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Rusted Iron Leggings - a bad design choice by the developers

marvyn#9793 marvyn Member Posts: 50 Arc User
I was already aware of the Rusted Iron Leggings which appeared in Mod 18, but now I've started encountering them being worn by players in random dungeons.


For the unaware, they give the player wearing them a 5% damage bonus, however the penalty is -25% incoming healing.

At first, I thought there was something off with my powers, post-Mod 18, as it was often taking two heals to restore players' health rather than just 1, but then when I inspected players, I spotted they were all wearing these boots.

This is a really bad design choice by the developers. Healers often get blamed when DPS die to avoidable damage, for allegedly not healing enough, and now you've introduced an item which reduces incoming healing by 25%. This simply introduces more strife to random groups...

You've given DPS players (and I don't know if tanks will wear them too) the ability to stifle the output of the healer in the group... I'm looking forward to the item that gives healers the following, "Your heals will be 5% stronger, but all DPS players will do 25% less damage"



I can outheal the 25% penalty in most of the content. But what exactly is a lower geared healer supposed to do to overcome this 25% handicap? And why should I have to work harder than I needed to two weeks ago?

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Comments

  • carloswartune#5709 carloswartune Member Posts: 239 Arc User

    Considering the location of this expansion, I consider these to be a completely appropriate choice of item to add to the game at this time. More firepower for less healing seems to be perfectly in line with the notion that we went to the first layer of hell to "rescue" the Vallenhas. To the healers, @jules#6770 is correct, if you find you are having difficulty healing through this in a situation, ask the DPS to change out the piece. They either will, or you should let them die for their idiocy and arrogance.

    Agreed. "Corrupted" items that have advantages paired with downsides are very interesting for more build variety, something that is lacking since M16 (of course, it would be better if different kinds of these items were available instead of just these boots and that armor that increases damage taken, but... "baby steps"). It specially fits the Hell theme for this module.

    I can outheal the 25% penalty in most of the content. But what exactly is a lower geared healer supposed to do to overcome this 25% handicap?

    Ask the DPS to change boots. If they don't, let them die. If they start bitching about it, vote kick them out. Healers are rare these days, weak DPSers who use these boots without appropriate defensive stats to survive are a dime a dozen.
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    there is also an incoming healing guild boon that offsets it by 15% that is easily toggled situationaly if your guild has it as a choice
    instead of increased hp defense or crit avoidance

    a player might have the boon as a option and not even know it ..even you reading this right now... lol yes you : D
  • tamardltamardl Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    I just think it's really funny when I am told that the "heals sucked" by someone running the same RTQ as my cleric, yet when I inspect them they are wearing those boots and all of their utility enchants are NOT the +inc healing ones. There are other ways to counter that debuff too that I cannot see on an inspection, hopefully they were using some of those?

    I figure they may realize why they are dying all the time at some point if they chose those boots but do nothing to up their inc heals. Until then their complaints about the heals just roll right off me and my guild gets a chuckle as they have no issues with my heals :)
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,629 Arc User

    Players will sacrifice 25% incoming healing to get 5% more damage, yet I still can't convince them to briefly enter the Pillar of Power to get 5% more damage for free :weary:

    Eldritch miasma smells funny...
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User

    I already saw in randoms 2 TANKS with the boots, not only DPS.
    The boots are bad design.
    First-because trade off items are a lazy way to replace choice in content.
    Second-because it is a mark of hostile DMing.
    But most importantly-
    Third =Because helps the rich while at the same time penalize the poor.
    It takes a bit of mastery to do both evil at the same time.

    If the boots were lock out after super heavy, grindy content- they would help only the rich, still bad but not as bad as giving them away to everybody.
    .

    Just because some people are to stupid to read an item doesnt mean its bad design. Everyone can choose to not use them. And why are u making a rich vs poor argument out of them? And what is "mark of hostile DMing"? And what other items in this game offer more interesting choices?
    Could it be that you are just looking for something to channel all your frustration and jealousy into?
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    Players will sacrifice 25% incoming healing to get 5% more damage, yet I still can't convince them to briefly enter the Pillar of Power to get 5% more damage for free :weary:

    Or avoid red circles so they won't need healing?

  • shugenshashugensha Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    Just let them die. Make them learn that they still NEED to use potions or stones and avoid the red areas. And its true, even linking the PoW so they can read it will give them 5% more dmg, most players wont stand on it lol
    The meta it's just a guideline. And guidelines are boring.

    Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
    Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour

  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,629 Arc User
    kalina311 said:

    there is also an incoming healing guild boon that offsets it by 15% that is easily toggled situationaly if your guild has it as a choice
    instead of increased hp defense or crit avoidance

    a player might have the boon as a option and not even know it ..even you reading this right now... lol yes you : D

    plus at least one companion +5% incoming healing bonus
  • xenocide#6119 xenocide Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    I disagree I think the boots are a great design. 5% damage boost is huge at the top level and very small at a lower level.

    I like how the boots add a bit more diversity to the game and make you have to actually think and decide, Do i want to really use this? Is this a dungeon where this will benefit my party or am i going to die in the cocoon during the arcturia fight because of this?

    TBH i feel like alot of people are wearing the new gear because the IL is higher and they think that means they are better.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,116 Arc User

    I already saw in randoms 2 TANKS with the boots, not only DPS.
    The boots are bad design.
    First-because trade off items are a lazy way to replace choice in content.
    Second-because it is a mark of hostile DMing.
    But most importantly-
    Third =Because helps the rich while at the same time penalize the poor.
    It takes a bit of mastery to do both evil at the same time.

    If the boots were lock out after super heavy, grindy content- they would help only the rich, still bad but not as bad as giving them away to everybody.
    .

    How it hurts the poor? tactical enchantment, rank 10-11 are cheap as hell
    I think it hurts the low IQs only.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User

    Tactical 10 is 150k. 3,2 incoming healing. Tactical 11 is near 400k. 3,7 incoming healing.
    First, they are not cheap for players that can make 100k a day.
    .
    Second, I can not make 100k a day. Unless lucky, MY randoms runs are too long and plenty fail.
    .
    Third, I run with level 9 radiants and 1 epic companion. Tacticals are MY last investment.
    .
    Forth , I do not have the Incoming Healing Guild boons to compensate , or if I have it-I will not have enough HP if I choose it. So it is a die=die choice.
    .
    Fifth, 25% penalty can not be compensate with tacticals 11.
    .
    Six, upgrading an incoming healing comp is expensive and I will lose power I need badly.
    .
    Seven and the most important I will choose the boots not out of stupidity but out of desperation -
    I can not
    kill the second mimic , so why not go kamikaze for the chance of getting to the reward chest?
    .
    The devs presented a choice for ME too - do you want a kamikaze run? I will answer- better than failed run.
    And those that take full advantage of the boots did not work more for the boots!
    They might have worked 4 years ago but the boots are not an All Activity Oscar but an item from a bag.
    .

    P.S. I had the boots since the 3 day as drop on preview and I have them on live. I just like the truth better than the boots.
    .

    let me fix that for you, how about you speak for yourself?

  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,116 Arc User

    Tactical 10 is 150k. 3,2 incoming healing. Tactical 11 is near 400k. 3,7 incoming healing.
    First, they are not cheap for players that can make 100k a day.
    .
    Second, poor players can not make 100k a day. Unless lucky, their randoms runs are too long and plenty fail.
    .
    Third, they run with level 9 radiants and 1 epic companion. Tacticals are their last investment.
    .
    Forth , they do not have the Incoming Healing Guild boons to compensate , or if they have it-they will not have enough HP if they choose it. So it is a die=die choice.
    .
    Fifth, 25% penalty can not be compensate with tacticals 11.
    .
    Six, upgrading an incoming healing comp is expensive and they will lose power they need badly.
    .
    Seven and the most important-plenty of them will choose the boots not out of stupidity but out of desperation - they can not
    kill the second mimic , so why not go kamikaze for the chance of getting to the reward chest?
    .
    The devs presented a choice for poor players too - do you want a kamikaze run? Plenty will answer- better than failed run.
    And those that take full advantage of the boots did not work more for the boots!
    They might have worked 4 years ago but the boots are not an All Activity Oscar but an item from a bag.
    .

    P.S. I had the boots since the 3 day as drop on preview and I have them on live. I just like the truth better than the boots.
    .

    A player who cant afford level 10 enchantments is doing very poor dmg, so a 5% will not make any difference.

    Not every item is for every character, if you cant compensate the 25% better not to use it. Is like players stacking power and % dmg item and they dont have armor pen capped... the item is a choice, is not mandatory.

    Some players couldnt use Demogorgon set and cap all the stats, so better if they use other set. Was demogorgon set bad for poor players?

    Or the ebonized armor, giving % of power... is bad for poor players isnt? because they get less power than using a 1200 IL armor.

    you can use this argument with lots of items in the game.

    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,461 Arc User
    edited February 2020

    But even if I was end game, I have the right to take a stance on a matter of principle .
    Calling poor players LOW IQ because they use THE SAME REWARD FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF WORK YOU DID, is ok, right?
    In this case is not mandatory to speak only about oneself ...
    .

    If a player sees another with the boots and rank 15 tacticals, and all they can come up with is "Herp derp I'm poor, me no have even rank 10 tacticals, but me must use boots, because me no think, me copy, like monkey" and "boots came easy so must use"

    That will be the definition of cognitive deficiency.

    The fact that the boots are easy to get doesn't mean that what allows their usage, like other incoming healing items and basic skill to stand out of red, and basic choice making capability of "Should I put those boots with this group", is not needed.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,461 Arc User
    All this bickering, I wonder where were all those people who so against the boots when everyone ran with high rank darks in utility slots because 50 more stats is sooo important..

    Yes? I still see the darks BiS recommendations, so where is the noise? About the poor healers and the deaths?

    Or where you all kicking healers that do not have 50% outgoing healing? I'm just wondering. Or tiamat set and lionheart. Because suddenly you need such high healing and healers do not over-heal twice the regular pleb DPS HP.

    It's like since the boots appeared all the healers became idiots, and all the players even more idiots.
    If a player is not capable of understanding the tradeoffs or communicate with the healer, it's on them, I didn't encounter such, but I hear this is what the kick button is for. Or better yet, taking a single polite PM and ask to swap.

    What happened? Easier to write HAMSTER on the forums than actually communicate in game? Yes I know, look at my post count, but still, it doesn't absolve from minimal attempt.






  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,461 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    I've put the work, I can compensate for the boots, I can wear boots.

    Player B, that can't for some reason, for example if they can't move from the red, they shouldn't wear the boots.

    If my friend is a great healer, and can't overheal the boots, I can wear the boots, If I go pug, I don't put the boots by default.

    Really not a rocket science, I don't have to have positive incoming healing. I do need to stay alive, without overburdening the healer.

    Repeating that something is bad, doesn't make it so. If a DM makes items that require decision making, risk, and choice, then I applaud them for at least making something beyond dull and boring.
    20 years ago I would loved to play a god on paper ( i think ) and smite everything, now team work, and interesting choices have more appeal (within reason).

    If someone can't wear the boots without dying or the healer crapping out on them, obviously they didn't put the work that allows them to wear the boots.

    Side note:
    Why everyone try to calculate "compensation to 0"? Like 0 is some magic number? Some will die with +24% others will live with -25%.
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