The Infernal Citadel iLvl needs raising seriously

genadine · February 2020

As it stands right now the ilvl for Infernal Citadel is 23K, that is a joke, no one at that level has a hope or prayer of completing, their stats will not be close to what is required so why make it 23K?

Yes it is a guide but the average Joe doesn't read what they really need and come this time next week when anyone who didnt buy the pack early will have access and this forum is going to be full of upset people.

They will say I have the ilvl the dungeon is too hard fix it.

So if you intend to keep it at it's current level then raise the entry limit to stop average Joe accessing it or prepare for the firestorm incoming.

arazith07 · February 2020

The closed Beta members were 23k-25k on average. Also the minimum item level is more for that is when someone can enter, that one or two member are at that item level, with the rest being able to do the heavy lifting as it were. Remember that BiS isn't anywhere near the max possible item level. Depending on if you are in a guild or not, you can be 23k and BiS.

krumple01 · February 2020

arazith07 said:
The closed Beta members were 23k-25k on average. Also the minimum item level is more for that is when someone can enter, that one or two member are at that item level, with the rest being able to do the heavy lifting as it were. Remember that BiS isn't anywhere near the max possible item level. Depending on if you are in a guild or not, you can be 23k and BiS.

Although your counter argument does make sense, you are deflating the original problem posed by the OP.

Having BiS build with lower item level is one thing but having HAMSTER gear and just managing to get 23k item level drastically separates these two types of players (characters).

It points out a flaw in the item level calculations that have been mentioned many times to the devs. Item level seems to have zero metric based on the actual character performance yet it is used as a metric to determine if a character is ready to face certain content.

Its like a child going to an amusement park can't ride any of the rides because they don't meet the height requirement but they climb onto the backs of another rider to get past the height marker. "See look, I'm tall enough!"

So you both have valid arguments and you both are actually right. The real solution isn't to raise the IL requirement but instead the system by which item level is calculated against stat for the class needs to be redone. Any other solution will be a bad fix and cause other problems. Because under performing characters is currently just a symptom of the actual problem.

b4t1b4t · February 2020

I said it once I say it before the real issue is that dungeons require Item level. They should require mini stats. I have hated item level but have used it only as a guide. I can also be sure that if a guy is 23K item level but has the right amount of stats he or she can do the dungeon to some degree smoothly. I feel item level isnt really the main issue but the issue is that people chase that item level and ignore the stats. Just my personal input on that.

kharkov58 · February 2020

I have said before, but here it is again. Minimum item level does not guarantee success. There is no reason we should expect to complete a dungeon with just minimum item lever toons.

arkai · February 2020

They hv to remove the item lev think and insert the cap 4 dps tank or healer thats was better ....my farm alt are 21k with junk item i found around but i never belive i put they in lomm have all random think just for run some dread ring lol... on my alt squad only my mains thats are studied for run dungeon whit stat cap can run content.

kors · February 2020

genadine#7803 said:
As it stands right now the ilvl for Infernal Citadel is 23K, that is a joke, no one at that level has a hope or prayer of completing, their stats will not be close to what is required so why make it 23K?

Yes it is a guide but the average Joe doesn't read what they really need and come this time next week when anyone who didnt buy the pack early will have access and this forum is going to be full of upset people.

They will say I have the ilvl the dungeon is too hard fix it.

So if you intend to keep it at it's current level then raise the entry limit to stop average Joe accessing it or prepare for the firestorm incoming.

The real problem is not the IL but the lack of the needed stats. With 23k IL you can have the required stats, the problem is present if the players don't care about the stats they need for that dungeon and care only about IL to entry. Many times I see player with 24/25/26k IL and at the same time so far with the cap needed to queue something. It should be improved/changed the way players can read and know the caps. Highlighted in the queue description or put in the in-game "instruction". For pc players it's in L window and it's not up to date.

callumf · February 2020

b4t1b4t said:
I said it once I say it before the real issue is that dungeons require Item level. They should require mini stats. I have hated item level but have used it only as a guide. I can also be sure that if a guy is 23K item level but has the right amount of stats he or she can do the dungeon to some degree smoothly. I feel item level isnt really the main issue but the issue is that people chase that item level and ignore the stats. Just my personal input on that.

Yerp.

And the new iL 1225 stuff doesn't seem better than the iL950/1000 stuff I already have to me [from what I have got via JUma] and also the new Seal stuff doesn't seem better either.

I could inflate my iL to nearly 26k, but I wouldn't give any more damage output from the stuff I have got so far.

So yeah - make it a STAT requirement - Power 150k etc etc

tchefi · February 2020

krumple01 said:

Its like a child going to an amusement park can't ride any of the rides because they don't meet the height requirement but they climb onto the backs of another rider to get past the height marker. "See look, I'm tall enough!"

What about the smartest and strongest dwarf alive ? I'm so sad he can't get in the rollercoaster

I strongly think some items should be updated with a bonus IL as a ponderation regarding their bonus feature, especially the +%, to reflect their "BiS" potential and not misleading players into "biggest IL" but inferior things.

b4t1b4t · February 2020

Item level is a cheap and easy way to handle a complex thing. Instead of wasting time and resources into setting a dungeon up the correct way vs actual min stat requirements the dev team just gos with what is already given in game which is item level. sure anyone can reach that item level required but the real question is can anyone having the item level required be able to fully complete the over all dungeon if their stats are not improved on?
Regardless of gear and item level the stats of any toon is what is the most important thing in the game. if one ignores those stats and chases that item level then that person will simply not have what is needed to do what ever dungeon he or she wishes to do or at least be able to fully carry their own weight in that dungeon.
When the dev team sees this and changes it maybe in a near future mod maybe not but still if they did then I see things running rather smooth.

bigdragon · February 2020

23k lv can t cap all stat for do this dg

pyrite · February 2020

b4t1b4t said:

When the dev team sees this and changes it maybe in a near future mod maybe not but still if they did then I see things running rather smooth.

I started playing the game in mod 17 and it only took me a few weeks to realise about the item level gear issue regarding content entry. I'm afraid devs know about this particular issue but don't want to or won't change how currently it is implemented in the game because they are clearly opposed to restrict/gate as little as possible contents to players as they have said multiple times on the forum.

The game caters or tries to cater a wide range of users, mainly focused on casual or very casual players who probably don't want to bother dealing with minimum stats and such for just ~2 hours a day game session. That's why I think devs try to force people to get on the idea of "high item level is all what you need to care about".
I mean, for instance lets have a look at the random queues. They work like requiring the lowest item level possible as entry barrier (epic dungeon queue posses a wide array of difficulty contents that varies from 13k item level up to 20k). Also, another easy example, the free lvl 70 undermountain blue gear reward chest from Undermountain intro quest which just entirely gives a boost by itself of around ~12k item level score if I'm not wrong.

And then there's the issue with scaling alongside with item level which makes the whole problem much worse.

franklin223 · February 2020

I totally agree with everyones points about the problem with a min ilvl on dungeons. All I want to add to this discussion is that, sometimes, failure should be an option for dungeon parties. It can't be all about perseverance and zerging until we win.

finmakin · February 2020

Monday I will be ready for the complain legion in zone chat, complete with popcorn and coke..
Little hint... Work on your stats instead of following the Ilevel hype and you will be fine in new dungeon.
Even with minimum Ilevel requirement.

aerhythia · February 2020

It wouldn't hurt to list at least the required stats to cap. I think it's enemy ratings plus 50k so it's easy to check but combat advantage and critical avoidance doesn't follow that rule of thumb. Even the enemy ratings plus 50k isn't mentioned anywhere ingame. And it's not like people don't care, see questions about critical severity cap which pop up every week or so. It's convoluted.

gonzakotwi · February 2020

Why do ppl still think ilvl Is a thing? I'll never know

b4t1b4t · February 2020

People fixate on Item Level because the game is still focused and fixated on item level to justify the way content is either easy or hard and to justify the right to enter that dungeon. People would stop fixated so much on item level if the dev team would actually remove that as a requirement.
Right now when you hit max level and think about dungeons or what ever you open that scary but tempting queue window only to see that it requires a item level

then because your new and no one told ya to focus on your stats you chase that item level. So this is why people still think item level is a thing still.

thefiresidecat · February 2020

arazith07 said:
The closed Beta members were 23k-25k on average. Also the minimum item level is more for that is when someone can enter, that one or two member are at that item level, with the rest being able to do the heavy lifting as it were. Remember that BiS isn't anywhere near the max possible item level. Depending on if you are in a guild or not, you can be 23k and BiS.

bis is closer to 24 or 25 k now. you can still be in pretty good shape at around 23k. but bis will probably be higher ilvl than that. my m17 wiz is bis other than lionheart and I'm at 24.8. with the change in arti set in mod 18 and some of the new gear I'll be closer to 26k I think.

thefiresidecat · February 2020

aerhythia#3255 said:
It wouldn't hurt to list at least the required stats to cap. I think it's enemy ratings plus 50k so it's easy to check but combat advantage and critical avoidance doesn't follow that rule of thumb. Even the enemy ratings plus 50k isn't mentioned anywhere ingame. And it's not like people don't care, see questions about critical severity cap which pop up every week or so. It's convoluted.

instead of stating enemy ratings it would be far more helpful if they just listed what your stats need to be for that dungeon to be effective. if it's too wordy for the que it should be in the campaign description of the dungeon

milehighxr · February 2020

thefiresidecat said:

arazith07 said:
The closed Beta members were 23k-25k on average. Also the minimum item level is more for that is when someone can enter, that one or two member are at that item level, with the rest being able to do the heavy lifting as it were. Remember that BiS isn't anywhere near the max possible item level. Depending on if you are in a guild or not, you can be 23k and BiS.
bis is closer to 24 or 25 k now. you can still be in pretty good shape at around 23k. but bis will probably be higher ilvl than that. my m17 wiz is bis other than lionheart and I'm at 24.8. with the change in arti set in mod 18 and some of the new gear I'll be closer to 26k I think.

And my pally in mod 17 on xbox is 25k il and does not have 150k power, nor does he have all the important stats capped to 85k. And getting combat advantage to 130k is a pipe dream IMHO. I just don't see how I'm gonna do it without dropping $200+ real cash into the game for alt leg mounts, or to upgrade/buy r15 runestones/enchants...

I agree that IL is misleading on a players ability to complete content adequately, but it is what the devs have decided is the "price of admission". I personally would like to see min IL for some content and some events raised, but that is mostly so that scaling doesn't affect me as bad. I lose something like 8-9k power when doing Hellpit at 25k il, and IMHO that isn't fair to me with all the time, effort, and coins I have put into my toon to get him to the level he is at now. And yes, I did try swapping to lower level gear to try and reduce the effect of scaling and it did nothing, still lost 8k power when doing Hellpit at 22k il...

xenocide · February 2020

I wish people would stop complaining about raising IL or making content easier. You should probably just grab a few friends for this one instead of trying to pug it

b4t1b4t · February 2020

I wish people would stop looking at their item level to justify how hard or easy content is to them. It really has nothing to do with anyones item level. Now their stats for their toon that is a different matter.
If one has the right stats content should be easy or hard depending.
Scaling however well should never been put into this game to start with.
Dungeons really should have been ranked up.

namelesshero347 · February 2020

People can get into IC already? Thought you had to finish the campaign first.

finmakin · February 2020

Hmmm, Perhaps a idea for Dev's
Get rid of the whole Ilevel requirements and grant players access to dungeons based on their actual stats....

mentinmindmaker · February 2020

namelesshero347 said:
People can get into IC already? Thought you had to finish the campaign first.

You can just buy a few of the campaign boxes on Zen store and you get the currency you need to complete campaign.

The IC drops have been on AH since more or less the first day of mod 18.

Someone probably paid for early access hoping to recover the investment by the usual excessively high prices on the drops at start of mod.

mentinmindmaker · February 2020

It is a Cryptic tradition to always set the entry IL to a zone 2-3k too low.

thefabricant · February 2020

You are not supposed to be able to cap the counter stats for IC. When I run it, I do not bother, even though I could. In fact at no point (on live, preview or on owlbear) have I been in a group where people actively tried to cap these, so my recommendation is, don't bother. If you want to cap something, cap arp. Leave the rest alone.

There was a developer post stating that the ratings aren't supposed to be capped before IC even went on preview.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1253221/ratings-difficulty-and-challenge/p1

callumf · February 2020

thefiresidecat said:

aerhythia#3255 said:
It wouldn't hurt to list at least the required stats to cap. I think it's enemy ratings plus 50k so it's easy to check but combat advantage and critical avoidance doesn't follow that rule of thumb. Even the enemy ratings plus 50k isn't mentioned anywhere ingame. And it's not like people don't care, see questions about critical severity cap which pop up every week or so. It's convoluted.
instead of stating enemy ratings it would be far more helpful if they just listed what your stats need to be for that dungeon to be effective. if it's too wordy for the que it should be in the campaign description of the dungeon

This x 1000000.

I was running with 120k Arm Pen for a while until I realised it made no difference.

Or even better still, get rid of stat caps. Lets have unkillable tanks with 150k defence at the cost of very little dps. And vice versa. Would lead to more interesting party formations maybe.

hustin1 · February 2020

mentinmindmaker said:
It is a Cryptic tradition to always set the entry IL to a zone 2-3k too low.

This. It has *always* been this way, even going way back to the old Gear Score days before mod 6. I've always told people to take whatever Cryptic lists and add 10-15%.

The Infernal Citadel iLvl needs raising seriously

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