reading through the comments and i am amazed to see how many is frustrated with the game and i am not alone, even I am struggling to motivate members in the guild, i agree, scaling in some aspects are required and needed to keep the challenges going but with mod 17 and 18 and especially the latest nerf on SW it is shocking to see how many people have and is now leaving the game, as someone in a R20 guild with everything basically maxed the amount of players now to a few months ago cannot be compared as there are only a few now playing, the latest neft has caused a massive amount and counting leaving the game, i get the idea the devs are felling like they god and we need to conform to them and not them listening to what we the players are saying, there is a massive favoritism to only specific classes in the game eg. tomm mainly pally healer, tr, and cw due to the massive damage boosts and eg, SW is left as an after thought in the game and the latest SW nerf was a spectacular game ender for a lot of players. Devs needs to be upfront are you busy trying to phase out the SW class and if so rather just do it and introduce the new replacement class. As a SW class i am also done, did my last dungeon yesterday and called it as a good 4-5 years as a SW but time to move to better games, as per the above how are the devs (which by the way we are the ones as players generating their salaries not the other way around) going to fix this issue, how do they expect us as active players leaving have to motivate guild and alliance members to stay. Do they actually read what is written in the forums or is the forums just for them to post new aspects and we need to accept it??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
It actually wasn't a nerf on Soul Sparks, it was a bug that surfaced when they made the change that they are working on fixing. Once fixed, it should be easier to accumulate Soul Sparks. At least, that is what I assume you are referring to.
If I do a RQ in a low level instance, I check item level which is a good indication on how new to the game people are, I then follow them through the dungeon but don't kill anything but the mobs left behind chasing them. I only help when it seems they are in trouble.
If I do a RQ in a low level instance, I check item level which is a good indication on how new to the game people are, I then follow them through the dungeon but don't kill anything but the mobs left behind chasing them. I only help when it seems they are in trouble.
I'd vote kick you for that. i'd vote kick anyone for that. do your part or gtfo is my take on it. you are useless to them doing that. you're making them run a man down when it sounds like they're already struggling. really not cool. you realize you're being carried by people that are already handicapped?
6
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,092Arc User
The only character I hang back on in RLD is with my healer. On the one hand, to see if I can manage to get through without inflicting much, if any, damage, and on the other, without taking any. My main aim is to make sure the party is healthy.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. I do pug dungeons, I do carry players actively outside of Randoms. Nobody asked me about scaling. Most people that are so vocal about the HYPOTHETICAL- new player experience- do not even pug Randoms. They simply do not know, nor they experience the measures they advocate. So why do you get to have a say in a matter that you do not participate? . I can not solo epic dungeons except 1. But I completed TIC as the main DPS multiple times. If you put me with low level of each role , we are done. In some instances I need at least 1-2 competent mates. How am I going to teach them anything if we all keep dying? Do you know what training conditions mean? A safe setup to make the mistakes not overpunishing. Scaling negates training conditions. . So the new,early midgame player wants to be as useful as the veteran? Who said that? Why am I getting so many replays at invites, then? Make your own party with players at your own level , see how long that wish will last. And where in real life that happens? . Remove scaling. It serves no use for training and it serves no use for progression. .
Agreed. I’ve allayed pug’d dungeons. Mainly on my DC, but also on my GF tank and OP. I would speed run content with friends (most have quit the game btw), but then public q because I enjoyed it as well. Scaling serves no purpose- I can guarantee new players don’t enjoy clunking along either.
I came here to ask what i believed to be probably a dumb question and I think i have found the answer here. I took a break (1 year) from NW after playing for years and I have found that instances are empty. I remember a time when you had to scroll past a huge list of instances just to find one with less players so you could meet up with friends. Now when i look at instances there like 2 or 3 with 6 persons or less sometimes (even in the newer campains) I que to do dungeon runs and its dead. All this at a time when there is double refinement event, but now i see why people are leaving.
This is disappointing to say the least, having people to help run dungeons, complete quests, do campains/heroic encounters was one of the things that was fun about this game. I may just leave for good myself being the fun part of the game is now a thing of the past.
Yah scaling in LOMM ins not nice, some of new player have GS abouve 24k but would strugle to beat the mimics before the scaling, aftr they really need help.
When someons ask me anout this i usually tell them what i did to all my alts, i got old gear like Chult Gloves and Hunt stuff with good bonus till i can be under 24k that way i can run LOMM knowing the stats.
Some old gear is pretty good like: The shirt with Charged buff from MEs, Ebonized Chest (mostly still bis) also MEs, If they can get "Hells of fury" from ravenloft hunt The gloves from Manticore Hunt in Omu The Gloves from Omu Seal Store (it Stack with Ebonized) this way they can have GS under 24k and still deal with the mimics...
If not they will needto work stats up to meet the stats after the scaling, AND build more power for LOMM The good bart is that if they can run LOMM scaled they probably can run anything from REDQ and RTQ no problems
The bad part is the feeling of being Nerfed, never nice... Lest hope the changes comming (see roadmap) work to make it feel better...
Now that i think about, showing the Roadmap link to them may give some hope, it gave me that hope...
If I do a RQ in a low level instance, I check item level which is a good indication on how new to the game people are, I then follow them through the dungeon but don't kill anything but the mobs left behind chasing them. I only help when it seems they are in trouble.
I'd vote kick you for that. i'd vote kick anyone for that. do your part or gtfo is my take on it. you are useless to them doing that. you're making them run a man down when it sounds like they're already struggling. really not cool. you realize you're being carried by people that are already handicapped?
I am sorry if I don't fit your requirement of participation, I feel it is better to help people through an instance than steamroll over it for them, Yes, you like people to do that for you on a low level alt as you have said above, but not everyone feels that way. I try and help people and not worry about the self-righteous SJWs out there complaining about carrying someone. People have posted they don't like steam rolling and let the low level people learn the game and how to play and then others like yourself don't like that, I guess you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
If I do a RQ in a low level instance, I check item level which is a good indication on how new to the game people are, I then follow them through the dungeon but don't kill anything but the mobs left behind chasing them. I only help when it seems they are in trouble.
I'd vote kick you for that. i'd vote kick anyone for that. do your part or gtfo is my take on it. you are useless to them doing that. you're making them run a man down when it sounds like they're already struggling. really not cool. you realize you're being carried by people that are already handicapped?
I am sorry if I don't fit your requirement of participation, I feel it is better to help people through an instance than steamroll over it for them, Yes, you like people to do that for you on a low level alt as you have said above, but not everyone feels that way. I try and help people and not worry about the self-righteous SJWs out there complaining about carrying someone. People have posted they don't like steam rolling and let the low level people learn the game and how to play and then others like yourself don't like that, I guess you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I have never had people complain about steamrolling anything in game, but I have seen people upset at others non participation (like every time). I have seen one or two people upset about it (steamrolling) in the forum. but they are by far the minority. it is ALWAYS better to do your part than to just do nothing. furthermore the thing that does seem to set people off when they are set off by steamrolling is the arrogance of the higher level in being annoyed verbally at the lower levels for not being faster or leaving bads behind that they then get killed by when they try to make thru. proper etiquette as far as I know is to leave nothing behind and keep your low levels alive. but to do your part in the killing.
If I do a RQ in a low level instance, I check item level which is a good indication on how new to the game people are, I then follow them through the dungeon but don't kill anything but the mobs left behind chasing them. I only help when it seems they are in trouble.
I'd vote kick you for that. i'd vote kick anyone for that. do your part or gtfo is my take on it. you are useless to them doing that. you're making them run a man down when it sounds like they're already struggling. really not cool. you realize you're being carried by people that are already handicapped?
I am sorry if I don't fit your requirement of participation, I feel it is better to help people through an instance than steamroll over it for them, Yes, you like people to do that for you on a low level alt as you have said above, but not everyone feels that way. I try and help people and not worry about the self-righteous SJWs out there complaining about carrying someone. People have posted they don't like steam rolling and let the low level people learn the game and how to play and then others like yourself don't like that, I guess you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I have never had people complain about steamrolling anything in game, but I have seen people upset at others non participation (like every time). I have seen one or two people upset about it (steamrolling) in the forum. but they are by far the minority. it is ALWAYS better to do your part than to just do nothing. furthermore the thing that does seem to set people off when they are set off by steamrolling is the arrogance of the higher level in being annoyed verbally at the lower levels for not being faster or leaving bads behind that they then get killed by when they try to make thru. proper etiquette as far as I know is to leave nothing behind and keep your low levels alive. but to do your part in the killing.
I agree that it is BS if a high level complains about a low level in these dungeons, If you queue up for these dungeons you should already know what you are possibly going to encounter and be patient. I just like to make sure that these low levels feel they are contributing something and watch over them just in case, not run ahead of them.
If I do a RQ in a low level instance, I check item level which is a good indication on how new to the game people are, I then follow them through the dungeon but don't kill anything but the mobs left behind chasing them. I only help when it seems they are in trouble.
I'd vote kick you for that. i'd vote kick anyone for that. do your part or gtfo is my take on it. you are useless to them doing that. you're making them run a man down when it sounds like they're already struggling. really not cool. you realize you're being carried by people that are already handicapped?
I am sorry if I don't fit your requirement of participation, I feel it is better to help people through an instance than steamroll over it for them, Yes, you like people to do that for you on a low level alt as you have said above, but not everyone feels that way. I try and help people and not worry about the self-righteous SJWs out there complaining about carrying someone. People have posted they don't like steam rolling and let the low level people learn the game and how to play and then others like yourself don't like that, I guess you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I have never had people complain about steamrolling anything in game, but I have seen people upset at others non participation (like every time). I have seen one or two people upset about it (steamrolling) in the forum. but they are by far the minority. it is ALWAYS better to do your part than to just do nothing. furthermore the thing that does seem to set people off when they are set off by steamrolling is the arrogance of the higher level in being annoyed verbally at the lower levels for not being faster or leaving bads behind that they then get killed by when they try to make thru. proper etiquette as far as I know is to leave nothing behind and keep your low levels alive. but to do your part in the killing.
I have. As an example: I was in a run once with another Lv70 and a newbie in Cloak Tower. The other Lv70 was steamrolling and the newbie used voice chat to complain about him going too fast and not leaving anything for the newbie to do. Needless to say, the Lv70 kept doing their thing despite that.
Like I said in above thread, that maybe they should create Master dungeons for all content and perhaps they should prohibit people who are vastly higher then the dungeon's requirement from running the non-master version. Like how each dungeon has a minimum IL perhaps they should also have a maximum as well. That way they wouldn't have to scale them either. If you are stoopid higher than the content you have no reason to run it anyway.
You can tell right away who is new or newer and I always stay with them and get through it. I mean what's the point of a group event if it's five individuals and no team?
But I can tell you things are bad in the random queues now. I took out my 24K+ tank today and couldn't get into a single random queue at any level. There seemed to be a lot of people playing (20+ PE instances) but queues just weren't popping even for a tank. Spooky times.
Instead of scaling I don't understand why they just don't offer master dungeons/trials of all content. For example, leave LOMM as it is and create a Master LOMM that is harder so people who may think the normal one is too easy can play it. And increase the AD drop rate in the Master to give them incentive to play it.
They could have unscaled and scaled versions, they already have the capability to do this with the k-team tech iirc. They just need to make so that the scaled version (ie hardcore mode) gives better rewards other than an "IOU". Not sure if this has been suggested before, but it sounds like a good solution to me. It would keep the difficulty of the "hardcore" version (ie scaled) at a consistent level, like forever.
I took a hiatus after Mod 16 for a bit and came back last month. Scaling has ruined alot of the game for me and MANY others I know.
I used to run so many different dungs/skirms/etc to use all the keys I made but not anymore. In our alliance chat you'd see the top to bottom dungeons run requests all the time but not anymore.
I rarely do the random q's now, sure the diamond bonus is decent but not worth the trouble. I can't tell you how many times I've picked the random trial q and waited forever only to get Tiamat, BUT I can tell you how many times I've completed Tiamat when this occurs......ZERO! I wish I was kidding but I'm not, every time it's a clusterfvk of a mess.
You have a Dungeon's & Dragons game yet many don't want to partake in the dungeons because of the scaling. It's truly sad
Get rid of the scaling or give the option to choose between normal & scaled.
Scaling in some games can be a improvement to the game. Scaling in other games can be a disappointment. Neverwinter sits in the disappointment area. Instead of scaling a dungeon perhaps a mentoring system should be in place. If a user wishes to mentor down to the stats of the dungeon they are then able to and if they decide not to then well that works to. This fixes all the issues and no scaling.
Wait until you see the scaling in mod 19. From what I've heard all the enemies in the whole game scale up to match you no matter where you are. That way your progression is meaningless everywhere instead of just in dungeons.
that would be a whole lot of unfun. I end up saying this a lot these days, but that would be the end of this game for me. I really don't get why the devs are so in love with scaling. it isn't fun at all.
AHWOO(cavdog) i do random,s all the time and i try to help the newbee,s, and yes it,s not worth it a.d wise but i enjoy helping people.it,s how i learned to play.
Wait until you see the scaling in mod 19. From what I've heard all the enemies in the whole game scale up to match you no matter where you are. That way your progression is meaningless everywhere instead of just in dungeons.
Wait until you see the scaling in mod 19. From what I've heard all the enemies in the whole game scale up to match you no matter where you are. That way your progression is meaningless everywhere instead of just in dungeons.
In this is true I'm done.
I would agree, but I have said that before (in M16) so I wouldn't bet on it anymore, but: If this is done correctly right from the start in a game, it is no issue. There are other ways to make it more rewarding for vets, or to feel like there is steady progression. Especially in a setting where skills are upgraded with time/lvling, and it often is not completely balanced in a way that makes you feel completely new-ish. I see some problems with running old content if this is true and they do not get the loot tables right (and, I mean, come on...) and regarding the (amount of) scaled content. If there is intention to scale everything, then I can imagine that there will be dungeons completely untouched unless the loot really really makes up for your lifetime lost. But NW is very very reliant on a different system, and imo it (NW) has already seen too much change, and scaling was not yet something people celebrated here... So, all in all, I hope this is not true. E. maybe later
Wait until you see the scaling in mod 19. From what I've heard all the enemies in the whole game scale up to match you no matter where you are. That way your progression is meaningless everywhere instead of just in dungeons.
In this is true I'm done.
I would agree, but I have said that before (in M16) so I wouldn't bet on it anymore, but: If this is done correctly right from the start in a game, it is no issue. There are other ways to make it more rewarding for vets, or to feel like there is steady progression. Especially in a setting where skills are upgraded with time/lvling, and it often is not completely balanced in a way that makes you feel completely new-ish. I see some problems with running old content if this is true and they do not get the loot tables right (and, I mean, come on...) and regarding the (amount of) scaled content. If there is intention to scale everything, then I can imagine that there will be dungeons completely untouched unless the loot really really makes up for your lifetime lost. But NW is very very reliant on a different system, and imo it (NW) has already seen too much change, and scaling was not yet something people celebrated here... So, all in all, I hope this is not true. E. maybe later
The issue is now, is that the ONLY thing IMO that NW has going for itself now is progression. If they take that away, if they make all content the same difficulty there is no motivation to play no matter what the loot is because the end sum will be zero. If my level 80 25K main has to fight as hard in Sharander as she does in Undermountain there is simply no motivation for me to get any loot because it doesn't matter. The might as well take away stats and IL and just give is new gear for appearance only. SMH
I can only think that maybe they want people to buy more campaign tokens and just not bother with the legacy stuff any more and making it just as difficult as newer content people will just stop playing it.
So, let me see if I can work out the logic of the past year, here -
they're forcing me to chase IL to run content, but not only have they made it more difficult to gain IL by diminishing the rewards, they're using scaling to limit the benefit of having the very IL they force me to reach.
...who comes up with this stuff?
At the beginning and end of whatever planning meetings they're having, they should be asking themselves and each other two questions: Does this makes sense? Does this make the game more fun?
Funnily enough, I was also thinking about having to really hit those redcaps again. This a big personal No-No for me, too. I remember part of the community talking about this as a big thing concerning accessibility, where ... let me see. here I THINK, only assuming, but: Being totally new player friendly and accessible is doing NW no good. It is supposed to be difficult reaching endgame level, not only time consuming and/or expensive (IRL). There HAS to be a little amount of discussion, reading, trying out to be involved. Also: New players have always had a chance to drop out. NW is not going to be everybodys piece of cake. Thats totally normal. Trying to grip onto those new players that might pay the first few days and hop off afterwards may theoretically seem to be sound (in creating revenue) but ultimately isn't: If there is no healthy vet/new player ratio, if there is no high ceiling, no needed progression, there will 1) not be much attracting to new players 2) making more vets leave again 3) it makes a game appear like a grasping harpy while you can wave the economy goodbye for good now. You need some shiny 248764165 IL with the newest maxed out HAMSTER sitting on his fat variety of legs to make people wanting to reach that. What will that vet say if it takes the newbie that just finished his first cloak tower (if they even run it anymore, insert Lomm) a HAMSTER and a few hours to get to where they are?
I was totally set off when I saw the catch up-chests in Barovia. I can totally see new players going to get their free stuff, and thats fine, but it really is the wrong direction, so to do that again in UM was mindblowing... The game is in my eyes supposed/directed to become easier, not just more accessible, and I don't like that. Thats progression of everybody that spent some of their energy on this game thrown out of the window, including some reworks of dungeons to make them more accessible, too.
So yeah, I agree. It is about progression, and not just about some loot tables being ancient, they were ancient before M16 too. When reading the first CDP, I was often thinking they have a different idea from what "fun" is in the game and how something that might not be the intended way, or went overboard, can be what makes a game fun instead of just another several years old MMO.
Comments
This is disappointing to say the least, having people to help run dungeons, complete quests, do campains/heroic encounters was one of the things that was fun about this game. I may just leave for good myself being the fun part of the game is now a thing of the past.
When someons ask me anout this i usually tell them what i did to all my alts, i got old gear like Chult Gloves and Hunt stuff with good bonus till i can be under 24k that way i can run LOMM knowing the stats.
Some old gear is pretty good like:
The shirt with Charged buff from MEs,
Ebonized Chest (mostly still bis) also MEs,
If they can get "Hells of fury" from ravenloft hunt
The gloves from Manticore Hunt in Omu
The Gloves from Omu Seal Store (it Stack with Ebonized)
this way they can have GS under 24k and still deal with the mimics...
If not they will needto work stats up to meet the stats after the scaling, AND build more power for LOMM
The good bart is that if they can run LOMM scaled they probably can run anything from REDQ and RTQ no problems
The bad part is the feeling of being Nerfed, never nice...
Lest hope the changes comming (see roadmap) work to make it feel better...
Now that i think about, showing the Roadmap link to them may give some hope, it gave me that hope...
I have never had people complain about steamrolling anything in game, but I have seen people upset at others non participation (like every time). I have seen one or two people upset about it (steamrolling) in the forum. but they are by far the minority. it is ALWAYS better to do your part than to just do nothing. furthermore the thing that does seem to set people off when they are set off by steamrolling is the arrogance of the higher level in being annoyed verbally at the lower levels for not being faster or leaving bads behind that they then get killed by when they try to make thru. proper etiquette as far as I know is to leave nothing behind and keep your low levels alive. but to do your part in the killing.
But I can tell you things are bad in the random queues now. I took out my 24K+ tank today and couldn't get into a single random queue at any level. There seemed to be a lot of people playing (20+ PE instances) but queues just weren't popping even for a tank. Spooky times.
I used to run so many different dungs/skirms/etc to use all the keys I made but not anymore. In our alliance chat you'd see the top to bottom dungeons run requests all the time but not anymore.
I rarely do the random q's now, sure the diamond bonus is decent but not worth the trouble. I can't tell you how many times I've picked the random trial q and waited forever only to get Tiamat, BUT I can tell you how many times I've completed Tiamat when this occurs......ZERO! I wish I was kidding but I'm not, every time it's a clusterfvk of a mess.
You have a Dungeon's & Dragons game yet many don't want to partake in the dungeons because of the scaling. It's truly sad
Get rid of the scaling or give the option to choose between normal & scaled.
If this is done correctly right from the start in a game, it is no issue. There are other ways to make it more rewarding for vets, or to feel like there is steady progression. Especially in a setting where skills are upgraded with time/lvling, and it often is not completely balanced in a way that makes you feel completely new-ish. I see some problems with running old content if this is true and they do not get the loot tables right (and, I mean, come on...) and regarding the (amount of) scaled content. If there is intention to scale everything, then I can imagine that there will be dungeons completely untouched unless the loot really really makes up for your lifetime lost.
But NW is very very reliant on a different system, and imo it (NW) has already seen too much change, and scaling was not yet something people celebrated here... So, all in all, I hope this is not true.
E. maybe later
I can only think that maybe they want people to buy more campaign tokens and just not bother with the legacy stuff any more and making it just as difficult as newer content people will just stop playing it.
they're forcing me to chase IL to run content,
but not only have they made it more difficult to gain IL by diminishing the rewards,
they're using scaling to limit the benefit of having the very IL they force me to reach.
...who comes up with this stuff?
At the beginning and end of whatever planning meetings they're having, they should be asking themselves and each other two questions:
Does this makes sense?
Does this make the game more fun?
I THINK, only assuming, but: Being totally new player friendly and accessible is doing NW no good. It is supposed to be difficult reaching endgame level, not only time consuming and/or expensive (IRL). There HAS to be a little amount of discussion, reading, trying out to be involved.
Also: New players have always had a chance to drop out. NW is not going to be everybodys piece of cake. Thats totally normal. Trying to grip onto those new players that might pay the first few days and hop off afterwards may theoretically seem to be sound (in creating revenue) but ultimately isn't: If there is no healthy vet/new player ratio, if there is no high ceiling, no needed progression, there will 1) not be much attracting to new players 2) making more vets leave again 3) it makes a game appear like a grasping harpy while you can wave the economy goodbye for good now.
You need some shiny 248764165 IL with the newest maxed out HAMSTER sitting on his fat variety of legs to make people wanting to reach that.
What will that vet say if it takes the newbie that just finished his first cloak tower (if they even run it anymore, insert Lomm) a HAMSTER and a few hours to get to where they are?
I was totally set off when I saw the catch up-chests in Barovia. I can totally see new players going to get their free stuff, and thats fine, but it really is the wrong direction, so to do that again in UM was mindblowing...
The game is in my eyes supposed/directed to become easier, not just more accessible, and I don't like that. Thats progression of everybody that spent some of their energy on this game thrown out of the window, including some reworks of dungeons to make them more accessible, too.
So yeah, I agree. It is about progression, and not just about some loot tables being ancient, they were ancient before M16 too.
When reading the first CDP, I was often thinking they have a different idea from what "fun" is in the game and how something that might not be the intended way, or went overboard, can be what makes a game fun instead of just another several years old MMO.