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"The game is just not fun anymore"

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  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,629 Arc User
    putzboy78 said:

    I think the situation is a lot more nuanced than that. Firstly, yes even for GH20s the attrition rate for members is double what it used to be (it used to be 2% attrition a week, now it’s 4%). What does this mean? It means more time spent recruiting and less time spent playing if you’re trying to keep your guild population up. And why wouldn’t you, you need a social network in game to entertain your guildies.

    Now take that attrition rate and the fact you aren’t just loosing new players, your also loosing seasoned vets. Your old standbys that logged in daily for years. Now you got cultural issues to contend with as your new blood (less than a year in game) out populates your old blood. So your contending with integration issues which frustrates… well everyone.

    Module 18 is not going to keep the players engaged. Simply put, it’s terrible. Recycled mechanics on a recycled map, with recycled mobs. Who the F wants to kill chickens every day, move that nonsense fetch quest to summer fest.

    The icing on the cake is @cwhitesidedev#9752 on live stream basically saying we can expect fewer mods per year (as if our 1 mod last year wasn’t bad enough) and the mods are going to be smaller (but higher quality).

    Here is my theory. WotC bought Tuque Games. So WotC doesn’t care about this game anymore as they are as long as the content released doesn’t hurt their IP. They are milking the last dime out of Neverwinter. Unlike kaligold who thinks @cwhitesidedev#9752 is the Peter Grant of Neverwinter, I believe he is more like the Bobs from Office Space. Here to cut the fat, but we will be no better for it.



    I believe you have my stapler...
  • bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    With how predominantly "From the makers of neverwinter" is used in the Magic the gathering promo stuff, a dissatisfied player base is a marketing liability. I am hoping that they they will try to please us so we don't do the following.

    Potential MTG player: "This new MTG game is by the same people who did neverwinter, how did they treat you guys?"

    NWO player: "Pretty badly, the quality of the game went down hill sharply not long before the MTG game was announced and they had been either distant or deceptive for a while. Think twice before you give them money."

    they would rather we say: "Yeah things got rocky but they pulled it back together and learned from their mistakes. They are alright i guess."

    so i am hoping that means we will get a better product out of this. Our positive word of mouth is cheaper and more effective than advertisement bucks.

    I am trying to remain optimistic and i am sticking around to give them a chance, but if the next few modules don't hit it out of the park to make up for Mod16's drawbacks it may be enough to hurt the new IP before it even launches.
    I am hoping things improve even if it is just as a means of damage control.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,935 Arc User
    Well, as mentioned before, the former and/or current Devs of NWO should really read
    "Satisfied Customers Tell Three Friends, Angry Customers Tell 3,000"
    and learn from it...

    Going by feedback from other players about Infernal Descent, i doubt that the new module is going to bring any fun back to the game for the majority of players.

    On the plus side, the Magic Legends trailer music

    is really nice.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • lame22334lame22334 Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    Its because they turned it into a cash cow....everything is geared toward endless grinding to keep you playing for that better gear and thus spending money. Another deterrent for me is when i log in..ask a simple question in a zone full of people...

    and get no answer..the community is abhorrent and uncaring...as a casual (rp'r) i find almost zero reason to even log in anymore. I still play STO and i find some rp'rs still there and i still find that game fun..but here...newp.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    We had a major alliance meeting yesterday about trying to make things more lively. While we're going to restart our Saturday Dragonflight and Marauders events, one theme that kept recurring had to do with the lack of variety in the last couple of mods. Put simply, endless ME's, WE's, and FE's broke the morale of many of our members. None of us are at the level of being able to run TOMM, so that leaves us with little to strive for and no novelty. I think our Foundry authors are hurting the most, for obvious reasons. We have no creative outlet. Our alliance caters to mature, casual gamers, so we tend to not have people into grinding the hardest dungeons anyway. I'm hoping that Mod 18 will have a lot more variety in the experience than what we've had this year, but from seeing it on Preview I'm not all that optimistic.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,822 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    hustin1 said:

    We had a major alliance meeting yesterday about trying to make things more lively. While we're going to restart our Saturday Dragonflight and Marauders events, one theme that kept recurring had to do with the lack of variety in the last couple of mods. Put simply, endless ME's, WE's, and FE's broke the morale of many of our members. None of us are at the level of being able to run TOMM, so that leaves us with little to strive for and no novelty. I think our Foundry authors are hurting the most, for obvious reasons. We have no creative outlet. Our alliance caters to mature, casual gamers, so we tend to not have people into grinding the hardest dungeons anyway. I'm hoping that Mod 18 will have a lot more variety in the experience than what we've had this year, but from seeing it on Preview I'm not all that optimistic.

    I suggest you think about daily event and not just weekend. Daily event does not mean individual member has to attend every day.
    Most of the weekend only events does not last long because not everyone can be there on that day and at that time. If it "works", it ends up with a small group of players instead of majority. If it does not work, it ends up with disappointment as one or two come and nobody else.
    If a time is fixed daily, majority of people can join at least one of the days if not more.
    Daily Dragonflight can provide a lot to contribute to SH construction (assuming there are guilds within the alliance need that) and individual also gets guild mark and get currency to get rAD.
    It only takes about 10 minutes for the fight and a bit more to organize. However, there are leadership/bonding effect.
    Same bat time and same bat channel (same Stronghold) every night can gather people.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • pakatapoespakatapoes Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    I have a couple of days of VIP , letting them runout . I dont know if I will play anymore
  • giz#2086 giz Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    I play a DPS Warlock, i really not playing the game since October. I have no place in the game, and no, thanks i don't want to change my role. I play for fun, and the class that i play is the meme class of Neverwinter. The game is not fun when the devs are doing everything to force you to play a role. For some classes it's frustrating to play because of this.
  • kamehameha069#8658 kamehameha069 Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    I took a hiatus in early September last year (I'm on console PS4), I just logged in last night since and was really suprised to see our alliance had 3 open spots! I've been with them for years and never seen such, chat was dead. I do have 5 characters but I'm a Warlock main :( which really pushed me away. It's just disappointing when you spent so much time/resources maxing out a character you enjoy only to have it becoming more & more obsolete. It was hard trying to find groups for endgame, even within our alliance which I honestly can't blame them. Why take a maxed out dps warlock when a lower level hunter or cw can do much more dps, quicker! I just started reading up on changes since but warlock seems to be in a worse state than before.

    It's just hard to justify (for myself) putting anymore time in this game which I used to enjoy.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,518 Arc User

    I took a hiatus in early September last year (I'm on console PS4), I just logged in last night since and was really suprised to see our alliance had 3 open spots! I've been with them for years and never seen such, chat was dead. I do have 5 characters but I'm a Warlock main :( which really pushed me away. It's just disappointing when you spent so much time/resources maxing out a character you enjoy only to have it becoming more & more obsolete. It was hard trying to find groups for endgame, even within our alliance which I honestly can't blame them. Why take a maxed out dps warlock when a lower level hunter or cw can do much more dps, quicker! I just started reading up on changes since but warlock seems to be in a worse state than before.

    It's just hard to justify (for myself) putting anymore time in this game which I used to enjoy.

    This. Pretty much spot on.

    Time [and money] spent on a toon that gets nerfed isn't fun.

    Same with companions, mounts, enchants, insignia, artifacts, equipment, the list goes on.

    I am certainly not spending anything on the game other than cheap VIP, as I don't trust whats going to happen with each new MOD.
  • dionchidionchi Member Posts: 904 Arc User
    I have absolutely no problem with Neverwinter changing the scaling, stats, powers or anything else when they come out with a new modification to the game... So long as those changes only apply to characters when they go into that new content, not before.

    Multiple times I've used cash or much time and effort to bring my characters up to where they can play proficiently in a particular area only to have those characters nerfed to the extent that they barely survive in areas where they used to navigate with little problem - why would I even consider spending even more time, effort or especially money knowing full well it's very likely to happen again, and again, ad infinitum?

    The game is still "fun" for me, I suppose because I consider each area I revisit an opportunity to better explore some of the great graphics or maybe learn to play that content a little more efficiently than I could previously, of course the problem is when I progress to a certain level and find my character having to go back to a lower level because my character's been nerfed or the opponents made tougher, it tends to be less "fun" because I figure the time, effort and money I invested the first, or second, or third time around was just wasted.

    The net result of course is I am less inclined to spend as much time, effort and money than I had previously, I guess that's why Neverwinter needs new players so desperately... because once a player find out how their investment(s) will be eventually devalued those players will probably be less willing to make future investments, unless they can be convinced they will actually be getting something worthwhile for their investment.

    ¢¢
    DD~
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 824 Arc User
    edited January 2020

    It's not fun anymore most toon's getting nerfed :( and we have to deal with it...it's getting to be like a competition now... and very technical not like a "GAME" just wish it went back (way b4 this) sad...to see when lots leave..b :(

    I think this is it for me. The game has devolved into one endless, persistent grind, whose sole purpose is to get better gear for the next grind. There's no story anymore - it's just a matter of mob management with the occasional boss fight, to add more widgets to get ready for new mobs in the next zone and the next boss fight.

    Short answer - it's just boring.

    Looking at the lackluster recent events and CTAs, the consistent brevity of the upcoming calendar of events - I get the sense the devs are bored with the game too.

    Or they are getting ready for the game to wind down permanently.

  • zyronaxzyronax Member Posts: 153 Arc User
    edited January 2020

    I had and have a ton of fun playing it.
    I used to play it on PS4 2-3 years ago.

    All the different systems and classes has been streamlined and made easier to manage its incredible, companions and mounts got so much better, especially companions are more accessible than ever i remember spending 3 kk AD for a owlbear on my Cleric.

    There were also a ton of changes to the classes themselves, three separate roles holy trinity has been brought back to the game, which is great since people are hungry for this kind of design.
    Min max Builds and classes has been nerfed and changed and are not so powerful as before, that means the gap between casuals and hardcore guys has been drastically decreased, which is the best thing this game ever got.

    People actually could go into the game and just enjoy it, it got easier to enjoy without spending hundreds of $$ into the game.
    The game came out to be so so much less pay2win to what it used to be before. The pay2win aspect was always a big concern to the mmorpg players and the game being so complicated and expensive it was called to be one of the biggest pay2win ever which drove people away from it. Quite literally people were making fun of this game on the forums, saying it is easier to start mars mission program on your own and land people on mars before NASA than making end game bis character in this game.
    Even i was investing heavily into the game with my own money when played it back then and end up spending around 400$ into it to get just enough stuff to enjoy end game content. It was a mistake, because lack of expertise brought me to buying and investing in wrong stuff and finally dropping the game completely disappointed. And there were hundreds if not thousands of people like me who uninstalled game because their investment has been done wrong and couldnt join the "end game gang" with such high skill and requirements floor.

    I guess sure, the amount of combinations you could have done with the game before was immense, large there were so many ways to play different classes, but it was not always the case, there were a meta builds to follow if you wanted to play this game properly. Devs had to design the game around those min-maxing builds otherwise it will be to easy and boring to play it, so they made half of the game playable and challenging for people who know how to play and have already years of gaming behind them, while completely ignoring the experience of a newbie who always found himself unable to play the damn game at max lvl.

    And thanks to whoever decided to scrap the entire game and rework it from the scratch, because this was the decision that finally made this game playable, tank you! Because i am playing a tank now and i like to play it more than i used to in FFXIV or WoW.


    Did it ever occur to you, in your self-righteous sense of entitlement, that in order to play "the damn game at max lvl," you might have to put in the time, effort, and resources that others did? Cause ya know, your tirade has more than just a whiff of sour grapes and envy. Any way, you can keep this version of the game, and should you ever actually put in the time and effort to reach end-game status remember this moment (with the all-but-inevitable change of attitude and experience that will bring). lol

    Turn off the lights when the doors close for the final time.

    P.S. Also, that spiel doesn't at all come across as a paid-for-drive-by "positive review, yay!" hit piece. B)
    Post edited by zyronax on
  • ericlatrelleericlatrelle Member Posts: 10 Arc User

    I had and have a ton of fun playing it.
    I used to play it on PS4 2-3 years ago.

    All the different systems and classes has been streamlined and made easier to manage its incredible, companions and mounts got so much better, especially companions are more accessible than ever i remember spending 3 kk AD for a owlbear on my Cleric.

    There were also a ton of changes to the classes themselves, three separate roles holy trinity has been brought back to the game, which is great since people are hungry for this kind of design.
    Min max Builds and classes has been nerfed and changed and are not so powerful as before, that means the gap between casuals and hardcore guys has been drastically decreased, which is the best thing this game ever got.

    People actually could go into the game and just enjoy it, it got easier to enjoy without spending hundreds of $$ into the game.
    The game came out to be so so much less pay2win to what it used to be before. The pay2win aspect was always a big concern to the mmorpg players and the game being so complicated and expensive it was called to be one of the biggest pay2win ever which drove people away from it. Quite literally people were making fun of this game on the forums, saying it is easier to start mars mission program on your own and land people on mars before NASA than making end game bis character in this game.
    Even i was investing heavily into the game with my own money when played it back then and end up spending around 400$ into it to get just enough stuff to enjoy end game content. It was a mistake, because lack of expertise brought me to buying and investing in wrong stuff and finally dropping the game completely disappointed. And there were hundreds if not thousands of people like me who uninstalled game because their investment has been done wrong and couldnt join the "end game gang" with such high skill and requirements floor.

    I guess sure, the amount of combinations you could have done with the game before was immense, large there were so many ways to play different classes, but it was not always the case, there were a meta builds to follow if you wanted to play this game properly. Devs had to design the game around those min-maxing builds otherwise it will be to easy and boring to play it, so they made half of the game playable and challenging for people who know how to play and have already years of gaming behind them, while completely ignoring the experience of a newbie who always found himself unable to play the damn game at max lvl.

    And thanks to whoever decided to scrap the entire game and rework it from the scratch, because this was the decision that finally made this game playable, tank you! Because i am playing a tank now and i like to play it more than i used to in FFXIV or WoW.


    Lol!!!!
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    @honghua#7152 I am happy to hear someone else is having fun.

    I agree the game is not as fun as it was before, but fun is where we make it. I like to have fun with people, and hope that people learned something along the way. I find that most players are like sheep in this game, I guess that make me the Judas goat. What Cryptic offers is not popular content, but simple entertainment to be consumed like Chinese food, forgotten, and replaced by a new dish. If a story is well written, it never truly ends, it stays with you forever, because life doesn’t have A Happily-Ever-After.

    Have fun! <3
    wb-cenders.gif
  • tchefi#6735 tchefi Member Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited January 2020


    Tell me what you want how you liked it before, the fact is this game was extremely hostile to anyone who just started to play it. Majority of people who ever tried to play it and i guarantee you there was a ton of them simply left the game for a reason, which the biggest one was how terribly pay2win it was back in days
    [...]
    You cant have a game which is gating the entire end game behind the thousands of dollar paywall and expect it to live for long

    I started to play in december 2016 in the middle of mod10.5. I didn't find the game more hostile than any other MMORPG i have tried (maybe ~30, starting with Ultima Online in 1997). Leveling phase, first campaigns (overall the first month) was super easy. First epic dungeon (and how i suffered in it) was the trigger for me to upgrade gradually from my casual playtime to my more "normal" hardcore behaviour.
    Maybe it's a matter of philosophy, and as a bit oldschool player I don't fit well with the current player general mentality which seems to consist in "consuming" the game as fast as possible starting day 1, being a bit individualistic (at least more than I experienced 25-15 years ago, so before the WoW generation/democratisation of the MMORPG), and expecting the game itself will feed them everything with a golden spoon (especially when they had spent some cash in it).

    Should a game adapt itself to this current general mentality ? A MMORPG need to be profitable so... from a business perspective, yes, unfortunately, unless you want a niche community.

    Personnally, I prefer searching by myself, trying and retrying, "working" to achieve my goals, helping to reach collective goals, rather than paying or being completely guided in everyway and have everything given and explained to me without even asking.

    I pay if I enjoy the f2p-game as for me it's normal to remunerate a studio for his good work. I had tossed 50€ in NWO in black-friday 2017 and jubilee 2018 (nothing in 2019, as I disliked mod16). Doesn't really changed anything for me when you know i had spent something like 60M AD (AH value) in giveaway ally events during the last 2 years while still maintaining 2 to 3 toons at endgame level.





    Neverwinter being a pay to win is probably true for anyone casual (who has less playtime than 1h/day in average) and want to get to the endgame.
    Question is : is a MMORPG really the kind of game for casual gaming ?
    Yes and no in my opinion.
    Yes, if you are already well installed and wealthy ingame, so you can play more casually (easier to maintain endgame level than catching up from 0)
    Yes if you are not aiming at endgame, doing "sub-endgame" activities (which can totally be enjoyable).
    No if you have just started the game 1 month ago and want to kill tomorrow the latest released dungeon.

    Everyone more "semi-casual" (2h/day in average), if able to plan his in-game economical strategy, can catch-up the endgame. I have plenty of guildies who had proved that (but maybe it's because they had enough social skill to speak to some of the oldest players and had enjoyed insightful advices ? Or they have been smart enough to figure things by themselves ?)
    Yep someone has to pay collectively speaking. Individually, with enough playtime, nothing is unreachable even if you want to keep playing for free.

    With somewhere around 4h/day, i had considered myself end-game something like 11 months after i started with my main (december 2016 to november 2017). It took me 2 more months to get my 2nd main toon up-to-date (or close enough). When CoDG was released (~14 months after i started the game), both toons were ok enough so they can easily be picked-up in PE/LFM.

    If you are in any MMORPG and start spending hundreds of $/€ in it each week, then you are a crazy big whale (which is fine, you pay for the smart freeplayers :P).
    If you freeplay and plan 1 year ahead, you will do and be fine 1 year later.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User


    Should a game adapt itself to this current general mentality ? A MMORPG need to be profitable so... from a business perspective, yes, unfortunately, unless you want a niche community.

    I wish someone would try to market a really hardcore game, and not the really casual fluffy stuff of most MMORPGs today.

    I still have fond memories of my first graphical MMORPG(after text-based dikus) - I was in eq1 beta.

    Barely any soloable content, and the challenge was merciless. One mess-up, and the group wiped, AND their gear was left on the corpses where they died. Holy trinity group roles was harshly enforced, if the mobs even looked at a glass cannon dps, he died. Only tanks could really take hits. You had to develop good tactics like camping in the dungeons and pulling mobs to camp to survive. If you got two groups of mobs in one pull, you were dead, unless you had an enchanter that could mez the mobs. The tank really had to know his pull techniques to avoid disasters.

    It was mass fun.

    The obvious conclusion today is that the masses with the money will not join such a challenging game. Which probably is correct. Too bad.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,822 Arc User


    If you freeplay and plan 1 year ahead, you will do and be fine 1 year later.

    That was the exact mind set I had when I started in mod 3 except I expected it would take 2 years.
    I started with building/setting up infrastructure to support the Adventurers in a sustainable way without paying.
    That was my initial challenge for playing this game. People said this is a free to play game. Is it real?
    My first challenge was to check if that is real. That has worked well so far.
    My current challenge is to do Masterwork without spending any AD. So far so good.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • tchefi#6735 tchefi Member Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited January 2020


    My current challenge is to do Masterwork without spending any AD. So far so good.

    Patience is the key to success ;). But patience is a virtue that is acquired only over patience, and nowdays most of the MMORPG players are in the impatient consumerism category (which is why the f2p economic model for games can be a sustainable and successful one, playing on, tickling the gamers impatience and envy nerve and even sometimes designing [on purpose or not] specific psychological traps for that)
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 671 Arc User
    Can we just... I do not know where to post this, I spent some minutes thinking about where to do it, but I guess it doesn't really matter. I am too old (not really, but let's count that as an excuse) for reddit, BUT I managed to read the AMA. I also saw @cwhitesidedev#9752 answers on @mrvincent1959 stream coverage, and I felt like I needed to response on the forum, as for
    1) I'm in a different time zone and everything you do over there on the other side of that big pond is a weird time for me
    2) We should (as we sometimes already admit between the outbursts and negativity, counting myself guilty here) also find a way to talk about what is positive on here.

    What was really positive for me lately was the increased activity of devs on the forums, for one, for a lot more transparency on what everybody is doing, what is being considered, what was noticed, read, checked, will be checked in the future. For sharing insight on how stuff is working on the preview sub (@noworries#8859 for example) and for generally making me personally feel more involved again. I do not know if others feel the same, but I hope so.
    We will never see the day where everybody is agreeing to everything, especially because players and devs are for sure seeing things differently, but while I have not always left my two cents on this forum I've been reading it for a while and to see this much communication in a time between mods is something else and really giving me hope.

    Thanks a lot for all the added effort (it is probably even more effort behind the scenes) in communication, I really appreciate it.
    (Anybody gonna talk to me about whiteknighting will be served to Orcus after I'm done)
    - bye bye -
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,822 Arc User


    (Anybody gonna talk to me about whiteknighting will be served to Orcus after I'm done)

    How about Greased Lightning? :)



    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
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