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CDP Topic: VIP

nitocris83nitocris83 Member, Cryptic Developer, Administrator Posts: 4,316 Community Manager
In the first phase of this CDP we would like you to think and comment about these questions:
  • The rate of free keys
    • We currently grant a key a day, which is 30 a month. We want to preserve the value of VIP, so if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?
  • Alternates to keys
    • How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option?
  • Ranks
    • How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks?
  • Current Benefits
    • Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?
  • New Benefits
    • What would you like to see added in terms of benefits?
    • Auction House
      • Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement?

    Here is an example of how VIP could look. Note: this is just an example but it is here to help provide insight and context into some of our thoughts:

    VIP Example
    • Instead of directly getting reroll tokens, VIP would be given a VIP currency and would have a store. The contents of this store would adjust over time but would likely start with things such as Preservation Wards, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrade Tokens, and yes Reroll Tokens.
    • 10-15 Lockbox Keys per month – These would now be in the new VIP store and players could go all in on keys only to max out at 15, or could opt for fewer keys and more of the other rewards which gives players more flexibility in what VIP offers them.
    • Increased odd chances on items in Lockboxes moving forward.
    • A higher cap on refined AD per day for VIP, 15% more for a cap of 115,000
    • Ability for VIP to change loadouts away from campfires
    • Increased health gain from VIP – grants every member of your group 1% of their base HP as additional Max HP. Maximum 5% with a full group of VIP.
    • Removal of VIP ranks meaning that anyone who purchases VIP gets full benefits immediately.
    As part of our stated goal of increased transparency and collaboration, we would like to hear your feedback, potential approaches or solutions, and participate in a dialogue regarding this topic. We look forward to engaging in productive discussions and putting together a proposal based on the ideas generated within this thread.

    Note: Using the feedback format below allows us to better identify commonalities/differences and generate summaries and proposals more efficiently. As a reminder, the format is for feedback proposals, not for discussions/replies to another user’s proposal.

    Feedback Format

    Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback)
    Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish)
    Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter)
    Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)

    Topic Discussion End Date: January 31, 2020

    • We will not disclose information regarding unreleased or in-development content. This includes specific business-related metrics, dates or timelines, or licensing agreements.
    • Game development is the primary focus of the team - developer presence on these subforums cannot realistically be as frequent as the community would like. This does not mean the team is not invested in this initiative; it is taken very seriously. Thread summaries and actions plans developed once a topic has concluded its run are extremely valuable in maintaining the development team aware of the focused feedback, discussions, and community sentiment.
    • These subforums are meant to be a collaborative discussion where we all learn from each other, share perspectives, and come to the table with ideas for the improvement of Neverwinter. This does not mean that we will take action on every proposal or that positive comments from the development team are to be construed as promises.
    • Keep comments and discussions on topic and follow the CDP Conduct and Expectations.
    *Rewards & Progression has been rescheduled for the third CDP topic, followed by PvP.
Post edited by cwhitesidedev#9752 on


  • cwhitesidedev#9752 cwhitesidedev Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 253 Cryptic Developer

    why would you increase the odds of the lockboxes? that would just lose your revenue. less people would buy boxes because they'd already have all the stuff and the stuff would flood the market making everything worth a lot less. you are talking about rampant inflation with EVERYTHING in this post.

    and frankly I don't trust that the odds would stay increased. you'd say they're increased when really it was just a way to rob us of our keys. this company has a very poor track record. this proposal is one that asks us to take a devaluing of something we've already bought and paid for. I'm over a year out with vip. this is something you should hold a very dear value on as it brings you money. I think there should be more ranks not one that everyone has instant access to. I had to pay money for my original ranks of vip. why should others NOT have to to get the benefits? the auction house is something we have paid the right to have no listing fees. I want my 30 keys a month. I want more keys not less. if i had a choice.

    Rough ad should not have a higher cap for anyone. there needs to be more constraints on ad in the game not a loosening up of it. that will just hasten inflation.

    you say a vip store. what that tells me is the price will go up and I will not get the same value that I get daily from my rerolls. I'm happy with my rerolls thanks. unless you want to give me more.

    wow, I'm honestly pretty angry over this. enough where walking away is a potential outcome for me.

    I would like to talk about more ranks and more things that could be added. I don't want to talk about you taking things away from a service we've already paid for in good faith.

    further more what happened to the MEANINGFUL cdp topic we were promised?

    Rewards and Progression will be in 1 week and 3 days.

  • theraxin#5169 theraxin Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    So, my de-constructive feedback, at least for a first glance before going to bed:

    I would argue that VIP is at the moment, effectively unranked, because you buy the time and the rank in the same time (except very specific bundles and packs). You get things gated off for the first few purchase, but in essence, you can't stay at a Rank or lose a Rank and if you are a hard invester, Ranks does not matter. Ranks might be a problem for those just want to get in with a month and only get a key and a few potion, which is a problem, but I think the problem is that the system expects them to pay in advance for a full year to get benefit for the full year from it.

    I say this because I would like a VIP system that has hardly separated Ranks that can be scaled by the player's need or convenience. For example, I don't really expect much from the keys and I hardly ever bought keys even in sale, but I always keep up my VIP for the summonable vendor and stuff, not get injuries and other things. And it's a good value, so logical to try and keep it. If there would be a Rank 1 VIP that is the "value Rank" and a Rank 2, where less extra value, but more convenience, I would absolutely consider Rank 2 and gaze upon Rank 3 as an actual "VIP place" to be in, with a ton of cool stuff, but not really much extra "value".

    But if VIP upgrades itself into the cap automatically, well, maybe removing the Ranks is a good idea if there won't seem to be a reason to keep off the later benefits. But also, because VIP is not really a scaling system, you can try and balance the value in it, but it will never incentivise players to not see it as an investment, but cool perks to be had.

    So, I'd like Ranks, but actual distinct Ranks that scales with the players priorities about why they would like to be "VIP".
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,622 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    I don't like to get less key and improved odd (although I don't really open lockbox).
    I don't like the currency store idea.
    I am indifference of the rank change because I'm already rank 12 since the beginning.
    I value the QoL services the most.

    I don't mind to have a choice to pick among re-roll token, p-ward, ... (as long as you don't touch the 30 lockbox keys).
    I don't want better odd for the lockbox if you touch the amount of lockbox key.
    I like higher AD cap.
    I like the ability to change loadout away from camp fire.
    I like health gain.
    I am indifference of removing ranking (because I'm already rank 12).

    So, if I have to give up something to gain, it is a big NO.
    If you want to make VIP better with NO set back in the existing benefits, it is a big thumb up.

    For the cheap improvement (as ease of implementation and not gaining too much to (say) alter the economy), I would like to
    have the following (order by my favorite) and without losing any current benefit:

    change loadout away from camp fire
    Health gain
    higher AD cap
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • thalia#2847 thalia Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    I definitely like the idea of a VIP store instead of the current system we have now. Some ideas that come to mind right-away would be:

    You can maybe earn additional currency as part of a streak bonus for logging in consistently or upkeeping you VIP status can increase your rewards as well.

    Currency can be saved or spent right-away either on keys and other useful items, or, VIP promotion items added into the store.(move the 50% VIP sales to the new store)

    Discounts from more vendors like the trade bar store and maybe even seal vendors too.

    The increased cap on refining AD, along with the group HP and swapping loadouts anywhere sounds like a good idea to me.

    More opportunity to add variety through cosmetic items as well, such as different visuals for the signpost and bank summons.

    Some concerns would be players finding their ranks of VIP devalued if not done properly, because it took multiple purchases of
    to accumulate the benefits they have now. Also, it needs to feel like its not a "cash grab" and that there's more to get to what you put into the initial cost. It would need to be continuously updated to keep it fresh and interesting

  • geminisky59#9345 geminisky59 Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    I think the VIP benefits like auction house price reduction, travel signpost, shared bank, vendor all are very convenient services in game and should remain for vip holders. I don’t think having to login every day to get a key that you have already have purchased VIP to acquire really makes sense. Vip tokens or keys should be awarded the 1st of the month for VIP subscribers 30 tokens per month which should allow us to choose to purchase items or keys from the VIP store. VIP tokens should be accumulative on a monthly basis if you keep your VIP subscription. Some items in the store could be things like legendary dragon keys, new master crafting recipes, maybe even new player housing or account unlocks on various companions, mounts, gear etc.
  • littledanger#4115 littledanger Member Posts: 71 Arc User
    Without getting all wordy, leave VIP alone. If anything place “packs” back into the lockboxes.

    I’m like many above, I have over 600 days of VIP left.

  • bronto111bronto111 Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    Lockboxes have always been pure gambling...and i have proposed changes for many years now .
    I have suggested that lock boxes should be set up similiar to DOTA2,
    where these have say 20 possible items in the box and you get one random item each time you open one BUT you do NOT get duplicate items UNTIL you have received one of each available item.That means that you ALWAYS get one of each out of every 20 boxes opened.In this way it is not truly random,nor is it gambling since you can guarantee getting everything in the box after opening a fixed number of boxes.
    As Valve discovered this change away from gambling lock boxes had the opposite effect from what many believed...instead it meant that many more people buy lockboxes to open than ever before because they could now guarantee they would get what they actually wanted ,without having to buy $1000 (of real money) to open vast numbers of lockboxes and still NOT get what they wanted.
    Personally the gambling part of opening lockboxes caters to the minority,VIP was a good step to allow a fixed cost for majority to get keys at a reduced cost ,thats really the main feature of vip.
    And so if you got lucky and get some good rewards from VIP keys (like legendary mount) you could sell that for more than youre VIP cost and wind up with an astral diamond profit.
    The other features of vip are simply annoyances that should have been scrapped years ago anyway.Things like posting fee for auction house listings,VIP removes it but it should have never been there anyway.The point of the AH is to sell something for AD...so why should it cost AD to list an item for sale when you get that AD back anyway if the item sells...it just screws over anyone trying to start out and is new to the game.
    To me VIP should only be convenience things LIKE the portable bank/mail/teleport/proffesion vendor etc,the discounted marks etc really are useless since the same items are cheaper in the AH usually cause so many of them drop from lockboxes as low rank rewards,
    tarm trade bars like wise are a useless extra economy shop.since trade bar shop is only there as an extra incentive to open lock boxes and you only get random amount of tradebars from each lockbox opened.
    Back when the trade bar vendor also sold coal wards then trade bars were at least useful,now the only thing people do with trade bars is buy things to sell to get AD out of the trade bars...i seriously doubt there are many people that actually use trade bars to buy items to use themselves .
    The majority of players do NOT like gambling becuase it only benefits the minority...people like me who did mastercrafting and battled the crafting RNG and won to make huge profits...who bought vip and got lucky with legendary mounts etc and sold them all for more profit...
    I have 250,000 zen earned legitimately playing the game the way it is,buying/selling/crafting/etc (NOT by spending real money) but i am smarter than average and most players simply dont have the intelligence or the patience to work their way thru the games minefield of RNG randomness and AD sinks to actually win at playing.
    Instead they are trying to have fun and failing cuase they cant get the items that make playing fun.Or spend an inordinate amount of available play time trying to get ahead of the curve.
    IT is time to level the playing field so there is less profits to be made by minority who are profiting from the majority by playing the games randomness and winning.
    RNG has a place ...like weather your hit does a crit of not ...but DOES NOT belong in whether or not you get a valuable useful item you actually NEED.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    You don't need anything from a lockbox. You can play the game fine without those items. It's pure want. And you can buy thing on the ah that drop from them cheaper than doing lockboxes. The majority do like the gambling aspect. At least of players I know. Having guaranteed drops would render the economy dead
  • tempus86#1158 tempus86 Member Posts: 165 Arc User
    Lets be honest, this is not a free to play game in reality.
    If everyone played for free, no one would ever get anything off the zen market
    Someone HAS to buy zen and sell it on the exchange, or the whole thing falls apart. You are buying zen from players, not the company.
    That's why theres a 4+ week waiting time on the exchange, a lot of whales are leaving, and that wait time keeps going up
This discussion has been closed.