Hunter vs Warden

ashbury#6333
ashbury#6333 Member Posts: 66 Arc User
Just want to get others feedback on this...so I made a Hunter to shoot arrows with and I tried making a Warden for the same. However now I see why everyone runs melee Warden as it's set up for it. To have Warden be the most effective it's definitely in melee stance...or at the very least switching stances. Feats make it this way. The third feat is Storm Conduit vs Blade Hurricane. Blade hurricane is obviously for melee, any melee powers will do, you have your choice. However Storm Conduit can only be used with Split the Sky. That's the only lightning power. So if you want to run range this will be a waisted feat unless you have Split the sky Slotted and use it.

I also feel some of these powers should be overlapping between the two paths. Because they want us to run melee as a Warden they have given more survivability with Boar Hide and Oak Skin. As a Hunter and more single target dps it's set up better for PvP however I'd like some survivability....like with Boar and Oak Skin. Not to mention Binding Arrow is one of the hardest hitting range attacks a ranger has.
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Comments

  • jman3l#5579
    jman3l#5579 Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited November 2019
    Storm conduit also works with electric shot by the way. However I agree. The way they separated warden and hunter was terrible design. It rendered half of warden useless, one half very good (melee warden) and basically all of hunter terrible.
    Post edited by jman3l#5579 on
  • rubytrue
    rubytrue Member Posts: 565 Arc User

    Just want to get others feedback on this...so I made a Hunter to shoot arrows with and I tried making a Warden for the same. However now I see why everyone runs melee Warden as it's set up for it. To have Warden be the most effective it's definitely in melee stance...or at the very least switching stances. Feats make it this way. The third feat is Storm Conduit vs Blade Hurricane. Blade hurricane is obviously for melee, any melee powers will do, you have your choice. However Storm Conduit can only be used with Split the Sky. That's the only lightning power. So if you want to run range this will be a waisted feat unless you have Split the sky Slotted and use it.



    I also feel some of these powers should be overlapping between the two paths. Because they want us to run melee as a Warden they have given more survivability with Boar Hide and Oak Skin. As a Hunter and more single target dps it's set up better for PvP however I'd like some survivability....like with Boar and Oak Skin. Not to mention Binding Arrow is one of the hardest hitting range attacks a ranger has.

    Storm Conduit is actually really pretty incredibly awesome in the right build. Most people haven't discovered what an archer warden can do because they are defaulting to typical "meta" builds.
  • jman3l#5579
    jman3l#5579 Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    It can't compete with blade hurricane though. That's the problem. It can be both good/usable and worst than the alternative at the same time.
  • rubytrue
    rubytrue Member Posts: 565 Arc User

    It can't compete with blade hurricane though. That's the problem. It can be both good/usable and worst than the alternative at the same time.

    The short answer is, well, "no." Perhaps vs single target (read TOMM) Blade Hurricane is better (even then it is debatable for what you are giving up otherwise). But for 99% of the game's content, Storm Conduit absolutely buries Blade Hurricane.

    There are several things people are missing....

    Like I said, it isn't your typical meta build.

    I am a convert to the Warden Archer.
  • ashbury#6333
    ashbury#6333 Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    @rubytrue can you elaborate more on what people are missing? Or some on the build? Because I have tried builds with both melee and range Warden. And I have to agree with @jman3l#5579
    I have ran both through the same dungeon with the same group on several runs and it was no contest melee is way out performing range.
    What am I missing?
  • jules#6770
    jules#6770 Member Posts: 708 Arc User
    Please step down to the meta build users and explain then, because I spent some time trying out HAMSTER before I settled for the build I like the least (I only played trapper and archer before, never combat) for very obvious (in the millions) reasons.
    - bye bye -
  • jman3l#5579
    jman3l#5579 Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    I enjoy trapper much more, but I tested every feat configuration in both paths. Melee warden is by far the best. It's not even close. For single targets, nothing can compete with blade hurricane + storm strike/call of the storm. The at will damage is insane. For mobs, how is storm condiut/archer better? If you try to cast split the sky, a melee warden would have marauders rushed in already, done hindering strike,and everything is already dead =P. Those encounters are slow for trash and it would be horrendous for single target/TOMM.
  • rubytrue
    rubytrue Member Posts: 565 Arc User

    Please step down to the meta build users and explain then, because I spent some time trying out HAMSTER before I settled for the build I like the least (I only played trapper and archer before, never combat) for very obvious (in the millions) reasons.

    @rubytrue can you elaborate more on what people are missing? Or some on the build? Because I have tried builds with both melee and range Warden. And I have to agree with @jman3l#5579

    I have ran both through the same dungeon with the same group on several runs and it was no contest melee is way out performing range.

    What am I missing?

    I know this is going to sound like a cop out, but I'm pretty reluctant to share the specifics of my current build for three reasons: 1) First and foremost, it has been my experience that if you have a unique build and a lot of folks start using it because of how effective it is, then the devs ultimately wind up nerfing it. I'm having a lot of fun so I'm not overly interested in that prospect; 2) Even if I were to eventually share the build, I'm still tweaking it right now, testing a few things here and there so it really wouldn't be a "guide" per se; 3)if I do eventually release my build and people start to adopt it, I want to make sure I get something out of it. I know it is selfish, but there is no reason why other people should profit off the work I do. I like to play the AH, and if I don't corner the market on a couple different things, someone who didn't put in the effort to try something new, something risky will do it in my stead. That isn't exactly fair to me because I've made the investment both in AD and time on resources to try different things. jules is correct when he says "for very obvious (in the millions) reasons;" I'm in a similar boat.

    What is it that people are missing? Here is a clue: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xdiL-ADRTxQ

    If you understand the concepts in the video, you will understand why Storm Conduit is so powerful.
  • jman3l#5579
    jman3l#5579 Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    > @rubytrue said:
    > (Quote)
    > (Quote)
    > I know this is going to sound like a cop out, but I'm pretty reluctant to share the specifics of my current build for three reasons: 1) First and foremost, it has been my experience that if you have a unique build and a lot of folks start using it because of how effective it is, then the devs ultimately wind up nerfing it. I'm having a lot of fun so I'm not overly interested in that prospect; 2) Even if I were to eventually share the build, I'm still tweaking it right now, testing a few things here and there so it really wouldn't be a "guide" per se; 3)if I do eventually release my build and people start to adopt it, I want to make sure I get something out of it. I know it is selfish, but there is no reason why other people should profit off the work I do. I like to play the AH, and if I don't corner the market on a couple different things, someone who didn't put in the effort to try something new, something risky will do it in my stead. That isn't exactly fair to me because I've made the investment both in AD and time on resources to try different things. jules is correct when he says "for very obvious (in the millions) reasons;" I'm in a similar boat.
    >
    > What is it that people are missing? Here is a clue:
    >
    > If you understand the concepts in the video, you will understand why Storm Conduit is so powerful.

    You are right it's a huge copout lol. I'll show you my ACT runs if you show me yours. I tried a storm conduit build with a few iterations and it was hot trash compared to blade hurricane melee builds. And it's extremely selfish. I've posted all of my builds because I don't care. Player skill plays a huge factor. Someone could copy my build completely and I'll still crush them in TOMM.
  • rubytrue
    rubytrue Member Posts: 565 Arc User
    edited December 2019


    You are right it's a huge copout lol. I'll show you my ACT runs if you show me yours. I tried a storm conduit build with a few iterations and it was hot trash compared to blade hurricane melee builds. And it's extremely selfish. I've posted all of my builds because I don't care. Player skill plays a huge factor. Someone could copy my build completely and I'll still crush them in TOMM.

    You do realize that your posts are searchable, right?

    You say you've posted all your builds, but you've never posted a single build. You've been here six months with 44 comments. You've never posted a build.

    And given how long you've been here, there is *zero* chance that even if you did post a build, it wasn't original; at best, it would be derivative of some other build that someone else did.

    So don't cry me a river of tears for me being selfish.

    You're a fraud.

    I gave you everything you needed to know in that video.
  • gabrieldourden
    gabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    rubytrue said:


    You are right it's a huge copout lol. I'll show you my ACT runs if you show me yours. I tried a storm conduit build with a few iterations and it was hot trash compared to blade hurricane melee builds. And it's extremely selfish. I've posted all of my builds because I don't care. Player skill plays a huge factor. Someone could copy my build completely and I'll still crush them in TOMM.

    You do realize that your posts are searchable, right?

    You say you've posted all your builds, but you've never posted a single build. You've been here six months with 44 comments. You've never posted a build.

    And given how long you've been here, there is *zero* chance that even if you did post a build, it wasn't original; at best, it would be derivative of some other build that someone else did.

    So don't cry me a river of tears for me being selfish.

    You're a fraud.

    I gave you everything you needed to know in that video.
    Hello rubytrue. HR is my main since it came out in mod 1. I'm trying to find a decent build outside of the cookie cutter Warden melee build I'm using today. I used to play Archer and then Trapper and am really missing that kind of playstile.

    I did a few tries yesterday with an Archer Warden and Storm Conduit but results are pretty poor with my current gear. I guess a Lightning enchant could help if it adds the lightning keyword to powers, and possibly echo effects when fighting groups of mobs could boost damage, but single-target I fail to see how it could work and single-target is the meta at the moment.
    Do you have good results with your current build on single target too?

    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • rubytrue
    rubytrue Member Posts: 565 Arc User



    Hello rubytrue. HR is my main since it came out in mod 1. I'm trying to find a decent build outside of the cookie cutter Warden melee build I'm using today. I used to play Archer and then Trapper and am really missing that kind of playstile.

    I did a few tries yesterday with an Archer Warden and Storm Conduit but results are pretty poor with my current gear. I guess a Lightning enchant could help if it adds the lightning keyword to powers, and possibly echo effects when fighting groups of mobs could boost damage, but single-target I fail to see how it could work and single-target is the meta at the moment.
    Do you have good results with your current build on single target too?

    You're getting warmer. One thing to consider is that power (and/or crit strike severity) isn't the end-all/be-all in this game (but yes, you do want as much as you can get).

    I'm an old holdover from CoX, and when Cryptic implemented "Enhancement Diversification", players quickly learned that "leverage" is far more important than brute power. Same concept in concert with the video I shared goes here.

    Single target was where I was really struggling with this build, initially, and couldn't figure out how to make that really work effectively. I did some messing around and I think I found a solution to that problem, but it can be very expensive. Even if someone can't afford that solution, as an Archer Warden, you can still do decent damage, and at the very worst, significantly boost the damage for everyone else on your team. Of course, you can always switch loadouts and play a combat warden in single target, but that kind of defeats the purpose for those who want a different playstyle.
  • jman3l#5579
    jman3l#5579 Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    > @rubytrue said:
    > (Quote)
    > You do realize that your posts are searchable, right?
    >
    > You say you've posted all your builds, but you've never posted a single build. You've been here six months with 44 comments. You've never posted a build.
    >
    > And given how long you've been here, there is *zero* chance that even if you did post a build, it wasn't original; at best, it would be derivative of some other build that someone else did.
    >
    > So don't cry me a river of tears for me being selfish.
    >
    > You're a fraud.
    >
    > I gave you everything you needed to know in that video.

    Where in my post did I say I posted my builds on these forums? I have not done that. I'm much more active on discord with sharing information (ACT data, screenshots of my character screen, rotations etc.) In various discord channels. Perhaps you should learn more about people before making personal attacks yeah?
  • rubytrue
    rubytrue Member Posts: 565 Arc User


    Where in my post did I say I posted my builds on these forums? I have not done that. I'm much more active on discord with sharing information (ACT data, screenshots of my character screen, rotations etc.) In various discord channels. Perhaps you should learn more about people before making personal attacks yeah?

    Fair enough. There are other platforms to share information, my apologies for calling you a fraud; that was uncalled for.
  • jman3l#5579
    jman3l#5579 Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    No worries =]
  • rangerreek
    rangerreek Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    I once caught a great white shark with my bare hands. I thought about teaching people how to do it and what they needed in order to be successful, but eventually I realized it would be more beneficial to the overall shark hunting community if I kept my secrets to myself because then when all the shark hunters got eaten I alone would rule the sea...

    Without proof it just becomes bluster. Oh and HR came out in M2.
    Fight with honor, die with glory!
  • ashbury#6333
    ashbury#6333 Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    I cant wait for the next mod to drop. I really want to see how much faster we gain AP after rooting. Playing around with a ranged Hunter build in PvP lately and using snipe with a soul sight is pretty awesome...when it's able to be used. The AP gain is freaking slow. But man can that hit hard! With the right self buffs applied before using snipe I hit a dummy for over 500k! I then tried equipping an envenomed story teller instead of the soul sight and put on mount power for more AP gain after a daily. It's much better but still slow and of course the damage drops.
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    I changed > @rubytrue said:
    > (Quote)
    > (Quote)
    > I know this is going to sound like a cop out, but I'm pretty reluctant to share the specifics of my current build for three reasons: 1) First and foremost, it has been my experience that if you have a unique build and a lot of folks start using it because of how effective it is, then the devs ultimately wind up nerfing it. I'm having a lot of fun so I'm not overly interested in that prospect; 2) Even if I were to eventually share the build, I'm still tweaking it right now, testing a few things here and there so it really wouldn't be a "guide" per se; 3)if I do eventually release my build and people start to adopt it, I want to make sure I get something out of it. I know it is selfish, but there is no reason why other people should profit off the work I do. I like to play the AH, and if I don't corner the market on a couple different things, someone who didn't put in the effort to try something new, something risky will do it in my stead. That isn't exactly fair to me because I've made the investment both in AD and time on resources to try different things. jules is correct when he says "for very obvious (in the millions) reasons;" I'm in a similar boat.
    >
    > What is it that people are missing? Here is a clue:
    >
    > If you understand the concepts in the video, you will understand why Storm Conduit is so powerful.

    if your build is really that good why wouldn't you corner the market and then release your build? doesn't call of the storm also work with storm conduit? i play a melee build but have been of the camp of release all encounters at once so they regen faster. I switched out for storm conduit last night because of that. I haven't played with it much to see if it's " hot trash " though.
  • rubytrue
    rubytrue Member Posts: 565 Arc User

    I changed > @rubytrue said:

    > (Quote)

    > (Quote)

    > I know this is going to sound like a cop out, but I'm pretty reluctant to share the specifics of my current build for three reasons: 1) First and foremost, it has been my experience that if you have a unique build and a lot of folks start using it because of how effective it is, then the devs ultimately wind up nerfing it. I'm having a lot of fun so I'm not overly interested in that prospect; 2) Even if I were to eventually share the build, I'm still tweaking it right now, testing a few things here and there so it really wouldn't be a "guide" per se; 3)if I do eventually release my build and people start to adopt it, I want to make sure I get something out of it. I know it is selfish, but there is no reason why other people should profit off the work I do. I like to play the AH, and if I don't corner the market on a couple different things, someone who didn't put in the effort to try something new, something risky will do it in my stead. That isn't exactly fair to me because I've made the investment both in AD and time on resources to try different things. jules is correct when he says "for very obvious (in the millions) reasons;" I'm in a similar boat.

    >

    > What is it that people are missing? Here is a clue: image

    >

    > If you understand the concepts in the video, you will understand why Storm Conduit is so powerful.



    if your build is really that good why wouldn't you corner the market and then release your build? doesn't call of the storm also work with storm conduit? i play a melee build but have been of the camp of release all encounters at once so they regen faster. I switched out for storm conduit last night because of that. I haven't played with it much to see if it's " hot trash " though.

    I did a reassessment of why I didn't want to release my build. It really isn't about cornering a market. I already have enough; I have more things to sell than I can turnover and convert to Zen before the summer sale. The reality is that I just don't want it nerfed. I'm having a blast with it. Typo has come fairly close to what I am doing with some of his archer writeups/guides, so I will call that "good enough."

    You are correct. CotS works with Storm Conduit (and how).
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    so does all lightning damage stack and add up big or still better to stick with other things. like if you stacked lightening/thunder weap and armor, cots, electric shot/clear the ground/ blue dragon glyph (and black ice for second )/aranea (not sure about aranea because that has to replace a power comp and I'm just not sure which is better.

    does clear the ground trigger storm conduit? I'm not able to tell when this is triggered or not. I tried with electric shot and I don't see an obvious tell there either. without act I have no idea how to test something like this. I ran a lomm with randoms. 30 minute run where I died at the power burst final boss I was at 115. I almost never run lomm so not sure how to gage that. there was a tomm ready warlock and he out dps'd me by 10 mil so I'm thinking maybe it's not that great lol. but I also don't know lomm super well. and I'm thinking this build probably has a distinct timing and pattern that needs to roll with it to be most effective. like three at wills, cots, artifact not sure how much of the ten seconds that has already eaten but then 3 encounters. rinse and repeat. it also seems 50/50 whether or not I'll have aggro or the tank will have aggro so not sure if it's worth it to have seekers vengeance slotted.
  • tassedethe13
    tassedethe13 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User

    Hello rubytrue. HR is my main since it came out in mod 1.

    Do you mean mod 2 ? ^^
  • gabrieldourden
    gabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User

    Hello rubytrue. HR is my main since it came out in mod 1.

    Do you mean mod 2 ? ^^
    Yup, mod 2, my mistake.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • ashbury#6333
    ashbury#6333 Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    I guess I need to come up with a lightning enchantment to see what's up with Warden archer then for mobs then. I tried warden range builds and they were all weak. But, they were all without a lightning enchant
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    just looking at the logs going by as we don't have act it seems like in aoe situations that thunderhead 14 does more damage than a tenebrous enchant. it's proccing repeatedly and doing 6000 a hit to whoever is there. for tomm obvs this build is bad. but for doing regular stuff imo at least with a lightning build it seems like thunderhead isn't bad.
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited January 2020
    the last few days I've been playing around with a lot of things over all what I've found is that playing a kind of hybrid trapper with the standard melee load out/feats (but I've switched out boar for constricting steel breeze) seems to work pretty well. (note I've kept storms recovery and focused instead of switching them for the standard trapper feats)

    I was doing really well for a few days topping most content played (which I don't normally do. normally second or third and against other similarly equipped rangers) with thunder and lightning enchants and switching out conduit for blade hurricane. but I don't think that was really doing anything. tried taking off and on music box. music box cut dps by about 10 percent.

    today I went into tuern and tried different things seeing what time stamp I was at thru various check points. and the fastest and the most damage was this hybrid of keeping focused, storms recovery and flurry and doing a couple at wills and cots and then fireing off all encounters then switch. occasionally I'll stay on one side longer than the other depending on how the encounters are popping up. if it's a second off I'll fire a few at wills to keep the damage buff then switch. so I think while I'm not getting the full 25% all the time the various encounters going off faster instead of at wills makes up for it.

    tested it today in a Lomm. (I know paingiver is hamster but it's what we have on console atm) there was a very similarly geared ranger but playing it normally and he did have music box. if he'd had managed to keep his stats and wear orcus might have been a different story but it was a 27 min run and I did 116 mil he did 110 mil. gonna take some more playing with. maybe I'll run it again with music box and see how i do in comparison. but I don't think that's bad.. I think maybe with a rotation that is a little more solid and thought out than i'm doing and maybe some different gear here and there it might not be bad at all. especially since I still don't know lomm that well and had a hard time keeping up at a few points. for some reason last few runs I cannot seem to get my bit fat db butt to fly up to that next level in a timely manner lol. I also noticed that when doing a fast trapper type rotation my mighty weapons seem to be keeping up stacks a lot better than they were before.
  • pjgg78#8316
    pjgg78#8316 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    > @mikewho#5331 said:
    > And Storm conduit isn’t bad, it’s just procd by electric shot /clear the ground and that’s probably and unfortunately a wardens weakest are will.

    Electric Shot's last shot marks the primary target for Storm Conduit, after that if you're using a Lightning Enchantment every weapon power will work with Storm Conduit, and on top of that also Call of the Storm+Lightning Enchanted Weapons, Split the Sky and Clear the Ground, that are lightning based powers by themselves, also work with Storm Conduit.

    I'm not the kind of player that blindly follows the meta builds without trying or experimenting other possibilities, specially on the Ranger were the widely established meta is, or was in the previous Mod, a full melee blades build when we have Rogues to do that...

    So i've been experimenting with a Warden archer built around Storm Conduit and based off the very limited details rubytrue released here in the forums about his build, but my build is surely far from being optimized like his. Still i have been able to pull some very impressive damage numbers when dealing with groups of mobs so i'm not surprised that he claims that it can be superior to the almighty melee Warden because it might actually be.
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