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Is botting now apparently acceptable to cryptic ?

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  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User
    edited January 2020

    it's a thin line between macros and botting.. I know i've farmed in the same spot for hours though while doing other things. he could be reading a book. or watching tv. I used to do some work on the computer while doing various farming. it was probably 6 hours a night.

    Xuna involved by any chance? It all makes sense now - I throw fact at you based on dungeon experience and you keep throwing back some random theories or assumptions. This activity being discussed here is why companions should not be doing massive amounts of damage... they never have and Xuna is the exception - in short Bugged.
    Xuna is a lich-phobic, stick in the mud. #TeamMakos
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User

    it's a thin line between macros and botting.. I know i've farmed in the same spot for hours though while doing other things. he could be reading a book. or watching tv. I used to do some work on the computer while doing various farming. it was probably 6 hours a night.

    Xuna involved by any chance? It all makes sense now - I throw fact at you based on dungeon experience and you keep throwing back some random theories or assumptions. This activity being discussed here is why companions should not be doing massive amounts of damage... they never have and Xuna is the exception - in short Bugged.
    I suggest you scroll up and look at the title of this thread my dearie. as to the topic here that was being discussed, Botting vs farming... I haven't done it for a long time because it's moved away from being even a tiny bit profitable for me even for time doing something else when doing it. but I used to use my tiger to do my dirty work. and ftr, a soul puppet hardly deals massive amounts of damage. it's more like a gentle petting.
    It's all fun and games, until somebody grabs your tail...
  • duckie#5377 duckie Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    And now we xuna which for some odd reason you can't comprehend is a far more efficient farming tool. Standing a a spawn point while afk letting your companion kill stuff doesn't seem too different than running a bit of code that moves your character around. I know what the th> @sandukutupu said:
    > OFF TOPIC: @duckie#5377 I am getting sick and tired of certain people derailing threads to nerf Xuna. Xuna is WAI, if you cannot afford Xuna buy the Warlock she is only 11K in the AH and at rank 30 (blue rarity) she can kill stuff also. I believe many of the invoker class are WAI and the rest are broken.
    >
    > Cryptic cares to know from you, if you suspect illicit playing. Report it and they will handle it. Don't come to the forums crying at the players because you want a rare legendary companion.

    I'm getting sick and tired of people defending xuna because they are too lazy to build there character to do their DPS. I don't give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that you think it's the best thing out there and therefore everybody must want one. If you want to cry about people posting their opinions don't read. I want xuna fixed and provided solid fact as to why it is wrong,. Fireside was a part of that discussion in the CDP thread that got closed but defending xuna based on a load of garbage (so don't get high and mighty over posting in an unrelated thread.). Xuna fits in perfectly here because it's damage makes for efficient afk farming tool, and I see no difference between running a bit of code to afk farming or stand at a spawn point and let your comp do the work. Get off your high horse and I'll assume you abuse xuna too given your outburst,. Learn to play properly.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    edited January 2020


    I'm getting sick and tired of people defending xuna because they are too lazy to build there character to do their DPS. I don't give a HAMSTER that you think it's the best thing out there and therefore everybody must want one. If you want to cry about people posting their opinions don't read. I want xuna fixed and provided solid fact as to why it is wrong,. Fireside was a part of that discussion in the CDP thread that got closed but defending xuna based on a load of garbage (so don't get high and mighty over posting in an unrelated thread.). Xuna fits in perfectly here because it's damage makes for efficient afk farming tool, and I see no difference between running a bit of code to afk farming or stand at a spawn point and let your comp do the work. Get off your high horse and I'll assume you abuse xuna too given your outburst,. Learn to play properly.

    Just to clarify, I don't have to "defend" any companion. They gave me Xuna free for the 5th anniversary. If some one buys her from the AH for millions, and then the developers want to nerf her for whatever reason, they will. You and I have nothing to do with that decision. From my experience, Xuna is WAI and I think they should bring the other companions up to speed. Many of the invoker class is WAI and I have no issue replacing Xuna, other than the fact, I have her at legendary as of now. When Cryptic decides to nerf something, they will because it is their game, not yours.

    You are the one who came here, hijacked the thread about botting and attempted to redirect it to a companion. As I said, you are the one who brought Xuna into a thread about botting. The Neverdeath Graveyard could be done using any rank 25 green companion. The OP stated they had their soul puppet which is not a companion but a warlock skill. Does Cryptic need to nerf all the warlocks as well? There are many companions in the AH at present at a high price, do you believe the green Quickling is work 1 million AD?? I don't. It is just because the availability. Maybe you desire Cryptic to nerf the legendary mounts because they sell for a lot of AD as well? See if you can reply, without the vulgar language.

    wb-cenders.gif
  • dionchidionchi Member Posts: 913 Arc User
    edited January 2020


    I'm getting sick and tired of people defending xuna because they are too lazy to build there character to do their DPS. I don't give a HAMSTER that you think it's the best thing out there and therefore everybody must want one. If you want to cry about people posting their opinions don't read. I want xuna fixed and provided solid fact as to why it is wrong,. -snip-

    Just a suspicion, but I'm guessing you don't have a Xuna companion yourself... which also leads me to believe this may be more of a case of "sour grapes" syndrome.

    As has already been pointed out any companion of sufficient level can be parked in any spot where opponents reappear and can be taken out again. To the best of my knowledge this might not be absolutely Hoyle, it I don't believe it is against the game's TOS so to me what it appears we have here is a companion Working As Intended, while the player was otherwise occupied - (just how long did you stick around observing this behavior?) which might have been anything from shopping the Auction House or the Zen Market to actual AFK farming...

    But unless you are some kind of game developer or programmer, I kind of doubt you would know that other player's circumstances and just feel disgruntled because of what you think - without having any of actually knowing - what that other player was doing.

    My personal opinion is Xuna isn't 'broken', or at least not any more than any other companion, so she doesn't need to be "fixed".

    image
    DD~
  • pelgraxpelgrax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 479 Arc User
    Again , this thread deviated from botting / AFK farming .
    The individual concerned repeatedly botts/ afk farms . He is in the same area in excess of 5 or 6 hours ( seems to log on around 6 am GMT so either EU or UK based ) .
    I have sat and watched him for several minutes . His character sits right back into the monument at neverdeath and the movement consists of a few steps forward then backwards . After a set time it repeats . There is NO WAY he is manually doing this so is obviously using a macro to repeat these movements .
    His character NEVER attacks ( no animation observed at all ) and is relying on the sw puppet to easily kill the mobs .
    Then he obviously uses the macro to also repeatedly pick up any items around him .
    The character in my opinion is farming items that can be converted to gold for professions useage as there is nothing else worth farming for there .

    So as to date he's still there and Cryptic either doesn't care and in this case it should let the floodgates open so that we can all follow this example and if anyone gets banned they should ask why what is good for the individual is NOT allowed for the masses
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User
    Then report him to get him on the team's radar.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • pelgraxpelgrax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 479 Arc User
    already been reported through support with nothing apparently being done about it
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User
    Takes time and watching. Not just "Oh, he's doing it" reports.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • pelgraxpelgrax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 479 Arc User
    so multiple reports over several months including video footage attached to the reports doesn't give them enough time to come to the conclusion that no-one can sit at the same spot for excess of 6 hours each day and manually move their character the same few steps forwards and backwards and then repeat at the same intervals .

    This time doesn't allow them to look at their own reports about the individual's movements or rather lack of movement and then conclude that he is afk farming / botting and using a macro in order to do this .
    Either they don't care or don't have the ability / personnel to even investigate it efficiently .
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,041 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    Well, if someone gets their knickers in a twist from Xuna, they probably going to really lose their HAMSTER when they see the new Succubus in action... went to Barovia with my Rank 1 Willow Rosenberg, hearts started floating all over the place and enemies were dropping like flies around me.

    Best part about this, while Xuna costs over 7m AD, a Succubus is around 400k AD in the AH.

    Anyway, about bots in general, report/ignore and forget, it's not like Cryptic isn't doing anything against them, but most real botters have more then one account up and running, so by the time one might get banned due to reports, they still have several others working 24/7 for them.
    About this specific "case", hard to say if it's really a bot or just someone idling around while doing something else in real life.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Member Posts: 1,654 Arc User
    pelgrax said:

    so multiple reports over several months including video footage attached to the reports doesn't give them enough time to come to the conclusion that no-one can sit at the same spot for excess of 6 hours each day and manually move their character the same few steps forwards and backwards and then repeat at the same intervals .

    I'm not surprised that they haven't made the time to check this out (at least according to your assumptions).

    I am surprised that you have watched and recorded the actions of this toon on numerous occasions for hours upon hours over the course of months. Dedication turns into obsession very easily.

    Submit report. Move on with life.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,183 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    pelgrax said:

    Again , this thread deviated from botting / AFK farming .
    The individual concerned repeatedly botts/ afk farms . He is in the same area in excess of 5 or 6 hours ( seems to log on around 6 am GMT so either EU or UK based ) .
    I have sat and watched him for several minutes . His character sits right back into the monument at neverdeath and the movement consists of a few steps forward then backwards . After a set time it repeats . There is NO WAY he is manually doing this so is obviously using a macro to repeat these movements .
    His character NEVER attacks ( no animation observed at all ) and is relying on the sw puppet to easily kill the mobs .
    Then he obviously uses the macro to also repeatedly pick up any items around him .
    The character in my opinion is farming items that can be converted to gold for professions useage as there is nothing else worth farming for there .

    So as to date he's still there and Cryptic either doesn't care and in this case it should let the floodgates open so that we can all follow this example and if anyone gets banned they should ask why what is good for the individual is NOT allowed for the masses

    I am curious. What is the level of this character? If it is high, it won't aggro the mod without attack.
    Also, are all the character you saw from the same account? They can have the same name but not necessary from the same account. IMO, it is kind of dumb using only one character. I think one would do multi-boxing in different instance. Well, just curious.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • pelgraxpelgrax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 479 Arc User
    Same character - single account . Very high level gear . He has the " drinking buddy " title showing above his toon so that is another reason why I believe he is tied to another profesions account . Not part of a guild . It is the sw that attacks the mobs .
    Don't waste any more time on him other than observing that he is in Neverdeath .
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,183 Arc User
    edited January 2020

    I would be careful with such assumptions. I mean yeah, there are many bots and I report them as suspicious for botting if I meet them in dungeon which is especially massive on weekends. There are some clear indications if it is bot or no.
    But I heard about several issues with players banned for botting while they were absolutely not doing this. Cryptic assumed that long playing hours is botting - WHY? One of these players is from my guild and he was banned for "unrealistic play time" which is plain stupid. I myself can play up to 12 hours a day (working at home privilege of being my own boss), doing normal game things and not botting (not to mention that I am too dumb to even know how to do all this bot stuff, I just don't understand it O.O). So if someone sees my character standing at campfire for one hour because I chat at this time or browse AH or just read some lore, I can risk being considered bot? Wow, this makes me really wonder what kind of salty and ignorant people play this game... and how Cryptic ignores reality at times, turning to pure nonsense. Glad my ignore list is getting longer, too bad I meet those ignored in dungeons still.

    @cwhitesidedev#9752 @nitocris83 - CDP topic proposal - bots

    I think in your case, I suspect more on the fault of the programmer who defined the SQL Query statement to filter out who fit the profile. Those banning were automated. More than once, they do not write the proper Query to do the proper job. It was one evening, suddenly, hundreds of people were banned.

    I was banned once and I had no idea why I was banned. I was not BiS. I was not playing 12 hours a day (that is not a 'crime'). I did not have a lot of AD. I did not even have Legendary mount. I did not play AH (so that they could not pin me for transferring AD between account). I did not even play a lot at that time (so that they cannot pin me for exploiting the game and I do not do that).

    They eventually unbanned me but did not give me any reason why I was banned.

    There is ONLY one reason I could suspect why I was banned. That could be 'remotely' considered unusual.
    i.e. I did not logout. I kept my PC running 24x7. I stay connected unless the client crash, server problem, internet problem, power outage, ... It stayed on the 'character selection' screen. I just locked the computer and went to work or went to sleep. So, if the automated query looked at my "connection" time, I could be connecting for days. If the automated program interpreted that number as playing time, they could interpret that I am a bot.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • pelgraxpelgrax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 479 Arc User
    in reply to raven#3338 .
    The issue here is that this individual is static for in excess of 6 hours min at the same point ( directly where the mobs are ) .
    His minimal movement is repetitive - a few steps forwards and then backwards . After about 20 secs it repeats .
    There is no attack animation from his toon , the sw does all the attacks .
    If he is using chat it would then interrupt his macro from running likewise if he was browsing the AH as it would require keypresses which would interrupt the macro . The movement he does is through the macro in order to defeat the 15 min inactivity timer .
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,183 Arc User
    pelgrax said:

    Same character - single account . Very high level gear . He has the " drinking buddy " title showing above his toon so that is another reason why I believe he is tied to another profesions account . Not part of a guild . It is the sw that attacks the mobs .
    Don't waste any more time on him other than observing that he is in Neverdeath .

    Thanks. Can you provide the coordinate and its "working hour" for the "site seeing" purpose?
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • dionchidionchi Member Posts: 913 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    pelgrax said:

    Again , this thread deviated from botting / AFK farming .
    The individual concerned repeatedly botts/ afk farms . He is in the same area in excess of 5 or 6 hours ( seems to log on around 6 am GMT so either EU or UK based ) .
    I have sat and watched him for several minutes . His character sits right back into the monument at neverdeath and the movement consists of a few steps forward then backwards . After a set time it repeats . There is NO WAY he is manually doing this so is obviously using a macro to repeat these movements .
    His character NEVER attacks ( no animation observed at all ) and is relying on the sw puppet to easily kill the mobs .
    Then he obviously uses the macro to also repeatedly pick up any items around him .
    The character in my opinion is farming items that can be converted to gold for professions useage as there is nothing else worth farming for there .

    So as to date he's still there and Cryptic either doesn't care and in this case it should let the floodgates open so that we can all follow this example and if anyone gets banned they should ask why what is good for the individual is NOT allowed for the masses

    If you sat and watched this character for "several minutes" how do you know they've been there for "5 or 6 hours"? That just doesn't make sense...

    If you logged out of the area and came back, why isn't it reasonable to figure this person did the same thing?

    Without being a developer able to log on and view a player's activity over time, there is just too much about your complaint that just doesn't seem right...

    The things you claim are "obvious" to you in reality just don't seem that obvious to me. I myself have taken time to do other things while on a map and had to stop what I was doing because I got attacked... Granted if I had a companion of sufficient strength and power I may be more inclined to ignore the attack and continue shopping or whatever I was doing, but I don't - so I can't.

    One of the reasons I think Neverwinter is so reluctant to even investigate reports of botting is because of complaints like this, when a player doesn't appear to know what actual botting is accuses and attempts to report another player for botting - when they probably aren't.

    After a while of unproductively chasing wild geese eventually one is inclined to take some of those reports less seriously.

    If there is something actually going on - report it and walk away - quit demanding someone follow your guidelines as to how they should address the problem, if an actual problem there be.
    DD~
  • motu999#9953 motu999 Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    The only thing we can do, when we encounter *suspected* botting behavior, is to report and move on.

    Cryptic is very very vague in its definition of what they consider to be banneable behavior.
    I can understand that, to some extent.
    It gives them more flexibility and at the same time less opportunity for a banned player to appeal.

    Such flexibility is necessary, because of the technology race between (real) botters and botting detection methods.

    As always, flexibility can be misused.

    Unfortunately, there is not much that we can do about *suspected* misuse as well, except to "report" it and move on :-)
  • blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 514 Arc User

    I would be careful with such assumptions. I mean yeah, there are many bots and I report them as suspicious for botting if I meet them in dungeon which is especially massive on weekends. There are some clear indications if it is bot or no.
    But I heard about several issues with players banned for botting while they were absolutely not doing this. Cryptic assumed that long playing hours is botting - WHY? One of these players is from my guild and he was banned for "unrealistic play time" which is plain stupid. I myself can play up to 12 hours a day (working at home privilege of being my own boss), doing normal game things and not botting (not to mention that I am too dumb to even know how to do all this bot stuff, I just don't understand it O.O). So if someone sees my character standing at campfire for one hour because I chat at this time or browse AH or just read some lore, I can risk being considered bot? Wow, this makes me really wonder what kind of salty and ignorant people play this game... and how Cryptic ignores reality at times, turning to pure nonsense. Glad my ignore list is getting longer, too bad I meet those ignored in dungeons still.

    @cwhitesidedev#9752 @nitocris83 - CDP topic proposal - bots

    I was banned in Guild Wars many years ago, and it is a pretty funny story. I was given "Mercenary Hero 8 pack" as a Christmas gift 2011. Right away I wanted to build up a merc army like no other. All eight of my character slots were filled with level 20 characters. Meh, I deleted a few I didn't care for much. Then I started making PvP characters, saving them as mercs, and then deleted the original PvP character. After deleting about 10 or more level twenties, I started playing the game!

    That's when Dhuum rose up from the ground and killed me. It was both awesome and sick. The reason ArenaNet gave, my account was compromised (aka hacked), some nasty man was deleting all my level 20 characters. The ban lasted 24 hours and I had to change my password. And that is how you get banned by using an upgrade pack!

    The moral of my story is this; automated bans are actually "a good thing". The system looked at the insanity, that I was doing, and flipped its switches. Assuming something bad is happening, and making that error, is better than you losing all your stuff to some hacker. It didn't hurt me any, it just shocked the Hell out of me. Very few people ever get to witness, first hand, the grim reaper Dhuum, rise up and chop off your head.

    Assuming someone is botting is a tad bit paranoid, that is just my opinion. But here is my notion of the perfect way to deal with the botter/afker/jerks. You first set a hidden value on all players called the "Black Flag" into the database to zero. John A. Player thinks that Sue A. Botter might be botting. So John reports her for botting. The report gives her a hidden Black Flag point. The automated system begins to record Sue's behavior and if it can detect any typical bot behavior another point is added for each player report and each behavior. When the Black Flags get high enough or technician has the time, the data is sent to a human game monitor to judge this Sue A. Botter.

    If the human monitor believes this to be a bot, they ban them for 24 hours as a first time warning. Email is sent telling them why they got banned and how to appeal the decision. Each time they get caught botting the length of the ban is doubled. Which means by the 8th ban they are not playing the game for the better part of a year. Since most people do not bot, most people don't mind automation testing for botters.

    Just killing time...
  • alfared#9239 alfared Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    Funny thing...i've never reported that kind of stuff...not really looking for it but....today during a Kessell run...a weak party all died during the boss battle after really messing up all along the way....so i waited aside...let them die and finished the Boss solo....should have been it...but then before i left one (unknown to me) started insulting me...calling me childish names...upset that i showed him off i guess...so i "PFFF wannabe" replied and left...putting him on my ignore list....5 or 10 minutes later i get mail message from that guy (titled: You are my slave) with a saphire attached and a message that read as such:

    "You are kill boss for me...Slave of Kings.
    You kill boss for my bots in Kessell retreats and more dungeon, thanks !@)! Slave.
    Good day my PET. I have 100 Acc Bot for me, you are very &$#% in my feets."

    1st of all his English is horrible...and i only do Kessell nowadays...so i know i have not carried him anywhere else...2nd it is so childish that i really didnt bugged too much with it...but after i saw and read this tread...
    ...im very tempted to expose him...as i read in one of the message in this thread it would seem that we are not allowed to name people in the forum...so i wont give his identity here...

    You guys think i should report an idiot like that?
    Foolish enough to brag about being a bot operator in writing (im saving the message)

    Im sure they are pretty busy with launch week at Arc and whomever would take care of that....
    ...dont want to burden them with such small matter...but...i think this guy deserves to be exposed....
    ...plz let me know what you think of that situation!

    Thanks
    ...
    Post edited by alfared#9239 on
  • dionchidionchi Member Posts: 913 Arc User

    Funny thing...i've never reported that kind of stuff...not really looking for it but....today during a Kessell run...a weak party all died during the boss battle after really messing up all along the way....so i waited aside...let them die and finished the Boss solo....should have been it...but then before i left one (unknown to me) started insulting me...calling me childish names...upset that i showed him off i guess...so i "PFFF wannabe" replied and left...putting him on my ignore list....5 or 10 minutes later i get mail message from that guy (titled: You are my slave) with a saphire attached and a message that read as such:

    "You are kill boss for me...Slave of Kings.
    You kill boss for my bots in Kessell retreats and more dungeon, thanks !@)! Slave.
    Good day my PET. I have 100 Acc Bot for me, you are very &$#% in my feets."

    1st of all his English is horrible...and i only do Kessell nowadays...so i know i have not carried him anywhere else...2nd it is so childish that i really didnt bugged too much with it...but after i saw and read this tread...
    ...im very tempted to expose him...as i read in one of the message in this thread it would seem that we are not allowed to name people in the forum...so i wont give his identity here...

    You guys think i should report an idiot like that?
    Foolish enough to brag about being a bot operator in writing (im saving the message)

    Im sure they are pretty busy with launch week at Arc and whomever would take care of that....
    ...dont want to burden them with such small matter...but...i think this guy deserves to be exposed....
    ...plz let me know what you think of that situation!

    Thanks
    ...

    Definitely Report This Player!!!

    If they are so bold as to claim they are running a bot army then they are definitely in violation of the game's TOS, report them and hopefully someone can watch or contact them and have them explain what they meant by: "You kill boss for my bots in Kessell retreats and more dungeon, thanks !@)! Slave. Good day my PET. I have 100 Acc Bot for me,..."

    DD~
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