my assessment is:
Runs mostly fail due to lack of dps at the coils or the final boss (similar to tiamat, eDemo, SVA). Tanks are a convenience. Decent healers should do the job good enough, if the group has good dps.
Runs can also fail in the elevator phase - mostly because skulls are not killed from behind - cubes are killed in the middle The early failures can usually be avoided by giving proper instructions. Mostly people tend to listen, but there can be this one moron that does not listen and kills skulls / cubes regardless Good thing is, if people already struggle in the elevator, you can abandon.
What they really need to do is make two versions of every dungeon and trial. One is a training run that gives no reward and is required to unlock the random queue. It is quest driven and you must complete 2 to 3 of every dungeon first. Veterans can join these training dungeons if they want to help new players, but to prevent veteran players from speed running for rewards, the rewards don't exist in these training runs. They are meant to give new players exposure to the mechanics.
Once a player completes all the required runs, their random queues will be unlocked. This might not be a perfect system, it does help get all players on the same page. You will know they at least had to successfully run the dungeon prior to the random queue. This is so you won't see players trying to claim its their first time running it.
I like the idea of two versions.
However, your idea (no rewards, 2-3- completions of the entry-level version) will almost certainly not work and will only lead to new players leaving en masse. Why?
Currently we have wait times for the trial and the epic dungeon queues around 3-10 min (dps must wait longest). That is for *all players* queuing for these two queues.
What will the wait times be, when the new players will have to queue on their own? What percentage is there of new players (that have not done a specific trial) and all players currently queuing? 10% is probably a gross overestimation. More likely one digit percentages in the range 1-5%. This means wait times will increase 10-100 fold. The predictable result: Wait times of 60+ min, possibly several hours for dps.
Experienced players will not help the new players (with very few exceptions), if there are no rewards. EDIT: Also, as soon as experienced players notice, that they need to wait more than 10 times longer than for the normal queue, even the few exceptionally charitable experienced players, that would be willing to help under "normal" circumstances, will not go through this ordeal. Certainly not multiple times. Furthermore, most trials fail due to lack of dps. With no hdps almost every run with only new players will be a sure fail.
THIS suggestion will not work. It will keep the new players out indefinitely. In particular if you figure in, that in your system they are only eligible for the real random queue, if they have done the (no reward) entry-level versions for EVERY DUNGEON/TRIAL IN THE QUEUE.
No, like it or not, experienced players are *required* in every random queue run, and in particular in runs with new players. The system needs to be designed in such a way, that experienced player participation is actually encouraged for the entry-level runs. The rewards need to be less, but comparable to the rewards of the real thing (in the range 70-80%). The effective level of the mobs and bosses (hit points and damage dealt) needs to be less, so that the dungeon can be completed with entry-level dps (no hdps).
A better, certainly not perfect, way would be to have the entry-level random queues open for the experienced players as well, as an extra queue. The extra queue should give around 70-80% of the rewards of the "real" queue. Similar limitations should apply, such as subsequent runs per day give less rewards than the first run.
I’m a new player that underwent the painful dungeon learning process very recently, and understand both sides. I now crave mechanics-heavy fights, since I’ve actually reached the point where I can actually pull my own weight (in no small part due to personal cash I spent after researching, but that’s another topic for another day). The problem I see is that you can either have mechanics-driven dungeons or blind run-through-&-kill-everything-that-moves dungeons. You will always have player that don’t care enough to learn mechanics, don’t realize there ARE mechanics, or are unwilling to go through the sometimes-torturous process of finding a group (or person) that both knows and is willing to teach said mechanics or are just jerks.
I’ve spent the last 2 weeks virtually hamstrung on my random epic dungeon because when I queue in on my AR, it takes forever, and on my DC, I generally queue directly into Arcturia. End-game guildies openly refuse to do REDQ now because LOMM & CR might pop & scaling has made it almost impossible to get past the first boss in LOMM or last boss in CR. My fancy pants new gear I spent a week & a half PAINFULLY grinding does nothing to help me & I couldn’t heal Strahd last night, after 5 attempts (can complete LOMM, so not sure how this works). On top of that, you have the hack-&-slash ppl who will NEVER learn mechanics now thrown into dungeons where a single weak PUG not following standard dungeon mechanics forcing the entire party to wipe.
BEFORE mod 18 dropped (I play on console), there were already problems completing PUG Tiamat (which I consider to be the most forgiving RTQ). Now, I can rarely complete my REDQ, either.
On the flip side of the coin, both LOMM & CR were considered “difficult” by most players BEFORE they were rescaled and made (apparently?) more difficult. Because I WAS a new player, I already had a hard time having ANY opportunity to run these dungeons. NOBODY wanted to run CR, and it took me roughly 3 days each to put together runs. I only had the opportunity to run it 5 times (or fewer) on my main, and only 2 of those resulted in completions. I had roughly 6 LOMM completions on my main, before I swapped to playing with DC because of general inability to find a healer (now it appears I’ll have to build a pally to be able to both tank and heal, as there is now a lack of tanks and/or to run a certain watcher boss whose broken chains inexplicably won’t cleanse unless you have a pally).
I also find myself hamstrung by people who log after seeing a dungeon & the party can’t proceed unless everyone is there. I know there are blue screen problems, but you can’t vote anyone out after sitting there for 5 min while they’re fooling around well of dragons or somewhere else?
So, either way, I find myself at the same place. Either I couldn’t run the content because nobody wanted to run with an inexperienced player & completion wasn’t assured or now I have more ability to run the content but can’t complete it because I’m running with players more inexperienced than myself. Guildies seem to think reintroducing the Random Intermediate Dungeon Queue will fix these problems, but I still seem to feel like the queue system is being held hostage by poor PUGs, as well. Seems ppl with a history of leaving out of every dungeon might have some sort of discipline meted out, as we fellow players have NOTHING we can do except take one for the team & abandon so these jerks can’t be jerks. Maybe a personal “blocked player” list so that, after 1 bad experience we don’t have to put up with the same poor experience? I don’t know. There’s not one good solution for anything.
My personal feelings on the RTQ in a PUG are as follows:
eDemo = easiest, even with poor DPS it will succeed 99% of the time, my favorite to see pop. Svardborg = second easiest, so long as the ice is cleared and you have someone cleanse the rest is gravy, 80% success rate Taimat = getting harder, this whole trial depends on some cooperation, if you have a good team it is easy, 75% success rate CODG = I usually instant quit, far to much organization and a huge waste of time for 70% fail
The game could really use a training option. Even with major reduced rewards, it would still give others the ability to get good at them before attempting the actual trial.
> @mythdemeanour said: > The game could really use a training option. Even with major reduced rewards, it would still give others the ability to get good at them before attempting the actual trial.
Uhm it already exists and is called Private Queue.
> The game could really use a training option. Even with major reduced rewards, it would still give others the ability to get good at them before attempting the actual trial.
Uhm it already exists and is called Private Queue.
Umm 10 man private queue? I distinctly said in a PUG (pick up group) in the beginning of my post.. Something you forgot to quote in yours. Had I been referring to a private guild group or a group that was pre-made by a leader I would not have made the post.
why argue when there is an easy fix? make it back the way it was before... bonus ad on the first daily dungeon/epic dungeon/skirmish/trial and remove the most stupid idea ever (random q's), yeah some dungeons won't be played but who cares at least people won't be forced to play a dungeon they might not like or know
eDemo = easiest, even with poor DPS it will succeed 99% of the time, my favorite to see pop. Svardborg = second easiest, so long as the ice is cleared and you have someone cleanse the rest is gravy, 80% success rate Taimat = getting harder, this whole trial depends on some cooperation, if you have a good team it is easy, 75% success rate CODG = I usually instant quit, far to much organization and a huge waste of time for 70% fail
This is pretty much spot on and would tally with my experience, although I would have Tiamat at 80% success and Svardborg at 70% success rate
> @mythdemeanour said: > (Quote) > Umm 10 man private queue? I distinctly said in a PUG (pick up group) in the beginning of my post.. Something you forgot to quote in yours. Had I been referring to a private guild group or a group that was pre-made by a leader I would not have made the post.
the quote was for asking for a training option. This idea of wanting to run Random Queues which contains a lot of choices for which map you get in, with (somehow) different mechanics, and fully expecting to finish without knowing how things work over there, along with possibly 9 other people who can be as clueless (just an example) as you, is very very foolish.
to cut to the chase, Private Queue exists. you can enter a map and experience the mechanics and figure it out there.
I'm just pointing out that asking for a training option is just going to be a complete waste of resources when there exists a way for you to do something like that already.
Of course i know that because Random Queues are attached to making rough AD, people will still take that risk to run it and expect it to finish.. but really what most likely happens is that 9 other players are also thinking of this and thus, you get a random queue where no one knows what to do and thus the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> show ensues.
> Umm 10 man private queue? I distinctly said in a PUG (pick up group) in the beginning of my post.. Something you forgot to quote in yours. Had I been referring to a private guild group or a group that was pre-made by a leader I would not have made the post.
the quote was for asking for a training option. This idea of wanting to run Random Queues which contains a lot of choices for which map you get in, with (somehow) different mechanics, and fully expecting to finish without knowing how things work over there, along with possibly 9 other people who can be as clueless (just an example) as you, is very very foolish.
to cut to the chase, Private Queue exists. you can enter a map and experience the mechanics and figure it out there.
I'm just pointing out that asking for a training option is just going to be a complete waste of resources when there exists a way for you to do something like that already.
Of course i know that because Random Queues are attached to making rough AD, people will still take that risk to run it and expect it to finish.. but really what most likely happens is that 9 other players are also thinking of this and thus, you get a random queue where no one knows what to do and thus the HAMSTER show ensues.
The problem is, it NEEDs to be forced. The players who really need the training aren't going to volunteer to run private to learn the mechanics. It needs to be a requirement before they can even queue for random queues. Leaving it optional will solve nothing.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,092Arc User
And forcing it means fewer will actually do it at all.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
And forcing it means fewer will actually do it at all.
No. If it is quest bound they HAVE to run each dungeon and trial twice each or they can't qualify for random queue.
This way all players have at least experienced the dungeon prior to queuing for randoms and therefore not ruining random queues.
If fewer players queue then so what? They are forced to gain experience before allowed to ruin random queues.
If they want rough ad reward then they will run the requirement.
When PvP started to die, the Devs tried to force participation by tying one of the Stronghold upgrades to a PvP exclusive reward. It did not work, even though the structure provided one of the most powerful boosts in the game. And look at where PvP is today. Force will only work if they remove ALL other sources of AD generation from the game. They might as well cut their own throats.
The solution is simple. Incorporate the tricky dungeon mechanics into the associated campaign itself. This is what was done mostly successfully with the Cloaked Ascendancy campaign. Kabal's mechanics were completely known to everyone doing the mini-dungeon as a part of the campaign. Also with Nostura's mechanics, although less so. The only dungeon boss that was completely new in MSP was the second boss, and guess which one people complained about the most? That one. No one complained about Kabal's mechanics because everyone setting foot into that dungeon already experienced it ahead of time and so were already familiar with them.
The mechanics are still "forced" in a way, because players can't progress in the campaign without completing these mini-dungeons. There is a reward for completing these mini-dungeons, the campaign boons, separate from the rewards for the dungeon itself.
So for Mod 18, for example, one of the weekly quests could have been "Spirit of Zaphael" or something that allows players to experience the mechanics of the 2nd Infernal Citadel boss before trying the dungeon. Of course it would have to be easier since the weekly quests have to be solo-able, but at least everyone will know what to expect when facing that boss in Infernal Citadel.
And I agree with rev, get rid of the whole random queue concept entirely.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,092Arc User
why argue when there is an easy fix? make it back the way it was before... bonus ad on the first daily dungeon/epic dungeon/skirmish/trial and remove the most stupid idea ever (random q's), yeah some dungeons won't be played but who cares at least people won't be forced to play a dungeon they might not like or know
Because we go back to the days of people waiting, possibly forever, for the content they want to run to pop. Which was the reason for the introduction of the random queue.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
why argue when there is an easy fix? make it back the way it was before... bonus ad on the first daily dungeon/epic dungeon/skirmish/trial and remove the most stupid idea ever (random q's), yeah some dungeons won't be played but who cares at least people won't be forced to play a dungeon they might not like or know
Because we go back to the days of people waiting, possibly forever, for the content they want to run to pop. Which was the reason for the introduction of the random queue.
i know but its not like the q's are that random, its pretty much always the same stuff, at least for me it is... Malabogs/lomm/cn as dungeons with an fbi once a month, folly/master of the hunt as skirmish and for trials its always edemo with the occasional tiamat or cradle full of disconnected people...
If they want variety they could do what they did with cr not long ago and give extra ad (or something else) to run a certain the dungeon during a limited period of time.
For example: if you run etos next monday/tuesday you will get x ammount of ad or if you run msva next thursday/friday you will get x companion,mount or refinement stuff, in my opinion it would be better than random q's but what do i know
0
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,092Arc User
Because it is entirely possible someone is direct queuing for that content and you're a random that is filling in the party.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
And about teaching new players, its hard to teach someone who doesn't want to learn ... you can q for a throne of the dwarven gods and just watch when you tell people they are supposed to aim the hulks and not kill them, or when you tell them what to do in tiamat and they still do the wrong thing because : 1 - they don't understand you 2 - they don't look at the chat 3 - ignore what you say because they are too self centered 4 - are just mentally challenged (and yes i'm talking to those that die to the ice in tiamat at least 5 times in a row and still don't understand you are not supposed to step on it).
And for those who really want to learn, a lot of alliances have training runs...
It would be a lot easier for everyone to just get rid of the random queue and let players decide which content they want to run for the daily RAD rewards. One for Epic Trial, one for Epic Dungeon and so on with the daily RAD reward tied to it from the random queue. If people only want to do the easiest content for their daily RAD I don't see a problem with this since you can only refine 100k AD per account anyways. When those players want to do something more challenging they will seek those dungeons and trials out on their own instead of suddenly being dropped in there through the random queue.
Comments
The Random Ludicrous Dungeon Queue
My theory is that those people haven't even tried cradle since m13, when it was actually hard.
The last time I solo queued into RTQ and got CODG, only four players were left on the platform by time the Acerak phase started. And this is with the changes to the push/pull.
Would be nice if the story mode version drops stuff to help gear people to fight the real deal as well.
If you have good dps (and a group that is willing to listen), it is not too hard.
I never did CODG before. In my first attempt I announced its first time for me.
People explained the mechanics (I also read a guide before, but you need to see things in action)
Died to the first push-pull (did not know when it starts)
Survived the second push-pull
Group still failed due to lack of dps at the final boss.
Second try we had a very bad group (dps-wise). Failed at the coils.
Third try had good dps (and decent heals). Was rather smooth, except for some initial difficulties in the skull phase (probably use of AoEs that messed up the attack direction). I survived all the push-pull phases (I think only two, because dps was fast)
Based on these runs, my assessment is:
Runs mostly fail due to lack of dps at the coils or the final boss (similar to tiamat, eDemo, SVA).
Tanks are a convenience.
Decent healers should do the job good enough, if the group has good dps.
Runs can also fail in the elevator phase
- mostly because skulls are not killed from behind
- cubes are killed in the middle
The early failures can usually be avoided by giving proper instructions.
Mostly people tend to listen, but there can be this one moron that does not listen and kills skulls / cubes regardless
Good thing is, if people already struggle in the elevator, you can abandon.
However, your idea (no rewards, 2-3- completions of the entry-level version) will almost certainly not work and will only lead to new players leaving en masse. Why?
Currently we have wait times for the trial and the epic dungeon queues around 3-10 min (dps must wait longest).
That is for *all players* queuing for these two queues.
What will the wait times be, when the new players will have to queue on their own?
What percentage is there of new players (that have not done a specific trial) and all players currently queuing?
10% is probably a gross overestimation. More likely one digit percentages in the range 1-5%.
This means wait times will increase 10-100 fold.
The predictable result: Wait times of 60+ min, possibly several hours for dps.
Experienced players will not help the new players (with very few exceptions), if there are no rewards.
EDIT: Also, as soon as experienced players notice, that they need to wait more than 10 times longer than for the normal queue, even the few exceptionally charitable experienced players, that would be willing to help under "normal" circumstances, will not go through this ordeal. Certainly not multiple times.
Furthermore, most trials fail due to lack of dps. With no hdps almost every run with only new players will be a sure fail.
THIS suggestion will not work. It will keep the new players out indefinitely. In particular if you figure in, that in your system they are only eligible for the real random queue, if they have done the (no reward) entry-level versions for EVERY DUNGEON/TRIAL IN THE QUEUE.
No, like it or not, experienced players are *required* in every random queue run, and in particular in runs with new players.
The system needs to be designed in such a way, that experienced player participation is actually encouraged for the entry-level runs. The rewards need to be less, but comparable to the rewards of the real thing (in the range 70-80%). The effective level of the mobs and bosses (hit points and damage dealt) needs to be less, so that the dungeon can be completed with entry-level dps (no hdps).
A better, certainly not perfect, way would be to have the entry-level random queues open for the experienced players as well, as an extra queue. The extra queue should give around 70-80% of the rewards of the "real" queue. Similar limitations should apply, such as subsequent runs per day give less rewards than the first run.
I’ve spent the last 2 weeks virtually hamstrung on my random epic dungeon because when I queue in on my AR, it takes forever, and on my DC, I generally queue directly into Arcturia. End-game guildies openly refuse to do REDQ now because LOMM & CR might pop & scaling has made it almost impossible to get past the first boss in LOMM or last boss in CR. My fancy pants new gear I spent a week & a half PAINFULLY grinding does nothing to help me & I couldn’t heal Strahd last night, after 5 attempts (can complete LOMM, so not sure how this works). On top of that, you have the hack-&-slash ppl who will NEVER learn mechanics now thrown into dungeons where a single weak PUG not following standard dungeon mechanics forcing the entire party to wipe.
BEFORE mod 18 dropped (I play on console), there were already problems completing PUG Tiamat (which I consider to be the most forgiving RTQ). Now, I can rarely complete my REDQ, either.
On the flip side of the coin, both LOMM & CR were considered “difficult” by most players BEFORE they were rescaled and made (apparently?) more difficult. Because I WAS a new player, I already had a hard time having ANY opportunity to run these dungeons. NOBODY wanted to run CR, and it took me roughly 3 days each to put together runs. I only had the opportunity to run it 5 times (or fewer) on my main, and only 2 of those resulted in completions. I had roughly 6 LOMM completions on my main, before I swapped to playing with DC because of general inability to find a healer (now it appears I’ll have to build a pally to be able to both tank and heal, as there is now a lack of tanks and/or to run a certain watcher boss whose broken chains inexplicably won’t cleanse unless you have a pally).
I also find myself hamstrung by people who log after seeing a dungeon & the party can’t proceed unless everyone is there. I know there are blue screen problems, but you can’t vote anyone out after sitting there for 5 min while they’re fooling around well of dragons or somewhere else?
So, either way, I find myself at the same place. Either I couldn’t run the content because nobody wanted to run with an inexperienced player & completion wasn’t assured or now I have more ability to run the content but can’t complete it because I’m running with players more inexperienced than myself. Guildies seem to think reintroducing the Random Intermediate Dungeon Queue will fix these problems, but I still seem to feel like the queue system is being held hostage by poor PUGs, as well. Seems ppl with a history of leaving out of every dungeon might have some sort of discipline meted out, as we fellow players have NOTHING we can do except take one for the team & abandon so these jerks can’t be jerks. Maybe a personal “blocked player” list so that, after 1 bad experience we don’t have to put up with the same poor experience? I don’t know. There’s not one good solution for anything.
Thanks for the opportunity to vent, I guess.
eDemo = easiest, even with poor DPS it will succeed 99% of the time, my favorite to see pop.
Svardborg = second easiest, so long as the ice is cleared and you have someone cleanse the rest is gravy, 80% success rate
Taimat = getting harder, this whole trial depends on some cooperation, if you have a good team it is easy, 75% success rate
CODG = I usually instant quit, far to much organization and a huge waste of time for 70% fail
The game could really use a training option. Even with major reduced rewards, it would still give others the ability to get good at them before attempting the actual trial.
> The game could really use a training option. Even with major reduced rewards, it would still give others the ability to get good at them before attempting the actual trial.
Uhm it already exists and is called Private Queue.
> (Quote)
> Umm 10 man private queue? I distinctly said in a PUG (pick up group) in the beginning of my post.. Something you forgot to quote in yours. Had I been referring to a private guild group or a group that was pre-made by a leader I would not have made the post.
the quote was for asking for a training option. This idea of wanting to run Random Queues which contains a lot of choices for which map you get in, with (somehow) different mechanics, and fully expecting to finish without knowing how things work over there, along with possibly 9 other people who can be as clueless (just an example) as you, is very very foolish.
to cut to the chase, Private Queue exists. you can enter a map and experience the mechanics and figure it out there.
I'm just pointing out that asking for a training option is just going to be a complete waste of resources when there exists a way for you to do something like that already.
Of course i know that because Random Queues are attached to making rough AD, people will still take that risk to run it and expect it to finish.. but really what most likely happens is that 9 other players are also thinking of this and thus, you get a random queue where no one knows what to do and thus the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> show ensues.
This way all players have at least experienced the dungeon prior to queuing for randoms and therefore not ruining random queues.
If fewer players queue then so what? They are forced to gain experience before allowed to ruin random queues.
If they want rough ad reward then they will run the requirement.
The mechanics are still "forced" in a way, because players can't progress in the campaign without completing these mini-dungeons. There is a reward for completing these mini-dungeons, the campaign boons, separate from the rewards for the dungeon itself.
So for Mod 18, for example, one of the weekly quests could have been "Spirit of Zaphael" or something that allows players to experience the mechanics of the 2nd Infernal Citadel boss before trying the dungeon. Of course it would have to be easier since the weekly quests have to be solo-able, but at least everyone will know what to expect when facing that boss in Infernal Citadel.
And I agree with rev, get rid of the whole random queue concept entirely.
If they want variety they could do what they did with cr not long ago and give extra ad (or something else) to run a certain the dungeon during a limited period of time.
For example: if you run etos next monday/tuesday you will get x ammount of ad or if you run msva next thursday/friday you will get x companion,mount or refinement stuff, in my opinion it would be better than random q's but what do i know
1 - they don't understand you
2 - they don't look at the chat
3 - ignore what you say because they are too self centered
4 - are just mentally challenged (and yes i'm talking to those that die to the ice in tiamat at least 5 times in a row and still don't understand you are not supposed to step on it).
And for those who really want to learn, a lot of alliances have training runs...