Incidentally I browsed through a few Youtube videos of groups doing the Strahd fight. I did not see a single one in which the group obeyed all of the mechanics of the final fight, particularly the candles mechanic. All of them ignored the candles. I would love to see an instructional or guide video of a competent team beating Strahd by actually following the mechanics. Telling people to "go watch a video to learn the mechanics" doesn't help if there aren't actually any videos out there of groups obeying the mechanics.
If by "ignoring the candle mechanics" you mean "staying in the same place and getting hit instead of running around to avoid the explosions" then PLEASE IGNORE THE MECHANIC. It's terrible to heal when people start running around, mostly because they will get it wrong some time. Not to mention overlapping mechanics that may happen at the same time. A decent amount of HP + Hallowed Ground or Astral Shield is more than enough to survive, even before they nerfed the explosion damage.
Well, okay. I agree that this is a good idea for semi-competent groups with at least a little bit of experience. But what would your advice be for new and struggling groups, especially for groups that have a new healer in the group?
If they were forced to run it before the random queue was unlocked then yes. They need to be forced to learn the mechanics. Most players just dont even bother doing research and expect to walk into a dungeon like CR and beat it. It's so comical. So yes, force them to run a CR 5 times with zero reward before they can start earning a reward. If they don't like it then they don't ever qualify for random queue. Everyone must do their time.
Mmmmhh. Questions : - how many "veteran" players (=knowledge of mechanics + adequate gear) do their queues with a full ally premade ? If i take the exemple of the ally my guild is part of (La Grande Hermine, probably at this date the most populated 100% french-speaking ally), between 18h and 23h (french hours), there is easily 30 "allymates only" parties taking off for the REQ each day.
- how many "veteran" players do their queue with a premade using /z in PE or any /custom "elite" in game channel, requiring exp or power or IL or whatever ?
- what are the consequences, for the new players and tiny guilds/ally, of "veteran" players playing their REQ within their "veteran"/ally circle ?
- keeping the 3 first questions in mind, how many "veterans" players would help new players to do CR x5 with no intersting reward for themselves ?
- if your answer is "very few", don't you think newplayers would be sort of "locked out", gathered in sort of a newplayers "ghetto" if they need to do CR x5 before unlocking any rewards ?
- do you think the ghettoed newplayers must go through the process that "pathfinder-players" had to walk when mod14 was in preview or right after the release in 2018 ?
- do you think, from a gaming perspective, it is a lovely idea to build a system that segregates new players, so seasonned players can stay even further away from them than nowdays ?
- do you think taking correspondence courses is equivalent to learning in a classroom with other students and a teacher ?
- Must you watch a tuto video before trying anything ?
- Have you ever tried a dungeon without any previous knowledge about it (learning live and experienced it first hand) ?
- Will you try the new mod16 dungeon as a "naive virgin", or have you already watched some "X" tuto coming from preview server ?
- Would there be anyone left taking some of his personnal time to make tuto videos if everyone have the "I don't waste my time for strangers/newplayers" mindset ?
- What a MMORP game represents for you ? Is it as life, time = money so you don't stop at pedestrian crossings when a pedestrian is only one feet engaged on the road ?
edit : trying to get rid of the "hamster" word censure... seems triple X (and the previous more acurate and direct word I tried to use) is censured when we speak about a video.
Well, okay. I agree that this is a good idea for semi-competent groups with at least a little bit of experience. But what would your advice be for new and struggling groups, especially for groups that have a new healer in the group?
It think staying in one place would be better still. A new healer will probably need more than one heal to restore HP of party members to full, and everybody staying together will make their life easier. Surviving the explosions should not be a problem now that they nerfed the damage, even for newer players. That said, learning the candle mechanic is still important so you know how to avoid damage in the case where Strahd takes your healer down for the "you friends have betrayed you" part.
My only concern with the "all stay together" strategy would be in a group with a new Warlock healer, as they might not have enough HP to survive the explosion + life bind's effect. In that case doing the mechanic might be the way to go, but everybody needs to be aware of things that may happen, such as: no safe (explosion-free) location, Strahd stunning someone and making impossible for them to avoid the explosion, explosions happening at the same time the X goes, successive explosions (where you need to move to avoid one explosion and move again immediately after that because the "safe location" will have an explosion 1 second after), and maybe others.
I disagree that it was a bad idea, otherwise new players won't learn the dungeons at all. What I feel they need to do however, is to add in a mechanics guide for the dungeons: making them a mandatory read before able to queue (just once). They also should have auto-translation for players in chat, thus making it possible TO COMMUNICATE with non-English speaking players. Then if they don't listen more might be apt to agree to a kick.
As it is now, if you don't agree with this, then best run only with your alliance.
If they were forced to run it before the random queue was unlocked then yes. They need to be forced to learn the mechanics. Most players just dont even bother doing research and expect to walk into a dungeon like CR and beat it. It's so comical. So yes, force them to run a CR 5 times with zero reward before they can start earning a reward. If they don't like it then they don't ever qualify for random queue. Everyone must do their time.
Mmmmhh. Questions : - how many "veteran" players (=knowledge of mechanics + adequate gear) do their queues with a full ally premade ? If i take the exemple of the ally my guild is part of (La Grande Hermine, probably at this date the most populated 100% french-speaking ally), between 18h and 23h (french hours), there is easily 30 "allymates only" parties taking off for the REQ each day.
- how many "veteran" players do their queue with a premade using /z in PE or any /custom "elite" in game channel, requiring exp or power or IL or whatever ?
- what are the consequences, for the new players and tiny guilds/ally, of "veteran" players playing their REQ within their "veteran"/ally circle ?
- keeping the 3 first questions in mind, how many "veterans" players would help new players to do CR x5 with no intersting reward for themselves ?
- if your answer is "very few", don't you think newplayers would be sort of "locked out", gathered in sort of a newplayers "ghetto" if they need to do CR x5 before unlocking any rewards ?
- do you think the ghettoed newplayers must go through the process that "pathfinder-players" had to walk when mod14 was in preview or right after the release in 2018 ?
- do you think, from a gaming perspective, it is a lovely idea to build a system that segregates new players, so seasonned players can stay even further away from them than nowdays ?
- do you think taking correspondence courses is equivalent to learning in a classroom with other students and a teacher ?
- Must you watch a tuto video before trying anything ?
- Have you ever tried a dungeon without any previous knowledge about it (learning live and experienced it first hand) ?
- Will you try the new mod16 dungeon as a "naive virgin", or have you already watched some "X" tuto coming from preview server ?
- Would there be anyone left taking some of his personnal time to make tuto videos if everyone have the "I don't waste my time for strangers/newplayers" mindset ?
- What a MMORP game represents for you ? Is it as life, time = money so you don't stop at pedestrian crossings when a pedestrian is only one feet engaged on the road ?
edit : trying to get rid of the "hamster" word censure... seems triple X (and the previous more acurate and direct word I tried to use) is censured when we speak about a video.
These are all quite legitimate questions, thank you for sharing. Which is yet another reason why my idea is such a brilliant one. Veteran players should be forced to help new and struggling players to learn the new content before they get random queue rewards. Not only will the new players get to learn the content, not only will there be a greater sense of community forged, but it will also cut down on the "ghettoization" and the self-segregation of players into these different subgroups which tend to remain exclusive and separate from the rest of the players.
1
tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
I disagree that it was a bad idea, otherwise new players won't learn the dungeons at all.
Yes let's gather people unstuffed who are not knowing the strats and throw them in a group with people mediumly stuffed and knowing the strat so they can fail and blame the litlle one who tagged for his RAD for not knowing the strats before kicking him.
Discuss about the state of the actual game. Everybody would love to have at least people trying their best to understand the strats, and at least being geared to be able to do the content, but's that not what it is happening right now.
2
tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
@chemjeff The game is made to separate people in groups, after 6 years a veteran who helped a lot of people learning strat don't want to help when making his daily RAD. There's a time and a place for this, but not in the random queue. He will just play with his group of friend, and get his RAD, and the random queue will still be full of people who have no clue of what they have to do because they are undergeared for the content, but the game told them they can queue so they queue.
I disagree that it was a bad idea, otherwise new players won't learn the dungeons at all.
Yes let's gather people unstuffed who are not knowing the strats and throw them in a group with people mediumly stuffed and knowing the strat so they can fail and blame the litlle one who tagged for his RAD for not knowing the strats before kicking him.
Discuss about the state of the actual game. Everybody would love to have at least people trying their best to understand the strats, and at least being geared to be able to do the content, but's that not what it is happening right now.
That's why they need to add in a mechanics guide and make it a mandatory read. As for gear, the only dungeon I've seen with problems is LoMM. They should have an easier version for REDQ while keeping the normal run the same (BUT FIX THE BUGS!).
Incidentally I browsed through a few Youtube videos of groups doing the Strahd fight. I did not see a single one in which the group obeyed all of the mechanics of the final fight, particularly the candles mechanic. All of them ignored the candles. I would love to see an instructional or guide video of a competent team beating Strahd by actually following the mechanics. Telling people to "go watch a video to learn the mechanics" doesn't help if there aren't actually any videos out there of groups obeying the mechanics.
If by "ignoring the candle mechanics" you mean "staying in the same place and getting hit instead of running around to avoid the explosions" then PLEASE IGNORE THE MECHANIC. It's terrible to heal when people start running around, mostly because they will get it wrong some time. Not to mention overlapping mechanics that may happen at the same time. A decent amount of HP + Hallowed Ground or Astral Shield is more than enough to survive, even before they nerfed the explosion damage.
If you have a known and coordinated group (big if, I admit), moving against the candles is not difficult, and is even actually quite entertaining. My regular CR group has developed callouts for the possible candle patterns, and there's only one tricky moment that takes a bit of practice: a two-pulse wave, first middle and then the outer ring, that happens almost at the same time (visually it *is* at the same time, but candle visuals/red circles are delayed against the actual detonation of the effect, which is why some people mistake them to be inescapable.)
granted, as a soulweaver who heals with a 40' radius from the middle of her group, rather than by aiming radials at a distance, healing a party as we dash about the map is quite second-nature for me. It's quite fun in any case.
If they were forced to run it before the random queue was unlocked then yes. They need to be forced to learn the mechanics. Most players just dont even bother doing research and expect to walk into a dungeon like CR and beat it. It's so comical. So yes, force them to run a CR 5 times with zero reward before they can start earning a reward. If they don't like it then they don't ever qualify for random queue. Everyone must do their time.
Mmmmhh. Questions : - how many "veteran" players (=knowledge of mechanics + adequate gear) do their queues with a full ally premade ? If i take the exemple of the ally my guild is part of (La Grande Hermine, probably at this date the most populated 100% french-speaking ally), between 18h and 23h (french hours), there is easily 30 "allymates only" parties taking off for the REQ each day.
- how many "veteran" players do their queue with a premade using /z in PE or any /custom "elite" in game channel, requiring exp or power or IL or whatever ?
- what are the consequences, for the new players and tiny guilds/ally, of "veteran" players playing their REQ within their "veteran"/ally circle ?
- keeping the 3 first questions in mind, how many "veterans" players would help new players to do CR x5 with no intersting reward for themselves ?
- if your answer is "very few", don't you think newplayers would be sort of "locked out", gathered in sort of a newplayers "ghetto" if they need to do CR x5 before unlocking any rewards ?
- do you think the ghettoed newplayers must go through the process that "pathfinder-players" had to walk when mod14 was in preview or right after the release in 2018 ?
- do you think, from a gaming perspective, it is a lovely idea to build a system that segregates new players, so seasonned players can stay even further away from them than nowdays ?
- do you think taking correspondence courses is equivalent to learning in a classroom with other students and a teacher ?
- Must you watch a tuto video before trying anything ?
- Have you ever tried a dungeon without any previous knowledge about it (learning live and experienced it first hand) ?
- Will you try the new mod16 dungeon as a "naive virgin", or have you already watched some "X" tuto coming from preview server ?
- Would there be anyone left taking some of his personnal time to make tuto videos if everyone have the "I don't waste my time for strangers/newplayers" mindset ?
- What a MMORP game represents for you ? Is it as life, time = money so you don't stop at pedestrian crossings when a pedestrian is only one feet engaged on the road ?
edit : trying to get rid of the "hamster" word censure... seems triple X (and the previous more acurate and direct word I tried to use) is censured when we speak about a video.
I am NOT saying veterans need to help at all. I am saying make two versions of the dungeon. One stripped down and fairly easy where you get a imitation. Veterans cant even queue into this. ONLY players who havent ran them can. This is so all new players are learning the mechanics together. This is why there is no reward, so veterans dont run it for an easy finish.
YOU have to run it 5 times like this to unlock it for Random Queue. All the dungeons should be designed this way. Two versions. If you never ran the dungeon before you are blocked behind this requirement until you have ran it.
6
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
That's why they need to add in a mechanics guide and make it a mandatory read.
Yeah, and how are they going to enforce that? Give a test at the end? It's an f'n game.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
1
tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
I disagree that it was a bad idea, otherwise new players won't learn the dungeons at all.
Yes let's gather people unstuffed who are not knowing the strats and throw them in a group with people mediumly stuffed and knowing the strat so they can fail and blame the litlle one who tagged for his RAD for not knowing the strats before kicking him.
Discuss about the state of the actual game. Everybody would love to have at least people trying their best to understand the strats, and at least being geared to be able to do the content, but's that not what it is happening right now.
That's why they need to add in a mechanics guide and make it a mandatory read. As for gear, the only dungeon I've seen with problems is LoMM. They should have an easier version for REDQ while keeping the normal run the same (BUT FIX THE BUGS!).
The topic is about LOMM and CODG, that's why it's a terrible idea, just sayin...
0
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
If they were forced to run it before the random queue was unlocked then yes. They need to be forced to learn the mechanics. Most players just dont even bother doing research and expect to walk into a dungeon like CR and beat it. It's so comical. So yes, force them to run a CR 5 times with zero reward before they can start earning a reward. If they don't like it then they don't ever qualify for random queue. Everyone must do their time.
Mmmmhh. Questions : - how many "veteran" players (=knowledge of mechanics + adequate gear) do their queues with a full ally premade ? If i take the exemple of the ally my guild is part of (La Grande Hermine, probably at this date the most populated 100% french-speaking ally), between 18h and 23h (french hours), there is easily 30 "allymates only" parties taking off for the REQ each day.
- how many "veteran" players do their queue with a premade using /z in PE or any /custom "elite" in game channel, requiring exp or power or IL or whatever ?
- what are the consequences, for the new players and tiny guilds/ally, of "veteran" players playing their REQ within their "veteran"/ally circle ?
- keeping the 3 first questions in mind, how many "veterans" players would help new players to do CR x5 with no intersting reward for themselves ?
- if your answer is "very few", don't you think newplayers would be sort of "locked out", gathered in sort of a newplayers "ghetto" if they need to do CR x5 before unlocking any rewards ?
- do you think the ghettoed newplayers must go through the process that "pathfinder-players" had to walk when mod14 was in preview or right after the release in 2018 ?
- do you think, from a gaming perspective, it is a lovely idea to build a system that segregates new players, so seasonned players can stay even further away from them than nowdays ?
- do you think taking correspondence courses is equivalent to learning in a classroom with other students and a teacher ?
- Must you watch a tuto video before trying anything ?
- Have you ever tried a dungeon without any previous knowledge about it (learning live and experienced it first hand) ?
- Will you try the new mod16 dungeon as a "naive virgin", or have you already watched some "X" tuto coming from preview server ?
- Would there be anyone left taking some of his personnal time to make tuto videos if everyone have the "I don't waste my time for strangers/newplayers" mindset ?
- What a MMORP game represents for you ? Is it as life, time = money so you don't stop at pedestrian crossings when a pedestrian is only one feet engaged on the road ?
edit : trying to get rid of the "hamster" word censure... seems triple X (and the previous more acurate and direct word I tried to use) is censured when we speak about a video.
These are all quite legitimate questions, thank you for sharing. Which is yet another reason why my idea is such a brilliant one. Veteran players should be forced to help new and struggling players to learn the new content before they get random queue rewards. Not only will the new players get to learn the content, not only will there be a greater sense of community forged, but it will also cut down on the "ghettoization" and the self-segregation of players into these different subgroups which tend to remain exclusive and separate from the rest of the players.
I can't tell if this is exaggerated cynicism or real suggestion.
Great sense of community forged by forcing one type of players onto others? Historically, in the general human history when that ended well? Or easier, in the game, this was done before, in the leveling random queue, how well that worked?
"ghettoization" and the self-segregation of players?
What is the criteria for this? Or the definition?
People always segregate into social groups by some defintion, some by game skill, some by language and culture, time zone, social compatibility and so on.
Lets take for example your guild, it has probably the most rigorous application process in NW (I'm not against it or for it, just using as example) which is done to create segregation. So is that valid? Or not valid?
Following that example, I'll point out the ages old argument, that there are masses of end-game capable guilds (lets define those by finishing CoDG/CR/LoMM) looking for players, but their criteria is not skill / gear based. I believe that the majority falls into that category.
Everyone hated random queues since they were introduced for all the reason people are listing here. It's nothing new. They said it was to "Give players more choice", but that's is such a BS statement, it took our choice away and gave it to a PRNG. All they wanted to stop was players queuing for Shores everyday to get there daily rad.
The real solution to people only queuing for one dungeon because it's easy is to make rewards in each dungeon meaningful and unique, on top of giving you your daily rad, then people really do have a choice to make.
If they were forced to run it before the random queue was unlocked then yes. They need to be forced to learn the mechanics. Most players just dont even bother doing research and expect to walk into a dungeon like CR and beat it. It's so comical. So yes, force them to run a CR 5 times with zero reward before they can start earning a reward. If they don't like it then they don't ever qualify for random queue. Everyone must do their time.
Mmmmhh. Questions : - how many "veteran" players (=knowledge of mechanics + adequate gear) do their queues with a full ally premade ? If i take the exemple of the ally my guild is part of (La Grande Hermine, probably at this date the most populated 100% french-speaking ally), between 18h and 23h (french hours), there is easily 30 "allymates only" parties taking off for the REQ each day.
- how many "veteran" players do their queue with a premade using /z in PE or any /custom "elite" in game channel, requiring exp or power or IL or whatever ?
- what are the consequences, for the new players and tiny guilds/ally, of "veteran" players playing their REQ within their "veteran"/ally circle ?
- keeping the 3 first questions in mind, how many "veterans" players would help new players to do CR x5 with no intersting reward for themselves ?
- if your answer is "very few", don't you think newplayers would be sort of "locked out", gathered in sort of a newplayers "ghetto" if they need to do CR x5 before unlocking any rewards ?
- do you think the ghettoed newplayers must go through the process that "pathfinder-players" had to walk when mod14 was in preview or right after the release in 2018 ?
- do you think, from a gaming perspective, it is a lovely idea to build a system that segregates new players, so seasonned players can stay even further away from them than nowdays ?
- do you think taking correspondence courses is equivalent to learning in a classroom with other students and a teacher ?
- Must you watch a tuto video before trying anything ?
- Have you ever tried a dungeon without any previous knowledge about it (learning live and experienced it first hand) ?
- Will you try the new mod16 dungeon as a "naive virgin", or have you already watched some "X" tuto coming from preview server ?
- Would there be anyone left taking some of his personnal time to make tuto videos if everyone have the "I don't waste my time for strangers/newplayers" mindset ?
- What a MMORP game represents for you ? Is it as life, time = money so you don't stop at pedestrian crossings when a pedestrian is only one feet engaged on the road ?
edit : trying to get rid of the "hamster" word censure... seems triple X (and the previous more acurate and direct word I tried to use) is censured when we speak about a video.
These are all quite legitimate questions, thank you for sharing. Which is yet another reason why my idea is such a brilliant one. Veteran players should be forced to help new and struggling players to learn the new content before they get random queue rewards. Not only will the new players get to learn the content, not only will there be a greater sense of community forged, but it will also cut down on the "ghettoization" and the self-segregation of players into these different subgroups which tend to remain exclusive and separate from the rest of the players.
Np, i like sharing as you can imagine :P
[disclaimer : no one here in this thread is specifically targetted by my words ! Even if i pick your words and quote, it's only as a starting point to voice my opinion. When I say "you" i'm talking to the "audience/public", not to someone specific I like you guys/girls, even if sometimes i don't agree with your points of vue :P ].
For me, the problem is not newplayers or ungeared players, or players who have no clue. The problem is not veterans / endgamers who don't want to bother carrying, explaining, giving to a stranger some of their "valuable" gamingtime because they don't want to hurt their "productivity" ( " " because my question about "what does a game represent for you" is not an innocent one, basically aren't we all wasting real life valuable productive hours playing a videogame ?)
For me, the core problem is "veterans"/"endgamers" complaining to be tagged along newplayers/undergeared players in random queues... but still dig themselves in random queue withtout also bothering gathering a selfsustainable (full or not) premade. If you are really an endgamer, or if you play NW for years, if you have spend time (and maybe money) to train and build your toon(s), don't you think you should have been able to... i don't know... built and constantly renew around yourself a circle of players so you would be able to premade everytime anytime ?
That's this point i fail to understand. You can have all what you need to avoid the "pain" of getting a bad group in the RQ, but you still tag alone ? The "only" thing required is being able to socialize... which seems in nowdays MMORPG to be a big big big issue.
I'm playing a MMORPG, it's implied for me that I should bond with other players (but maybe i'm too oldschool, and MMO now means playing with "kleenex"-players : i blow my nose once, i throw away in the trash). I would even say it's implied I should roleplay my character (=talk as if my rogue was the bard she used to be, making poems and songs about the journey her group had in VT years ago, and singing it to the new group with whom she's trying to meet and defeat Ras Nsi. Would you kick me out of the dungeon if I make you wait 5 minutes at the last campfire as i'm /p sharing my astonishing talent ? )....
I joined a tiny guild level 4 in january 2017 (less than 15 active players, and none were engame), and some weeks later, as I was hooked, my playtime volume rose around ~4-5h /day on average (I tend to see that amount as a "hardcore" minimal playtime). The philosophy of our guild was and will always be "come and play as you are, as long as you don't get on anyone's neck". I gradually took more and more responsabilities in my guild : recruitment, organization, animations, events, etc (leadership at the end) to help vitalizing it. We joined a not so big ally (all guilds below level 10). There were ups and downs, but overall the ally managed to remain stable and overall in an ever growing process. I helped building my guild (up to the level 20, 3 days left today before the upgrade is finished ^^), as a lot of other guildmembers even though participation was and will always remain facultative. I took responsabilities in the ally (leading dragon runs, dungeon rush-runs, dungeon tutorial runs, events with giveaways as rewards, etc, though I do less than what I was used to before mod16). I met a lot of nice "external" players (mostly during dungeons I had queued without premade). Yeah, all of that took ia toll on the progression of my toons (in fact not so, because i'm also quite efficient at building my account, on the AH and "exploiting" the sales in Zen market)
Result is, without really forcing myself along this 3 years road, i have drawn a wide circle around me, and in a finger snap i have twice the required amount of players ready to jump in anything with me (even when it's for running LoMM with one of my not really well geared reroll).
I'm probably on one extremity of the spectrum (the "ultra-social" kind), but honestly is it so hard to find a "usual party" so you can do your daily RQ mostly with people you know are reliable ? Is it necessary to cast out new/undergeared/unskilled players so you can comfortably run "kleenex-players" without even the politeness to say hello/thx (because hey, typing is wasting time) ?
If you never try to uplift anyone to your level (or give up to do so), and altruistly help, I understand how hard it can be. Even if it's hard, and time to time i'm not in the mood, I try to keep the altruist stance: sometimes (most of the time) it is in vain and a waste of my time, but once in a while I meet a good one, have plenty of fun with him, and I hang up because of that. At the end I will always have enough people siding with me whenever i need if i'm in a day i'm not in the mood to give my all to strangers.
At the end, we are playing with people. Being kind, patient, forgiving and helpful isn't it a thing we can consider to be the human way to go ?
For me, the core problem is "veterans"/"endgamers" complaining to be tagged along newplayers/undergeared players in random queues... but still dig themselves in random queue withtout also bothering gathering a selfsustainable (full or not) premade. If you are really an endgamer, or if you play NW for years, if you have spend time (and maybe money) to train and build your toon(s), don't you think you should have been able to... i don't know... built and constantly renew around yourself a circle of players so you would be able to premade everytime anytime ?
No what you are doing here is skirting the issue. The issue is new players have a responsibility to either tell other players they are new, which they rarely ever do or they should do their research so they at least know something. Failing to do both of those they are basically telling the rest of the party to fnckoff..
It has nothing to do with having a guild or alliance that are willing to run content with you. These players need to do something. Because what happens when the entire party is full of all new players? You want to bring up the stupid excuse that they should be running the content with an alliance?
The only problem i see is that doing LoMM or CR with a full PUG group does not award enough AD for the time and effort spent. Otherwise, I love their inclusion. When I spend an hour taking a group of undergeared players through LoMM instead of a 15 minute dungeon run thats easy... it would be nice to get paid.
I think people should have completed the dungeons at least 5 times to enter the random queue. So if someone didnt complete CR or LoMM that number of times he doesnt qualify for ReDQ and the same with trials.
I understand that people want to start the game and in 15 days be in end game but that shouldnt be like this. This game need to implement some kind of dungeon progression
SO, running CR 5 times. For 0 AD. Yeah, that queue is gonna be poppin' ...
Yes, why not? take it as a requisite, like item level is but is harder to bypass than IL.
So your only concern is the queue to pop? even if you stay 2 hours in a dungeon for a fail? Ok..
DO only successful completions count towards the 5 runs? how many wipes, with zero rewards mind, do you think players will swallow?
The best thing would be to remove random que, i dont expect that someone that is new and does his first random que, reads up on all the dungeons in there, that is just absurd.
If we remove random que, ppl will run Specific dungeons, and the chance that they inform themselfs on a single dungeon is probably alot higher. And, since the que times would be longer, ppl will be incentivised to search for a group via zone chat or lfg, which secures that they can communicate, unlike alot of ppl in random que that apparently cant even say "hi"
The issue is new players have a responsibility to either tell other players they are new, which they rarely ever do or they should do their research so they at least know something. Failing to do both of those they are basically telling the rest of the party to fnckoff..
Mmmh my answer to that is already in my previous post
The "only" thing required is being able to socialize... which seems in nowdays MMORPG to be a big big big issue.
You can see that as a general statement, and even if I was speaking about "veterans"/"endgamers, this can also fit well when speaking about "newplayers" : failing in communication skills (which is quite impressive considering how the communication tools have evolved during the 30 last years).
Which one is responsible of this situation ?
I don't like that, but I will take a professionnal situation to make a parallel.
A new collaborater is hired in my team and this decision was taken by my boss. The new guy is young, has no diploma to fit as perfectly as we wished in the one vacant job my team has, but due to the lack of graduate people available on the market we get what we can and pay really a high salary. He also has not any professionnal experience yet. Our boss doesn't give him any kind of internal formation time. The new guy is not the talkative kind. My team didn't really welcomed him because he didn't introduced himself. So we didn't introduce oursleves. He doesn't really talk to us, we don't really talk to him. Moreover he is the only [insert any religion/ethnotype/nationality] in the team. No one of us would ever make a step and ask "do you need a hand/an advice ?" After a while, one day, he breaks one of our machine (let's say it's CNC machining, his job was CAM, creating cutting courses in voluminous pieces of steel for the mold industry, and he failed to see there was collision warnings between the spindle and the piece. 1000kg steel piece more or less wasted and 25k€ to repair the 5axis-machine) Our mindset becomes : "this guy is HAMSTER, not efficient at all and completely incompetent". He get fired. And finally, i tell to my boss : never give us again someone with no experience in this job.
Who do you think have make a mistake in this story ? The question is rhetorical.
But in my opinion, the ones who made the biggest mistake(s) are me and my team.
Because what happens when the entire party is full of all new players?
I don't know. Taking my exemple, I happened to be alot in "full unexperienced players" parties (quite obvious as I started NWO during mod10.5 with my brother and then i was queueing with him and another friend who started the game some days after us) : wipes and fail again and again. On a side note, i absolutely loved trolling the raging "endgamers" who prefered their first words in chat to be insults/mockeries/anger rather than "hello, do you want me to explain mechanics and give quick advices" ? Any kickvote against any of us was just denied as we were 3 :P
We were then endgame by mod12. Here we go again in mod13, as newplayers (but not so) we discovered CoDG by ourselves. And in mod14. And in mod16. So many deaths, wipes, tries, retries.
But as Churchill once said "Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm".
I think a lot of stuff related to this is going to come up in the rewards CDP.
But what if the Random Queue worked more like the beginners version of the Levelling Dungeon Queue?
You unlock Dungeons that get added to your own version of the Standard Random Dungeon Queue.
But of course, why would you? If you can get your daily bog standard rAD from ETOS, why the hell would you want to throw CR into the mix?
How about if your bonus rAD was based on how many Dungeons you had unlocked and there was a secondary, (tertiary I suppose if you count RP/XP) bonus to your first daily RQ? The value of such a bonus would have to be balanced between being valuable enough to make people want to add more Dungeons to their list, and not being too valuable as to cause imbalance in the game.
To add a Dungeon to your list, rather than just grinding sufficient campaign currency and "unlocking" it, (or even worse, having an account wide unlock) you need to run a tutorial version of it, complete it, and repeat that process several times over a number of different days (no more grindy than the process of having to unlock a dungeon via a campaign, in some situations FAR quicker and easier than completing a legacy campaign). Once you have sufficiently shown your proficiency, you get to add it to the list.
Anyone who has completed the dungeon prior to this system being implemented is grandfathered in automatically.
You would not need to undertake this process to enter through a pre-made non Random Queue.
People seem to forget that long ago, "complex" dungeons used to give you battle tactics when you wiped. Also people seem to not understand the idea that not absolutely every time you queue for content you have to succeed.
You don't need to watch a video on CR, just go in the fight and wipe, game then gives you the mechanics.
Everyone hated random queues since they were introduced for all the reason people are listing here. It's nothing new. They said it was to "Give players more choice", but that's is such a BS statement, it took our choice away and gave it to a PRNG. All they wanted to stop was players queuing for Shores everyday to get there daily rad.
The real solution to people only queuing for one dungeon because it's easy is to make rewards in each dungeon meaningful and unique, on top of giving you your daily rad, then people really do have a choice to make.
Disagree. There are some people that enjoy the randoms. So that alone ends the "everyone hated" argument. More people queued private on the leveling dungeons to speed run them and avoid bots and explorers.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Random queues are extremely popular. Arguing to eliminate them makes no sense to me. If "you" don't like them, then you probably don't use them... so its a non-impact change for you... that affects other players negatively.
Personally... I'd like to see all dungeons on a single random queue. How would this work?
A different IL level req for each. The same basic daily rAD award for each. Each dugneon would award a weekly bonus the first time a player runs it... tailored to dugneon difficulty and time spent.
Example: You would gain 10,000 rAD per dungeon up to 3 a day. (random bonus) You would queue into the highest iL level dungeon you qualify for that is ready to launch. Each specific dungeon would award "1" weekly bonus per account. LoMM might give 50,000 rAD, while a leveling dungeon might only give 5,000 rAD. This mechanic would encourage players to start queuing for dungeons that they have not run recently.. in order to hit their rAD for the day. This brings variety... and balanced rewards.
Random queues are extremely popular because they make it simple to cap. I have heard people argue over their favorite RTQ, and the only argument was either "You can't pug XY with so many 'new players'" (inserted nicer term) or "XY has more chests/more RAD in chest". Nobody I know is RQing because they like to be surprised by the general variety NW has to offer, but that is probably due to my limited people skills and my very limited love of RQs, and you know, people like to talk to people with a similar view of things...
In general, many people are running dungeons not for the "fun" purpose but for grinding, and that is fine, that's the game. But RQs just make it easier. On 2x you farm codg, everytime else you cap with RQs.
I look forward to read the next CDP, because I'm sure many many people already have suggestions on dungeon loot / random bonus, and any changes to only running RTQ + 1 REDG is something I would look forward to. Loot in so many dungeons is so LAME it's no wonder that new people try their hardest to avoid anything older than tong.
On a side note, i absolutely loved trolling the raging "endgamers" who prefered their first words in chat to be insults/mockeries/anger rather than "hello, do you want me to explain mechanics and give quick advices" ? Any kickvote against any of us was just denied as we were 3
Well I see new players who enter a dungeon for their first time and not saying anything to anyone the exact same as a veteran who uses insults/mockeries/anger rather than "hello, do you want me to explain mechanics and give quick advices"?
A brand new player in a dungeon should be saying, "Hi, this is my first time in here, but I have seen videos and read a few guides on the dungeon and I think I understand most of it, but if there is anything else I need to know or do differently please let me know."
Anything other than that above statement, it is EXACTLY the same as a veteran being abusive to a new player. Because a new player who doesn't take advantage of the millions of sources of information on the game content is basically saying "FU IDK!" to the rest the party.
It should NOT be the responsibility of veteran players to train or teach new players how to run content. If a veteran wants to that is up to them, but it shouldn't be an obligation.
On a side note, i absolutely loved trolling the raging "endgamers" who prefered their first words in chat to be insults/mockeries/anger rather than "hello, do you want me to explain mechanics and give quick advices" ? Any kickvote against any of us was just denied as we were 3
Well I see new players who enter a dungeon for their first time and not saying anything to anyone the exact same as a veteran who uses insults/mockeries/anger rather than "hello, do you want me to explain mechanics and give quick advices"?
A brand new player in a dungeon should be saying, "Hi, this is my first time in here, but I have seen videos and read a few guides on the dungeon and I think I understand most of it, but if there is anything else I need to know or do differently please let me know."
Anything other than that above statement, it is EXACTLY the same as a veteran being abusive to a new player. Because a new player who doesn't take advantage of the millions of sources of information on the game content is basically saying "FU IDK!" to the rest the party.
It should NOT be the responsibility of veteran players to train or teach new players how to run content. If a veteran wants to that is up to them, but it shouldn't be an obligation.
Both are true in my opinion. (That to say, I think I remember being in an alliance with @krumple01 and if I remember correctly who did a fair share of trainings runs, reaching out etc) You have to meet somewhere, thats the MM in MMO. You can only do that with a minimum of communication. If I queue something with somebody I don't know and who doesn't know me we should at least know what we are facing.
I think the only argument here might be about the bolded part: It can't be an obligation, and a new player can't demand anything from me, cause I am here to enjoy just as much as them. If I want to, it's fine. I usually don't mind, any many vets don't mind either. The new player in my pov reaches out first, yes, unless it is guild/alliance, then I can see vets reaching out first. But the curse (?) of RQs is that there is no connection before. I'm not responsible for anybody. If they reach out, then it's cool. If there is radio silence I might try once on a good day, but otherwise feel like an idiot for even trying.
In your example @tchefi#6735 , everybody is at fault in my opinion, but a decent leader takes the blame. I don't see the vets as leaders in this example, just as staff/the team... However, in every business and in most settings communication is a key factor. If I cannot communicate "Hey I know I'm new, please bear with me and if you find it possible, educate me" I am equally to blame as someone saying "You are an HAMSTER for not being good enough" which is probably the point here...
There ARE language difficulties, there are completely new people in the game that don't really know NW yet. I get that. I also get that we do not always get what we want with complete strangers. As long as new players have that easy access to content that needs a minimum of communications (maybe RTQ, certainly a few REDQ) we will have those issues. I don't think vets are the ones responsible for that.
When random queues hit the scene as the new way to earn your daily bonus rad, I don't know a single person that was happy about it. If people "like" random queue's right now, it's probably because of the bonus rad, not the fact that you get put into a random dungeon you may not want to (be able to) run.
When they released random queue's they literally told us "We wanted to give the players more choices", which is complete BS and just corporate speak for "We're tired of people only queueing Shores or EToS for their daily Epic Dungeon bonus rad". Back when you would get bonus rad for your first nDung, eDung, Skirm, and icr but maybe trials too, been over a year.
People used to actually LFG for the dungeon they WANTED to run, now it's just for Rxxx, or LoMM/ToMM/CoDG, and very rarely for anything else. Random Queues are horrible, they take away your choice and at times put you in places you shouldn't be in in the first place.
Please tell me how random queues are great, except for the amount of rad you can get from them, and you'll be listing all the reasons you're IQ is below average.
4
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
So, quickfoot, anyone that doesn't think like you isn't as smart as you. Troll much?
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Comments
Questions :
- how many "veteran" players (=knowledge of mechanics + adequate gear) do their queues with a full ally premade ? If i take the exemple of the ally my guild is part of (La Grande Hermine, probably at this date the most populated 100% french-speaking ally), between 18h and 23h (french hours), there is easily 30 "allymates only" parties taking off for the REQ each day.
- how many "veteran" players do their queue with a premade using /z in PE or any /custom "elite" in game channel, requiring exp or power or IL or whatever ?
- what are the consequences, for the new players and tiny guilds/ally, of "veteran" players playing their REQ within their "veteran"/ally circle ?
- keeping the 3 first questions in mind, how many "veterans" players would help new players to do CR x5 with no intersting reward for themselves ?
- if your answer is "very few", don't you think newplayers would be sort of "locked out", gathered in sort of a newplayers "ghetto" if they need to do CR x5 before unlocking any rewards ?
- do you think the ghettoed newplayers must go through the process that "pathfinder-players" had to walk when mod14 was in preview or right after the release in 2018 ?
- do you think, from a gaming perspective, it is a lovely idea to build a system that segregates new players, so seasonned players can stay even further away from them than nowdays ?
- do you think taking correspondence courses is equivalent to learning in a classroom with other students and a teacher ?
- Must you watch a tuto video before trying anything ?
- Have you ever tried a dungeon without any previous knowledge about it (learning live and experienced it first hand) ?
- Will you try the new mod16 dungeon as a "naive virgin", or have you already watched some "X" tuto coming from preview server ?
- Would there be anyone left taking some of his personnal time to make tuto videos if everyone have the "I don't waste my time for strangers/newplayers" mindset ?
- What a MMORP game represents for you ? Is it as life, time = money so you don't stop at pedestrian crossings when a pedestrian is only one feet engaged on the road ?
edit : trying to get rid of the "hamster" word censure... seems triple X (and the previous more acurate and direct word I tried to use) is censured when we speak about a video.
My only concern with the "all stay together" strategy would be in a group with a new Warlock healer, as they might not have enough HP to survive the explosion + life bind's effect. In that case doing the mechanic might be the way to go, but everybody needs to be aware of things that may happen, such as: no safe (explosion-free) location, Strahd stunning someone and making impossible for them to avoid the explosion, explosions happening at the same time the X goes, successive explosions (where you need to move to avoid one explosion and move again immediately after that because the "safe location" will have an explosion 1 second after), and maybe others.
What I feel they need to do however, is to add in a mechanics guide for the dungeons: making them a mandatory read before able to queue (just once). They also should have auto-translation for players in chat, thus making it possible TO COMMUNICATE with non-English speaking players. Then if they don't listen more might be apt to agree to a kick.
As it is now, if you don't agree with this, then best run only with your alliance.
Discuss about the state of the actual game. Everybody would love to have at least people trying their best to understand the strats, and at least being geared to be able to do the content, but's that not what it is happening right now.
There's a time and a place for this, but not in the random queue. He will just play with his group of friend, and get his RAD, and the random queue will still be full of people who have no clue of what they have to do because they are undergeared for the content, but the game told them they can queue so they queue.
granted, as a soulweaver who heals with a 40' radius from the middle of her group, rather than by aiming radials at a distance, healing a party as we dash about the map is quite second-nature for me. It's quite fun in any case.
YOU have to run it 5 times like this to unlock it for Random Queue. All the dungeons should be designed this way. Two versions. If you never ran the dungeon before you are blocked behind this requirement until you have ran it.
Great sense of community forged by forcing one type of players onto others? Historically, in the general human history when that ended well? Or easier, in the game, this was done before, in the leveling random queue, how well that worked?
What is the criteria for this? Or the definition?
People always segregate into social groups by some defintion, some by game skill, some by language and culture, time zone, social compatibility and so on.
Lets take for example your guild, it has probably the most rigorous application process in NW (I'm not against it or for it, just using as example) which is done to create segregation. So is that valid? Or not valid?
Following that example, I'll point out the ages old argument, that there are masses of end-game capable guilds (lets define those by finishing CoDG/CR/LoMM) looking for players, but their criteria is not skill / gear based. I believe that the majority falls into that category.
The real solution to people only queuing for one dungeon because it's easy is to make rewards in each dungeon meaningful and unique, on top of giving you your daily rad, then people really do have a choice to make.
[disclaimer : no one here in this thread is specifically targetted by my words ! Even if i pick your words and quote, it's only as a starting point to voice my opinion. When I say "you" i'm talking to the "audience/public", not to someone specific
My opinion is quite the same as @micky1p00 above.
For me, the problem is not newplayers or ungeared players, or players who have no clue. The problem is not veterans / endgamers who don't want to bother carrying, explaining, giving to a stranger some of their "valuable" gamingtime because they don't want to hurt their "productivity" ( " " because my question about "what does a game represent for you" is not an innocent one, basically aren't we all wasting real life valuable productive hours playing a videogame ?)
For me, the core problem is "veterans"/"endgamers" complaining to be tagged along newplayers/undergeared players in random queues... but still dig themselves in random queue withtout also bothering gathering a selfsustainable (full or not) premade.
If you are really an endgamer, or if you play NW for years, if you have spend time (and maybe money) to train and build your toon(s), don't you think you should have been able to... i don't know... built and constantly renew around yourself a circle of players so you would be able to premade everytime anytime ?
That's this point i fail to understand. You can have all what you need to avoid the "pain" of getting a bad group in the RQ, but you still tag alone ? The "only" thing required is being able to socialize... which seems in nowdays MMORPG to be a big big big issue.
I'm playing a MMORPG, it's implied for me that I should bond with other players (but maybe i'm too oldschool, and MMO now means playing with "kleenex"-players : i blow my nose once, i throw away in the trash). I would even say it's implied I should roleplay my character (=talk as if my rogue was the bard she used to be, making poems and songs about the journey her group had in VT years ago, and singing it to the new group with whom she's trying to meet and defeat Ras Nsi. Would you kick me out of the dungeon if I make you wait 5 minutes at the last campfire as i'm /p sharing my astonishing talent ? )....
I joined a tiny guild level 4 in january 2017 (less than 15 active players, and none were engame), and some weeks later, as I was hooked, my playtime volume rose around ~4-5h /day on average (I tend to see that amount as a "hardcore" minimal playtime). The philosophy of our guild was and will always be "come and play as you are, as long as you don't get on anyone's neck".
I gradually took more and more responsabilities in my guild : recruitment, organization, animations, events, etc (leadership at the end) to help vitalizing it.
We joined a not so big ally (all guilds below level 10). There were ups and downs, but overall the ally managed to remain stable and overall in an ever growing process.
I helped building my guild (up to the level 20, 3 days left today before the upgrade is finished ^^), as a lot of other guildmembers even though participation was and will always remain facultative.
I took responsabilities in the ally (leading dragon runs, dungeon rush-runs, dungeon tutorial runs, events with giveaways as rewards, etc, though I do less than what I was used to before mod16).
I met a lot of nice "external" players (mostly during dungeons I had queued without premade).
Yeah, all of that took ia toll on the progression of my toons (in fact not so, because i'm also quite efficient at building my account, on the AH and "exploiting" the sales in Zen market)
Result is, without really forcing myself along this 3 years road, i have drawn a wide circle around me, and in a finger snap i have twice the required amount of players ready to jump in anything with me (even when it's for running LoMM with one of my not really well geared reroll).
I'm probably on one extremity of the spectrum (the "ultra-social" kind), but honestly is it so hard to find a "usual party" so you can do your daily RQ mostly with people you know are reliable ? Is it necessary to cast out new/undergeared/unskilled players so you can comfortably run "kleenex-players" without even the politeness to say hello/thx (because hey, typing is wasting time) ?
If you never try to uplift anyone to your level (or give up to do so), and altruistly help, I understand how hard it can be.
Even if it's hard, and time to time i'm not in the mood, I try to keep the altruist stance: sometimes (most of the time) it is in vain and a waste of my time, but once in a while I meet a good one, have plenty of fun with him, and I hang up because of that. At the end I will always have enough people siding with me whenever i need if i'm in a day i'm not in the mood to give my all to strangers.
At the end, we are playing with people. Being kind, patient, forgiving and helpful isn't it a thing we can consider to be the human way to go ?
It has nothing to do with having a guild or alliance that are willing to run content with you. These players need to do something. Because what happens when the entire party is full of all new players? You want to bring up the stupid excuse that they should be running the content with an alliance?
If we remove random que, ppl will run Specific dungeons, and the chance that they inform themselfs on a single dungeon is probably alot higher. And, since the que times would be longer, ppl will be incentivised to search for a group via zone chat or lfg, which secures that they can communicate, unlike alot of ppl in random que that apparently cant even say "hi"
Which one is responsible of this situation ?
I don't like that, but I will take a professionnal situation to make a parallel.
A new collaborater is hired in my team and this decision was taken by my boss. The new guy is young, has no diploma to fit as perfectly as we wished in the one vacant job my team has, but due to the lack of graduate people available on the market we get what we can and pay really a high salary. He also has not any professionnal experience yet.
Our boss doesn't give him any kind of internal formation time.
The new guy is not the talkative kind.
My team didn't really welcomed him because he didn't introduced himself. So we didn't introduce oursleves. He doesn't really talk to us, we don't really talk to him. Moreover he is the only [insert any religion/ethnotype/nationality] in the team. No one of us would ever make a step and ask "do you need a hand/an advice ?"
After a while, one day, he breaks one of our machine (let's say it's CNC machining, his job was CAM, creating cutting courses in voluminous pieces of steel for the mold industry, and he failed to see there was collision warnings between the spindle and the piece. 1000kg steel piece more or less wasted and 25k€ to repair the 5axis-machine)
Our mindset becomes : "this guy is HAMSTER, not efficient at all and completely incompetent".
He get fired.
And finally, i tell to my boss : never give us again someone with no experience in this job.
Who do you think have make a mistake in this story ?
The question is rhetorical.
But in my opinion, the ones who made the biggest mistake(s) are me and my team.
I don't know. Taking my exemple, I happened to be alot in "full unexperienced players" parties (quite obvious as I started NWO during mod10.5 with my brother and then i was queueing with him and another friend who started the game some days after us) : wipes and fail again and again. On a side note, i absolutely loved trolling the raging "endgamers" who prefered their first words in chat to be insults/mockeries/anger rather than "hello, do you want me to explain mechanics and give quick advices" ? Any kickvote against any of us was just denied as we were 3 :P
We were then endgame by mod12. Here we go again in mod13, as newplayers (but not so) we discovered CoDG by ourselves. And in mod14. And in mod16.
So many deaths, wipes, tries, retries.
But as Churchill once said "Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm".
But what if the Random Queue worked more like the beginners version of the Levelling Dungeon Queue?
You unlock Dungeons that get added to your own version of the Standard Random Dungeon Queue.
But of course, why would you? If you can get your daily bog standard rAD from ETOS, why the hell would you want to throw CR into the mix?
How about if your bonus rAD was based on how many Dungeons you had unlocked and there was a secondary, (tertiary I suppose if you count RP/XP) bonus to your first daily RQ? The value of such a bonus would have to be balanced between being valuable enough to make people want to add more Dungeons to their list, and not being too valuable as to cause imbalance in the game.
To add a Dungeon to your list, rather than just grinding sufficient campaign currency and "unlocking" it, (or even worse, having an account wide unlock) you need to run a tutorial version of it, complete it, and repeat that process several times over a number of different days (no more grindy than the process of having to unlock a dungeon via a campaign, in some situations FAR quicker and easier than completing a legacy campaign). Once you have sufficiently shown your proficiency, you get to add it to the list.
Anyone who has completed the dungeon prior to this system being implemented is grandfathered in automatically.
You would not need to undertake this process to enter through a pre-made non Random Queue.
You don't need to watch a video on CR, just go in the fight and wipe, game then gives you the mechanics.
Personally... I'd like to see all dungeons on a single random queue. How would this work?
A different IL level req for each.
The same basic daily rAD award for each.
Each dugneon would award a weekly bonus the first time a player runs it... tailored to dugneon difficulty and time spent.
Example:
You would gain 10,000 rAD per dungeon up to 3 a day. (random bonus)
You would queue into the highest iL level dungeon you qualify for that is ready to launch.
Each specific dungeon would award "1" weekly bonus per account. LoMM might give 50,000 rAD, while a leveling dungeon might only give 5,000 rAD. This mechanic would encourage players to start queuing for dungeons that they have not run recently.. in order to hit their rAD for the day. This brings variety... and balanced rewards.
I have heard people argue over their favorite RTQ, and the only argument was either "You can't pug XY with so many 'new players'" (inserted nicer term) or "XY has more chests/more RAD in chest".
Nobody I know is RQing because they like to be surprised by the general variety NW has to offer, but that is probably due to my limited people skills and my very limited love of RQs, and you know, people like to talk to people with a similar view of things...
In general, many people are running dungeons not for the "fun" purpose but for grinding, and that is fine, that's the game. But RQs just make it easier.
On 2x you farm codg, everytime else you cap with RQs.
I look forward to read the next CDP, because I'm sure many many people already have suggestions on dungeon loot / random bonus, and any changes to only running RTQ + 1 REDG is something I would look forward to. Loot in so many dungeons is so LAME it's no wonder that new people try their hardest to avoid anything older than tong.
A brand new player in a dungeon should be saying, "Hi, this is my first time in here, but I have seen videos and read a few guides on the dungeon and I think I understand most of it, but if there is anything else I need to know or do differently please let me know."
Anything other than that above statement, it is EXACTLY the same as a veteran being abusive to a new player. Because a new player who doesn't take advantage of the millions of sources of information on the game content is basically saying "FU IDK!" to the rest the party.
It should NOT be the responsibility of veteran players to train or teach new players how to run content. If a veteran wants to that is up to them, but it shouldn't be an obligation.
You have to meet somewhere, thats the MM in MMO. You can only do that with a minimum of communication.
If I queue something with somebody I don't know and who doesn't know me we should at least know what we are facing.
I think the only argument here might be about the bolded part: It can't be an obligation, and a new player can't demand anything from me, cause I am here to enjoy just as much as them. If I want to, it's fine. I usually don't mind, any many vets don't mind either.
The new player in my pov reaches out first, yes, unless it is guild/alliance, then I can see vets reaching out first. But the curse (?) of RQs is that there is no connection before. I'm not responsible for anybody. If they reach out, then it's cool. If there is radio silence I might try once on a good day, but otherwise feel like an idiot for even trying.
In your example @tchefi#6735 , everybody is at fault in my opinion, but a decent leader takes the blame. I don't see the vets as leaders in this example, just as staff/the team...
However, in every business and in most settings communication is a key factor. If I cannot communicate "Hey I know I'm new, please bear with me and if you find it possible, educate me" I am equally to blame as someone saying "You are an HAMSTER for not being good enough" which is probably the point here...
There ARE language difficulties, there are completely new people in the game that don't really know NW yet. I get that. I also get that we do not always get what we want with complete strangers. As long as new players have that easy access to content that needs a minimum of communications (maybe RTQ, certainly a few REDQ) we will have those issues.
I don't think vets are the ones responsible for that.
When they released random queue's they literally told us "We wanted to give the players more choices", which is complete BS and just corporate speak for "We're tired of people only queueing Shores or EToS for their daily Epic Dungeon bonus rad". Back when you would get bonus rad for your first nDung, eDung, Skirm, and icr but maybe trials too, been over a year.
People used to actually LFG for the dungeon they WANTED to run, now it's just for Rxxx, or LoMM/ToMM/CoDG, and very rarely for anything else. Random Queues are horrible, they take away your choice and at times put you in places you shouldn't be in in the first place.
Please tell me how random queues are great, except for the amount of rad you can get from them, and you'll be listing all the reasons you're IQ is below average.