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M18 Class Balance Adjustments

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  • arkai#8115 arkai Member Posts: 167 Arc User
    I' ve question why warlocks magnitude is so low on theyr power in front of the other power i can see on my rng thief and all other toons? Fiery bolt is just underperform can u consider 250 275 mag and full aoe dmg? Hadar grasp will be cool at 330 curse bite 300 hellfire ring 180/280 killing flame 650-900 hellish at55-60 sword 45 each sword or up time they hit cuz is very low hand of hadar 90. Can yu pls consider to give a look to this @noworries#8859 ik yu alredy did a lot and ty for listen about change name of lesser curse was needed :)) i appreciate so mutch but pls give a look again on mag power for see if they can be pushed a lil more for be more balanced in front of thief or rng or dc or the other class tyvn cheer
  • arkai#8115 arkai Member Posts: 167 Arc User
    > @gonzakotwi said:
    > > @arkai#8115 said:
    > > I' ve question why warlocks magnitude is so low on theyr power in front of the other power i can see on my rng thief and all other toons? Fiery bolt is just underperform can u consider 250 275 mag and full aoe dmg? Hadar grasp will be cool at 330 curse bite 300 hellfire ring 180/280 killing flame 650-900 hellish at55-60 sword 45 each sword or up time they hit cuz is very low hand of hadar 90. Can yu pls consider to give a look to this @noworries#8859 ik yu alredy did a lot and ty for listen about change name of lesser curse was needed :)) i appreciate so mutch but pls give a look again on mag power for see if they can be pushed a lil more for be more balanced in front of thief or rng or dc or the other class tyvn cheer
    >
    > We have to remember this was kind of a hotfix and we should be getting a proper rebalance on mod 19. So thats why i didnt insist on that, even though what we are lacking is single target dps needed in content as tomm and what was touched here was more aoe dps. So we just have to wait (again), but i promise if we dont get a nice fix on mod 19 i will gather an angry crowd with torches and tridents and come by to cryptics office :)

    Yes yu right but from my point of view my sw maxed is since m16 relased is underperforming i just ask if in waiting m19 m20 we can add more flat balance (especially st right)for just be on demand for high end level dung and trial im just not want play as healer with a sw :) but yeah we will see m19 will be soon i hope :)
  • tempus86#1158 tempus86 Member Posts: 164 Arc User

    I' ve question why warlocks magnitude is so low on theyr power in front of the other power i can see on my rng thief and all other toons? Fiery bolt is just underperform can u consider 250 275 mag and full aoe dmg? Hadar grasp will be cool at 330 curse bite 300 hellfire ring 180/280 killing flame 650-900 hellish at55-60 sword 45 each sword or up time they hit cuz is very low hand of hadar 90. Can yu pls consider to give a look to this @noworries#8859 ik yu alredy did a lot and ty for listen about change name of lesser curse was needed :)) i appreciate so mutch but pls give a look again on mag power for see if they can be pushed a lil more for be more balanced in front of thief or rng or dc or the other class tyvn cheer


    Ye that really is over the top, I want buffs as much as the next warlock but that's just OP

    Blades hits 13 times with curse up, so that would be 585 magnitude on a very short CD AND its AoE. 30 per blade, for a total 390 is much more realistic
    Killing flames is fine as it is. its 625mag on average, which is great for a 12-13sec CD
    350mag main target - 175mag AoE for Fiery bolt is a good compromise, since it could be used for both single target and AoE, while not being OP
    300 for Hadars Grasp (450 with curse consume) would be plenty 330 (495) is too much.
    300 for Curse bite would be fine if it was only 1 charge. ( its effectively 1 charge anyway in normal combat, since they charge 1 after each other)
    60 is way to high for hellish rebuke that would be 75mag with NPNM, 50 would be fine (63 with NPNM)
    325mag for vampiric embrace and ditch the temp hitpoints, since its useless with a paladin in group

    but as gonza said, stuff really needs a rework,
    Dreadtheft
    Arms of hadar
    Infernal Spheres - animation gets stuck ( broken since m16 preview)
    All suck/don't work properly
    Soul scorch doesn't give curse or AP (broken since preview m16)

    Eldritch blast 3rd hit still doesn't do double damage ( broken nearly 4 months now)


    most class features suck
    Dailies kinda suck except accursed souls,
    Tyrannical is still broken, since M16 preview
    Too many things linked to "killing mobs", don't need Procs after killing mobs.... they already dead
    Lesser curse doing 12 magnitude? why even bother its effectively zero, especially with curse consume mechanics
    Feats or not even close to balanced with each other, even with the change to creeping death, Executioners is just better in every playstyle.


    Though from the Dev stream M19 may not even be coming till end of the year. I really don't think I can wait another year for fixes. the whole point of the M16 shuffle was to make class balance and easy thing to sort out... clearly not the case

    Also as for this "warlock is solidly middle of the pack" business..... HA! 5 is solidly in the middle of the pack between 1 and 10, but its still 50% less than 10
  • giz#2086 giz Member Posts: 189 Arc User


    60 is way to high for hellish rebuke that would be 75mag with NPNM, 50 would be fine (63 with NPNM)


    Clerics have 70 magnitude at-will, Ranger's Storm strike is 70, Fighter's Heavy Slash is 100 magnitude, etc. I don't think that 60 for Hellish is too much.

    @noworries#8859 AP gain still too low on Hellbringer. Fiery bolt AoE penalty have no sense.

    I believe that their mentality for Hellbringer is to be mediocre at best, good for dailies and minor dungeons, but very bad for end game group content.


    ....The 20% damage buff from Hellfire Expertise still missed in a game with classes with consistent damage buffs. A change to 10-15% would have been ok, but deleting it was a very bad move to the class.
  • mongol69mongol69 Member Posts: 333 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    Might as well take whatever warlocks get at this point and make a hard choice. We are looking at 2 years total to get it in line with other dps anyways.

    Mod 16, 17, 18 complete trash and hope and pray mod 19 delivers promise of balance they purported last year actually comes next year.

    Meantime play a hr, tr, cw or go full support. That's the obvious push from devs with intentional trash status for fury for 2 years.

    Running my wizard for dps, pally for tanking and cleric if I want to heal in the meantime. Rather play alts already built for and capable of endgame heal, tank and dps roles than revamp to a healer role that struggles to get in endgame content as much as its dps role.

    If no other alts it is an expensive transition but only viable option if you don't elect for floating dumpsterfire heals spending more time lfg than actually playing content. Or be maxed endgame fury that can only compete with other subpar midgame viable dps classes.

    Nothing makes people feel the same sense of wounder as watching a player with a mediocre half built dps outperform a max endgame toon.

    Makes me reminisce the days when my cw in mod 16 using rof only in a run would almost double a warlock of equal gear and stats flat out in lomm going full tryhard in dps. I believe the statement at the time from devs was "warlocks were in a good place".
    Post edited by mongol69 on
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 951 Arc User
    > @nebo822#7906 said:
    > erm ... ok ! :D haha
    >
    > It is very clear that you ether do not play warlock at all, so why are you commenting on stuff about the warlock class when you dont understand it in the first place?
    >
    > For warlock, it does not matter where they stand, they have combat advantige, to put it in simple terms for you to understand.

    Its very clear that u have no understanding of endgame content or classes in this game, so pls stop commenting on stuff you dont understand
  • demarw2#2749 demarw2 Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    Would it be possible to get the class balancing changes on play station (and Xbox) already next week? That would be really nice.
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 951 Arc User

    @Tom
    I'm playing end game since 2013 along with some of the best people I meet in the game like WickedDuck, Northside, Robb, MiniMi, ect ... think you mission to bully someone just failed.

    ill ask wicked about you, and the other names dont let u seem more competent tbh xD.
    Pls explain to me why we should consider a classfeature that lets a class have combat advantage when talking about balance? In every situation where it counts everyone has combat advantage anyways.
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    If mod 19 is delayed until end of this year, does that mean that further class changes that you promised us, will also be delayed until end of this year? Actually, you specifically mentioned warlocks and fighters to be reworked BY Mod 19 (i have my doubts if the "BY" can be substituted with "IN" due to your wordings). Furthermore, this would leave the presumption that you will touch all other classes in mod 20 and there are far too many that i think that his matter will ultimately be settled in mod 21 (if you last that long that is).

    We appreciate that pure balance is nearly impossible, but currently the balance is very impure, need to remove the precipitate.
  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    Maybe I did not hear Mr. Whiteside correctly, but for me it sounded like we will be getting two full Mods. a year going forward but we will be also getting story and adjustment content every two months. See many pointing out like all we shall see is two mods. a year, while missing the fact he clearly spoke about something every two months. That is what evergreen is an ever changing world. We shall have two very good mods and lots of filler between them to keep things fresh.
  • nermaleyenermaleye Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    I would like to see the shield back on the control wizard the way it use to be. I feel like the have broke that class. Plus the warden is ok but it would be nice if something is not broken do not fix it. I really feel that the tanks are doing more dps then any other class at the moment. For all classes in the game it should be more balanced.
    I love to play MMO's & 1st person shooters. An when I am not playing I rebuild & trouble shoot computers.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    nermaleye said:

    I would like to see the shield back on the control wizard the way it use to be. I feel like the have broke that class. Plus the warden is ok but it would be nice if something is not broken do not fix it. I really feel that the tanks are doing more dps then any other class at the moment. For all classes in the game it should be more balanced.

    An elite Justicar tank set for maximum DPS does about 70% of the damage of an elite DPS class. Since an elite player dwarfs the damage of an average player... it might seem like tanks are out DPS-ing the DPS, but I believe it is set about right. How do you want shield to be?... I rarely saw any Wizards using it before. IMO it needed a buff or a change.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Some comments on Shadowknife (preview server). I see three (proposed) changes:

    Disheartening Strike: 5000 defense reduction changed to +5% personal damage buff (10 seconds, 1 target) Great change. This is a single target skill, but it will not impact damage at all. In a 12 second round, a shadowknife deals about 2000 magnitude to a target. One use of Disheartening Strike at the start will increase this by 50 magnitude. Disheartening Strike conditionally deals 80 magnitude every .9 seconds. It only procs weapon enchants once per second. For these reasons, it is far better to spend that second spamming Sly Flourish instead. (Sly Flourish deals 120 magnitude per second versus single target and procs weapon enchantment 4 times. Disheartening Strike needs its DOT damage doubled from 50 magnitude to 100 magnitude, or its base damage increased from 30 magnitude to 50 magnitude. Only this amount of an increase will make it an option in a serious boss fight.


    Shadow Strike: magnitude increased from 375 to 550.
    I greatly welcome this. I dropped Shadowstrike from nearly every situation and build because at the end of the day... it reduced damage. Now it becomes viable and opens up the build alternatives. It should not increase top-end damage potential of the Paragon by much if any.

    Impact Shot: magnitude increased from 400 to 450.
    This one will help all of my single target builds. Impacted builds will deal about 2 to 3 percent more single target damage.


    ENCOUNTERS: Great balance. All are useful.
    DAILIES: still worthless. Use the general daily skills.
    AT-WILLS: players can now use Disheartening Strike in single target without too much damage loss. Shuriken + Sly Flourish still the best combo for all builds.

    DPS: Top end damage potential increased by about 2% versus single targets only.
    Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User

    nermaleye said:

    I would like to see the shield back on the control wizard the way it use to be. I feel like the have broke that class. Plus the warden is ok but it would be nice if something is not broken do not fix it. I really feel that the tanks are doing more dps then any other class at the moment. For all classes in the game it should be more balanced.

    An elite Justicar tank set for maximum DPS does about 70% of the damage of an elite DPS class. Since an elite player dwarfs the damage of an average player... it might seem like tanks are out DPS-ing the DPS, but I believe it is set about right. How do you want shield to be?... I rarely saw any Wizards using it before. IMO it needed a buff or a change.
    Seems way too much anyway
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • bigdragon#4214 bigdragon Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    Why buff again TR and not buff barbaria? @noworries#8859
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    @bigdragon: Whisperknife was underperforming compared to Assassin. It still is... essentially all they gained was build flexibility. One thing I failed to consider above directly impacts everyone:

    A Whisperknife using Disheartening Strike (at-will) & Shadow Strike in their rotations... now buffs the physical and projectile damage of all allies by 10% versus their target. This fact might be lost on a whisperknife trying to do DPS themself, but its a serious new team buff.
  • drago#3250 drago Member Posts: 160 Arc User

    nermaleye said:

    I would like to see the shield back on the control wizard the way it use to be. I feel like the have broke that class. Plus the warden is ok but it would be nice if something is not broken do not fix it. I really feel that the tanks are doing more dps then any other class at the moment. For all classes in the game it should be more balanced.

    An elite Justicar tank set for maximum DPS does about 70% of the damage of an elite DPS class. Since an elite player dwarfs the damage of an average player... it might seem like tanks are out DPS-ing the DPS, but I believe it is set about right. How do you want shield to be?... I rarely saw any Wizards using it before. IMO it needed a buff or a change.
    Seems way too much anyway
    Tank has much more variable. You can't compare.
    How many AoE, how many Stuck and so on. An elite DPS can tank much - if not most content. -> Way too much?
    This maximum DPS Tank has not that much Hitpoints and don't block that much and slot over 150k+ Power instead of Defense. You can slot Defense as DPS aswell and slot Hitpoints. You would not believe how tanky you can be.
    BUT - If that is all true & easy to do -> everyone would do. And they do of course not.
    While I can assume your grandmother would perform not that bad as elite DPS, I can assume your same grandmother would perform very bad as tank. She would be kicked out of every game. She would never Tank IC or TOMM.
    Keep in mind that it's even harder play maximum DPS. You are weaker in Defence AND get more Aggro.
    It is simply not possible to play like this for most players. Some players seem to forgot a real player still need to play this character. And the stage of the game is not that there are plenty of tanks. Most Tanks would argue to get buffed in DPS and not nerfed.
    There will be no response.
    Forum inactive since 15-03-2021. Thank you.
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